Political Roundtable Part XV

JWizmentality · Post #61 » by **JWizmentality** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:55 pm

popper wrote:We’ve discussed this before (especially PIF) but shouldn’t we finally stop with debates predicated upon the false notion of race? I wish the govt. would do so as well and stop dividing people.

August 22, 2017
A subversive idea: The end of race
By John Conlin

What if one of the things you thought were true simply weren’t? Could you let go of your old beliefs? What if they struck at the core of some of your most basic concepts of self? In earlier times people have confronted this unnerving reality, generally as the scientific revolution rolled over their old ideas. We seem to think we are immune, that everything we know is the truth.

Thomas Kuhn, in his The Structure of Scientific Revolutions argued that science is not a steady, cumulative acquisition of knowledge. Instead, “science is a series of peaceful interludes punctuated by intellectually violent revolutions.” After such revolutions, “one conceptual world view is replaced by another”. It is time for another revolution and this one involves the entire concept of race.

As a scientific fact, the black race doesn’t exist. Neither does the white or Asian. There is no race gene. In the year 2000, when the scientists at the National Institutes of Health announced that they had put together a draft of the entire sequence of the human genome, the researchers unanimously declared that there is only one race -- the human race.

The Hispanic “race” didn’t even exist until the 1970 census -- they needed some classification for “them.” Here is a subversive idea; what if there truly isn’t any “them?” What if the whole concept of “them” is simply a creation of our classification? One can take data and classify it in a myriad of ways, but the classification doesn’t become real in any physical sense………………

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/08/a_subversive_idea__the_end_of_race.html#ixzz4qVQdenVs

Yeah, if only it were so simple. I feel like this would be a moment nate drops one of his IQ graphs. :lol:

But I digress, none of us here will live to see the day that the concept of "race" is eliminated. Neither is it incumbent on the govt to do so. The concept of race existed well before politicians started exploiting it. We all need to look in the mirror.

popper · Post #62 » by **popper** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:05 pm

JWizmentality wrote:
popper wrote:We’ve discussed this before (especially PIF) but shouldn’t we finally stop with debates predicated upon the false notion of race? I wish the govt. would do so as well and stop dividing people.

August 22, 2017
A subversive idea: The end of race
By John Conlin

What if one of the things you thought were true simply weren’t? Could you let go of your old beliefs? What if they struck at the core of some of your most basic concepts of self? In earlier times people have confronted this unnerving reality, generally as the scientific revolution rolled over their old ideas. We seem to think we are immune, that everything we know is the truth.

Thomas Kuhn, in his The Structure of Scientific Revolutions argued that science is not a steady, cumulative acquisition of knowledge. Instead, “science is a series of peaceful interludes punctuated by intellectually violent revolutions.” After such revolutions, “one conceptual world view is replaced by another”. It is time for another revolution and this one involves the entire concept of race.

As a scientific fact, the black race doesn’t exist. Neither does the white or Asian. There is no race gene. In the year 2000, when the scientists at the National Institutes of Health announced that they had put together a draft of the entire sequence of the human genome, the researchers unanimously declared that there is only one race -- the human race.

The Hispanic “race” didn’t even exist until the 1970 census -- they needed some classification for “them.” Here is a subversive idea; what if there truly isn’t any “them?” What if the whole concept of “them” is simply a creation of our classification? One can take data and classify it in a myriad of ways, but the classification doesn’t become real in any physical sense………………

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/08/a_subversive_idea__the_end_of_race.html#ixzz4qVQdenVs

Yeah, if only it were so simple. I feel like this would be a moment nate drops one of his IQ graphs.

But I digress, none of us here will live to see the day that the concept of "race" is eliminated. Neither is it incumbent on the govt to do so. The concept of race existed well before politicians started exploiting it. We all need to look in the mirror.

So it's not incumbent on us or on govt. to eliminate falsehoods and untrue classifications from our discussions? Wouldn't we be better off respecting the science behind the classification of human beings?

payitforward · Post #63 » by **payitforward** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:27 pm

popper wrote:We’ve discussed this before (especially PIF) but shouldn’t we finally stop with debates predicated upon the false notion of race? I wish the govt. would do so as well and stop dividing people.

