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I found myself thinking about John and his journey...watching his Kentucky games and highschool mixtape, to seeing how the rookie season played out, to seeing him finally get over the one speed criticism which seemed impossible for him to fix at one point, to developing an elite pick and roll game, to becoming an all-star, and to now being where we are-- a 24/10 John Wall.

I just wonder on draft night...what did we really expect? I don't mean that rhetorically, but what kind of numbers did we have in our head about John? Frankly, has he met, surpassed, or fell short of the expectations you had in your head about him on that day the lottery balls fell in our favor?

He's met and probably exceeded my expectations.

I'm factoring in the environment he was drafted into, the lack of another all-star caliber player etc.


John's been very good but this year he's taken it to another level.

Is just the natural progression? Scott Brooks? I have no clue....but in my best Terrell Owens voice: "That's my Point Guard".

I mean if Wall continues on this track and gets 8x All-Star appearances, what stops him from having the same legacy as CP3? Wizards-Wall is similar to Hornets-CP3. The next step in Wall's career is to play with another All-Star.

Wall is a classic point guard.

I know Wall was the #1 pick and all, but you never truly know what you're going to get with a draft pick. What has consistently impressed me is the intensity and energy John plays with that really sets him apart.

Other than maybe Westbrook, I don't think I've ever seen a point guard with a stronger motor - he is able to dig deep and push himself physically year-after-year, playing through injuries, adversity etc.

And his IQ for the game is beyond what I was expecting. I remember when people were calling him a bust around his 2nd season, and he came back over the next few seasons so much improved and developed into a true floor general. There are routine plays Wall makes that still wow me, like man this guy is really a special talent. I hope he becomes a coach when he retires, because the knowledge and selflessness he has at the PG position is becoming rare these days and you hope it can be passed on to the next generation.

Meliorus wrote:I mean if Wall continues on this track and gets 8x All-Star appearances, what stops him from having the same legacy as CP3? Wizards-Wall is similar to Hornets-CP3. The next step in Wall's career is to play with another All-Star.

Wall is a classic point guard.

CP3 is imo, a demi-god of the point guard position. John is great, but Chris Paul is the quintessentially best I've ever seen play that position (was too young to really watch Magic). Before his knee injuries he was on another level, and even after he lost athleticism you could still see how much better he was than everyone else in his generation.

I feel Paul is going to end up as a top 2-3 point guard all time, so no shame in John not reaching those heights. But I'd say that Wall is definitely on pace to achieve a HOF career and will go down as a standout guard from his generation. He's around where young Jason Kidd was before getting traded to the Nets, possibly even better than that version of Kidd.

Illmatic12 wrote:I know Wall was the #1 pick and all, but you never truly know what you're going to get with a draft pick. What has consistently impressed me is the intensity and energy John plays with that really sets him apart.

Other than maybe Westbrook, I don't think I've ever seen a point guard with a stronger motor - he is able to dig deep and push himself physically year-after-year, playing through injuries, adversity etc.

And his IQ for the game is beyond what I was expecting. I remember when people were calling him a bust around his 2nd season, and he came back over the next few seasons so much improved and developed into a true floor general. There are routine plays Wall makes that still wow me, like man this guy is really a special talent. I hope he becomes a coach when he retires, because the knowledge and selflessness he has at the PG position is becoming rare these days and you hope it can be passed on to the next generation.

Agree about not knowing what to expect, and generally agree about motor and bbiq, though I've had doubts about both at times in the past. I think this year is the first where he's finally pulling together skills he's shown in the past, and he's starting to be the PG I hoped he would be. I had pretty high hopes, so I'm not going to say yet that he's exceeded anything, but I'm pretty happy with what I've seen so far this year.

He's good, not as good as Patrick Beverly though.

I'd say met or exceeded. When he came out of college, he was very rough around the edges. Out of control, sloppy with the basketball at times, and his jumpshooting was a mess. Today, he still has some of the same problems, but he's worked hard to fix those things (especially the jumpshot) and I think by the time he's around 30, you'll see a more conservative Wall that isn't as sloppy or turnover prone, especially since he won't be able to lean on his athletic ability or speed as much.

montestewart wrote:

Illmatic12 wrote:I know Wall was the #1 pick and all, but you never truly know what you're going to get with a draft pick. What has consistently impressed me is the intensity and energy John plays with that really sets him apart.

Other than maybe Westbrook, I don't think I've ever seen a point guard with a stronger motor - he is able to dig deep and push himself physically year-after-year, playing through injuries, adversity etc.

