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Who was a more effective player?

Darius Songaila or Michael Ruffin?

(If this catches on we can do this til the preseason starts and there's something worthwhile to discuss besides vitriol toward Ernie Grunfeld).

Feel free to compare any other two Wizards, preferably from the same era.

CCJ, just for you:

Stackhouse or Hughes?


Good times, good times....



(and I was always kind of a Songalia fan even though I knew he was limited and overpaid, to say the least. But if you take the salary out of the equation, I'd have to pick Darius in your comparison above.)

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Who was a more effective player?

Darius Songaila or Michael Ruffin?

(If this catches on we can do this til the preseason starts and there's something worthwhile to discuss besides vitriol toward Ernie Grunfeld).

I liked Ruffin more. On a scale of 1-10, Ruffin was a 6 on defense and a 1 on offense. Songaila was a 5 on offense and a 2 on defense. So they were about the same. The difference is that, at least in that era, you could hide one terrible offensive player by assigning him to set picks and crash the offensive glass. There was no way to hide Songaila's terrible defense.

Severn Hoos wrote:CCJ, just for you:

Stackhouse or Hughes?


Good times, good times....



(and I was always kind of a Songalia fan even though I knew he was limited and overpaid, to say the least. But if you take the salary out of the equation, I'd have to pick Darius in your comparison above.)

Stackhouse.

Jerry actually played down to MJ. Larry Hughes nearly made the all star game once. He took too many one vs three shots.

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Severn Hoos wrote:CCJ, just for you:

Stackhouse or Hughes?


Good times, good times....



(and I was always kind of a Songalia fan even though I knew he was limited and overpaid, to say the least. But if you take the salary out of the equation, I'd have to pick Darius in your comparison above.)

Hughes by a lot. Stackhouse was one of the most overrated players of his era. We was a chucker and a terrible shooter, a bad combination. He was also a mediocre defender. At his peak, he could compensate for his awful shooting by getting to the FT line, but by the time he joined the Wizards, he was no longer elite at getting to the line.

Hughes was at least an excellent defender, ball handler and rebounder. Like Stackhouse, he was also a poor shooter, but he managed to have a fluky good shooting year in one of his 3 years in DC. And in his other 2 years, he at least had the good sense to not shoot the ball every time he touched it.

Who's a good comp for Jeff Malone?

The Widow's Peak peak season, arguably, was '89-'90: 25.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.4 apg on 49.2%FG. His ORtg hovered between 107 and 110 while in DC (Wall has peaked at 106). His DRtg, however, ranged from 109-114.

He's better than Beal, L-Boogie, or Stack. He's better than the DC version of Richmond. Any comps?

keynote wrote:Who's a good comp for Jeff Malone?

The Widow's Peak peak season, arguably, was '89-'90: 25.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.4 apg on 49.2%FG. His ORtg hovered between 107 and 110 while in DC (Wall has peaked at 106). His DRtg, however, ranged from 109-114.

He's better than Beal, L-Boogie, or Stack. He's better than the DC version of Richmond. Any comps?

Rip Hamilton?

http://bkref.com/tiny/7ayBY

nate33 wrote:

keynote wrote:Who's a good comp for Jeff Malone?

The Widow's Peak peak season, arguably, was '89-'90: 25.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.4 apg on 49.2%FG. His ORtg hovered between 107 and 110 while in DC (Wall has peaked at 106). His DRtg, however, ranged from 109-114.

He's better than Beal, L-Boogie, or Stack. He's better than the DC version of Richmond. Any comps?

Rip Hamilton?

http://bkref.com/tiny/7ayBY

A decent comp. Malone was better, though. Higher usage and higher FG% and EFG%. Neither guard passed or rebounded well; neither guard shot 3s often (Rip improved his range in DET and took more later in his career).

Now, if you include Rip's tenure in DET, then Rip probably gets the nod due to his exploits in the playoffs and his ring.

keynote wrote:

nate33 wrote:

keynote wrote:Who's a good comp for Jeff Malone?

The Widow's Peak peak season, arguably, was '89-'90: 25.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.4 apg on 49.2%FG. His ORtg hovered between 107 and 110 while in DC (Wall has peaked at 106). His DRtg, however, ranged from 109-114.

He's better than Beal, L-Boogie, or Stack. He's better than the DC version of Richmond. Any comps?

Rip Hamilton?

http://bkref.com/tiny/7ayBY

A decent comp. Malone was better, though. Higher usage and higher FG% and EFG%. Neither guard passed or rebounded well; neither guard shot 3s often (Rip improved his range in DET and took more later in his career).

Now, if you include Rip's tenure in DET, then Rip probably gets the nod due to his exploits in the playoffs and his ring.

