Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIV

[NatP4]

Oubre is 10000000x times more valuable with Wall in the lineup. the bench is 100000x more effective with Satoransky running point. The biggest need is to subtract Morris and add another wing player/shot creating upgrade from Meeks.

I would be fine with Barton/MKG/Lou Will, whatever doesn't cost a 1st round pick. Prefer MKG because he can defend Lebron, but Barton or Lou Will would be nice upgrades that we should've gone after instead of Bojan last year. The best move might be to just limit Morris to 20 minutes per game and upgrade on Meeks in the form of Lou Williams.

Wall Sato
Beal Meeks or upgrade
Oubre upgrade
Porter Scott
Gortat Mahinmi

I think its a bad idea to try and upgrade on Gortat or Mahinmi right now, do that through the draft with Mitchell Robinson.

[Kanyewest]

I think you over value Kelly Oubre.

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Oubre still hasn't proven he can play at a high level with enough consistency. I wouldn't assume he won't be traded. If we do trade our first rounder, maybe the thing to do is to package the first rounder with Oubre to get a top 10 pick. The 2018 draft is going to be real good in the top 10. I'd love to get one of the Bridges' - particularly Mikal from Villanova. He's even better defensively than Oubre, and he's much better offensively. Miles Bridges is awfully good, too.

I'm a Villanova alum, I like Bridges a lot (Ruz you were right about him being the best NBA caliber player on the roster). That being said, he is only 8 months younger than Oubre. It would be an interesting thought experiment swap Oubre on stacked Villanova roster these past few seasons (relative to their competition) and see what kind of crazy numbers he would be putting up in place of Bridges and playing opponents like Lafayette, Columbia, UPenn, and LaSalle. Don't get me wrong, Bridges numbers have been insane including 48% from 3; I would just like to see a larger sample size than 10 games to proclaim him as a better version of Oubre.

Now, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Oubre for Bridges given Washington's salary cap situation.

[Ruzious]

I think you over value Kelly Oubre.

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Oubre still hasn't proven he can play at a high level with enough consistency. I wouldn't assume he won't be traded. If we do trade our first rounder, maybe the thing to do is to package the first rounder with Oubre to get a top 10 pick. The 2018 draft is going to be real good in the top 10. I'd love to get one of the Bridges' - particularly Mikal from Villanova. He's even better defensively than Oubre, and he's much better offensively. Miles Bridges is awfully good, too.

I'm a Villanova alum, I like Bridges a lot (Ruz you were right about him being the best NBA caliber player on the roster). That being said, he is only 8 months younger than Oubre. It would be an interesting thought experiment swap Oubre on stacked Villanova roster these past few seasons (relative to their competition) and see what kind of crazy numbers he would be putting up in place of Bridges and playing opponents like Lafayette, Columbia, UPenn, and LaSalle. Don't get me wrong, Bridges numbers have been insane including 48% from 3; I would just like to see a larger sample size than 10 games to proclaim him as a better version of Oubre.

Now, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Oubre for Bridges given Washington's salary cap situation.

Thanks for that comment. And you're right - the salary cap situation is a major reason I'm looking for a trade like that. I very well may be exaggerating the quality difference between them - and I think Oubre has a better NBA body. But we have 1 more year (after this season) of cheap Oubre. At maybe 20 plus million dollar a year after that... we will need cheaper solutions even if he turns out to be worth what he gets.

[payitforward]

You are not being objective. I admit I was not thinking about Cousins having an expiring deal. That means I was wrong in my no-brainer assessment.

Valuing Beal over Cousins is absurd in my opinion.

Valuing Porter over Cousins is wrong, too. Ludicrous.

How many times have either bill or Porter been NBA player of the week or All Stars? When have either Beal or Porter been ranked high in value over replacement player?

I don't actually value Beal over Cousins. For one thing, given the shortage of tallness in the world, it's always easier to find a reasonably good SG than it is to find an equivalent Center. For another, Beal has only had one full year where he was an above average player -- last year (though it was a big jump). If he was making another such jump -- which for a few weeks at the beginning of the season it did look like he was doing -- I'd feel different. But, right now it doesn't look like that.

OTOH, one factor you are leaving out is age. Beal is 3 years younger than Cousins. He has much more of his career ahead of him. There's room for him to improve, & at 24 you would expect that from him. Would that be enough for me to make the trade? I don't know, & really it doesn't matter b/c there's no practical chance of it happening.

As to Porter, sorry CCJ, but I'd say you need to look again. I'd take Porter over Cousins all day every day twice a day.

[nate33]

Thinking on it, a 1st and Oubre would be too much for George if OKC was actually willing to deal. Oubre and filler would be perfectly fine compensation for a player looking to leave.

And then using our own pick on a center would be great.

