RealGM

We had about 6 real years of Gilbert Arenas and we've had 6 years of John Wall. Both players led the team to the 2nd round, both players have been the best player on the team while being the point guard.

In some fantasy draft world where we assume Gilbert stays healthy, who do you take on the team long term?

Gilbert Arenas, no question.

I would roll the dice with a healthy Gilbert.

To his credit, John is showing signs that he possibly has another level to reach in his game that would get him closer to the prime Arenas level.. but then again Gil was only 24yo when he averaged ~30ppg, there's a good chance he had another level to reach too - of course we'll never know.

Even if he never got much better, what Arenas was doing at his peak would be insanely valuable in today's league. He'd be one of those superstars where the max contract system is actually lowballing them and doesn't compensate them enough for their true value.

I think you guys are forgetting his near last year harden level defense

i would take J. Wall. Arenas was a man show that never made his team mates better. He was a poor defender. Obviously gilbert is light years better than Bradley Beal though. J. WAll actually makes his team mates better. He is a 100 times better leader. J. Wall is the type of guy that you don't want to let down. Arenas couldn't hold anyone on his team accountable. Arenas was a volume scorer but if the refs didn't call the foul, he was pretty limited.
J Wall can draw in a defense, score, and find an open team mate for a easy shot even if the ref isn't blowing the whistle. Teams would ruff arenas up, refs wouldn't make the call, and we would lose. J. Wall can get the basket, not as explosively as areanas, but he is much better at getting his ball to his mates. Arenas would Jack a three up 2 seconds into the shot clock 15 times a game and then expect his team to hustle back and play high level defense. YOu don't let others on team at least touch the ball, they aren't going to hustle on defense.
Arenas was also very ruthless with his body and his knees. He was always landing hard on his knees and never took steps to land using his quads to absorb the force from his lands would often absorb all of force directly into his knees.
Bradley Beal vs Larry Hughes.
I think if Beal can stop abusing his knees and start using his quads to absorb force. Leaning back when he lands on his jumpers instead of directly landing on his knees, he has a chance to have a better career than hughes.

Obviously John. His legs are more bowed.

Arenas wasn't a bad man defender, he was just terrible in help defense - an issue that isn't insurmountable in a PG. Frankly, I'm not so sure Wall is much better defensively, except for his ability to block shots from the weak side.

The main reason I'd take Arenas over Wall is their DRAMATIC difference in isolation scoring ability. Arenas is a closer. We won so many games because we were able to win the last minute of the 4th quarter. Wall is dreadful at crunch time scoring because his go-to move is a fading mid-range jumper that he hits 30% of the time. I want to stick my boot through the TV whenever I see Wall dribbling down the shot clock in preparation for an isolation move.

I'd love to see Arenas with the current personnel on this team, except with a more defensive-minded PF like Amir Johnson/Taj Gibson in place of Markieff Morris. Arenas was always surrounded by terrible defenders except when Haywood was on the floor.

Love Wall, but Arenas was on another level. One of the most lethal scorers in his prime and no slouch distributing the ball.

What both have in common however, much like with Wall, Grunfeld failed to maximize Arenas talent by assembling a roster that suited his strengths.

ozthegap wrote:I think you guys are forgetting his near last year harden level defense

Arenas was a damn good defender with the Warriors, much like Harden was with the Thunder.

nate33 wrote:Arenas wasn't a bad man defender, he was just terrible in help defense - an issue that isn't insurmountable in a PG. Frankly, I'm not so sure Wall is much better defensively, except for his ability to block shots from the weak side.

The main reason I'd take Arenas over Wall is their DRAMATIC difference in isolation scoring ability. Arenas is a closer. We won so many games because we were able to win the last minute of the 4th quarter. Wall is dreadful at crunch time scoring because his go-to move is a fading mid-range jumper that he hits 30% of the time. I want to stick my boot through the TV whenever I see Wall dribbling down the shot clock in preparation for an isolation move.

