Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You are not being objective. I admit I was not thinking about Cousins having an expiring deal. That means I was wrong in my no-brainer assessment.

Valuing Beal over Cousins is absurd in my opinion.

Valuing Porter over Cousins is wrong, too. Ludicrous.

How many times have either bill or Porter been NBA player of the week or All Stars? When have either Beal or Porter been ranked high in value over replacement player?



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

That's a no-brainer.

It is a good deal for both teams.

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Nope, not for me...swap Oubre for Morris and it's a better trade.
We shouldn't be entertaining trading Oubre and a pick without dumping Mahinmi in the process (I know he's playing better, but still...)

Agreed. That trade is a no go. It's not going to happen given our luxtax issues. If we acquire Cousins, we must unload both Gortat and Mahinmi. Either that, or Porter or Beal must be part of the outgoing package.

Frankly, I'm not that enthusiastic about going after Cousins. I liked the idea back when he was a disgruntled headcase, but now that he is playing pretty well, there isn't a discount. Giving up both Oubre and a 1st is too rich for my blood.

I think you over value Kelly Oubre.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How about this one:

Ian Mahinmi and Markieff Morris to OKC for Carmelo Anthony?

Ian is an injury-plagued player who is destined to disappoint. Morrison is a guy that the Wizards probably are better off without.

I have no love for Carmelo Anthony but something tells me he would be better than Morris.

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Anthony isn't a good player any more, but I'd do that trade for sure! It helps a lot with our problem 2 years from now when Wall's big $$ kick in -- by getting Mahinmi off the roster.

Plus, we don't have to give away a pick! &, Anthony is better than Morris, yes.

He shoots too much of course -- solution is to bring him off the bench for 20 minutes a game & leave it at that.

Bingo.

This gets rid of Ian Mahinmi contract without giving up a first!

This replaces Morris with a slightly better player.

And the real winner is that this deal sends Carmelo Anthony into 6th man role immediately. He knows he's not that good anymore. The Wizards have a very effective line up with Oubre starting at small forward and Porter moving to power forward.

A lot of people might disagree but this is a good idea.

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[Ruzious]

Nope, not for me...swap Oubre for Morris and it's a better trade.
We shouldn't be entertaining trading Oubre and a pick without dumping Mahinmi in the process (I know he's playing better, but still...)

Agreed. That trade is a no go. It's not going to happen given our luxtax issues. If we acquire Cousins, we must unload both Gortat and Mahinmi. Either that, or Porter or Beal must be part of the outgoing package.

Frankly, I'm not that enthusiastic about going after Cousins. I liked the idea back when he was a disgruntled headcase, but now that he is playing pretty well, there isn't a discount. Giving up both Oubre and a 1st is too rich for my blood.

I think you over value Kelly Oubre.

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Oubre still hasn't proven he can play at a high level with enough consistency. I wouldn't assume he won't be traded. If we do trade our first rounder, maybe the thing to do is to package the first rounder with Oubre to get a top 10 pick. The 2018 draft is going to be real good in the top 10. I'd love to get one of the Bridges' - particularly Mikal from Villanova. He's even better defensively than Oubre, and he's much better offensively. Miles Bridges is awfully good, too.

[80sballboy]

Agree about throwing in Mahinmi as the only way I'd do that deal with Boogie. Yes, he won't sign here next year even for a discount to play with Wall.

[80sballboy]

Agreed. That trade is a no go. It's not going to happen given our luxtax issues. If we acquire Cousins, we must unload both Gortat and Mahinmi. Either that, or Porter or Beal must be part of the outgoing package.

Frankly, I'm not that enthusiastic about going after Cousins. I liked the idea back when he was a disgruntled headcase, but now that he is playing pretty well, there isn't a discount. Giving up both Oubre and a 1st is too rich for my blood.

I think you over value Kelly Oubre.

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Oubre still hasn't proven he can play at a high level with enough consistency. I wouldn't assume he won't be traded. If we do trade our first rounder, maybe the thing to do is to package the first rounder with Oubre to get a top 10 pick. The 2018 draft is going to be real good in the top 10. I'd love to get one of the Bridges' - particularly Mikal from Villanova. He's even better defensively than Oubre, and he's much better offensively. Miles Bridges is awfully good, too.

Love Miles Bridges (6-7, 230 with a 7-foot wingspan) and he will have two seasons of college. If you can get a better version of Oubre, why would you trade for him (getting a mid-to-late first) unless you are loaded at the 3?

