Wiz @ BOS Drunkards: Fireball Edition | Game 7

[AFM]

Here's the story on Oubre. Sort of.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2017/05/16/kelly-oubre-jr-says-he-asked-not-to-be-told-the-severity-of-his-knee-injury-during-playoffs/

From the article:

During the offseason, Oubre plans on working out with Bradley Beal — the two share a trainer — in addition to taking time off to heal, and practice guitar.

That's good news indeed. Hanlen did an amazing job helping Beal to develop a handle. If he can teach those same abilities to a much taller and slightly more athletic Oubre, look out.

The best news is that he's going to be working on his guitar playing, which was a real concern for me.

He's saving Ted $500 a game by taking over the half time show duties.

[montestewart]

From the article:

That's good news indeed. Hanlen did an amazing job helping Beal to develop a handle. If he can teach those same abilities to a much taller and slightly more athletic Oubre, look out.

The best news is that he's going to be working on his guitar playing, which was a real concern for me.

He's saving Ted $500 a game by taking over the half time show duties.

Troubredor
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[nate33]

The 20/20 hindsight vision in this thread is just laughable.

Game 7 of the most important game in the past 20 years for this team, and everyone wants to second guess the coach's rotation. Yea, play the rookie who can't shoot, or the random 12th man who was lucky he wasn't demoted to d-league.

You armchair coaches crack me up. Team wouldn't have been in a game 7 if it weren't for the rotations. End of story. Now if you want to talk about the quality of the bench, then fine...it sucks overall. Picks and millions of dollars have gone into this bench, and it's still a useless unit. Blame that on the GM. But to split hairs over playing Jennings/Satoransky/Burke is a joke. GTFOH with that nonsense.

Preach!

[NatP4]

The 20/20 hindsight vision in this thread is just laughable.

Game 7 of the most important game in the past 20 years for this team, and everyone wants to second guess the coach's rotation. Yea, play the rookie who can't shoot, or the random 12th man who was lucky he wasn't demoted to d-league.

You armchair coaches crack me up. Team wouldn't have been in a game 7 if it weren't for the rotations. End of story. Now if you want to talk about the quality of the bench, then fine...it sucks overall. Picks and millions of dollars have gone into this bench, and it's still a useless unit. Blame that on the GM. But to split hairs over playing Jennings/Satoransky/Burke is a joke. GTFOH with that nonsense.

Preach!

Uh oh! We got "my signal went out while Brooks went full (Please Use More Appropriate Word)" Nate back

[DaRealHibachi]

The 20/20 hindsight vision in this thread is just laughable.

Game 7 of the most important game in the past 20 years for this team, and everyone wants to second guess the coach's rotation. Yea, play the rookie who can't shoot, or the random 12th man who was lucky he wasn't demoted to d-league.

You armchair coaches crack me up. Team wouldn't have been in a game 7 if it weren't for the rotations. End of story. Now if you want to talk about the quality of the bench, then fine...it sucks overall. Picks and millions of dollars have gone into this bench, and it's still a useless unit. Blame that on the GM. But to split hairs over playing Jennings/Satoransky/Burke is a joke. GTFOH with that nonsense.

Preach!

Uh oh! We got "my signal went out while Brooks went full (Please Use More Appropriate Word)" Nate back

Jesus, you're obnoxious.. On ignore you go..

[DCZards]

The 20/20 hindsight vision in this thread is just laughable.

Game 7 of the most important game in the past 20 years for this team, and everyone wants to second guess the coach's rotation. Yea, play the rookie who can't shoot, or the random 12th man who was lucky he wasn't demoted to d-league.

You armchair coaches crack me up. Team wouldn't have been in a game 7 if it weren't for the rotations. End of story. Now if you want to talk about the quality of the bench, then fine...it sucks overall. Picks and millions of dollars have gone into this bench, and it's still a useless unit. Blame that on the GM. But to split hairs over playing Jennings/Satoransky/Burke is a joke. GTFOH with that nonsense.

It's important to remember that just because you aren't smart, doesn't make smart peoples opinions "20/20 hindsight"

Easily the worst post of the entire season here, the armchair GMs strike everyday.but We even had Celtics fans come in and criticize Brooks' rotation.

