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NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1761 » by FAH1223 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:33 pm

Lu Dort, undrafted drops 30 points in a game 7. Youngest guy along with LeBron James and Kobe Bryant to do that.

OKC really was dumb with the final play. The lob to Adams was WIDE OPEN.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1762 » by pancakes3 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 7:53 pm

you had some all-timers as far as choke artists in that game but CP3 stands alone.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1763 » by nate33 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:30 pm

pancakes3 wrote:you had some all-timers as far as choke artists in that game but CP3 stands alone.

Yeah, he is basking in media praise for the two 3-pointers he hit late in Game 6, but he choked away Game 7. He had a bad turnover and a missed wide-open floater about 6 feet from the rim.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1764 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 1:33 pm

Kawhi is the best player in the league. He is insanely consistent. No ups and downs. Just mark him down for 30 points on a TS% north of .600 every single night. There's nothing anybody can do to stop his midrange game. If you need a bucket, just give him the ball. End of story.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1765 » by I_Like_Dirt » Fri Sep 4, 2020 2:27 pm

nate33 wrote:Kawhi is the best player in the league. He is insanely consistent. No ups and downs. Just mark him down for 30 points on a TS% north of .600 every single night. There's nothing anybody can do to stop his midrange game. If you need a bucket, just give him the ball. End of story.
Yeah, he's basically a modern day Shaq in the sense of having figures out that he can coast during the regular season to preserve his health and then nobody can stop him in the playoffs. Sure seems like he's got some sort of medical condition that will never let him play at 100% which sucks because he just outclasses the rest of the league when he turns it on (though Luka punched pretty close). I've had the Clippers as favorites since the offseason and I'm more convinced than ever. The Celtics and Raptors might have the best chances against them but I'd be pretty surprised if anyone beats the Clippers at relatively full health. I don't think even Lebron is going to be able to slow Kawhi down - he's basically a terminator who does what he does and nobody can stop him. I just wish the rest of that Clippers team was easier to cheer for because cheering for Kawhi is easy.

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1766 » by Ruzious » Fri Sep 4, 2020 2:35 pm

nate33 wrote:Kawhi is the best player in the league. He is insanely consistent. No ups and downs. Just mark him down for 30 points on a TS% north of .600 every single night. There's nothing anybody can do to stop his midrange game. If you need a bucket, just give him the ball. End of story.

Not to mention, he's an absurdly great defender - with his unique combo of length, anticipation, quickness and strength. Yeah, even better than Giannis, because Kawhi can guard point guards.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1767 » by pcbothwel » Fri Sep 4, 2020 3:57 pm

nate33 wrote:Kawhi is the best player in the league. He is insanely consistent. No ups and downs. Just mark him down for 30 points on a TS% north of .600 every single night. There's nothing anybody can do to stop his midrange game. If you need a bucket, just give him the ball. End of story.


I really do think Rui can develop that same skill set, which is really intriguing me because its not en vogue and also rare.
Kawhi is a 85/70/45/35 (38% to be exact) shooter from the Free throw/Basket/Midrange (16 ft)/3 Point.

Rui, as a rookie, is already at 83/68/40/29 shooter. Now, he'll probably never hit the 3 at the 38% rate, but even if he gets that to 33/34% while also making small improvements elsewhere... he becomes a very dangerous offensive weapon because he can hurt you from anywhere.

Again, this is not to compare the two as complete players, but simply their offensive style and output.
Im excited for him in year 2, because the projection is there... But he'll need to become a better defender or rebounder in order to broaden is skill set.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1768 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 4:43 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
nate33 wrote:Kawhi is the best player in the league. He is insanely consistent. No ups and downs. Just mark him down for 30 points on a TS% north of .600 every single night. There's nothing anybody can do to stop his midrange game. If you need a bucket, just give him the ball. End of story.


I really do think Rui can develop that same skill set, which is really intriguing me because its not en vogue and also rare.
Kawhi is a 85/70/45/35 (38% to be exact) shooter from the Free throw/Basket/Midrange (16 ft)/3 Point.