We couldn't afford to pay George while also paying Wall, Beal and Porter. Not unless you want exclusively minimum salary guys at center and on the 2nd unit.

Lets be completely honest, the second unit might as well be all minimum level guys. Our biggest contributors have been a rookie contract (Oubre) and a literal minimum level player in Mike Scott. Frazier, Meeks? They are basically vet min guys in terms of reputation and on court production. Sato is another rookie contract guy. Ian playing well for maybe a week doesn't change the fact that he's been an absolute negative on the roster for the better part of a year now.

So in reality, I wouldn't really blink at all about having a roster full of minimum/rookie contract guys for a Wall/Beal/Otto/George core, assuming we could draft talent punching above their weight on rookie deals

George is going to cost John Wall money, not merely Otto Porter money. We will be paying Wall and George roughly $35-$40M a year, plus paying Beal and Otto $25-$30M a year. 4 players will make $120-$140M. You wouldn't even be able to afford 1st round pick contracts and Sato-sized contracts, much less the type of money you would need to pay a starting center.

George is good, but he's not THAT good. Wall, Beal, George, Otto and minimum salary vets could win maybe 45 games in a regular season because the team would have no depth, no cushion for injuries and no starting caliber center. We gotta stop going after the big names who are already overpriced.

[payitforward]

Oubre still hasn't proven he can play at a high level with enough consistency. I wouldn't assume he won't be traded. If we do trade our first rounder, maybe the thing to do is to package the first rounder with Oubre to get a top 10 pick. The 2018 draft is going to be real good in the top 10. I'd love to get one of the Bridges' - particularly Mikal from Villanova. He's even better defensively than Oubre, and he's much better offensively. Miles Bridges is awfully good, too.

Oubre is 22. He's playing at a high level already. He is developing rapidly. Packaging him w/ our #1 to move up maybe 10 spots in the draft seems like a bad idea to me.

Of all the guys taken 1-15 in the last 4 drafts -- how many of them are playing at a higher level than Kelly Oubre? That's 59 guys.

It's a pretty short list. I really can't see that trade. Pick a good guy at our spot in the draft, & add him to Oubre & the rest of the core.

[dangermouse]

Its a shame Gortat isnt expiring this year... and this is sort of repeating myself but

It would be great to trade Morris for Lou Williams. Then follow up with a trade that sees Gortat out + small value (2nd?) for Tyson Chandler. There;s no reason for the Suns to do it as of now though. It could be sold as "getting a better look at Monroe and freeing up minutes for Len, while moving money to possibly re-sign Monroe who has played well." Unfortunately the savings would be minimal for the Suns taking on Gortat :|

Then again, just standing pat they aren't in any better of a siutation, so maybe a small value & a tiny reduction in team salary for a lateral move contract-wise would be of interest, and since Gortat is new, they can reduce his role to let Monroe back into the starting line up?

Wall/Sato/Frazier
Beal/Lou/Meeks
Oubre/Porter/Sato or Meeks
Porter/Scott
Chandler/Mahinmi

We keep our first while managing to address a lot of issues.

[payitforward]

What are the chances the Wizards aren't done with their pursuit of Paul George?

Washington was luke warm on extending Porter at the max and while they said all the right things about retaining him, it's obvious that's not where they saw his value.

Grunfeld likes the big names and you know he must be pissed his masterplan of running the East isn't coming to fruition. Washington inquired about George before and it's no secret that Wall wants him here.

For the Thunder things aren't looking good. The team isn't coming together the way they execpted it to and the Western Conference is competitive enough that there will be a real chance they'll be on the outside looking in, the risk of losing George is real.

Wizards: Porter, Morris
Thunder: George, Patterson, Grant, Collison

Trade 2

Wizards sacrifice a first round pick to get out of Mahinmi's contract a year earlier and get under the luxury tax threshold for this year.

Wizards: Mahinmi, Smith, 2018 1st
Bulls: Robin Lopez

Here we go again w/ the Paul George stuff.

Gee, how did it happen that the Thunder acquired Paul George & got worse, I wonder? While, shockingly, the Pacers got better.

Could it be that he just isn't the player people think he is? Yes, it sure could be.

Trade Porter for George, & the team is immediately worse. A fair amount worse. It takes Paul George an extra 5 possessions to score 4 more points than Otto. During that time, he also turns the ball over an extra 2.5 times. So now we're up to 7.5 extra possessions. He also gets fewer defensive boards, fewer offensive boards (but makes up for that with extra steals), & commits more fouls. He does get 1.3 more assists.

[payitforward]

Worst comes to worst, is there any chance that the Wizards could clear enough room to sign Cousins?

No. It is impossible to clear the cap room to sign Cousins outright. Not without giving away Wall.