Everything this guys posts is laughable

What's laughable is the hypocrisy here because those of you criticizing Brooks for not playing Sato and Mac would have probably been the first ones blasting Brooks if he had played those guys and they had struggled and had that "deer in the headlights" look like there's a good chance they would have.

TGW has it exactly right. Right down to who's to blame--EG and the Zards sorry a** bench.

BTW, I like both Sato and Mac. Sheldon may turn out to be one of EG's best moves. But I don't think either one of them were ready for the bright lights of a critical playoff series.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The 20/20 hindsight vision in this thread is just laughable.

Game 7 of the most important game in the past 20 years for this team, and everyone wants to second guess the coach's rotation. Yea, play the rookie who can't shoot, or the random 12th man who was lucky he wasn't demoted to d-league.

You armchair coaches crack me up. Team wouldn't have been in a game 7 if it weren't for the rotations. End of story. Now if you want to talk about the quality of the bench, then fine...it sucks overall. Picks and millions of dollars have gone into this bench, and it's still a useless unit. Blame that on the GM. But to split hairs over playing Jennings/Satoransky/Burke is a joke. GTFOH with that nonsense.

It's important to remember that just because you aren't smart, doesn't make smart peoples opinions "20/20 hindsight"

Easily the worst post of the entire season here, the armchair GMs strike everyday.but We even had Celtics fans come in and criticize Brooks' rotation.

Everything this guys posts is laughable

What's laughable is the hypocrisy here because those of you criticizing Brooks for not playing Sato and Mac would have probably been the first ones blasting Brooks if he had played those guys and they had struggled and had that "deer in the headlights" look like there's a good chance they would have.

TGW has it exactly right. Right down to who's to blame--EG and the Zards sorry a** bench.

BTW, I like both Sato and Mac. Sheldon may turn out to be one of EG's best moves. But I don't think either one of them were ready for the bright lights of a critical playoff series.

I would not have criticized those guys or Brooks.

He played Mahinmi in half one. Quarter three was predictably a failure and Brooks stayed the course with what was not working.

No. You would have criticized Brooks for playing those guys. Your last sentence probably matches Brooks' thoughts. You would rather lose following conventional thought and traditional approach IMO. I don't like making the same damn mistake over and again.

I am human. I have areas where I am having to admit what I royally suck at. I'm grateful to delegate now and hoping to be more self aware of when I don't know what to do and keep failing at something.

Brooks was terrible in quarter three that last few minutes.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[dandridge 10]

The 20/20 hindsight vision in this thread is just laughable.

Game 7 of the most important game in the past 20 years for this team, and everyone wants to second guess the coach's rotation. Yea, play the rookie who can't shoot, or the random 12th man who was lucky he wasn't demoted to d-league.

You armchair coaches crack me up. Team wouldn't have been in a game 7 if it weren't for the rotations. End of story. Now if you want to talk about the quality of the bench, then fine...it sucks overall. Picks and millions of dollars have gone into this bench, and it's still a useless unit. Blame that on the GM. But to split hairs over playing Jennings/Satoransky/Burke is a joke. GTFOH with that nonsense.

It's important to remember that just because you aren't smart, doesn't make smart peoples opinions "20/20 hindsight"

Easily the worst post of the entire season here, the armchair GMs strike everyday.but We even had Celtics fans come in and criticize Brooks' rotation.

Everything this guys posts is laughable

No. Your post is laughable. You rely on Celtics fans criticizing Brooks rotations for support? Go to the Celtics board for Game 6. They were roasting their coach, who is arguably one of the better coaches in the NBA, for the same crap you are spitting out regarding Brooks. They roasted Stevens for playing Olynk at all, ever! Yeah, the same guy that just sent the Wizards home packing. Like you, they used 20/20 hindsight and the result of a game to argue that their coach was an idiot for playing who they played, when in fact there is no evidence that alternative X player would have produced better results. I wish Stevens listened to those dumb Celtics fans because we might be playing tonight if Olynk was not in during crunch time.

TGW's post is spot-on.