Maybe Phil Chenier is a better comp, longer tenure with Bullets. That's a tough one, Malone took and made more shots but Chenier the better all around player. I'd probably go with Chenier.

close, but Songaila over Ruffin and Hughes over Stackhouse

How about Dandridge vs. Bernard King, both with four-year stints in DC, both with one all star appearance. I think I'd go with Dandridge as the better all around player, but that one's kind of close too. King made a pretty amazing comeback while with the Wizards

Jan Vesely vs Calvin Booth

AFM wrote:Jan Vesely vs Calvin Booth

Calvin Booth, without question.

Off the court?

Glen Rice vs. Gilbert Arenas vs. Javaris Crittendon

nate33 wrote:

AFM wrote:Jan Vesely vs Calvin Booth

Calvin Booth, without question.

I was at a game where Booth had the ball outside the 3 point line, up top, with the clock running out. The defense let him have it and he had this "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night" look as he squared up and launched a not very perfect shot for three points. One of only two he made in his career (both with the Wizards, against the Rockets).

They lost the game, but it was also memorable because (if my memory isn't totally failing) Etan blocked Yao twice.

I'm with Booth, but he might have looked much worse if he was a top pick being force fed minutes.

Speaking of Etan, how about Etan vs. Jahidi. Close, but I think I go with Etan.

montestewart wrote:

nate33 wrote:

AFM wrote:Jan Vesely vs Calvin Booth

Calvin Booth, without question.

I was at a game where Booth had the ball outside the 3 point line, up top, with the clock running out. The defense let him have it and he had this "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night" look as he squared up and launched a not very perfect shot for three points. One of only two he made in his career (both with the Wizards, against the Rockets).

They lost the game, but it was also memorable because (if my memory isn't totally failing) Etan blocked Yao twice.

I'm with Booth, but he might have looked much worse if he was a top pick being force fed minutes.

Speaking of Etan, how about Etan vs. Jahidi. Close, but I think I go with Etan.

I have an irrational hatred of Etan, so I'm probably not the guy to give an unbiased opinion. Nothing made me angrier than his patented "flex-and-glare" defense.

Here's a comparison of the two players. Statistically, they were remarkably similar:
http://bkref.com/tiny/r4pod

I'd go with Jahidi because he put up his stats against starters and he was genuinely intimidating.

nate33 wrote:

montestewart wrote:

nate33 wrote:Calvin Booth, without question.

I was at a game where Booth had the ball outside the 3 point line, up top, with the clock running out. The defense let him have it and he had this "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night" look as he squared up and launched a not very perfect shot for three points. One of only two he made in his career (both with the Wizards, against the Rockets).

They lost the game, but it was also memorable because (if my memory isn't totally failing) Etan blocked Yao twice.

I'm with Booth, but he might have looked much worse if he was a top pick being force fed minutes.

Speaking of Etan, how about Etan vs. Jahidi. Close, but I think I go with Etan.

I have an irrational hatred of Etan, so I'm probably not the guy to give an unbiased opinion. Nothing made me angrier than his patented "flex-and-glare" defense.

Here's a comparison of the two players. Statistically, they were remarkably similar:
http://bkref.com/tiny/r4pod

I'd go with Jahidi because he put up his stats against starters and he was genuinely intimidating.

Good points. I probably give undue weight to his 2 blocks on Yao Ming in one game and his one 20 point playoff game.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

Severn Hoos wrote:CCJ, just for you:

Stackhouse or Hughes?


Good times, good times....



(and I was always kind of a Songalia fan even though I knew he was limited and overpaid, to say the least. But if you take the salary out of the equation, I'd have to pick Darius in your comparison above.)

Stackhouse.

Jerry actually played down to MJ. Larry Hughes nearly made the all star game once. He took too many one vs three shots.

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

Tough call, Ruffin was a good rebounder, but I liked Songaila's skill and passing. What about Ruffin vs Popeye Jones??

Hughes was one of my favorite players, very good at the point during MJ's stint, perfect compliment to Gil once he came. Still drives me crazy wondering what they could have done had they kept him AND made the Kwame for Caron trade. Gil, Hughes, Caron, Antawn...

Hmmm

Juwan vs Jamison vs Googs
Courtney Alexander vs Laron Profit
Rip Hamilton vs Rex Chapman
Wall vs Arenas
Brent Price vs Chris Witney
Ben Wallace vs Pervis Ellison
Caron Butler vs John Williams
Calbert Chaney vs Don MacLean
Ledell Eackles vs Juan Dixon
MJ vs King
Pack vs Lue
Tim Legler vs Tracy Murray
Mureasan vs Ruland
Harvey Grant vs Laettner

Elvin Hayes vs Chris Webber
Rod Strickland vs John Wall
Mitch Richmond vs Brad Beal

Eddie Jordan vs. Randy Wittman.