Cousins must be acquired by trading Beal or Porter (or Wall), or we find some way to send out both Mahinmi and Gortat in the trade, which doesn't seem plausible because there's so little outgoing value.

My scenario was assuming a George trade and losing him in free agency and includes the transaction I mentioned in my post.

Well, one thing is we could start "rehydrating the sponge" all over again if we did that series of transactions.

[payitforward]

We don't need, & can't make, any trades like this. What we do need, & can do, is draft a good player in the 2018 draft, then do it again in 2019.

[payitforward]

Again, there's no indication Cousins would even come close to being available. That ship is long gone and slipping over the horizon.

I wouldn't be that interested in trading any of our core players for George, but I would be willing to move Oubre and a first + filler for him--which I think might actually be a deal OKC would agree to with the way things are headed over there. The problem for us comes from the potential of him leaving. In all reality we'd need to get an extension agreement before accepting that trade.

It would make us a better team for sure but we'd still have the issue regarding Gortat/Kieff that need to be cleaned up. Does anyone know the status of Festus Ezeli? I think his injury situation is pretty bad, but I'd be willing to give him a shot/two way contract if he's deemed ready to go.

No, Faze, it would make us a worse team for sure. Just as it made OKC a worse team.

On the bright side, it would definitely make OKC a better team.

I don't believe I'm still reading this Paul George / DeMarcus Cousins crapola. At least it does look like we may have left behind the Carmelo Anthony era of trade ideas -- the same guys posting the George/Cousins nonsense were posting clever ways to give away the ship to get Carmelo -- less than one year ago!

[payitforward]

Thinking on it, a 1st and Oubre would be too much for George if OKC was actually willing to deal. Oubre and filler would be perfectly fine compensation for a player looking to leave.

And then using our own pick on a center would be great.

We couldn't afford to pay George while also paying Wall, Beal and Porter. Not unless you want exclusively minimum salary guys at center and on the 2nd unit.

Lets be completely honest, the second unit might as well be all minimum level guys. Our biggest contributors have been a rookie contract (Oubre) and a literal minimum level player in Mike Scott. Frazier, Meeks? They are basically vet min guys in terms of reputation and on court production. Sato is another rookie contract guy. Ian playing well for maybe a week doesn't change the fact that he's been an absolute negative on the roster for the better part of a year now.

So in reality, I wouldn't really blink at all about having a roster full of minimum/rookie contract guys for a Wall/Beal/Otto/George core, assuming we could draft talent punching above their weight on rookie deals

Dude... we have how many picks in the next 3 drafts? 4 I believe. How are you going to fill the roster w/ the "rookie contract" players?

Moreover, even with the rest of the team nothing but minimum salaries, we'd be a mile over the luxury tax with a team that had no shot whatever at competing to win the East.

[payitforward]

...Now, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Oubre for Bridges given Washington's salary cap situation.

Thanks for that comment. And you're right - the salary cap situation is a major reason I'm looking for a trade like that. I very well may be exaggerating the quality difference between them - and I think Oubre has a better NBA body. But we have 1 more year (after this season) of cheap Oubre. At maybe 20 plus million dollar a year after that... we will need cheaper solutions even if he turns out to be worth what he gets.

But but but... Ruz....

You are trading 2 rookie contracts for 1 rookie contract. Moreover, if it really is a high pick the salary almost immediately gets near what Oubre's paid now. You're not helping the cap/tax situation.

Plus Oubre is a good player -- he's not potentially a good player; he's actually good. & that R1 pick you are blithely throwing in could be the next Gobert. Or Capela. Or Draymond Green. Or Jimmy Butler. Or Jordan Bell. Or Malcolm Brogdon. Or Larry Nance. Or a bunch of other guys.

Could be a bust, of course. As could that high pick you want to roll the dice on.

[pcbothwel]

We don't need, & can't make, any trades like this. What we do need, & can do, is draft a good player in the 2018 draft, then do it again in 2019.

Agreed. Though I wouldnt be against trading our 2019 pick if the right trade presented itself next summer/trade deadline.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Agree about throwing in Mahinmi as the only way I'd do that deal with Boogie. Yes, he won't sign here next year even for a discount to play with Wall.

This team will lose in perpetuity with Cousins on the team. He's a loser....period. Doesn't make his team better, doesn't make his teammates better, and plays lousy defense. The fact that he plays with a top 5 player in the league, and the team still struggles says volumes.

Giannis Antetokounmpo had a great game tonight.

Bledsoe had a real good game.

Brogden had a good game.

Middleton had 10 assists.

A funny thing happened, though. Despite his 9 turnovers, and the fact that he was playing with Anthony Davis; some kind of way the Pelicans beat the Bucks.