Rui, as a rookie, is already at 83/68/40/29 shooter. Now, he'll probably never hit the 3 at the 38% rate, but even if he gets that to 33/34% while also making small improvements elsewhere... he becomes a very dangerous offensive weapon because he can hurt you from anywhere.

Again, this is not to compare the two as complete players, but simply their offensive style and output.
Im excited for him in year 2, because the projection is there... But he'll need to become a better defender or rebounder in order to broaden is skill set.

I hope so. Rui does have the high release point and solid accuracy on his step-back midrange game, as well as the big hands and long arms. The big difference is Kawhi seems to be able to get separation whenever he wants. Rui doesn't have that yet. Good defenders can consistently challenge Rui's shot when in isolation at midrange. It may be that everyone anticipates Rui's step back and he hasn't developed enough feints and counters to keep defenders honest. Or maybe it's that Rui isn't as strong as Kawhi and can't bump the defender off balance as easily.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1769 » by I_Like_Dirt » Fri Sep 4, 2020 4:55 pm

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
nate33 wrote:Kawhi is the best player in the league. He is insanely consistent. No ups and downs. Just mark him down for 30 points on a TS% north of .600 every single night. There's nothing anybody can do to stop his midrange game. If you need a bucket, just give him the ball. End of story.


I really do think Rui can develop that same skill set, which is really intriguing me because its not en vogue and also rare.
Kawhi is a 85/70/45/35 (38% to be exact) shooter from the Free throw/Basket/Midrange (16 ft)/3 Point.

Rui, as a rookie, is already at 83/68/40/29 shooter. Now, he'll probably never hit the 3 at the 38% rate, but even if he gets that to 33/34% while also making small improvements elsewhere... he becomes a very dangerous offensive weapon because he can hurt you from anywhere.

Again, this is not to compare the two as complete players, but simply their offensive style and output.
Im excited for him in year 2, because the projection is there... But he'll need to become a better defender or rebounder in order to broaden is skill set.

I hope so. Rui does have the high release point and solid accuracy on his step-back midrange game, as well as the big hands and long arms. The big difference is Kawhi seems to be able to get separation whenever he wants. Rui doesn't have that yet. Good defenders can consistently challenge Rui's shot when in isolation at midrange. It may be that everyone anticipates Rui's step back and he hasn't developed enough feints and counters to keep defenders honest. Or maybe it's that Rui isn't as strong as Kawhi and can't bump the defender off balance as easily.
I'd suggest Kawhi's leg strength that makes an absolutely massive difference. He's like a concrete pillar out there when he stops and when he moves, others feel the force. That shot against the Sixers Raptors fans like to show, it's not the shot that's the most amazing, it's that off-center low squat he holds for several seconds. Apparently he broke some leg strength testing machine in San Antonio. The focus was on the size of his hands, and that definitely matters, but his legs are the key to his success.

I do see some offensive similarities with Rui. He does seem to have pretty strong legs, too, but whether or not he gets to Kawhi's level, he's definitely not there yet. He does a lot of stuff really well for the modern game, though. Kawhi or not, he's the kind of big, mobile triple threat team defender that works in the modern NBA. He needs some more experience and better range but those are among the easier things to improve where basketball is concerned.

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1770 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 4, 2020 7:29 pm

Rui just came off his rookie season, during which he did a few things, not too many, pretty well -- & many things quite badly. It's unfair to him to use Kawhi as a point of comparison. It's also offensive to Kawhi.

Not to mention colossally ridiculous. Maybe you should all take a moment to compare Rui with Kawhi's rookie year. Of course, Kawhi came out after 2 years of college rather than 3.

If you say "player _______________ will never be anywhere near the player Kawhi Leonard is," & you fill in that blank repeatedly with names of NBA players, you will be right 99 times out of 100. If you expand it to include players from the past, you will once again be correct 99 times out of 100.

Would you bet even money that of the #1 pick in the next 10 drafts no more than 3 of them will be as good players as Kawhi Leonard? I would.

