RealGM

.

Following a fun, come from behind win vs the Milwaukee Bucks, YOUR Washington Wizards turn their attention to the visiting Indiana Pacers.

Discuss here!





Wiz will win -- WOO!!




Go Wizards!

Big game... With the Twolves, Nets, Rockets, and Mavs following this one, we could be 18-17 with a win tomorrow.
The Pacers are tied with us and the Bucks, Bulls and Hawks are all 0.5 games ahead of us. We could very well be in the 8th, or possibly 7th seed after the next 5 games.

pcbothwel wrote:Big game... With the Twolves, Nets, Rockets, and Mavs following this one, we could be 18-17 with a win tomorrow.
The Pacers are tied with us and the Bucks, Bulls and Hawks are all 0.5 games ahead of us. We could very well be in the 8th, or possibly 7th seed after the next 5 games.

Plus, do you realize that only 3 teams in the East have better home records than the Wizards -- that proves how good we are.

Plus, do you realize that only 2 teams in the East have worse road records than the Wizards -- that proves that we're due for a change.

Plus, do you realize that if everything breaks right in our next 5 games, we could actually be tied for 3d in the East? Well. Do you?

payitforward wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:Big game... With the Twolves, Nets, Rockets, and Mavs following this one, we could be 18-17 with a win tomorrow.
The Pacers are tied with us and the Bucks, Bulls and Hawks are all 0.5 games ahead of us. We could very well be in the 8th, or possibly 7th seed after the next 5 games.

Plus, do you realize that only 3 teams in the East have better home records than the Wizards -- that proves how good we are.

Plus, do you realize that only 2 teams in the East have worse road records than the Wizards -- that proves that we're due for a change.

Plus, do you realize that if everything breaks right in our next 5 games, we could actually be tied for 3d in the East? Well. Do you?

If wishes were kisses, then snitches end up in ditches. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, one bad apple don't spoil the batch. A penny saved is a penny earned, play with fire and you'll get burned. Chin up, but watch your step.

Go Wiz!

payitforward wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:Big game... With the Twolves, Nets, Rockets, and Mavs following this one, we could be 18-17 with a win tomorrow.
The Pacers are tied with us and the Bucks, Bulls and Hawks are all 0.5 games ahead of us. We could very well be in the 8th, or possibly 7th seed after the next 5 games.

Plus, do you realize that only 3 teams in the East have better home records than the Wizards -- that proves how good we are.

Plus, do you realize that only 2 teams in the East have worse road records than the Wizards -- that proves that we're due for a change.

Plus, do you realize that if everything breaks right in our next 5 games, we could actually be tied for 3d in the East? Well. Do you?

Look chief, I understand that hands, millie, and EG have worn on some of you guys and you get defensive about anything positive because you think someone is defending Ted/EG, but calm down. EG blew all of our cap space and he should be fired. Ted doesnt have the hunger/fire that owners of our other teams (Dan Snyder) have in regards to winning.

With that said, the Cavs and Raptors are the only teams that look like that would clearly beat us in a series.

I think we should be happy in that we previously thought there were only two paths:
1) Our team plays well enough to make the playoffs, but none of our young core appear to show AS potential outside of Wall and even he is not top 5 at his position. Mahinmi, Sato, and Nicholson are good enough that we win 43 games on pure depth, but our ceiling is low... EG stays, life sucks

2) None of our young core make the leap and even some regress. Our bench is mediocre at best, but our starters just cant hang and we win 30 games. EG is fired..yayyyy... but we are still garbage and have Beal's anchor contract and a pissed of Wall.

But now a 3rd avenue has presented itself... Our young players all takes steps to being top 5-7 players at their position, but our entire bench is terrible despite all the money spent. People are happy with our young players, but the failure of the bench still makes us just above average and fans dont show up. Revenue drops and Grunfeld has spent all money on aging, injured vets (Mahinmi) or crap journeyman (Nicholson/Smith).