August 22, 2017
A subversive idea: The end of race
By John Conlin

What if one of the things you thought were true simply weren’t? Could you let go of your old beliefs? What if they struck at the core of some of your most basic concepts of self? In earlier times people have confronted this unnerving reality, generally as the scientific revolution rolled over their old ideas. We seem to think we are immune, that everything we know is the truth.

Thomas Kuhn, in his The Structure of Scientific Revolutions argued that science is not a steady, cumulative acquisition of knowledge. Instead, “science is a series of peaceful interludes punctuated by intellectually violent revolutions.” After such revolutions, “one conceptual world view is replaced by another”. It is time for another revolution and this one involves the entire concept of race.

As a scientific fact, the black race doesn’t exist. Neither does the white or Asian. There is no race gene. In the year 2000, when the scientists at the National Institutes of Health announced that they had put together a draft of the entire sequence of the human genome, the researchers unanimously declared that there is only one race -- the human race.

The Hispanic “race” didn’t even exist until the 1970 census -- they needed some classification for “them.” Here is a subversive idea; what if there truly isn’t any “them?” What if the whole concept of “them” is simply a creation of our classification? One can take data and classify it in a myriad of ways, but the classification doesn’t become real in any physical sense………………

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/08/a_subversive_idea__the_end_of_race.html#ixzz4qVQdenVs

There are certainly no biological "races." & it seems obvious too that the world would be better off if there were no reason to think of any other forms of "them" either.

But, there are reasons. So this doesn't mean we can stop thinking about different groups of people! Just that we have to stop assigning them biological characteristics. Indeed, if we simply stopped doing that, it would hasten the day when those "reasons" went away, & we really would be able to stop thinking about different groups.

But we are a long way away from stopping race-based thinking. & it's not just "thinking" either. It's a long history of concerted action which has left results none of us like -- or at least that none of us should like. Facts on the ground. & politics & policy must deal with facts on the ground.

I_Like_Dirt · Post #64 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:30 pm

popper wrote:So it's not incumbent on us or on govt. to eliminate falsehoods and untrue classifications from our discussions? Wouldn't we be better off respecting the science behind the classification of human beings?

You don't eliminate falsehoods by ignoring them. If people didn't go out spreading and explaining the value of vaccines, well, we see what happens. The reality here is that while "race" is an artificial term that really means nothing, what it represents is how much people will let their eyes or emotions override their brains, and that's what's at issue here. Even if it doesn't exist scientifically speaking, it does exist in the eyes of many, which is a big problem. Ignore it and tacitly make it okay for people to be treated differently based on colour of their skin?

In order to break race down, you have to rebuild the world from the ground up, because like it or not, people rarely change their minds on this one. A few might have epiphanies that allow them to change their minds, but for the most part, the best that can be hoped for is for people to shut the hell up about it while the younger generation learns the world in a completely different way. And no, it isn't that these people can't learn, it's that they won't, and trying to force them is pointless because they grind in their heels. And the reality here is that even when the forcing isn't largely intended to make them change their minds (it is often misinterpreted that way, but the goal is broader than that even if the consequence would be lauded if it happened) but rather to just shut the hell up about it so that others who are interested in learning (usually younger) can be offered a different environment in which to learn, they still dig in their heels, and that's a problem. Ignore the problem and it won't go away. Could things be handled better? Sure, absolutely. But this isn't a case where those pointing out the problem are the ones causing it. I can't recall how people I've spoken with, young and old, who claim they don't go to the doctor because if they don't that means nothing is wrong, which is ridiculous reasoning.

verbal8 · Post #65 » by **verbal8** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:55 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:

Read on Twitter

Hate to say it...but fake news.

How many Trump supporters do you know that have turned on him? None or not Many....its funny but I'm always shocked by the fact that people on both sides seem to stick with their original thought on the right politician. Trump could win all 3 of these states again (i think he won these right?).