Kawhi Leonard is not a meaningful point of comparison for Rui Hachimura. An average NBA 4 is the first mark for him to aim at. As a rookie, no surprise, he was a long, long way, a far far distance from approaching that mark. Let's see if he can take a step towards that in his 2d season.

If he does, then one could say in an optimistic bur not pie-in-the-sky way that "I really do think Rui can develop that same skill set" of an average NBA 4. Right now saying even that is expressing hope & nothing more.

Now, for writing this I'm sure I'll be treated to some number of remarks along the lines of "see, PIF hates Rui." Won't be true, but more than one person will write it with absolute certainty. Then someone will chime in to agree -- & he'll bring up the never-to-be-mentioned you-know-who.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1771 » by I_Like_Dirt » Sat Sep 5, 2020 2:45 am

The Bucks sure look finished. I can't imagine this gets any better next season when their supporting cast is even older.

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1772 » by LyricalRico » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:27 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:The Bucks sure look finished. I can't imagine this gets any better next season when their supporting cast is even older.

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Yep, stick a fork in-em. With Boston and Miami playing the way they are and Brooklyn getting healthy next season, I don't see them having much of a window with their current squad. This year was it IMO.

Hill is on the other side of his career and Blesdoe has never been reliable. Always thought Middleton was overrated with a game built for the regular season. And as much as Brook Lopez has become a 3pt shooter, I'm not sure it's a net positive for them.

I think they need a point guard with guts who can score when he has to and a more dynamic frontcourt presence to take the next step. Basically subtract Middleton and add prime Jeff Teague and Marc Gasol. Obviously they can't just wave a magic wand to get that, but that's the direction I think they need to go.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1773 » by I_Like_Dirt » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:39 pm

What kills me a bit is that Brogdon was a scoring guard that they played off Giannis and Bledsoe instead until the playoffs when they'd finally go to him because nothing else was working. They needed to keep their best players who also happened to be their youngest rotation guys and find cheaper ways of adding a supporting cast. Doesn't seem like Bud learned from that at all with the Hawks after he quit on the team because he hadn't committed to investing in any super talented younger players and their old core was done.

I think Middleton is fine for the playoffs, I just think it's dangerous to let the regular season stats of supporting players on a team that runs up ths score in the regular season a lot fool you into thinking they're more than they are. He's a solid defender who can score from a lot of places, rebounds alright but is a bit streaky. They could really use one or two more guys on his talent level.

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1774 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Sep 5, 2020 11:41 pm

nate33 wrote:Kawhi is the best player in the league. He is insanely consistent. No ups and downs. Just mark him down for 30 points on a TS% north of .600 every single night. There's nothing anybody can do to stop his midrange game. If you need a bucket, just give him the ball. End of story.


Ten years ago, we debated over how good a pro Leonard would be. His stats and his performance in NCAA tournament games stood out.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kawhi-leonard-1.html

What stood out then was his rebound percentages both on offensive and defensive rebounds. His defensive rating and his defensive win shares in the MWC also stand out, now.


This is an abrupt jump but I just want to say that IN 10 YEARS:

Based on the numbers I think I see, Jalen Smith is going to be a very good pro.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-smith-1.html
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JALEN SMITH and either Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Udoka Azubuike, or TYLER BEY (if they get lucky and he slips in the draft).
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1775 » by LyricalRico » Sun Sep 6, 2020 7:17 pm

Just now the panel on NBA Countdown said we should keep an eye on Portland as a potential landing spot for Giannis, something based around McCollum+Nurkic+picks so he can pair with LIllard. Doesn't seem like nearly enough for an MVP who may actually still be improving, but that would be a heckuva duo.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1776 » by nate33 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:30 am

LyricalRico wrote:Just now the panel on NBA Countdown said we should keep an eye on Portland as a potential landing spot for Giannis, something based around McCollum+Nurkic+picks so he can pair with LIllard. Doesn't seem like nearly enough for an MVP who may actually still be improving, but that would be a heckuva duo.