Boogie cousins was all over Sports Center: slam-dunk finish on Jameer Nelson's miss. Following that a 3-pointer in clutch time. He's one of those big men who can do it all. That's what the SportsCenter guy said but what the hell do I know? Maybe that SportsCenter guy's just crazy or something.

They showed 4 highlights of Boogie Cousins. They showed him lobbing passes to Anthony Davis for dunks...

It's after midnight here in Hawaii but maybe tomorrow I'll put the box score out there and put the good things he did and the bad things he did and try to be objective about this...

Tonight Davis and cousins both put up really good stat lines and the Pelicans one

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Since 2010 you guys have been wrong about Cousins and I've been right.

The fun part is this never gets old.


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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I've soured on George

We need an all-star caliber option at C more than anything else at this point. I'd trade Otto for Cousins in a heartbeat but the Pels aren't going to put him on the market.

Our best shot at a huge upgrade at C is through sheer luck (or skillful drafting) of the position in the draft.

In other words--everything I've been saying since the beginning of the season--take a step back now to take a step forward later. Move our soon to be expiring bigs for anything including second rounders, watch our own pick improve as a result and pray we get an elite big man out of it

I would, too.

I would trade Kelly oubre to the Pelican simply because the kid's from New Orleans. I would do him a solid if I thought it did this franchise a solid.

I would trade Brad Beal straight up for cousins but the problem is the contract is not guaranteed pass this season. You could be trading awake Porter or Beal for absolutely nothing in return.

However there is a risk that they can suffer an injury like RG3 and you get them hurt and have to pay the remaining years of their max deals. I think of John Wall in those terms.

The only reason I would even consider John Wall is that 40 million he's going to make down the road and his bad knees. Those aren't the only reasons but they're the main considerations considering he's a point guard. John has crazy hops & crazy speed right now but that is always the first thing to go in a player.

Boogie cousins is kind of unique and I just have seen him run with wall and look like they would be very good on the same NBA team..

I can barely move my neck right now and I can barely see my cell phone so I'm not going to edit this I'll edit it in the morning

My voice translator is crappy so forgive me for all the errors

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[TGW]

Since 2010 you guys have been wrong about Cousins and I've been right.

The fun part is this never gets old.


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What cracks me up is how much of a hypocrite you are when it comes to Cousins. The Wizards, according to you, are terrible. You say it almost every thread. They're 15-13 and 6th in their conference. On the other hand, you praise the Pelicans, who are 15-14 and 7th in their conference.

Zero playoff wins. Just admit you're wrong.

[Ruzious]

Oubre still hasn't proven he can play at a high level with enough consistency. I wouldn't assume he won't be traded. If we do trade our first rounder, maybe the thing to do is to package the first rounder with Oubre to get a top 10 pick. The 2018 draft is going to be real good in the top 10. I'd love to get one of the Bridges' - particularly Mikal from Villanova. He's even better defensively than Oubre, and he's much better offensively. Miles Bridges is awfully good, too.

Oubre is 22. He's playing at a high level already. He is developing rapidly. Packaging him w/ our #1 to move up maybe 10 spots in the draft seems like a bad idea to me.

Of all the guys taken 1-15 in the last 4 drafts -- how many of them are playing at a higher level than Kelly Oubre? That's 59 guys.

It's a pretty short list. I really can't see that trade. Pick a good guy at our spot in the draft, & add him to Oubre & the rest of the core.

How are you going to pay him when you have 90 million a year allocated to 3 players?

The last 4 drafts shouldn't be the way you evaluate the 2018 draft, right?

[Dark Faze]

We couldn't afford to pay George while also paying Wall, Beal and Porter. Not unless you want exclusively minimum salary guys at center and on the 2nd unit.

Lets be completely honest, the second unit might as well be all minimum level guys. Our biggest contributors have been a rookie contract (Oubre) and a literal minimum level player in Mike Scott. Frazier, Meeks? They are basically vet min guys in terms of reputation and on court production. Sato is another rookie contract guy. Ian playing well for maybe a week doesn't change the fact that he's been an absolute negative on the roster for the better part of a year now.

So in reality, I wouldn't really blink at all about having a roster full of minimum/rookie contract guys for a Wall/Beal/Otto/George core, assuming we could draft talent punching above their weight on rookie deals

Dude... we have how many picks in the next 3 drafts? 4 I believe. How are you going to fill the roster w/ the "rookie contract" players?

Moreover, even with the rest of the team nothing but minimum salaries, we'd be a mile over the luxury tax with a team that had no shot whatever at competing to win the East.

Now tell me your plan for how we aren't a tax team with a paper thin roster without any further moves?

Tell me your plan for how we DON'T end up being over the cap with a paper thin roster in two years? Even being extremely conservative, the team needs a ton of luck to not be paper thin and capped out in two seasons.