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NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1781 » by payitforward » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:39 am

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Rui just came off his rookie season, ... It's unfair to him to use Kawhi as a point of comparison. It's also offensive to Kawhi.

pcbothwel wrote:Again, this is not to compare the two as complete players, but simply their offensive style and output.

Well, obviously, no one would compare them as complete players! :)

It's precisely the comparison of "offensive style and output" that seems so way off. Maybe I'm wrong? But, I can't see the similarity.

Certainly, rookie Rui was in no way similar to rookie Leonard. E.g.:
As a rookie, 27% of Kawhi Leonard's shot attempts were 3s.
As a rookie, 16% of Rui Hachimura's shot attempts were 3s.

Let alone the results -- 37.6% for Leonard vs. 28.7% for Rui. More importantly, Kawhi took only 7.67 2-point attempts per 40 minutes as a rookie. Basically, he only scored on opportunities. He was never featured. OTOH, when Rui was on the floor, he was definitely featured: he took 12.67 2-pointers per 40 minutes, most of them in situations utterly unlike any of Kawhi's play early in his career.

It's no different, really, when I look at Leonard's activity on the court in his prime years vs Rui's activity on court in the limited time we have had him. They just don't look similar at all.

We'll find out in time how good a player Rui Hachimura is. We won't find that out by looking at his play as a rookie. Now, fans don't like that kind of uncertainty, so I suppose it's normal to try to leapfrog it by finding some model for the player. In this case, to me it seems to amount to trying make Rui's light brighter by adding reflections from Kawhi Leonard. Natural enough, I guess; no one would think of comparing his play to Thaddeus Young or Dario Saric or Jerami Grant or... Nicolo Melli.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1782 » by I_Like_Dirt » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:13 pm

nate33 wrote:This Celtics/Raptors series is some of the best basketball I've watched in years. Man, I really like both teams. Everyone plays so hard and so smart.
That series was amazing. No superstars but just amazing play across the board. Even the guys who "struggled" were largely the result of defensive focus anf still played top end defense doing what the team asked selflessly without regard to how they would look superficially or what fans would think. I actually think they topped the Nuggets/Jazz series because they're so much better defensively. A real display of why coaches value team defense so much.

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1783 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:50 pm

With Harris and Porter contributing the Nuggets are flat better than the Clippers.

Also, I think Doc Rivers is an overrated coach.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1784 » by montestewart » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:54 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:With Harris and Porter contributing the Nuggets are flat better than the Clippers.

Also, I think Doc Rivers is an overrated coach.

You called that, CCJ.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1785 » by Kanyewest » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:23 am

It feels a bit like the 2011 Heat collapse against the Mavericks.

Speaking of the Mavericks, I thought the Nuggets had a chance going into the series simply because Murray was arguably playing as well as Doncic in the 1st round but I abandoned that position when Murray struggled.

Millsap got it going because of Marcus Morris trash talking him. He probably had flash backs of the 2017 series where Markieff talked trash against him and he saved their season in game 5. And Millsap gets to go at Markieff in the next series.

Jokic was the game changer offensively making the correct decision offensively and tonight was above average defensively. The Clippers simply collapsed. Maybe they can pull it together next year but if they don't- Kawhi and George are free agents.

Also I wonder if Kawhi should have just stayed in Toronto and probably at least been in the conference finals.

Paul George/Lou Williams was just awful down the stretch- maybe they pull it together like Lowry later in his career, maybe they don't. At least the Wizards know that Beal will be more or less himself in a game 7, I just hope Washington doesn't waste his entire prime.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1786 » by FAH1223 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:56 am

Absolutely stunning how Kawhi and Paul George had 0 points in the 4th. Combined for 24 points only 3 FTs.

Just a shocking collapse. Nuggets only team in NBA HISTORY to overcome two 3-1 deficits in the same postseason. I think the Bubble has a lot to do with that but they showed they execute well when facing elimination. Their problem is getting close to eliminated in the first place.

Kawhi lamented the Clippers IQ isn't where it needs to be.

Sounds like he took Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Tim Duncan for granted. Also he doesn't have a Kyle Lowry who will get in guy's faces to get them to step up their game.

That's what the Clippers are missing... a PG who can lead and a shot blocker..
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1787 » by nate33 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:07 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Also, I think Doc Rivers is an overrated coach.


This.

It is just inexcusable that Doc couldn't figure out a way to exploit Jokic and Murray defensively in the pick-and-roll. There's a reason why Denver was just the 16th ranked defense this year.

A team like Houston or Dallas would have beaten Denver. I think Miami could beat them too. Possibly the Celtics as well, though they don't have as great of a pick-and-roll attack.

Interestingly, I think Denver matches up nicely with the Lakers. They only lost by 4 in their bubble matchup when Denver played their starters just 25 minutes. Denver lost in overtime to the Lakers in February, but since then, LA lost Avery Bradley and Denver added MPJ.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1788 » by nate33 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:34 pm

I had no idea Tyler Herro was such a good ball handler. The guy is playing like a PG out there. He had 12 points, 11 boards and 9 assists in Game 1!
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1789 » by Frichuela » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:57 pm

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nate33 wrote:I had no idea Tyler Herro was such a good ball handler. The guy is playing like a PG out there. He had 12 points, 11 boards and 9 assists in Game 1!