It's an interesting situation. If we assume that Milwaukee is pretty confident that they can't keep Giannis and is therefore willing to trade, what exactly will they be looking for? Most of their team outside of Giannis is already pretty old. Will they be looking for win-now vets? Or will they also trade Bledsoe, Lopez and perhaps even Middleton and try to blow it up?
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1777 » by nate33 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:34 am

payitforward wrote:Rui just came off his rookie season, during which he did a few things, not too many, pretty well -- & many things quite badly. It's unfair to him to use Kawhi as a point of comparison. It's also offensive to Kawhi.


pcbothwel wrote:Again, this is not to compare the two as complete players, but simply their offensive style and output.
Im excited for him in year 2, because the projection is there... But he'll need to become a better defender or rebounder in order to broaden is skill set.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1778 » by Ruzious » Tue Sep 8, 2020 4:26 am

It's not that Milwaukee is in trouble. It's that Miami is just that good, and people didn't realize it. Miami might be the most balanced team in the NBA - able to play any type of team. And Boston is right up there - though they're a smaller team that I think will ultimately be out-muscled up front.

Just watched the Clippers, and I'm not sure how they're going to be stopped - as they have maybe the most versatile forward combo I've ever seen in the truly great Leonard and arguably great George - both... able to dominate the game at both ends. At the end of a game, how do you stop a team with those 2, Harrell/Zoubac (very underrated), Beverly, and Lou Wil? Plus, they have the better Morris brother. And the one thing Leonard wasn't really good at - setting up teammates... he is really good at that now. He made 2 legit great passes down the stretch tonight. George has never had a teammate anywhere near as good as Leonard, and you can see how much more relaxed he is out there. Denver's giving them a battle, but... they have no chance even with the Joker playing out of his mind. Michael Porter Jr is a scoring savant though.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1779 » by nate33 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:43 am

This Celtics/Raptors series is some of the best basketball I've watched in years. Man, I really like both teams. Everyone plays so hard and so smart.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1780 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:38 pm

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
nate33 wrote:Kawhi is the best player in the league. He is insanely consistent. No ups and downs. Just mark him down for 30 points on a TS% north of .600 every single night. There's nothing anybody can do to stop his midrange game. If you need a bucket, just give him the ball. End of story.


I really do think Rui can develop that same skill set, which is really intriguing me because its not en vogue and also rare.
Kawhi is a 85/70/45/35 (38% to be exact) shooter from the Free throw/Basket/Midrange (16 ft)/3 Point.

Rui, as a rookie, is already at 83/68/40/29 shooter. Now, he'll probably never hit the 3 at the 38% rate, but even if he gets that to 33/34% while also making small improvements elsewhere... he becomes a very dangerous offensive weapon because he can hurt you from anywhere.

Again, this is not to compare the two as complete players, but simply their offensive style and output.
Im excited for him in year 2, because the projection is there... But he'll need to become a better defender or rebounder in order to broaden is skill set.

I hope so. Rui does have the high release point and solid accuracy on his step-back midrange game, as well as the big hands and long arms. The big difference is Kawhi seems to be able to get separation whenever he wants. Rui doesn't have that yet. Good defenders can consistently challenge Rui's shot when in isolation at midrange. It may be that everyone anticipates Rui's step back and he hasn't developed enough feints and counters to keep defenders honest. Or maybe it's that Rui isn't as strong as Kawhi and can't bump the defender off balance as easily.


Rebounding is what made Kawhi Leonard elite in college. Rui can’t get the boards Kawhi can when he applies himself.

Defense also separates elite from merely good scorers like Tobias Harris, Rui Hachimura and many others.

Okongwu might have a bit of what’s made Kawhi a transcendent talent. Obi Toppin does not have the defense IMO
2020 Wizards SHOULD Draft:

(Unless they move up in the top to draft Wiseman/Okongwu)

JALEN SMITH and either Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Udoka Azubuike, or TYLER BEY (if they get lucky and he slips in the draft).

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