I think it a fair amount of supporters staying home vs. large numbers of voters switching. One thing that is pretty much certain is the opponent will be more popular than Clinton. One huge factor in the race was haters of Clinton and Trump, chose Trump. Short of a Trump/Clinton rematch I can't see a reasonable Democratic opponent who would have negatives close to Clinton(or Trump).

JWizmentality · Post #66 » by **JWizmentality** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:06 pm

popper wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
popper wrote:We’ve discussed this before (especially PIF) but shouldn’t we finally stop with debates predicated upon the false notion of race? I wish the govt. would do so as well and stop dividing people.

August 22, 2017
A subversive idea: The end of race
By John Conlin

What if one of the things you thought were true simply weren’t? Could you let go of your old beliefs? What if they struck at the core of some of your most basic concepts of self? In earlier times people have confronted this unnerving reality, generally as the scientific revolution rolled over their old ideas. We seem to think we are immune, that everything we know is the truth.

Thomas Kuhn, in his The Structure of Scientific Revolutions argued that science is not a steady, cumulative acquisition of knowledge. Instead, “science is a series of peaceful interludes punctuated by intellectually violent revolutions.” After such revolutions, “one conceptual world view is replaced by another”. It is time for another revolution and this one involves the entire concept of race.

As a scientific fact, the black race doesn’t exist. Neither does the white or Asian. There is no race gene. In the year 2000, when the scientists at the National Institutes of Health announced that they had put together a draft of the entire sequence of the human genome, the researchers unanimously declared that there is only one race -- the human race.

The Hispanic “race” didn’t even exist until the 1970 census -- they needed some classification for “them.” Here is a subversive idea; what if there truly isn’t any “them?” What if the whole concept of “them” is simply a creation of our classification? One can take data and classify it in a myriad of ways, but the classification doesn’t become real in any physical sense………………

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/08/a_subversive_idea__the_end_of_race.html#ixzz4qVQdenVs

Yeah, if only it were so simple. I feel like this would be a moment nate drops one of his IQ graphs.

But I digress, none of us here will live to see the day that the concept of "race" is eliminated. Neither is it incumbent on the govt to do so. The concept of race existed well before politicians started exploiting it. We all need to look in the mirror.

So it's not incumbent on us or on govt. to eliminate falsehoods and untrue classifications from our discussions? Wouldn't we be better off respecting the science behind the classification of human beings?

Yes, that's why I said we ALL need to look in the mirror.

popper · Post #67 » by **popper** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:12 am

JWizmentality wrote:
popper wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
Yeah, if only it were so simple. I feel like this would be a moment nate drops one of his IQ graphs.

But I digress, none of us here will live to see the day that the concept of "race" is eliminated. Neither is it incumbent on the govt to do so. The concept of race existed well before politicians started exploiting it. We all need to look in the mirror.

So it's not incumbent on us or on govt. to eliminate falsehoods and untrue classifications from our discussions? Wouldn't we be better off respecting the science behind the classification of human beings?

Yes, that's why I said we ALL need to look in the mirror.

I'm not sure I understand your comment. How does looking in a mirror affect our reaction to a scientific finding (that there is only one race, not multiple races)? I may be missing your point though so please explain.

Also, when a citizen fills out govt. or university questionnaires asking for race classification the only accurate answer in my mind would be "other". Wouldn't it be dishonest to answer in any other way assuming one understands the science?

CobraCommander · Post #68 » by **CobraCommander** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:36 am

verbal8 wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:

Read on Twitter

Hate to say it...but fake news.

How many Trump supporters do you know that have turned on him? None or not Many....its funny but I'm always shocked by the fact that people on both sides seem to stick with their original thought on the right politician. Trump could win all 3 of these states again (i think he won these right?).

I think it a fair amount of supporters staying home vs. large numbers of voters switching. One thing that is pretty much certain is the opponent will be more popular than Clinton. One huge factor in the race was haters of Clinton and Trump, chose Trump. Short of a Trump/Clinton rematch I can't see a reasonable Democratic opponent who would have negatives close to Clinton(or Trump).

