NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4

[closg00]

Has anyone seen any of the new rookie class in other pre-season games, any surprises?

[closg00]

Lakers lost, Nats won, it was a good night

[trast66]

Lakers lost, Nats won, it was a good night

That's for sure! Short of injury I hope the worst for LeBron and AD.

Alvin Gentry's rotations last night were Brooksonian. I don't think Lonzo and Jrue can co-exist.

[nate33]

Lakers lost, Nats won, it was a good night

The Lakers/Clippers game was informative.

Lebron and Davis played well as expected. And their one big money free agent, Danny Green, had one of the best games of his career. But despite that, they just couldn't hang with the depth of the Clippers. And the Clippers didn't even have Paul George.

The Clippers really look like they'll be a great team, maybe historically great if Paul George gets healthy and they manage to integrate him. They've got it all: shot creators, perimeter shooting, defense, superstars, and the ultimate spark plug duo off the bench in Williams and Harrell.

[I_Like_Dirt]

The Lakers/Clippers game was informative.

Lebron and Davis played well as expected. And their one big money free agent, Danny Green, had one of the best games of his career. But despite that, they just couldn't hang with the depth of the Clippers. And the Clippers didn't even have Paul George.

The Clippers really look like they'll be a great team, maybe historically great if Paul George gets healthy and they manage to integrate him. They've got it all: shot creators, perimeter shooting, defense, superstars, and the ultimate spark plug duo off the bench in Williams and Harrell.

The Clippers are also extremely well coached. Doc is a terrible GM but a top notch coach. The Clippers' only weakness is their bigs. Doc was trying to figure out who else he could put out there besides Harrell and Jam Green looked okay but not amazing while Zubac and Patterson looked overwhelmed. Zubac could still grow into the role but he's got a ways to go.

The Lakers just don't have the interior scorers to exploit it. Lebron was sleepwalking. Davis isn't physical enough. They don't have any slashing guards and their depth beyond their top 3 isn't very good. Rondo might help a bit, I suppose, but I doubt he works well together with Lebron - should work well with Davis and Green. The Clippers, meanwhile, have a load of guards and Danny Green can't guard everybody. It's going to be a fun season watching Lakers fans trying to figure out how Danny Green manages to rate so damn highly in any advanced stat out there.

I do think there are a few teams that will give the Clippers trouble, even with George but I don't think the Lakers are one of them. Not sure if they'll win, but the Jazz have Conley and Mitchell on the perimeter with Gobert inside. That's going to take some work for the Clippers. The Rockets also have guards that absolutely require backup defensive support from bigs and I'm not sure who does that on the Clippers, particularly not with Capella there feasting if he's left open. Out east, I think the Bucks and Sixers also offer some challenges, too. I think the Clippers are the best team in the league but they haven't faced the real competition just yet. The Lakers' supporting cast was absolutely awful last season and got worse this season while adding Davis and Green to create a rather strong top 3.

[nate33]

The Lakers/Clippers game was informative.

Lebron and Davis played well as expected. And their one big money free agent, Danny Green, had one of the best games of his career. But despite that, they just couldn't hang with the depth of the Clippers. And the Clippers didn't even have Paul George.

The Clippers really look like they'll be a great team, maybe historically great if Paul George gets healthy and they manage to integrate him. They've got it all: shot creators, perimeter shooting, defense, superstars, and the ultimate spark plug duo off the bench in Williams and Harrell.

The Clippers are also extremely well coached. Doc is a terrible GM but a top notch coach. The Clippers' only weakness is their bigs. Doc was trying to figure out who else he could put out there besides Harrell and Jam Green looked okay but not amazing while Zubac and Patterson looked overwhelmed. Zubac could still grow into the role but he's got a ways to go.

The Lakers just don't have the interior scorers to exploit it. Lebron was sleepwalking. Davis isn't physical enough. They don't have any slashing guards and their depth beyond their top 3 isn't very good. Rondo might help a bit, I suppose, but I doubt he works well together with Lebron - should work well with Davis and Green. The Clippers, meanwhile, have a load of guards and Danny Green can't guard everybody. It's going to be a fun season watching Lakers fans trying to figure out how Danny Green manages to rate so damn highly in any advanced stat out there.

I do think there are a few teams that will give the Clippers trouble, even with George but I don't think the Lakers are one of them. Not sure if they'll win, but the Jazz have Conley and Mitchell on the perimeter with Gobert inside. That's going to take some work for the Clippers. The Rockets also have guards that absolutely require backup defensive support from bigs and I'm not sure who does that on the Clippers, particularly not with Capella there feasting if he's left open. Out east, I think the Bucks and Sixers also offer some challenges, too. I think the Clippers are the best team in the league but they haven't faced the real competition just yet. The Lakers' supporting cast was absolutely awful last season and got worse this season while adding Davis and Green to create a rather strong top 3.