This is the best outcome as we still have a good core/future, but Ted has a legit reason to remove EG.

I have said for a while that Brooks has his flaws in the X's/O's and his questionable rotation, but the two things he brought were the two things we NEED. 1) He has groomed young players and knows the importance of teaching skills to allow these young players to grow... and 2) He comes from a Great organization and is well-respected, so when he tells Ted at years end that our college scouting, pro scouting, and player development are all subpar, then Ted might finally listen.

pcbothwel wrote:

payitforward wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:Big game... With the Twolves, Nets, Rockets, and Mavs following this one, we could be 18-17 with a win tomorrow.
The Pacers are tied with us and the Bucks, Bulls and Hawks are all 0.5 games ahead of us. We could very well be in the 8th, or possibly 7th seed after the next 5 games.

Plus, do you realize that only 3 teams in the East have better home records than the Wizards -- that proves how good we are.

Plus, do you realize that only 2 teams in the East have worse road records than the Wizards -- that proves that we're due for a change.

Plus, do you realize that if everything breaks right in our next 5 games, we could actually be tied for 3d in the East? Well. Do you?

Look chief, I understand that hands, millie, and EG have worn on some of you guys and you get defensive about anything positive because you think someone is defending Ted/EG, but calm down. EG blew all of our cap space and he should be fired. Ted doesnt have the hunger/fire that owners of our other teams (Dan Snyder) have in regards to winning.

With that said, the Cavs and Raptors are the only teams that look like that would clearly beat us in a series.

I think we should be happy in that we previously thought there were only two paths:
1) Our team plays well enough to make the playoffs, but none of our young core appear to show AS potential outside of Wall and even he is not top 5 at his position. Mahinmi, Sato, and Nicholson are good enough that we win 43 games on pure depth, but our ceiling is low... EG stays, life sucks

2) None of our young core make the leap and even some regress. Our bench is mediocre at best, but our starters just cant hang and we win 30 games. EG is fired..yayyyy... but we are still garbage and have Beal's anchor contract and a pissed of Wall.

But now a 3rd avenue has presented itself... Our young players all takes steps to being top 5-7 players at their position, but our entire bench is terrible despite all the money spent. People are happy with our young players, but the failure of the bench still makes us just above average and fans dont show up. Revenue drops and Grunfeld has spent all money on aging, injured vets (Mahinmi) or crap journeyman (Nicholson/Smith).

This is the best outcome as we still have a good core/future, but Ted has a legit reason to remove EG.

I have said for a while that Brooks has his flaws in the X's/O's and his questionable rotation, but the two things he brought were the two things we NEED. 1) He has groomed young players and knows the importance of teaching skills to allow these young players to grow... and 2) He comes from a Great organization and is well-respected, so when he tells Ted at years end that our college scouting, pro scouting, and player development are all subpar, then Ted might finally listen.

I like your spin on things. I also like PIF as chief, but it should be capitalized.

montestewart wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:[
Look chief...

I like your spin on things. I also like PIF as chief, but it should be capitalized.

As in Big Chief or Head Honcho or Number One... feel free to use any of those

pcbothwel wrote:

payitforward wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:Big game... With the Twolves, Nets, Rockets, and Mavs following this one, we could be 18-17 with a win tomorrow.
The Pacers are tied with us and the Bucks, Bulls and Hawks are all 0.5 games ahead of us. We could very well be in the 8th, or possibly 7th seed after the next 5 games.

Plus, do you realize that only 3 teams in the East have better home records than the Wizards -- that proves how good we are.

Plus, do you realize that only 2 teams in the East have worse road records than the Wizards -- that proves that we're due for a change.

Plus, do you realize that if everything breaks right in our next 5 games, we could actually be tied for 3d in the East? Well. Do you?