I respectfully disagree.

Trumps fans are fanatical and appear to be irrational.

Trump is essentially flip flopping on positions, taking Obamas stances on issues publicly while blaming Obama for everything , calling people names/cyber bullying, taking more vacations than any president in history over this period of time, double dipping by having the secret service PAY HIM for his vacations (hillarious that this isnt a huge deal..wow he is brilliant if making money makes your smart), destroying the leaders of his own party publicly (calling a McCain out for not caring about the america people because he didnt pass the healthcare reform bill and for getting captured...JOHN MFin McCain?!?!) , threatening preemptive nuclear strikes, reluctantly denouncing NAZIs while his grandkids and daughter are Jewish (WOW---this is the crazyiest thing in the world its like trump is Clayton Bigsby) , not listening to the CIA, NSA and FBI in regards to security issues and siding with Russians-ON THE RECORD-on those same security issues, firing one senior member of the government a week, there are leaks proving he is lying about who is paying for the wall between america and Mexico, hasn't passed ONE bill of consequence, he is going against the "put america first policy" by firing thier leader Bannon and his senior cabinet said they didnt meet with Russians and then they met but it wasn't the Russian government but then it was...proven that it was a government contact that met with his ENTIRE SR CABINET except Pence and he is still considered a HERO to so many people. His numbers with republicans are essentially the same as they were right after the election- 80% approval...and if you watch Fox or read Fox News...they treat him like a Major UPGRADE OVER OBAMA.

Seriously- he is doing fine with his base and his base is bigger than anyone knew. I'm not saying he will win again but i dont see anyone on the democratic side besides Bernie that can compete with him. And BERNIE IS A SOCIALIST...there are so many people that would take a crazy trump over a old socialist....

DCZards · Post #69 » by **DCZards** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:02 am

CobraCommander wrote:I respectfully disagree.

Trumps fans are fanatical and appear to be irrational.

Trump is essentially flip flopping on positions, taking Obamas stances on issues publicly while blaming Obama for everything , calling people names/cyber bullying, taking more vacations than any president in history over this period of time, double dipping by having the secret service PAY HIM for his vacations (hillarious that this isnt a huge deal..wow he is brilliant if making money makes your smart), destroying the leaders of his own party publicly (calling a McCain out for not caring about the america people because he didnt pass the healthcare reform bill and for getting captured...JOHN MFin McCain?!?!) , threatening preemptive nuclear strikes, reluctantly denouncing NAZIs while his grandkids and daughter are Jewish (WOW---this is the crazyiest thing in the world its like trump is Clayton Bigsby) , not listening to the CIA, NSA and FBI in regards to security issues and siding with Russians-ON THE RECORD-on those same security issues, firing one senior member of the government a week, there are leaks proving he is lying about who is paying for the wall between america and Mexico, hasn't passed ONE bill of consequence, he is going against the "put america first policy" by firing thier leader Bannon and his senior cabinet said they didnt meet with Russians and then they met but it wasn't the Russian government but then it was...proven that it was a government contact that met with his ENTIRE SR CABINET except Pence and he is still considered a HERO to so many people. His numbers with republicans are essentially the same as they were right after the election- 80% approval...and if you watch Fox or read Fox News...they treat him like a Major UPGRADE OVER OBAMA.

Seriously- he is doing fine with his base and his base is bigger than anyone knew. I'm not saying he will win again but i dont see anyone on the democratic side besides Bernie that can compete with him. And BERNIE IS A SOCIALIST...there are so many people that would take a crazy trump over a old socialist....

Trump's base is holding...and Repubs in general seem to be tolerating his nonsense. But he's steadily losing the all-important support of Independents. (The poll info below is from late June but I'm guessing that 45's #s with Independents have gone even further south since then.)

Not saying Trump can't win again and he certainly has fooled me/us before, but I'm betting that unless something changes dramatically he'll be toast in 2020--assuming that he's even the Repub nominee.