[TGW]

Agree about throwing in Mahinmi as the only way I'd do that deal with Boogie. Yes, he won't sign here next year even for a discount to play with Wall.

This team will lose in perpetuity with Cousins on the team. He's a loser....period. Doesn't make his team better, doesn't make his teammates better, and plays lousy defense. The fact that he plays with a top 5 player in the league, and the team still struggles says volumes.

[Wiz99]

Cousins...plays lousy defense.

Not this year, whether you compare Cousins to the top tier of defenders at C (he's 13th) or especially vs what we have now (Gortat and Mahinmi don't even break the top 40). http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9

[queridiculo]

What are the chances the Wizards aren't done with their pursuit of Paul George?

Washington was luke warm on extending Porter at the max and while they said all the right things about retaining him, it's obvious that's not where they saw his value.

Grunfeld likes the big names and you know he must be pissed his masterplan of running the East isn't coming to fruition. Washington inquired about George before and it's no secret that Wall wants him here.

For the Thunder things aren't looking good. The team isn't coming together the way they execpted it to and the Western Conference is competitive enough that there will be a real chance they'll be on the outside looking in, the risk of losing George is real.

Wizards: Porter, Morris
Thunder: George, Patterson, Grant, Collison

Trade 2

Wizards sacrifice a first round pick to get out of Mahinmi's contract a year earlier and get under the luxury tax threshold for this year.

Wizards: Mahinmi, Smith, 2018 1st
Bulls: Robin Lopez

[Dark Faze]

I've soured on George

We need an all-star caliber option at C more than anything else at this point. I'd trade Otto for Cousins in a heartbeat but the Pels aren't going to put him on the market.

Our best shot at a huge upgrade at C is through sheer luck (or skillful drafting) of the position in the draft.

In other words--everything I've been saying since the beginning of the season--take a step back now to take a step forward later. Move our soon to be expiring bigs for anything including second rounders, watch our own pick improve as a result and pray we get an elite big man out of it

[nate33]

What are the chances the Wizards aren't done with their pursuit of Paul George?

Washington was luke warm on extending Porter at the max and while they said all the right things about retaining him, it's obvious that's not where they saw his value.

Grunfeld likes the big names and you know he must be pissed his masterplan of running the East isn't coming to fruition. Washington inquired about George before and it's no secret that Wall wants him here.

For the Thunder things aren't looking good. The team isn't coming together the way they execpted it to and the Western Conference is competitive enough that there will be a real chance they'll be on the outside looking in, the risk of losing George is real.

Wizards: Porter, Morris
Thunder: George, Patterson, Grant, Collison

Trade 2

Wizards sacrifice a first round pick to get out of Mahinmi's contract a year earlier and get under the luxury tax threshold for this year.

Wizards: Mahinmi, Smith, 2018 1st
Bulls: Robin Lopez

That first trade is terrible because Paul George is a soon-to-be free agent who wants to play in LA. It's basically a salary dump of Porter. Porter has had a bad stretch of games, but he is still an exceptional player who is very young and has had a track record of consistent improvement. I would not be looking to dump him.

That second trade looks like an Ernie Grunfeld special. He can brag about "upgrading" our backup center position when it's really just a move to erase his past mistakes.

[queridiculo]

Gauging George's likelihood of resigning is obviously key but it seems to me that he's far more interested in winning than being part of a rebuilding situation in Los Angeles.

I wouldn't trade Porter either, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Grunfeld go that route.

Worst comes to worst, is there any chance that the Wizards could clear enough room to sign Cousins?

[nate33]

Our best shot at a huge upgrade at C is through sheer luck (or skillful drafting) of the position in the draft.

In other words--everything I've been saying since the beginning of the season--take a step back now to take a step forward later. Move our soon to be expiring bigs for anything including second rounders, watch our own pick improve as a result and pray we get an elite big man out of it

Agreed. If you look at recent draft history, many of the league's best centers were obtained late in the draft.

Back-to-the-basket post play used to be what you were looking for in a center. Everyone knew what good post players looked like, and everyone knew who the good post players were. Therefore, you absolutely had to have a high pick to find a good center. Nowadays, center is a much more versatile position with more than one pathway to success. You can be a high-post pick-and-pop shooter with good passing like Marc Gasol or Nikola Jokic. You can be a hard working pick-and-roll diver with good hands like Clint Capela or Steven Adams. You can be a long, freak-of-nature athlete who starts out raw but pans out to be a good rim protector like Gobert or Whiteside. You can be a little of everything like Draymond Green.

