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This is a bit redundant to the Draft thread but...

Wondering which PG in the 2nd round you liked the best.

And

Odds of the Wizards grabbing an addition 2nd round pick - Ted up for it or no way?

Monte Morris

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Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Monte Morris

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Agreed, with Goss and Mason right behind.

I like the toughness and leadership that Williams-Goss displayed during the NCAA tournament. Can't say I've seen much of Morris. He and Williams-Goss are about the same height, although Williams-Goss is heavier and looks to be stronger.

Numbers suggest Morris is a better 3pt shooter than Williams-Goss, which is important.

Anyone think that Ted will pony up for a 2nd 2nd?

DCZards wrote:I like the toughness and leadership that Williams-Goss displayed during the NCAA tournament. Can't say I've seen much of Morris. He and Williams-Goss are about the same height, although Williams-Goss is heavier and looks to be stronger.

Numbers suggest Morris is a better 3pt shooter than Williams-Goss, which is important.

Difference in 3-point shooting % was insignificant as Seniors. But Williams-Goss went up & down in that stat from year to year; Morris was more consistent.

Then again, Williams-Goss shot a higher 2-pt. % this year -- also important. In all, Williams-Goss was the more efficient & higher scorer this year. But the difference was small.

But, if you compare the 2 players' shooting in previous years, Morris was more consistent in every way. Ditto the rest of his numbers. Both pretty good prospects -- unbelievably good to be available in the 50s of the draft!

The fact that the Wizards continue to take long, hard looks at Melo Trimble and Frank Mason III take away all hope for a successful draft.

dckingsfan wrote:Anyone think that Ted will pony up for a 2nd 2nd?

He should. It'd be a smart move.

If he could fenangle a 1st out of Portland without giving up much, that'd be even better.

Meliorus wrote:The fact that the Wizards continue to take long, hard looks at Melo Trimble and Frank Mason III take away all hope for a successful draft.

Maybe not all hope, but it's certainly not a good sign. To me, both Morris & Williams-Goss look like better prospects than Mason. Melo Trimble has no chance whatever of being even a marginal NBA player.

But... he will put butts in the seats -- what Ted cares about.

We need 4 R2 picks not 1 or 2.

Otherwise we'll have to fill out our roster with proven trash veterans on 1-year contracts. Just to get to 15 players. R2 guys will at least bring the potential that a couple of them turn out to be good NBA players rather than trash. I.e. they have at least the potential to enhance the team, be trade assets, etc.

payitforward wrote:

Meliorus wrote:The fact that the Wizards continue to take long, hard looks at Melo Trimble and Frank Mason III take away all hope for a successful draft.

Maybe not all hope, but it's certainly not a good sign. To me, both Morris & Williams-Goss look like better prospects than Mason. Melo Trimble has no chance whatever of being even a marginal NBA player.

But... he will put butts in the seats -- what Ted cares about.

Ted is completely naive if he thinks that just because the Wiz have Melo Trimble as their 16th player that Terps fans will come out to see a player who looks good in layup drills (not really, he can barely dunk).

payitforward wrote:We need 4 R2 picks not 1 or 2.

Otherwise we'll have to fill out our roster with proven trash veterans on 1-year contracts. Just to get to 15 players. R2 guys will at least bring the potential that a couple of them turn out to be good NBA players rather than trash. I.e. they have at least the potential to enhance the team, be trade assets, etc.

I dont get this line of thinking... We are not the Suns. We are a top 3 team in the east that need a stronger bench. Vets line up for those opportunities. Nene, Zaza, David West, Felton, Bass, Speights, McGee, Lawson, Montiejunas...
These are all players that took very little money for a chance to win/get minutes last year.

This year, most of those same players (Besides Speights) will do the same thing... along with guys like Jeff Green, Randolph, Splitter, Meeks, Korver, Tony Allen, Sefolosha, etc.

payitforward wrote:

Meliorus wrote:The fact that the Wizards continue to take long, hard looks at Melo Trimble and Frank Mason III take away all hope for a successful draft.

Maybe not all hope, but it's certainly not a good sign. To me, both Morris & Williams-Goss look like better prospects than Mason. Melo Trimble has no chance whatever of being even a marginal NBA player.