Look chief, I understand that hands, millie, and EG have worn on some of you guys and you get defensive about anything positive because you think someone is defending Ted/EG, but calm down. EG blew all of our cap space and he should be fired. Ted doesnt have the hunger/fire that owners of our other teams (Dan Snyder) have in regards to winning.

With that said, the Cavs and Raptors are the only teams that look like that would clearly beat us in a series.

I think we should be happy in that we previously thought there were only two paths:
1) Our team plays well enough to make the playoffs, but none of our young core appear to show AS potential outside of Wall and even he is not top 5 at his position. Mahinmi, Sato, and Nicholson are good enough that we win 43 games on pure depth, but our ceiling is low... EG stays, life sucks

2) None of our young core make the leap and even some regress. Our bench is mediocre at best, but our starters just cant hang and we win 30 games. EG is fired..yayyyy... but we are still garbage and have Beal's anchor contract and a pissed of Wall.

But now a 3rd avenue has presented itself... Our young players all takes steps to being top 5-7 players at their position, but our entire bench is terrible despite all the money spent. People are happy with our young players, but the failure of the bench still makes us just above average and fans dont show up. Revenue drops and Grunfeld has spent all money on aging, injured vets (Mahinmi) or crap journeyman (Nicholson/Smith).

This is the best outcome as we still have a good core/future, but Ted has a legit reason to remove EG.

I have said for a while that Brooks has his flaws in the X's/O's and his questionable rotation, but the two things he brought were the two things we NEED. 1) He has groomed young players and knows the importance of teaching skills to allow these young players to grow... and 2) He comes from a Great organization and is well-respected, so when he tells Ted at years end that our college scouting, pro scouting, and player development are all subpar, then Ted might finally listen.

Nice Post and Nice new Avenue.

pcbothwel wrote:

payitforward wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:Big game... With the Twolves, Nets, Rockets, and Mavs following this one, we could be 18-17 with a win tomorrow.
The Pacers are tied with us and the Bucks, Bulls and Hawks are all 0.5 games ahead of us. We could very well be in the 8th, or possibly 7th seed after the next 5 games.

Plus, do you realize that only 3 teams in the East have better home records than the Wizards -- that proves how good we are.

Plus, do you realize that only 2 teams in the East have worse road records than the Wizards -- that proves that we're due for a change.

Plus, do you realize that if everything breaks right in our next 5 games, we could actually be tied for 3d in the East? Well. Do you?

Look chief, I understand that hands, millie, and EG have worn on some of you guys and you get defensive about anything positive because you think someone is defending Ted/EG, but calm down. EG blew all of our cap space and he should be fired. Ted doesnt have the hunger/fire that owners of our other teams (Dan Snyder) have in regards to winning.

With that said, the Cavs and Raptors are the only teams that look like that would clearly beat us in a series.

I think we should be happy in that we previously thought there were only two paths:
1) Our team plays well enough to make the playoffs, but none of our young core appear to show AS potential outside of Wall and even he is not top 5 at his position. Mahinmi, Sato, and Nicholson are good enough that we win 43 games on pure depth, but our ceiling is low... EG stays, life sucks

2) None of our young core make the leap and even some regress. Our bench is mediocre at best, but our starters just cant hang and we win 30 games. EG is fired..yayyyy... but we are still garbage and have Beal's anchor contract and a pissed of Wall.

But now a 3rd avenue has presented itself... Our young players all takes steps to being top 5-7 players at their position, but our entire bench is terrible despite all the money spent. People are happy with our young players, but the failure of the bench still makes us just above average and fans dont show up. Revenue drops and Grunfeld has spent all money on aging, injured vets (Mahinmi) or crap journeyman (Nicholson/Smith).

This is the best outcome as we still have a good core/future, but Ted has a legit reason to remove EG.

I have said for a while that Brooks has his flaws in the X's/O's and his questionable rotation, but the two things he brought were the two things we NEED. 1) He has groomed young players and knows the importance of teaching skills to allow these young players to grow... and 2) He comes from a Great organization and is well-respected, so when he tells Ted at years end that our college scouting, pro scouting, and player development are all subpar, then Ted might finally listen.

pcb -- you misinterpreted me. I'm not against being positive. I'm a fan. And you are a fan. Be as positive as you like!