I'd love to see Arenas with the current personnel on this team, except with a more defensive-minded PF like Amir Johnson/Taj Gibson in place of Markieff Morris. Arenas was always surrounded by terrible defenders except when Haywood was on the floor.

I would also take Arenas over Wall although I would say Arenas had some solid defenders around him at times (Kwame Brown, Hughes, Jeffries, Stevenson, Daniels)- they couldn't make up for Arenas and Jamison, who IMO was a worse defender than Arenas.

This is basically todays Wall vs Kyrie debate. It's a matter of preference, because their overall impact is about the same, even though they're completely different point guards. And it depends on what the rest of the team looks like.

Jimmy Recard wrote:This is basically todays Wall vs Kyrie debate. It's a matter of preference, because their overall impact is about the same, even though they're completely different point guards. And it depends on what the rest of the team looks like.

I disagree, Kyrie wasn't on Arenas' level.


Love John, but Arenas hands down, no hesitation. If we had a competent GM during the Arenas years, we could have gone far. I went into every Wizard game excited to see what Gil would do, and we were an average team at best. That was exciting basketball. That was an exciting team. I don't go into any game excited to see what John does. I more hope he's not on his period and maybe can have a decent shooting night.

Man... who doesn't remember the "Revenge Tour?"

I memba

Give me John Wall. Arenas had better players around him (2 all-stars), Wall has had ZERO and more playoff success.

Hard to gauge
arenas was a weapon.....
Wall is a mechanic...

Wall can literally turn almost any player to a capable scorer based on they potential...
Arenas can literally turn any play to a score by himself

What's crazy is wall would be the better player in arenas era...
Arenas would be the better player in this era

Agent zero. But I think Wall is going to end his career as a better player. Both have been my favourite Wizards all time.

I'd definitely take Wall.

Arenas was very iso heavy at times. He was also very streaky at times and would have a lot of cold streaks throughout games, as such his FG% proves this. He could deadly at times, but he also could shoot the team out of the game as well. He really only had 1 great season.

Wall I feel impacts the game in other aspects. He'll never be the scorer Arenas was, but through his generalship, passing, defense, etc he impacts the game at a greater level. Without Wall we never would have made the 2nd round those years. Our team was built around him. Even without Arenas the 2007-2008 Wizards still made the playoffs with an emergence of Caron Butler.

SizzlinSimms wrote:I'd definitely take Wall.

Arenas was very iso heavy at times. He was also very streaky at times and would have a lot of cold streaks throughout games, as such his FG% proves this. He could deadly at times, but he also could shoot the team out of the game as well. He really only had 1 great season.

Wall I feel impacts the game in other aspects. He'll never be the scorer Arenas was, but through his generalship, passing, defense, etc he impacts the game at a greater level. Without Wall we never would have made the 2nd round those years. Our team was built around him. Even without Arenas the 2007-2008 Wizards still made the playoffs with an emergence of Caron Butler.

I do agree that Wall is a better defender. But another reality is that John Wall also takes almost as many shots as Arenas on a per 36 minutes basis and is a less efficient scorer.

FG% doesn't prove much because it does not take into account 3 pointers. Effective field goal percentage (takes 2 pointers and 3 pointers into account) or TS% (which takes in 3 pointers as well as free throws). At the end of the day, the Wizards were a better offensive team with Arenas.

Yes, the Wizards made the playoffs in 2008 but likely would have been a finals contender had they had a healthy Arenas. That 2008 team lost to the Cavs who ended up making the finals.

Meliorus wrote:Give me John Wall. Arenas had better players around him (2 all-stars), Wall has had ZERO and more playoff success.

I would not fall into the narrative that just because the Wizards made it to the 2nd round twice means that they had a better team. In all likelihood, the 2014 and 2015 Wizards would have lost to the Cavs in the first round in 2006, especially given the way that series was officiated. Also Butler played with a broken hand in 2006, and Arenas and Butler both missed the end of the 2007 season.

nate33 wrote:Gilbert Arenas, no question.

/thread

Close but Gil.