[dandridge 10]

It's important to remember that just because you aren't smart, doesn't make smart peoples opinions "20/20 hindsight"

Easily the worst post of the entire season here, the armchair GMs strike everyday.but We even had Celtics fans come in and criticize Brooks' rotation.

Everything this guys posts is laughable

What's laughable is the hypocrisy here because those of you criticizing Brooks for not playing Sato and Mac would have probably been the first ones blasting Brooks if he had played those guys and they had struggled and had that "deer in the headlights" look like there's a good chance they would have.

TGW has it exactly right. Right down to who's to blame--EG and the Zards sorry a** bench.

BTW, I like both Sato and Mac. Sheldon may turn out to be one of EG's best moves. But I don't think either one of them were ready for the bright lights of a critical playoff series.

I would not have criticized those guys or Brooks.

He played Mahinmi in half one. Quarter three was predictably a failure and Brooks stayed the course with what was not working.

No. You would have criticized Brooks for playing those guys. Your last sentence probably matches Brooks' thoughts. You would rather lose following conventional thought and traditional approach IMO. I don't like making the same damn mistake over and again.

I am human. I have areas where I am having to admit what I royally suck at. I'm grateful to delegate now and hoping to be more self aware of when I don't know what to do and keep failing at something.

Brooks was terrible in quarter three that last few minutes.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

CCJ, There are countless times a player has a bad half only to turn it around in the second half. Wall just displayed that in Game 6. Beal has displayed it many times, as well as Porter and just about every other player on this team. It was Game 7. I don't blame Brooks for relying on players who had the most experience. I know you would always play every single player on the bench, but nobody does that. Again, you see a result with X players and conclude that would have had to be better with Y players. There is just no evidence that would be true. It actually could have been worse with Y players.

[Meliorus]

The way the bench played in the playoffs indicates that our bench performed way, way, way below replacement level. It suggests that if our entire bench was swapped with average replacement level players or even below replacement level players, we would have been a lot closer in our losses and reversed the outcome of multiple games.

The only way you can argue that changing the rotation wouldn't have mattered is that guys like McClellan, Satoransky and Burke are also way, way, way below replacement level. The odds that they would perform as bad as Jennings, Bojan, and Oubre are astronomically low, given the previous data we have on McClellan and Satoransky and just plain probability. I'd argue if we redid the series again with Jennings, Bojan, and Oubre, even they would've played better than they did, however marginal. They're just bad players who performed even worse than their bad ability. The end result is absurdly below replacement level production. It cost us multiple games.

[80sballboy]

The 20/20 hindsight vision in this thread is just laughable.

Game 7 of the most important game in the past 20 years for this team, and everyone wants to second guess the coach's rotation. Yea, play the rookie who can't shoot, or the random 12th man who was lucky he wasn't demoted to d-league.

You armchair coaches crack me up. Team wouldn't have been in a game 7 if it weren't for the rotations. End of story. Now if you want to talk about the quality of the bench, then fine...it sucks overall. Picks and millions of dollars have gone into this bench, and it's still a useless unit. Blame that on the GM. But to split hairs over playing Jennings/Satoransky/Burke is a joke. GTFOH with that nonsense.

It's important to remember that just because you aren't smart, doesn't make smart peoples opinions "20/20 hindsight"

Easily the worst post of the entire season here, the armchair GMs strike everyday.but We even had Celtics fans come in and criticize Brooks' rotation.

Everything this guys posts is laughable

No. Your post is laughable. You rely on Celtics fans criticizing Brooks rotations for support? Go to the Celtics board for Game 6. They were roasting their coach, who is arguably one of the better coaches in the NBA, for the same crap you are spitting out regarding Brooks. They roasted Stevens for playing Olynk at all, ever! Yeah, the same guy that just sent the Wizards home packing. Like you, they used 20/20 hindsight and the result of a game to argue that their coach was an idiot for playing who they played, when in fact there is no evidence that alternative X player would have produced better results. I wish Stevens listened to those dumb Celtics fans because we might be playing tonight if Olynk was not in during crunch time.

TGW's post is spot-on.