Amazing draft pick by the Heat. To me, he is more deserving of the all-rookie 1st team than Paschall or his team-mate Nunn.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1790 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:04 pm

Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:I had no idea Tyler Herro was such a good ball handler. The guy is playing like a PG out there. He had 12 points, 11 boards and 9 assists in Game 1!


Amazing draft pick by the Heat. To me, he is more deserving of the all-rookie 1st team than Paschall or his team-mate Nunn.

Paschall & Nunn both started the season extremely strong but tumbled as the months passed. Herro got better during the season. You know what they say about first impressions...!
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1791 » by FAH1223 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:41 pm

payitforward wrote:
Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:I had no idea Tyler Herro was such a good ball handler. The guy is playing like a PG out there. He had 12 points, 11 boards and 9 assists in Game 1!


Amazing draft pick by the Heat. To me, he is more deserving of the all-rookie 1st team than Paschall or his team-mate Nunn.

Paschall & Nunn both started the season extremely strong but tumbled as the months passed. Herro got better during the season. You know what they say about first impressions...!


Don't forget they drafted BAM at the end of the lottery too.

Whatever Pat Riley is paying his scouts... they have earned a raise
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1792 » by LyricalRico » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:56 pm

FAH1223 wrote:That's what the Clippers are missing... a PG who can lead and a shot blocker..


Yep, would love to see them have guys like Chris Paul and DeAndre Jordan...oh wait...
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1793 » by Ruzious » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:With Harris and Porter contributing the Nuggets are flat better than the Clippers.

Also, I think Doc Rivers is an overrated coach.

You were right, as usual. I was sure the Clippers were going to win it.

Now, I have Miami winning it all, so put your money on Boston. To me, Miami is the most versatile team left. They can match up with and beat any type of team.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1794 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:09 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Frichuela wrote:Amazing draft pick by the Heat. To me, he is more deserving of the all-rookie 1st team than Paschall or his team-mate Nunn.

Paschall & Nunn both started the season extremely strong but tumbled as the months passed. Herro got better during the season. You know what they say about first impressions...!

Don't forget they drafted BAM at the end of the lottery too.

Whatever Pat Riley is paying his scouts... they have earned a raise

No way! Give them a raise, & they'll start getting complacent -- fat & happy.

Can't have that. Apparently they find their jobs really easy: better cut their salaries!
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1795 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:22 pm

Ruzious wrote:...To me, Miami is the most versatile team left. They can match up with and beat any type of team.

Great article on their incredible FO work the last few years....

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/zachlowe29895684/nba-playoffs-how-miami-heat-made-incredible-turnaround
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1796 » by Ruzious » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:36 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:That's what the Clippers are missing... a PG who can lead and a shot blocker..


Yep, would love to see them have guys like Chris Paul and DeAndre Jordan...oh wait...

Well, if you think Doc Rivers deserves some blame, this will set you straight. 8-)

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1797 » by Ruzious » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:32 am

And Miami comes from a 13 point half-time deficit to take a 2-0 lead over Bahston. They didn't even need Butler to do much offensively. But he and Crowder are playing killer perimeter defense. And they have Iguodola. That's 3 veteran guys that will play physical D on the perimeter, and they're all tough-minded nasty players. And they have Bam covering the rim and Dragic with his bag of tricks. Robinson, Herro , and Olynyk raining 3's.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1798 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:21 am

Ruzious wrote:And Miami comes from a 13 point half-time deficit to take a 2-0 lead over Bahston. They didn't even need Butler to do much offensively. But he and Crowder are playing killer perimeter defense. And they have Iguodola. That's 3 veteran guys that will play physical D on the perimeter, and they're all tough-minded nasty players. And they have Bam covering the rim and Dragic with his bag of tricks. Robinson, Herro , and Olynyk raining 3's.

It's amazing how that team has come together. A year ago, they won 39 games. But then they added Jimmy Butler, Adebayo had a breakout season, Dragic got healthy, Robinson came out of nowhere, they found two rookie gems in Herro and Nunn, and they traded for Iguadola and Crowder. Now they're legit contenders. Indeed, I think they might be the favorites at this point. They're 10-1 in the playoffs, with their one loss in overtime to a desperate Bucks team facing elimination.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1799 » by TGW » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:31 am

Ruzious wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:That's what the Clippers are missing... a PG who can lead and a shot blocker..


Yep, would love to see them have guys like Chris Paul and DeAndre Jordan...oh wait...

Well, if you think Doc Rivers deserves some blame, this will set you straight. 8-)

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4 

Post#1800 » by payitforward » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:59 pm

Thing is... Doc Rivers had been GM & coach for a long time. Then ownership gave the GM job to Michael Winger in August '17.
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