Good points here. It is true that the Clippers lack an eraser in the paint. I'm not sure how much that's going to matter in the modern NBA though. Outside of Philly, nobody really has a low post big that matters. I think the Clippers versatility and length will be enough to deal with pick-and-roll divers like Gobert and Capela. Rotating guys like JayMichael Green and Moe Harkless to jam rim runners should be effective enough. And their elite on-ball defenders (Kawhi, George and Beverly) will help against the James Hardens of the league more so than a lack of a rim defender will hurt.

We've seen what Kawhi can do to Giannis, so I don't think the Bucks are a problem. The one bad matchup might be Philly. The Clippers don't have anyone that can deal with Embiid in the paint. But Philly is going to need to find the shooters to give Embiid room to operate.

It would be real interesting if the Clippers can make a midseason trade to land a better defensive center. Marc Gasol and Stephen Adams may be available, but their contracts are a little big to match. They can send out Zubac and Harkless for a salary total of $17.5M, allowing them to bring back a salary as big as $22.5M.

[I_Like_Dirt]

The traditional eraser is overrated now but a versatile big who can rotate inside and out matters. It's not just for opposing bigs, though I'd suggest the bigs aren't limited to just Embiid - the Raptors absolutely needed Marc Gasol for Giannis last season, too. But it's also opposing guards. Teams still want to stack the paint against those guys. The problem is that you need a big who can do that and also rotate out to the 3-point line if need be and those are really damn hard to find. The Warriors managed to pull it off by being absolutely overloaded with talent but before Durant even they relied on Bogut a fair bit.

It will matter against Harden/Russ, Conley/Mitchell, hell, even the Nuggets swarm of scoring guards combined with Jokic is a weird matchup for the Clippers. Of course, the Clippers have other stuff that makes them exceedingly hard to match up with as well. George and Leonard are absolute powerhouses and they have an underrated guard rotation that doesn't have top end talent but is loaded with a bunch of different rotation quality players and looks they can offer. Harrell is awesome but they'd be downright unstoppable if they managed to pull off a trade for a defensive C. And they have some interesting parts that might make a trade work both in terms of salary and in terms of value. Just depends on who becomes available and how the season plays out.


Regarding last night's other game, the Pelicans look like a team that won't quit and Zion is going to be a big deal for them when he comes back. Lowry and Gasol both looked old and rusty. Masai keeps pulling rabbits out of the player development hat, though. I think the undrafted Terence Davis looked better that the 17th pick, Alexander-Walker. I'm left wondering if Jaxson Hayes is actually going to be better than Dewan Hernandez (the 59th pick) not because there's anything wrong with Hayes but because Masai basically never misses ever when he drafts a player or signs an undrafted rookie to an immediate NBA contract. The only such player since he joined the Raptors that isn't poised for a solid NBA career thus far is DeAndre Daniels. I get that they had to deny it but it would have been foolish not to have at least enquired about Masai this offseason.

[nate33]

And they have some interesting parts that might make a trade work both in terms of salary and in terms of value. Just depends on who becomes available and how the season plays out.

Any chance we can put some lipstick on Ian Mahinmi and convince LA to trade us Moe Harkless for him?

[I_Like_Dirt]

Any chance we can put some lipstick on Ian Mahinmi and convince LA to trade us Moe Harkless for him?

Maybe if they put together a stream of his highlights?

[Ruzious]

No shame in Boston losing to the uber talented 76ers, but... I expect a big fall for the Celtics. Their defense up front is bad, and they really don't have good perimeter shooting. Kemba's a lot of fun and a great competitor, but he needs to be surrounded by shooters. He's a streak shooter - not someone who's going to stretch the defense consistently. And I know some love Smart, but he's a bad offensive player. Just 1 game but their rookies produced practically nothing in game 1. The ones that played were awful, and Lankford's injured.

[Ruzious]

Fwiw, 12th pick PJ Washington had an excellent scoring debut for Cha, but I doubt we'll regret not taking him at 9. He helped beat Chicago - with both Otto and Sato in the starting lineup. Otto was mediocre, and Sato was pretty much invisible. Markkanen looked like a star. It'll be interesting to see if Otto and Sato are viewed as being too passive by Bulls fans this season.

[nate33]

Fwiw, 12th pick PJ Washington had an excellent scoring debut for Cha, but I doubt we'll regret not taking him at 9. He helped beat Chicago - with both Otto and Sato in the starting lineup. Otto was mediocre, and Sato was pretty much invisible. Markkanen looked like a star. It'll be interesting to see if Otto and Sato are viewed as being too passive by Bulls fans this season.

Maybe Chicago will trade us Sato for Ish Smith and two 2nd rounders. We can forget all about that unpleasant business.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Fwiw, 12th pick PJ Washington had an excellent scoring debut for Cha, but I doubt we'll regret not taking him at 9. He helped beat Chicago - with both Otto and Sato in the starting lineup. Otto was mediocre, and Sato was pretty much invisible. Markkanen looked like a star. It'll be interesting to see if Otto and Sato are viewed as being too passive by Bulls fans this season.

Sato was fine. The team collapsed when they tried to run Dunn or Arcidiacono instead. Sato is a role player who largely stays out of the way and is never going to be a star and he's getting close to the MLE. Otto... yeah... he's still very good but he's a role player that's paid like a star.