But... he will put butts in the seats -- what Ted cares about.

What puts butts in the seats is "winning" and I'm fairly certain Ted has learned that lesson after last season. The crowds during the 17-game home winning streak were awesome...a ton of energy and enthusiasm. Best I've seen (other than playoff games) during my 20 plus years as a Zards ticket plan holder.

The Zards desperately need a solid backup PG and Melo is clearly not the answer...with or without his local connections.

DCZards wrote:

payitforward wrote:

Meliorus wrote:The fact that the Wizards continue to take long, hard looks at Melo Trimble and Frank Mason III take away all hope for a successful draft.

Maybe not all hope, but it's certainly not a good sign. To me, both Morris & Williams-Goss look like better prospects than Mason. Melo Trimble has no chance whatever of being even a marginal NBA player.

But... he will put butts in the seats -- what Ted cares about.

What puts butts in the seats is "winning" and I'm fairly certain Ted has learned that lesson after last season. The crowds during the 17-game home winning streak were awesome...a ton of energy and enthusiasm. Best I've seen (other than playoff games) during my 20 plus years as a Zards ticket plan holder.

The Zards desperately need a solid backup PG and Melo is clearly not the answer...with or without his local connections.

“I think that fans [believe] in the win-now [mind-set], and if you don’t win now, if you lose two games in a row, make a change,” Leonsis said. “And they should be. It’s fantastic. It generates click streams."

Ups and downs drive clicks. Expect 49 win seasons from here on out. We the new Toronto.

pcbothwel wrote:

payitforward wrote:We need 4 R2 picks not 1 or 2.

Otherwise we'll have to fill out our roster with proven trash veterans on 1-year contracts. Just to get to 15 players. R2 guys will at least bring the potential that a couple of them turn out to be good NBA players rather than trash. I.e. they have at least the potential to enhance the team, be trade assets, etc.

I dont get this line of thinking... We are not the Suns. We are a top 3 team in the east that need a stronger bench. Vets line up for those opportunities. Nene, Zaza, David West, Felton, Bass, Speights, McGee, Lawson, Montiejunas...
These are all players that took very little money for a chance to win/get minutes last year.

This year, most of those same players (Besides Speights) will do the same thing... along with guys like Jeff Green, Randolph, Splitter, Meeks, Korver, Tony Allen, Sefolosha, etc.

Once again... if I'm right (nate??) we will have $5-7m -- & no more! -- to add 4 players. Lets hope it's $7m, ok? But it might be $5m. How you gonna get 4 players for that who give us a stronger bench?

So... don't get me wrong: if you know a way to add Zach Randolph, Tiago Splitter, Tony Allen & Kyle Korver for a total of $5-7m -- hey, I'm with you all the way!

But, in fact, Zaza & Nene each signed last year for $3m, for example. We can't afford them. Try & absorb that fact, annoying as it is.

Raymond Felton signed a veteran minimum contract because that was the offer he got. Now he's a FA. Did he help build the future of the LA Clippers? Obviously not.

Nor did the Clippers sign 3 veteran minimum players, because those guys would help them. They signed them, because it was all they could afford. Last year, they had $103m tied up in 7 guys. Their 6 least expensive guys cost a total of $6m.

Why? Because they wanted to strengthen their team with them? No, their salary overload meant they could not really hope to improve by adding guys. They added Speights, Felton, Bass & Anderson, because they are getting ready to rebuild.

If we keep building the bottom of the squad by signing short-term bandaids, we'll be rebuilding soon too. We need to build the future of the Wizards.

Let me make it clear another way: what was our record after we added Bogdanovic? What about after we added Jennings? We aren't in a position to contend for anything by counting only on our core & bottom of the barrel guys. We aren't going to get better by replacing Jennings w/ Raymond Felton.

But we might improve the future of this team if one of those R2 PGs turns out to be a good NBA player -- plus we'd have him on a cheap, long-term contract. This is a very deep R2. I'm not saying we'll draft 4 guys all as good as, say, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas, Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Nikola Jokic, & Malcolm Brogden.