I think Brooks did a nice job this year and maybe he had no choice if Oubre was hurt, but when you preach defense all year and you put out a lineup of Smith, Mahinmi and Bogdanovich late in the third quarter, you deserve criticism. The lack of options up front was EG's fault but you have to be creative.

[NatP4]

It's important to remember that just because you aren't smart, doesn't make smart peoples opinions "20/20 hindsight"

Easily the worst post of the entire season here, the armchair GMs strike everyday.but We even had Celtics fans come in and criticize Brooks' rotation.

Everything this guys posts is laughable

No. Your post is laughable. You rely on Celtics fans criticizing Brooks rotations for support? Go to the Celtics board for Game 6. They were roasting their coach, who is arguably one of the better coaches in the NBA, for the same crap you are spitting out regarding Brooks. They roasted Stevens for playing Olynk at all, ever! Yeah, the same guy that just sent the Wizards home packing. Like you, they used 20/20 hindsight and the result of a game to argue that their coach was an idiot for playing who they played, when in fact there is no evidence that alternative X player would have produced better results. I wish Stevens listened to those dumb Celtics fans because we might be playing tonight if Olynk was not in during crunch time.

TGW's post is spot-on.

I think Brooks did a nice job this year and maybe he had no choice if Oubre was hurt, but when you preach defense all year and you put out a lineup of Smith, Mahinmi and Bogdanovich late in the third quarter, you deserve criticism. The lack of options up front was EG's fault but you have to be creative.

it's as simple as this post right here, no-one was roasting brooks for not playing Sheldon Mcclelan, it was that pathetic stretch in the 3rd quarter that cost them the entire season. no 20/20 hindsight, it was stupid the second he put smith in.

[NatP4]

The way the bench played in the playoffs indicates that our bench performed way, way, way below replacement level. It suggests that if our entire bench was swapped with average replacement level players or even below replacement level players, we would have been a lot closer in our losses and reversed the outcome of multiple games.

The only way you can argue that changing the rotation wouldn't have mattered is that guys like McClellan, Satoransky and Burke are also way, way, way below replacement level. The odds that they would perform as bad as Jennings, Bojan, and Oubre are astronomically low, given the previous data we have on McClellan and Satoransky and just plain probability. I'd argue if we redid the series again with Jennings, Bojan, and Oubre, even they would've played better than they did, however marginal. They're just bad players who performed even worse than their bad ability. The end result is absurdly below replacement level production. It cost us multiple games.

I never criticized brooks for this, but if Satoransky Mac and Oubre played instead of Jennings Bojan Smith, we would be playing the Cavs tonight. There is no doubt in my mind.

Brooks not only played the wrong guys, he misused ALL of them. played jennings and wall together all year long which was idiotic, he used bojan as a shooting guard when everyone knew he couldn't guard small players at all or handle the ball, and he used jason smith at power forward which turns him into a non nba player.

If anyone can honestly sit there and say that it's nitpicking or 20/20 hindsight or that "his rotations were the reason we got to a game 7" (which is the dumbest thing i have ever read on here) then you are simply an idiot that is pushing a stupid narrative about how everything is Erne Grunfelds fault.

I mean get serious, everyone on here deflects wall criticism/ brooks criticism and pushes everything onto Ernie and Ted lol. there isn't a scenario that exists where the narrative would be anything different after losing in the playoffs.

hell, if wall hits some of those 0-12 shots and plays any defense and brooks doesn't go full (Please Use More Appropriate Word) late in the 3rd, we are sitting in the conference finals and Ernie still wouldn't get any credit at all lol.

[NatP4]

like, OKC fans all agree that brooks' flaws were his idiotic rotations and his terrible simple minded iso offense.

but this entire board denies all of those things, its so pathetic.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What's laughable is the hypocrisy here because those of you criticizing Brooks for not playing Sato and Mac would have probably been the first ones blasting Brooks if he had played those guys and they had struggled and had that "deer in the headlights" look like there's a good chance they would have.

TGW has it exactly right. Right down to who's to blame--EG and the Zards sorry a** bench.