Trump Fails To Reach Beyond Base As Independents' Disapproval Grows

President Trump's support among independent voters has eroded since he took office. Though he still clings to a loyal base of supporters, his overall disapproval among Americans has reached record highs, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

The most pronounced swing seen in the poll was among independents.

Over the past four months, their approval of the president has dissipated. In February, 40 percent of independents said they approved of the job Trump was doing, with 51 percent disapproving. Four months later in June, just 31 percent say they approve of the president with 59 percent of independents disapproving — a 17-point net-negative drop.

Despite almost full employment nationwide, independents are particularly dissatisfied with Trump on the economy. That's likely driving much of their overall disapproval. Just 31 percent of independents say they have confidence in Trump's ability to improve the U.S. economy, while 49 percent doubt he can do so. Just three months ago, 44 percent thought Trump could turn around the economy, while 38 percent didn't — a whiplash-worthy 24-point swing.

Benjammin · Post #70 » by **Benjammin** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:03 am

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/msespn-pulls-asian-announcer-named-robert-lee-off-uva-game-avoid-offending-idiots/

I can only hope this is a joke that ESPN would pull an announcer from the UVA William and Mary football game because his name is Robert Lee. He happens to be ASIAN American!

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CobraCommander · Post #71 » by **CobraCommander** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:21 am

DCZards wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:I respectfully disagree.

Trumps fans are fanatical and appear to be irrational.

Trump is essentially flip flopping on positions, taking Obamas stances on issues publicly while blaming Obama for everything , calling people names/cyber bullying, taking more vacations than any president in history over this period of time, double dipping by having the secret service PAY HIM for his vacations (hillarious that this isnt a huge deal..wow he is brilliant if making money makes your smart), destroying the leaders of his own party publicly (calling a McCain out for not caring about the america people because he didnt pass the healthcare reform bill and for getting captured...JOHN MFin McCain?!?!) , threatening preemptive nuclear strikes, reluctantly denouncing NAZIs while his grandkids and daughter are Jewish (WOW---this is the crazyiest thing in the world its like trump is Clayton Bigsby) , not listening to the CIA, NSA and FBI in regards to security issues and siding with Russians-ON THE RECORD-on those same security issues, firing one senior member of the government a week, there are leaks proving he is lying about who is paying for the wall between america and Mexico, hasn't passed ONE bill of consequence, he is going against the "put america first policy" by firing thier leader Bannon and his senior cabinet said they didnt meet with Russians and then they met but it wasn't the Russian government but then it was...proven that it was a government contact that met with his ENTIRE SR CABINET except Pence and he is still considered a HERO to so many people. His numbers with republicans are essentially the same as they were right after the election- 80% approval...and if you watch Fox or read Fox News...they treat him like a Major UPGRADE OVER OBAMA.

Seriously- he is doing fine with his base and his base is bigger than anyone knew. I'm not saying he will win again but i dont see anyone on the democratic side besides Bernie that can compete with him. And BERNIE IS A SOCIALIST...there are so many people that would take a crazy trump over a old socialist....

Trump's base is holding...and Repubs in general seem to be tolerating his nonsense. But he's steadily losing the all-important support of Independents. (The poll info below is from late June but I'm guessing that 45's #s with Independents have gone even further south since then.)

Not saying Trump can't win again and he certainly has fooled me/us before, but I'm betting that unless something changes dramatically he'll be toast in 2020--assuming that he's even the Repub nominee.

Trump Fails To Reach Beyond Base As Independents' Disapproval Grows

President Trump's support among independent voters has eroded since he took office. Though he still clings to a loyal base of supporters, his overall disapproval among Americans has reached record highs, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

The most pronounced swing seen in the poll was among independents.

Over the past four months, their approval of the president has dissipated. In February, 40 percent of independents said they approved of the job Trump was doing, with 51 percent disapproving. Four months later in June, just 31 percent say they approve of the president with 59 percent of independents disapproving — a 17-point net-negative drop.

Despite almost full employment nationwide, independents are particularly dissatisfied with Trump on the economy. That's likely driving much of their overall disapproval. Just 31 percent of independents say they have confidence in Trump's ability to improve the U.S. economy, while 49 percent doubt he can do so. Just three months ago, 44 percent thought Trump could turn around the economy, while 38 percent didn't — a whiplash-worthy 24-point swing.