But we might get guys like Jon Leuer, E'twaun Moore, Davis Bertans, Lavoy Allen, Khris Middleton, Will Barton, Kyle O'Quinn, Alex Abrines, Isaiah Canaan, Jeff Withey, Mike Muscala, James Ennis, Jerami Grant, Glenn Robinson, Dwight Powell, Jordan Clarkson, Montrezl Harrell, Seth Curry, Jordan Mickey, Richaun Holmes, Josh Richardson, Ivica Zubic, Cheick Diallo, Tyler Ulis, Patrick McCaw, & about a dozen other guys from the last few years I won't bother to type in.

In short, give me Tyler Ulis, or even Klay Felder for his future, not Raymond Felton. Give me Holmes not Speights. Give me McCaw not Sefolosha.

&, for sure, give me Josh Hart not Bogdanovic or Thornton or Burke or Jennings. Hart's a risk; those guys are known bums.

DCZards wrote:

payitforward wrote:

Meliorus wrote:The fact that the Wizards continue to take long, hard looks at Melo Trimble and Frank Mason III take away all hope for a successful draft.

Maybe not all hope, but it's certainly not a good sign. To me, both Morris & Williams-Goss look like better prospects than Mason. Melo Trimble has no chance whatever of being even a marginal NBA player.

But... he will put butts in the seats -- what Ted cares about.

What puts butts in the seats is "winning" and I'm fairly certain Ted has learned that lesson after last season. The crowds during the 17-game home winning streak were awesome...a ton of energy and enthusiasm. Best I've seen (other than playoff games) during my 20 plus years as a Zards ticket plan holder.

The Zards desperately need a solid backup PG and Melo is clearly not the answer...with or without his local connections.

Are you disagreeing with me? If so, in what particular?

I'd much prefer Morris or Williams-Goss to Trimble, but Trimble has the advantage of being a Terp.

If you think Ted knows enough about basketball to distinguish between one late R2 guard & another -- as players -- you are dreaming.

Meliorus wrote:

DCZards wrote:

payitforward wrote: Maybe not all hope, but it's certainly not a good sign. To me, both Morris & Williams-Goss look like better prospects than Mason. Melo Trimble has no chance whatever of being even a marginal NBA player.

But... he will put butts in the seats -- what Ted cares about.

What puts butts in the seats is "winning" and I'm fairly certain Ted has learned that lesson after last season. The crowds during the 17-game home winning streak were awesome...a ton of energy and enthusiasm. Best I've seen (other than playoff games) during my 20 plus years as a Zards ticket plan holder.

The Zards desperately need a solid backup PG and Melo is clearly not the answer...with or without his local connections.

“I think that fans [believe] in the win-now [mind-set], and if you don’t win now, if you lose two games in a row, make a change,” Leonsis said. “And they should be. It’s fantastic. It generates click streams."

Ups and downs drive clicks. Expect 49 win seasons from here on out. We the new Toronto.

QED.

Except Toronto has a better GM.

payitforward wrote:

DCZards wrote:

payitforward wrote: Maybe not all hope, but it's certainly not a good sign. To me, both Morris & Williams-Goss look like better prospects than Mason. Melo Trimble has no chance whatever of being even a marginal NBA player.

But... he will put butts in the seats -- what Ted cares about.

What puts butts in the seats is "winning" and I'm fairly certain Ted has learned that lesson after last season. The crowds during the 17-game home winning streak were awesome...a ton of energy and enthusiasm. Best I've seen (other than playoff games) during my 20 plus years as a Zards ticket plan holder.

The Zards desperately need a solid backup PG and Melo is clearly not the answer...with or without his local connections.

Are you disagreeing with me? If so, in what particular?

I'd much prefer Morris or Williams-Goss to Trimble, but Trimble has the advantage of being a Terp.

If you think Ted knows enough about basketball to distinguish between one late R2 guard & another -- as players -- you are dreaming.

Not disagreeing with you about Trimble.

Not sure it matters what Ted knows or doesn't know about R2 players since it's not really his job to scout and assess talent...or distinguish between them. Although, Ted may know more about basketball than you're giving him credit for.

Meliorus wrote:The fact that the Wizards continue to take long, hard looks at Melo Trimble and Frank Mason III take away all hope for a successful draft.