Moses Malone vs. Jeff Ruland

Manute Bol vs. Gheorghe Muresan

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

Severn Hoos wrote:CCJ, just for you:

Stackhouse or Hughes?


Good times, good times....



(and I was always kind of a Songalia fan even though I knew he was limited and overpaid, to say the least. But if you take the salary out of the equation, I'd have to pick Darius in your comparison above.)

Stackhouse.

Jerry actually played down to MJ. Larry Hughes nearly made the all star game once. He took too many one vs three shots.

Sent from my LG-H345 using RealGM mobile app

Tough call, Ruffin was a good rebounder, but I liked Songaila's skill and passing. What about Ruffin vs Popeye Jones??

Hughes was one of my favorite players, very good at the point during MJ's stint, perfect compliment to Gil once he came. Still drives me crazy wondering what they could have done had they kept him AND made the Kwame for Caron trade. Gil, Hughes, Caron, Antawn...

Hmmm

Juwan vs Jamison vs Googs
Courtney Alexander vs Laron Profit
Rip Hamilton vs Rex Chapman
Wall vs Arenas
Brent Price vs Chris Witney
Ben Wallace vs Pervis Ellison
Caron Butler vs John Williams
Calbert Chaney vs Don MacLean
Ledell Eackles vs Juan Dixon
MJ vs King
Pack vs Lue
Tim Legler vs Tracy Murray
Mureasan vs Ruland
Harvey Grant vs Laettner

1. Juwan vs Jamison vs Googs?

Jamison<Juwan<Googs

Howard's All Star season, however, was probably the best individual season. Jamison once torched Lebron's Cavs for 30 a game during a playoff series. Antawn put in great work for the Wizards. ON TOP OF THAT ... I've spoken with him a few times when he came to Pet Newells. Dude is genuine, down-to-earth, and friendly. Googs was good but I think he was better after being traded for Webber.


2. Courtney Alexander vs Laron Profit

Tough one. I will go with Profit because he's a Realgm cult hero. Courtney scored well until MJ came out of retirement and bumped him. Profit lasted a few seasons IIRC. More of a utility guy but he fit a role.


Rip Hamilton vs Rex Chapman

Not close. Rip. Rip. A million times Rip. Rex was physically quicker and a better leaper; but Rip was good even before the Wizards very foolishly traded him for Jerry Stackhouse. Some of my early rant posts were on just how bad of a trade I knew that would turn out to be.


Wall vs Arenas

Not even close.

Brent Price vs Chris Witney

Chris Whitney was a glue guy for several season. Brent cashed out for a better deal after one decent season.


Ben Wallace vs Pervis Ellison

The Bullet's coach was too dumb to play Ben Wallace. Juwan and C Webb being on the team still shouldn't have precluded playing Ben. I voted Pervis, because he put up something like 19/10 one season IIRC. Ellison would thrive in today's small ball era.

Caron Butler vs John Williams

Really. Come on, man. Okay, Hot Plate had a LOT of talent. Caron made the most of his talent.

Calbert Chaney vs Don MacLean

I'm a fan of MacLean. I MIGHT have had something to do with his trade unless the Pack deal was just coincidentally something I suggested on AOL right before it happened. (Three things I might have had a little to do with: Almond a Wizard. Jahidi/Brevin Knight trade. Pack/MacLean trade). I say Calbert was a pretty decent player--just about as good IMO as Beal is now.


Ledell Eackles vs Juan Dixon

I vote Ledell because he was a fat guy, like me. Juan did have the 30-point playoff game. Really close.


MJ vs King

Best one yet, SUPER! Thanks for playing. I dunno. Both were very inspirational comeback stories. MJ made the Wizards relevant and profitable. King played pretty well, as did MJ. Toss up.


Pack vs Lue

Pack was exciting and darned good. I don't remember Lue's impact. Robert Pack.


Tim Legler vs Tracy Murray

Murray was a gunner. Legler only starred during the 3--Point shootout during all star weekends.


Mureasan vs Ruland

Tricky one. When Big Gheorghe was healthy, he was a BEAST. Unfortunately for him, he was rarely healthy. Ruland was oft-injured, too; but I know he made at least one all star appearance for the Bullets. Ruland was good enough to be traded for Moses Malone. Gotta go Ruland here.


Harvey Grant vs Laettner

Tough call. I like Laettner a little bit more as a player than Harvey Grant. Christian would thrive as well in the small ball C era.

SUPERBALLMAN, Thanks for playing along!

I'm glad this thread caught on.