I just don't agree that "With that said, the Cavs and Raptors are the only teams that look like that would clearly beat us in a series." That is, it's much clearer that they would beat us than any other EC team -- they are, after all, +7.5 & +9 per game against the entire league -- but Boston, Charlotte, the Bulls, Milwaukee & the Pistons all have + differentials vs. the entire league, while we are -1.5 (and have the advantage of every one of those teams save Milwaukee in having played more home games & fewer road games).

Nor do I agree that "our young players all take steps to being top 5-7 players at their position," if you mean to suggest that they have all actually done that -- i.e. are demonstrating that they are going to be in the top 5-7 at their position. Now... if you just mean to say they're all improving, things look positive for all 4 of them, then sure, I agree.

But my real point was only to josh you for taking an outlandish scenario where we hop over 4 teams in 4 games and getting worked up over it. I just thought it was worth mentioning that one could be even more outlandish in that same stretch & we'd have vaulted all the way to #3!! Didn't mean anything too critical, just having fun.

montestewart wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:...Look chief, I understand that ...etc.

I like your spin on things. I also like PIF as chief, but it should be capitalized.

The young brave may call me "chief." Or "Chief."

He is a good young brave. I believe he may become one of the top 5-7 braves who call me "Chief."

payitforward wrote:But my real point was only to josh you for taking an outlandish scenario where we hop over 4 teams in 4 games and getting worked up over it. I just thought it was worth mentioning that one could be even more outlandish in that same stretch & we'd have vaulted all the way to #3!! Didn't mean anything too critical, just having fun.

But is it really outlandish pif?

Were a 1/2 game from the 6th seed!

Were 2 games from the 5th seed. 2.5 games from the 4th seed & 3.5 games from the 5th seed.

Remember before the start of the season when I stated the 5th seed may win only 40-42 games? Well it's not out the realm of possibility that happens now.

payitforward wrote:
Nor do I agree that "our young players all take steps to being top 5-7 players at their position," if you mean to suggest that they have all actually done that -- i.e. are demonstrating that they are going to be in the top 5-7 at their position. Now... if you just mean to say they're all improving, things look positive for all 4 of them, then sure, I agree.

Wait, John Wall is not currently a top 5-7 PG? Per game stats, per possession stats, and advanced stats including RPM all say that. You put Westbrook, CP3, Lowry and Curry above him and that is fine. So that would put him at 5 with two guys ahead of him in their early 30's (Lowry and CP3). Irving, Lillard, and IT are all very good players, but they are terrible defensively and that alone keeps them out of the conversation unless they are historically great at that side of the ball (Curry and Harden)..but they're not.

Beal: Per Game/PP/Advanced...etc... You've got Harden and then a huge gap. Beal is actually having a better year than Klay, but I'll give him the nod for arguments sake... but then who? Derozan started hot, but has come back to earth. KCP? Hood? Batum? Beal is having a better year than all of them. So Beal is a top 3-5 SG.

Otto: Per Game/PP/Advanced...etc... Butler, Lebron, Giannis, Durant, and Leonard are the unquestioned elite. But the only other arguments are Hayward (Who I will give you) and an overrated Paul George that has a ORtg/DRtg of 103/106 because he is inefficient and has as many turnovers as assist. And I dont want to hear about his teammates. Teague, Miles, Young and Turner are all very good, especially this year.
So that is the elite 5 and Hayward, making Otto 7th

So an optimist says we have rankings of 5, 2, and 7 while a pessimist says 7, 5, and 10. They're also 26, 23, and 23 year old. On top of that you have a high ceiling 21 y/o wing that has already improved dramatically over last year, much like Otto did from his first to 2nd year.

payitforward wrote:But my real point was only to josh you for taking an outlandish scenario where we hop over 4 teams in 4 games and getting worked up over it. I just thought it was worth mentioning that one could be even more outlandish in that same stretch & we'd have vaulted all the way to #3!! Didn't mean anything too critical, just having fun.