And his IQ for the game is beyond what I was expecting. I remember when people were calling him a bust around his 2nd season, and he came back over the next few seasons so much improved and developed into a true floor general. There are routine plays Wall makes that still wow me, like man this guy is really a special talent. I hope he becomes a coach when he retires, because the knowledge and selflessness he has at the PG position is becoming rare these days and you hope it can be passed on to the next generation.

Agree about not knowing what to expect, and generally agree about motor and bbiq, though I've had doubts about both at times in the past. I think this year is the first where he's finally pulling together skills he's shown in the past, and he's starting to be the PG I hoped he would be. I had pretty high hopes, so I'm not going to say yet that he's exceeded anything, but I'm pretty happy with what I've seen so far this year.

I feel like he's played through a lot of injuries in recent years that we didn't always know about. Wall isn't one to complain or take games off, but from what we know now, it seems clear that certain things were physically impacting his play.

It seems like he's finally healthy this year which is showing in the development of his game - he's becoming the player he wanted to be.

Let's face it, Wall wasn't drafted into an ideal situation. He's been undermined by a terrible front office and a limited coach with an outdated philosophy. It's a tribute to Wall's mental toughness that he helped guide this forsaken franchise to two credible playoff runs and made 3 all-star appearances.

I said before the season that our young guys would likely all breakout as they are playing for a legitimate coaching staff for the first time in their careers.

I knew Wall had this scoring ability though. I remember how aggressive he was after he came back from injury during the first year of the short lived Okariza era; Only to see that agressiveness seemingly coached out of him as he settled into a mid range gunner who would consistently pass up layups at the rim and instead kick out to perimeter shooters for inferior shots. That's no longer been an issue under Brooks and the mid range attempts are trending downward although he could still cut it down even more.

It is easy to forget just how bad Wall's jumper was at first. He is at least 10% better now. He also used to be scared to shoot 3s but has gotten over that. his jumper still isn't great but it was really an anchor his first few years.

He has come a long way. It will be interesting to see how much better he can be under Brooks. If nothing else Brooks has shown the ability to get through to young players to improve their games.

Met my expectations. I just wish the front office was fired in 2010 before the draft. Or in 2012.

John could be on that superstar class if we had an above average front office and coaching staff during the last 6 years.

I totally get why someone like Russell Westbrook wanted to stay in OKC. He has one of the top GMs in the game who has supplied a steady stream of young talent to that roster... they obviously don't have a lot of veterans but you need to keep re-stocking the roster with players on rookie deals who can play the game.

It's just disgusting what we have here.

I'm a Celtic fan. I was wondering why the Wizards haven't been pretty good this year. Wall is awesome IMO and Beal is darn good. So popular opinion is it's the coach?
Don't fret Wizard fans. We made it to the playoffs the last two years and nothing to show for it. The Cavs didn't even break a sweat. We have picks but the first one we used rots in the bench because we have a capable coach but one that has no interest in developing.

Dannyboy36 wrote:I'm a Celtic fan. I was wondering why the Wizards haven't been pretty good this year. Wall is awesome IMO and Beal is darn good. So popular opinion is it's the coach?
Don't fret Wizard fans. We made it to the playoffs the last two years and nothing to show for it. The Cavs didn't even break a sweat. We have picks but the first one we used rots in the bench because we have a capable coach but one that has no interest in developing.

Every player we have acquired over the past 12 months has sucked or in the case of Mahimni not played. Years of failure with draft picks/free agent signings have given us the leagues worst bench.

Dannyboy36 wrote:I'm a Celtic fan. We have picks but the first one we used rots in the bench because we have a capable coach but one that has no interest in developing.

I love your coach - seems like he has done a good job and plays the players that should play. Thomas has flourished under him. I don't understand the commend about developing young players. Brown (22), Rozier (22) and Smart (20) are arguably getting development minutes with commensurate to their abilities.

For now, Wall is slightly below my expectations on draft night. From college, I thought Wall would be closer athletically/explosive to someone like Westbrook and get to the free throw line at a higher rate. While he has been solid defensively, I thought he would be an elite shutdown defender from the way everyone was talking him up in college.

That being said, I am pleased that he has improved his game significantly and hopefully the Wizards can other quality pieces around him.

Wizardspride wrote:He's met and probably exceeded my expectations.

I'm factoring in the environment he was drafted into, the lack of another all-star caliber player etc.


John's been very good but this year he's taken it to another level.

Is just the natural progression? Scott Brooks? I have no clue....but in my best Terrell Owens voice: "That's my Point Guard".