Because of the versatility at the position, it's much harder to predict who will pan out and who won't. Therefore, it's easier to find these guys late in the draft. Of all the guys I just mentioned, the highest pick was Adams at #12.

Having a high pick is nice. After all, Embiid, Porzingis, Davis, Drummond and Cousins went high. But there have been quite a few high pick busts like Okafor, Noel, Cauley-Stein, Len, and Valanciunas. A high pick isn't a guarantee of success, and it isn't a necessity either.

[nate33]

Worst comes to worst, is there any chance that the Wizards could clear enough room to sign Cousins?

No. It is impossible to clear the cap room to sign Cousins outright. Not without giving away Wall.

Cousins must be acquired by trading Beal or Porter (or Wall), or we find some way to send out both Mahinmi and Gortat in the trade, which doesn't seem plausible because there's so little outgoing value.

[queridiculo]

Worst comes to worst, is there any chance that the Wizards could clear enough room to sign Cousins?

No. It is impossible to clear the cap room to sign Cousins outright. Not without giving away Wall.

Cousins must be acquired by trading Beal or Porter (or Wall), or we find some way to send out both Mahinmi and Gortat in the trade, which doesn't seem plausible because there's so little outgoing value.

My scenario was assuming a George trade and losing him in free agency and includes the transaction I mentioned in my post.

[Dark Faze]

Again, there's no indication Cousins would even come close to being available. That ship is long gone and slipping over the horizon.

I wouldn't be that interested in trading any of our core players for George, but I would be willing to move Oubre and a first + filler for him--which I think might actually be a deal OKC would agree to with the way things are headed over there. The problem for us comes from the potential of him leaving. In all reality we'd need to get an extension agreement before accepting that trade.

It would make us a better team for sure but we'd still have the issue regarding Gortat/Kieff that need to be cleaned up. Does anyone know the status of Festus Ezeli? I think his injury situation is pretty bad, but I'd be willing to give him a shot/two way contract if he's deemed ready to go.

[Ruzious]

I think you over value Kelly Oubre.

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Oubre still hasn't proven he can play at a high level with enough consistency. I wouldn't assume he won't be traded. If we do trade our first rounder, maybe the thing to do is to package the first rounder with Oubre to get a top 10 pick. The 2018 draft is going to be real good in the top 10. I'd love to get one of the Bridges' - particularly Mikal from Villanova. He's even better defensively than Oubre, and he's much better offensively. Miles Bridges is awfully good, too.

Love Miles Bridges (6-7, 230 with a 7-foot wingspan) and he will have two seasons of college. If you can get a better version of Oubre, why would you trade for him (getting a mid-to-late first) unless you are loaded at the 3?

In my hypothetical - to get the mid to late first. Also, I think others think more highly of Oubre than I do, so they'd be willing to pay more for him than I would. And it wouldn't surprise me if Mikal eventually ends up at the 2 (I think he's a little shorter than the 6'7 he's listed at), and Miles playing some 4.

[Dark Faze]

Thinking on it, a 1st and Oubre would be too much for George if OKC was actually willing to deal. Oubre and filler would be perfectly fine compensation for a player looking to leave.

And then using our own pick on a center would be great.

[nate33]

Thinking on it, a 1st and Oubre would be too much for George if OKC was actually willing to deal. Oubre and filler would be perfectly fine compensation for a player looking to leave.

And then using our own pick on a center would be great.

We couldn't afford to pay George while also paying Wall, Beal and Porter. Not unless you want exclusively minimum salary guys at center and on the 2nd unit.

[Dark Faze]

Thinking on it, a 1st and Oubre would be too much for George if OKC was actually willing to deal. Oubre and filler would be perfectly fine compensation for a player looking to leave.

And then using our own pick on a center would be great.

We couldn't afford to pay George while also paying Wall, Beal and Porter. Not unless you want exclusively minimum salary guys at center and on the 2nd unit.

Lets be completely honest, the second unit might as well be all minimum level guys. Our biggest contributors have been a rookie contract (Oubre) and a literal minimum level player in Mike Scott. Frazier, Meeks? They are basically vet min guys in terms of reputation and on court production. Sato is another rookie contract guy. Ian playing well for maybe a week doesn't change the fact that he's been an absolute negative on the roster for the better part of a year now.

So in reality, I wouldn't really blink at all about having a roster full of minimum/rookie contract guys for a Wall/Beal/Otto/George core, assuming we could draft talent punching above their weight on rookie deals