Outlandish?... I didnt say "We can easily hop ahead of these 4 teams and then going into the playoffs as the 4th seed..."
I was simply making an observation that the 4 teams ahead of us are 0.5 games ahead and that the standings are very fluid. Im not getting worked up at all.

pcbothwel wrote:

payitforward wrote:
Nor do I agree that "our young players all take steps to being top 5-7 players at their position," if you mean to suggest that they have all actually done that -- i.e. are demonstrating that they are going to be in the top 5-7 at their position. Now... if you just mean to say they're all improving, things look positive for all 4 of them, then sure, I agree.

Wait, John Wall is not currently a top 5-7 PG? Per game stats, per possession stats, and advanced stats including RPM all say that. You put Westbrook, CP3, Lowry and Curry above him and that is fine. So that would put him at 5 with two guys ahead of him in their early 30's (Lowry and CP3). Irving, Lillard, and IT are all very good players, but they are terrible defensively and that alone keeps them out of the conversation unless they are historically great at that side of the ball (Curry and Harden)..but they're not.

Beal: Per Game/PP/Advanced...etc... You've got Harden and then a huge gap. Beal is actually having a better year than Klay, but I'll give him the nod for arguments sake... but then who? Derozan started hot, but has come back to earth. KCP? Hood? Batum? Beal is having a better year than all of them. So Beal is a top 3-5 SG.

Otto: Per Game/PP/Advanced...etc... Butler, Lebron, Giannis, Durant, and Leonard are the unquestioned elite. But the only other arguments are Hayward (Who I will give you) and an overrated Paul George that has a ORtg/DRtg of 103/106 because he is inefficient and has as many turnovers as assist. And I dont want to hear about his teammates. Teague, Miles, Young and Turner are all very good, especially this year.
So that is the elite 5 and Hayward, making Otto 7th

So an optimist says we have rankings of 5, 2, and 7 while a pessimist says 7, 5, and 10. They're also 26, 23, and 23 year old. On top of that you have a high ceiling 21 y/o wing that has already improved dramatically over last year, much like Otto did from his first to 2nd year.

payitforward wrote:But my real point was only to josh you for taking an outlandish scenario where we hop over 4 teams in 4 games and getting worked up over it. I just thought it was worth mentioning that one could be even more outlandish in that same stretch & we'd have vaulted all the way to #3!! Didn't mean anything too critical, just having fun.

Outlandish?... I didnt say "We can easily hop ahead of these 4 teams and then going into the playoffs as the 4th seed..."
I was simply making an observation that the 4 teams ahead of us are 0.5 games ahead and that the standings are very fluid. Im not getting worked up at all.

You're just making the same point nate33 and others have made; the Wizards are not that far out of it. Who knows if they can capitalize on that, but maybe they ride Wall/Beal/Porter to a playoff run, maybe Gortat's 2nd half is stronger than his first half, maybe Oubre (or even Satoransky) makes a mid-season leap. Maybe Smith lives up to his GOAT billing. As long as they stay close, anything is possible.

pcbothwel wrote:

payitforward wrote:
Nor do I agree that "our young players all take steps to being top 5-7 players at their position," if you mean to suggest that they have all actually done that -- i.e. are demonstrating that they are going to be in the top 5-7 at their position. Now... if you just mean to say they're all improving, things look positive for all 4 of them, then sure, I agree.

Wait, John Wall is not currently a top 5-7 PG? Per game stats, per possession stats, and advanced stats including RPM all say that. You put Westbrook, CP3, Lowry and Curry above him and that is fine. So that would put him at 5 with two guys ahead of him in their early 30's (Lowry and CP3). Irving, Lillard, and IT are all very good players, but they are terrible defensively and that alone keeps them out of the conversation unless they are historically great at that side of the ball (Curry and Harden)..but they're not.