I mean Brooks has a history of crazy player development under him but it was always a question of if it was just Presti. We knew his X's and O's were eh but thought if he could be Randy with elite player development that would be a huge boost. Again...he's been with the team for such a short time that I'm really hesitant to give him credit for the jump, but its such a big coincidence that guys have developed to this extent at the same time the moment he got here.

Wall's a great player and a sure-fire multi-year all-star. If he stays in DC, he'll get his # retired. But, he has yet to meet my expectations.

Re: physical tools/potential: 6/10 (10 being maxing out his tools/potential): he has the physical tools to be a GP-level defender -- yet he doesn't bring it at that level night in and night out. He has the physical tools to be a Westbrookian attacker on offense. But, whereas Westbrook attempts to dunk on/go over/go through defenders, Wall tries to rely on his speed to beat the help and lay it in -- which results in less contact and fewer fouls drawn. He's 6'4" with dunk contest hops, yet he's all but forsaken the vertical element of his game, except for wide-open lanes and fast breaks. Wall's also come into training camp out of shape more than once, which is a no=no.

Wall's a great player as-is, but on a "maximizing potential" scale from, say, a 'Sheed Wallace/Tyreke Evans/Kevin Seraphin (content to settle for less than what their physical tools could've provided them) to Kobe/Nash/Juan Dixon (did the absolute best they could w/ the body they were given), Wall is kinda in the middle. Like, say, a Vince Carter.

Re: his skills: 8/10. I've rated Wall highest here, largely based on how much he's worked on his outside shooting. Now, he's no Kawhi, but he gets props for improving mid-ranger jumper and his 3PT jumperset shot. He's improved his handles a little bit, too. I think he works hard on his game, to his credit -- even during those offseasons when he didn't work as hard on his body as he could/should have.

Re: his mentality: 6/10. I don't know if he'll ever reduce his TOs, because they're not caused by a lack of skill, but by an inherent recklessness in his approach to the game. If he magically acquired Isiah Thomas' handles, he'd simply be even *more* reckless. If he were a QB, he'd be a gunslinger, not a game manager. That mentality leads to some amazing plays, but it also leads to some seemingly stupid plays as well. We just gotta hope that he's a Favre, and not a Jay Cutler.

But, I like the fact that he's willing to take big shots. And, his last playoff performance was strong .

Re: his leadership: 5/10. I think the FO's dysfunction has made his growth as a locker room leader more difficult. That said, I think his insecurities about his Q-rating and his blunt tongue handicap his ability to lead as well.

Re: his camp: 3/10; Incomplete. I wasn't impressed with his previous camp. They signed with Reebok two years before Reebok folded up their basketball line, managed his brand poorly, and left a lot of off-court money on the table as a result. The jury's out on Klutch Sports to see if they have the chops to make real moves for anyone not named LeBron James.

I mention this because I think Wall would benefit from some off-court validation. He loves to say that the lack of respect fuels him, but I think the opposite is true: the lack of respect distracts him. If Rich Paul & co. can eventually get Wall's off-court money right, I think we'll see a more confident, focused, and self-assured player on the court.

dckingsfan wrote:

Dannyboy36 wrote:I'm a Celtic fan. We have picks but the first one we used rots in the bench because we have a capable coach but one that has no interest in developing.

I love your coach - seems like he has done a good job and plays the players that should play. Thomas has flourished under him. I don't understand the commend about developing young players. Brown (22), Rozier (22) and Smart (20) are arguably getting development minutes with commensurate to their abilities.

It's an unpopular opinion in Boston. Everyone thinks he's a smart guy but he was playing Phil Pressey minutes instead of letting Marcus Smart take his lumps. He had him sitting in the corner shooting 3's and he's a historically bad 3 point shooter.
Hes over 2 years late putting Smart in right position to develop.
Everyone in Boston knows we're not contenders but instead of letting Brown take his lumps , he's also riding the pine too much. Rozier was recently a DNP.
He played fat Jared Sully over Olynyk when we knew Sully wasn't going to be resigned. I could go on and on.
Again, Stevens is very capable. But he's not THAT special.
In Boston there's a phrase repeated over and over at nauseous and most believe it.
" Brad Stevens is the Celtics best asset".
It's just not true.

Maybe it's a spoiled point of view but I could care less about being an "also ran " team. I'd rather take a step back to take two steps forward and showcase guys that can up their value to have a more intriguing trade package. Instead he finally just stopped playing zeller, played tayshaun prince 22 mns a game. Classic college coach that will win now at all costs including hurting the future.