BTW, I like both Sato and Mac. Sheldon may turn out to be one of EG's best moves. But I don't think either one of them were ready for the bright lights of a critical playoff series.

I would not have criticized those guys or Brooks.

He played Mahinmi in half one. Quarter three was predictably a failure and Brooks stayed the course with what was not working.

No. You would have criticized Brooks for playing those guys. Your last sentence probably matches Brooks' thoughts. You would rather lose following conventional thought and traditional approach IMO. I don't like making the same damn mistake over and again.

I am human. I have areas where I am having to admit what I royally suck at. I'm grateful to delegate now and hoping to be more self aware of when I don't know what to do and keep failing at something.

Brooks was terrible in quarter three that last few minutes.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

CCJ, There are countless times a player has a bad half only to turn it around in the second half. Wall just displayed that in Game 6. Beal has displayed it many times, as well as Porter and just about every other player on this team. It was Game 7. I don't blame Brooks for relying on players who had the most experience. I know you would always play every single player on the bench, but nobody does that. Again, you see a result with X players and conclude that would have had to be better with Y players. There is just no evidence that would be true. It actually could have been worse with Y players.

Of course there is no evidence. Dudes didn't get a chance!

What really bothered me was Mahinmi had a couple of fouls called against him in the third. The second looked bogus to me--that time Thomas initiated a rip move. Flailing away a shot attempt after diving into Mahinmi. If memory serves me Brooks left Mahinmi on the court. Boston had not yet overtaken Washington but the lead was gone. What Brooks did next pretty much sealed the deal.

The one thing to avoid was a Boston run. IMO Brooks predictably subbing personnel by set pattern and not by situational awareness and feel did Washington in. It's like telegraphing a punch. Like showing one's hand of cards. He put a dysfunctional shift, to coin a hockey phrase, on the court.

Mahinmi+Smith+Bogdanovic while Boston had their death lineup on the court???

Come on, man.

Those two threes should have happened! Jason Smith minus six that minute is entirely on Coach Brooks in my mind, any way.

Keep saying TGW is on point. Keep supporting your views. Keep disagreeing with me. I've seen this before.

Coach Saunders didn't have Wall, Beal, or Porter. But he sure did what a lot of coaching does. He sure did what Brooks did game seven.

Dude failed to adapt.

I've messed up the same way in many areas of my life. Just saying my mind...

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It's important to remember that just because you aren't smart, doesn't make smart peoples opinions "20/20 hindsight"

Easily the worst post of the entire season here, the armchair GMs strike everyday.but We even had Celtics fans come in and criticize Brooks' rotation.

Everything this guys posts is laughable

No. Your post is laughable. You rely on Celtics fans criticizing Brooks rotations for support? Go to the Celtics board for Game 6. They were roasting their coach, who is arguably one of the better coaches in the NBA, for the same crap you are spitting out regarding Brooks. They roasted Stevens for playing Olynk at all, ever! Yeah, the same guy that just sent the Wizards home packing. Like you, they used 20/20 hindsight and the result of a game to argue that their coach was an idiot for playing who they played, when in fact there is no evidence that alternative X player would have produced better results. I wish Stevens listened to those dumb Celtics fans because we might be playing tonight if Olynk was not in during crunch time.

TGW's post is spot-on.

I think Brooks did a nice job this year and maybe he had no choice if Oubre was hurt, but when you preach defense all year and you put out a lineup of Smith, Mahinmi and Bogdanovich late in the third quarter, you deserve criticism. The lack of options up front was EG's fault but you have to be creative.

I also think Brooks did a nice job this year.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

No. Your post is laughable. You rely on Celtics fans criticizing Brooks rotations for support? Go to the Celtics board for Game 6. They were roasting their coach, who is arguably one of the better coaches in the NBA, for the same crap you are spitting out regarding Brooks. They roasted Stevens for playing Olynk at all, ever! Yeah, the same guy that just sent the Wizards home packing. Like you, they used 20/20 hindsight and the result of a game to argue that their coach was an idiot for playing who they played, when in fact there is no evidence that alternative X player would have produced better results. I wish Stevens listened to those dumb Celtics fans because we might be playing tonight if Olynk was not in during crunch time.