Beal: Per Game/PP/Advanced...etc... You've got Harden and then a huge gap. Beal is actually having a better year than Klay, but I'll give him the nod for arguments sake... but then who? Derozan started hot, but has come back to earth. KCP? Hood? Batum? Beal is having a better year than all of them. So Beal is a top 3-5 SG.

Otto: Per Game/PP/Advanced...etc... Butler, Lebron, Giannis, Durant, and Leonard are the unquestioned elite. But the only other arguments are Hayward (Who I will give you) and an overrated Paul George that has a ORtg/DRtg of 103/106 because he is inefficient and has as many turnovers as assist. And I dont want to hear about his teammates. Teague, Miles, Young and Turner are all very good, especially this year.
So that is the elite 5 and Hayward, making Otto 7th

So an optimist says we have rankings of 5, 2, and 7 while a pessimist says 7, 5, and 10. They're also 26, 23, and 23 year old. On top of that you have a high ceiling 21 y/o wing that has already improved dramatically over last year, much like Otto did from his first to 2nd year.

payitforward wrote:But my real point was only to josh you for taking an outlandish scenario where we hop over 4 teams in 4 games and getting worked up over it. I just thought it was worth mentioning that one could be even more outlandish in that same stretch & we'd have vaulted all the way to #3!! Didn't mean anything too critical, just having fun.

Outlandish?... I didnt say "We can easily hop ahead of these 4 teams and then going into the playoffs as the 4th seed..."
I was simply making an observation that the 4 teams ahead of us are 0.5 games ahead and that the standings are very fluid. Im not getting worked up at all.

PIF has a working assumption that WP48= basketball god. I'm convinced he is Berri.

And Yes PIF, we all know where your rankings derive from...

As to the game itself... protect the defensive glass... close out on shooters and we should be ok... Teague needs to be curtailed, he burned us quite a bit last time :/

Myles Turner is fun to watch though.

Dat2U wrote:

payitforward wrote:But my real point was only to josh you for taking an outlandish scenario where we hop over 4 teams in 4 games and getting worked up over it. I just thought it was worth mentioning that one could be even more outlandish in that same stretch & we'd have vaulted all the way to #3!! Didn't mean anything too critical, just having fun.

But is it really outlandish pif?

Were a 1/2 game from the 6th seed!

Were 2 games from the 5th seed. 2.5 games from the 4th seed & 3.5 games from the 5th seed.

Remember before the start of the season when I stated the 5th seed may win only 40-42 games? Well it's not out the realm of possibility that happens now.

Things are tightening up, no doubt. But to get to 18-17 & jump 4 teams in 5 games? First, we have to go 4-1. Then the 4 teams ahead of us have to cooperate by all of them having a meh run.

As to how many wins gets 5th seed, projecting from current records it takes 44 wins to get there. & I remember you saying 38-40 wins might do it -- not 40-42. Am I misremembering? I might be.

And that "tightening up" thing works for more teams than one, doesn't it? Orlando is 1/2 game behind us. Detroit is 1/2 game behind us. A slightly different scenario over the next few games & all of a sudden we're in 12th place again. All those scenarios are possible. What's outlandish is to convince oneself that one of them is in the offing but the others don't really exist.

Right now, we project to 35 wins based on our home & road records. I don't think that'll make the playoffs at all, do you?

Myles Turner goes off, Gortat in early foul trouble. Oubre cancels out George, but still looks like an L.

Until Jason Smith comes in and shuts down Turner, drops 7/7 on threes and ends with 40 points, 20 rebounds, 5 steals, 5 assists. Wizards Win!!!

Just beat this dame team. Tired of losing to them!

JWizmentality wrote:Just beat this dame team. Tired of losing to them!

^
Honestly, this.