I can't tell if you'd be disappointed in either of them or if you're simply against reaching for Melo.

I haven't ever really focused on Mason but his stats look good. I know he's short...is that his biggest negative?

payitforward wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:

payitforward wrote:We need 4 R2 picks not 1 or 2.

Otherwise we'll have to fill out our roster with proven trash veterans on 1-year contracts. Just to get to 15 players. R2 guys will at least bring the potential that a couple of them turn out to be good NBA players rather than trash. I.e. they have at least the potential to enhance the team, be trade assets, etc.

I dont get this line of thinking... We are not the Suns. We are a top 3 team in the east that need a stronger bench. Vets line up for those opportunities. Nene, Zaza, David West, Felton, Bass, Speights, McGee, Lawson, Montiejunas...
These are all players that took very little money for a chance to win/get minutes last year.

This year, most of those same players (Besides Speights) will do the same thing... along with guys like Jeff Green, Randolph, Splitter, Meeks, Korver, Tony Allen, Sefolosha, etc.

Once again... if I'm right (nate??) we will have $5-7m -- & no more! -- to add 4 players. Lets hope it's $7m, ok? But it might be $5m. How you gonna get 4 players for that who give us a stronger bench?

So... don't get me wrong: if you know a way to add Zach Randolph, Tiago Splitter, Tony Allen & Kyle Korver for a total of $5-7m -- hey, I'm with you all the way!

But, in fact, Zaza & Nene each signed last year for $3m, for example. We can't afford them. Try & absorb that fact, annoying as it is.

Raymond Felton signed a veteran minimum contract because that was the offer he got. Now he's a FA. Did he help build the future of the LA Clippers? Obviously not.

Nor did the Clippers sign 3 veteran minimum players, because those guys would help them. They signed them, because it was all they could afford. Last year, they had $103m tied up in 7 guys. Their 6 least expensive guys cost a total of $6m.

Why? Because they wanted to strengthen their team with them? No, their salary overload meant they could not really hope to improve by adding guys. They added Speights, Felton, Bass & Anderson, because they are getting ready to rebuild.

If we keep building the bottom of the squad by signing short-term bandaids, we'll be rebuilding soon too. We need to build the future of the Wizards.

Let me make it clear another way: what was our record after we added Bogdanovic? What about after we added Jennings? We aren't in a position to contend for anything by counting only on our core & bottom of the barrel guys. We aren't going to get better by replacing Jennings w/ Raymond Felton.

But we might improve the future of this team if one of those R2 PGs turns out to be a good NBA player -- plus we'd have him on a cheap, long-term contract. This is a very deep R2. I'm not saying we'll draft 4 guys all as good as, say, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas, Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Nikola Jokic, & Malcolm Brogden.

But we might get guys like Jon Leuer, E'twaun Moore, Davis Bertans, Lavoy Allen, Khris Middleton, Will Barton, Kyle O'Quinn, Alex Abrines, Isaiah Canaan, Jeff Withey, Mike Muscala, James Ennis, Jerami Grant, Glenn Robinson, Dwight Powell, Jordan Clarkson, Montrezl Harrell, Seth Curry, Jordan Mickey, Richaun Holmes, Josh Richardson, Ivica Zubic, Cheick Diallo, Tyler Ulis, Patrick McCaw, & about a dozen other guys from the last few years I won't bother to type in.

In short, give me Tyler Ulis, or even Klay Felder for his future, not Raymond Felton. Give me Holmes not Speights. Give me McCaw not Sefolosha.

&, for sure, give me Josh Hart not Bogdanovic or Thornton or Burke or Jennings. Hart's a risk; those guys are known bums.

So question - let's say they need to spend ~$7M on a player that can really help us. So that would put us ~ $4M over the cap. Double that and you $4M and you have spent ~$11M. How many second round picks could you get for $11M? If you could add 2 picks to our current one - you would have the 3 open roster spots filled. If you could get a 4th - you take to PGs and keep the one that looks like they have the best chance to back up Wall.

Okay - not sure if the math is accurate - but I agree - some second round picks that could make it are better than vets that "might" help.