TGW's post is spot-on.

I think Brooks did a nice job this year and maybe he had no choice if Oubre was hurt, but when you preach defense all year and you put out a lineup of Smith, Mahinmi and Bogdanovich late in the third quarter, you deserve criticism. The lack of options up front was EG's fault but you have to be creative.

it's as simple as this post right here, no-one was roasting brooks for not playing Sheldon Mcclelan, it was that pathetic stretch in the 3rd quarter that cost them the entire season. no 20/20 hindsight, it was stupid the second he put smith in.

Amen.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[dandridge 10]

It is 20/20 hindsight. How do you know any other combination would have done better? Besides, you guys keep focusing on that small stretch of time. The game is 48 minutes. You blame the loss on 2-3 minutes of time and discount everything that occurred before and after that time. There was plenty of time for the Wizards to come back and win and they couldn't get it done because the STARTERS could not defend. Even IF there was an argument that the line-up in the late third quarter was a mistake, there are far better reasons for the loss...our sucky bench and the lack of commitment on the defensive end.

[dandridge 10]

I would not have criticized those guys or Brooks.

He played Mahinmi in half one. Quarter three was predictably a failure and Brooks stayed the course with what was not working.

No. You would have criticized Brooks for playing those guys. Your last sentence probably matches Brooks' thoughts. You would rather lose following conventional thought and traditional approach IMO. I don't like making the same damn mistake over and again.

I am human. I have areas where I am having to admit what I royally suck at. I'm grateful to delegate now and hoping to be more self aware of when I don't know what to do and keep failing at something.

Brooks was terrible in quarter three that last few minutes.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

CCJ, There are countless times a player has a bad half only to turn it around in the second half. Wall just displayed that in Game 6. Beal has displayed it many times, as well as Porter and just about every other player on this team. It was Game 7. I don't blame Brooks for relying on players who had the most experience. I know you would always play every single player on the bench, but nobody does that. Again, you see a result with X players and conclude that would have had to be better with Y players. There is just no evidence that would be true. It actually could have been worse with Y players.

Of course there is no evidence. Dudes didn't get a chance!

What really bothered me was Mahinmi had a couple of fouls called against him in the third. The second looked bogus to me--that time Thomas initiated a rip move. Flailing away a shot attempt after diving into Mahinmi. If memory serves me Brooks left Mahinmi on the court. Boston had not yet overtaken Washington but the lead was gone. What Brooks did next pretty much sealed the deal.

The one thing to avoid was a Boston run. IMO Brooks predictably subbing personnel by set pattern and not by situational awareness and feel did Washington in. It's like telegraphing a punch. Like showing one's hand of cards. He put a dysfunctional shift, to coin a hockey phrase, on the court.

Mahinmi+Smith+Bogdanovic while Boston had their death lineup on the court???

Come on, man.

Those two threes should have happened! Jason Smith minus six that minute is entirely on Coach Brooks in my mind, any way.

Keep saying TGW is on point. Keep supporting your views. Keep disagreeing with me. I've seen this before.

Coach Saunders didn't have Wall, Beal, or Porter. But he sure did what a lot of coaching does. He sure did what Brooks did game seven.

Dude failed to adapt.

I've messed up the same way in many areas of my life. Just saying my mind...

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

I'll keep supporting my views CCJ. I know you will keep supporting your views that you could do a better job than any coach the Wizards have ever had. I know you will continue to use 20/20 hindsight to criticize rotations. I know you will continue to assert players that were not given a chance here will blow up elsewhere. I have seen that before too

[Kanyewest]

Why it wasn't 20-20 hindsight
- Ian Mahinmi should have been benched in the 2nd half based on his 1st half performance, especially on the defensive end.
- Jason Smith at the 4 has been an awful defender for most of this season.
- John Wall has routinely run out of gas when playing 40+ minutes (see game 2)
- People have been questioning the Jennings/Wall combo since game 1 of the Atlanta series.

At the end of the day though, no coach is going to be perfect. I bet there were some things which Stevens did which are questionable too (for instance continuing to start Amir Johnson). It isn't the only reason Washington.