[payitforward]

Fwiw, 12th pick PJ Washington had an excellent scoring debut for Cha, but I doubt we'll regret not taking him at 9. He helped beat Chicago - with both Otto and Sato in the starting lineup. Otto was mediocre, and Sato was pretty much invisible. Markkanen looked like a star. It'll be interesting to see if Otto and Sato are viewed as being too passive by Bulls fans this season.

Washington hit 7 3's in a single quarter -- a rookie record. OTOH, he had a grand total of 4 boards in 38 minutes. & he also turned it over 4 times.

Hey. He's a rookie!

[payitforward]

Fwiw, 12th pick PJ Washington had an excellent scoring debut for Cha, but I doubt we'll regret not taking him at 9. He helped beat Chicago - with both Otto and Sato in the starting lineup. Otto was mediocre, and Sato was pretty much invisible. Markkanen looked like a star. It'll be interesting to see if Otto and Sato are viewed as being too passive by Bulls fans this season.

Maybe Chicago will trade us Sato for Ish Smith and two 2nd rounders. We can forget all about that unpleasant business.

LOL...

Alas, I doubt it!

[Ruzious]

Fwiw, 12th pick PJ Washington had an excellent scoring debut for Cha, but I doubt we'll regret not taking him at 9. He helped beat Chicago - with both Otto and Sato in the starting lineup. Otto was mediocre, and Sato was pretty much invisible. Markkanen looked like a star. It'll be interesting to see if Otto and Sato are viewed as being too passive by Bulls fans this season.

Sato was fine. The team collapsed when they tried to run Dunn or Arcidiacono instead. Sato is a role player who largely stays out of the way and is never going to be a star and he's getting close to the MLE. Otto... yeah... he's still very good but he's a role player that's paid like a star.

If Sato played halfway decently, Chicago wins easily. In 24.22 minutes, he made 1 of 5 shots, no FT's, no rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 2 fouls, and 2 points. He was a self-check. He had a plus 4, but that's almost certainly because his teammates happened to more than make up for his ineffectual play.

[I_Like_Dirt]

If Sato played halfway decently, Chicago wins easily. In 24.22 minutes, he made 1 of 5 shots, no FT's, no rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 2 fouls, and 2 points. He was a self-check. He had a plus 4, but that's almost certainly because his teammates happened to more than make up for his ineffectual play.

I mean, he wasn't great but he played his role just fine. It would be nice for him to hit his shots but he was getting the offense moving and keeping the team under control. Which teammates do you think were bringing him up? Porter led the team in +/-. He played some with Coby White but White also tended to be a - when he was out there. Thad Young also scored a fair bit but he's not exactly the most consistently aggressive offensive force, either.

The Bulls don't need that many players to score a bunch of points. They need some guys to step back and do some of the non box score stuff. Sato did that. Some days Sato will hit his shots, others he won't. That isn't proof of if he's actually helpful or not. It wasn't so much a case of anyone bringing Sato up. Dunn and Arcidiacono hit their shots (which definitely isn't a reliable thing) but ran the team way worse. They fell apart in the 4th within a minute or two of taking Sato out. I'm not saying he was great. He was just the kind of solid role player they need. Markkanen, White and Lavine strike me as the guys who are going to take a bunch of shots and be allowed to pick the shots they want.

[closg00]

Fwiw, 12th pick PJ Washington had an excellent scoring debut for Cha, but I doubt we'll regret not taking him at 9. He helped beat Chicago - with both Otto and Sato in the starting lineup. Otto was mediocre, and Sato was pretty much invisible. Markkanen looked like a star. It'll be interesting to see if Otto and Sato are viewed as being too passive by Bulls fans this season.

Sato was fine. The team collapsed when they tried to run Dunn or Arcidiacono instead. Sato is a role player who largely stays out of the way and is never going to be a star and he's getting close to the MLE. Otto... yeah... he's still very good but he's a role player that's paid like a star.

Sato is not Manu, he is solid player, but CHI over paid

[Illmatic12]

Fwiw, 12th pick PJ Washington had an excellent scoring debut for Cha, but I doubt we'll regret not taking him at 9. He helped beat Chicago - with both Otto and Sato in the starting lineup. Otto was mediocre, and Sato was pretty much invisible. Markkanen looked like a star. It'll be interesting to see if Otto and Sato are viewed as being too passive by Bulls fans this season.

Sato was fine. The team collapsed when they tried to run Dunn or Arcidiacono instead. Sato is a role player who largely stays out of the way and is never going to be a star and he's getting close to the MLE. Otto... yeah... he's still very good but he's a role player that's paid like a star.

If Sato played halfway decently, Chicago wins easily. In 24.22 minutes, he made 1 of 5 shots, no FT's, no rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 2 fouls, and 2 points. He was a self-check. He had a plus 4, but that's almost certainly because his teammates happened to more than make up for his ineffectual play.

Sato is in a worse situation in Chicago than he was here. Worse coaching, worse system for his style of play, will get less playing time, and will likely still miss the playoffs.

[payitforward]

...of course he does have $30m to console him.