Trump continues to amaze me...and I am more amazed that he was right when he said he could SHOOT SOMEONE and not lose votes!!!! :banghead:

payitforward · Post #72 » by **payitforward** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:25 am

popper wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
popper wrote:
So it's not incumbent on us or on govt. to eliminate falsehoods and untrue classifications from our discussions? Wouldn't we be better off respecting the science behind the classification of human beings?

Yes, that's why I said we ALL need to look in the mirror.

I'm not sure I understand your comment. How does looking in a mirror affect a scientific finding (that there is only one race, not multiple races)? I may be missing your point though so please explain.

Also, when a citizen fills out govt. or university questionnaires asking for race classification the only accurate answer in my mind would be "other". Wouldn't it be dishonest to answer in any other way assuming one understands the science?

Popper, I'm glad you accept the (obvious) fact that there are no biological "races." & you are certainly correct, & Conlin (author of the piece you excerpted & linked to) is also right in saying so.

For that reason, the more you (and everyone) resist the notion of assigning characteristics to "races" in conversation or in politics the better. When someone says "white people are smarter than blacks" (or anything that implies the notion) or characterizes Jews in any particular way, and you speak up to say "no, that's not at all true -- there are no races, so it can't be true", you are doing a good thing -- politically, scientifically, etc.

Beyond that scope, I think - respectfully - you have a few things wrong. & that Conlin, while recording a truth, is doing so tendentiously.

For one thing, you (via Conlin) seem to imagine that the issue of race is one of correcting a scientific error. But the idea of race was not a "scientific error," it was a systematic purposeful theory based on no science at all (not to say that trumped up pseudo-science wasn't brought to bear to support the idea). I say "was," but I should say "is."

As well, not only was/is it based on "no science at all," but it's maintained against science. Those convinced of racism do not respond to scientific disproof. If they did, racism would have vanished long ago.

In short, the problem is not "race;" the problem is "racism." No scientist of any standing believes there are different races of human beings. Nor does the truth require Thomas Kuhn's idea of scientific "paradigms." But no one questions whether "racism" exists. No one questions the fact that "racism" has had huge effects on our world & still does. Negative effects.

If, from the fact that there are no races, you conclude that you should therefore resist or even fight racism, great. If instead you conclude that racism is therefore irrelevant, you are on the wrong track.

Finally, Popper, you might try reading something of genuine intellectual value, like Kuhn's book "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions," rather than spending (I should say "wasting") your time on the "American Thinker" (so-called) blog. Kuhn's book, which appeared in 1964, is aimed at the general reader and is terrific. Conlin misstates Kuhn's thesis & applies it to issues in exactly the opposite way Kuhn does in his book (not that Kuhn discusses racist theory -- he doesn't). In short, he mis-uses Kuhn entirely. But of course you can't know this unless you actually read Kuhn.

Benjammin · Post #73 » by **Benjammin** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:56 pm

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/23/media/espn-robert-lee-uva-game/index.html

CNN is reporting this as well. But no, ESPN doesn't have a particular political slant, right?

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Wizardspride · Post #74 » by **Wizardspride** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:14 pm

Read on Twitter

Wizardspride · Post #75 » by **Wizardspride** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:24 pm

Read on Twitter

dckingsfan · Post #76 » by **dckingsfan** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:24 pm

How is that news?

Wizardspride · Post #77 » by **Wizardspride** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:48 pm

dckingsfan wrote:How is that news?

The highlighted part?

I assume it's news when the guy who says he's innocent berates someone for not protecting him.

Why does he need protection?

If it's all fake news (and it may well be) just let them do their investigation and laugh at them... :dontknow:

Post #78 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:02 pm

Benjammin wrote:http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/23/media/espn-robert-lee-uva-game/index.html

CNN is reporting this as well. But no, ESPN doesn't have a particular political slant, right?

Sent from my XT1650 using RealGM mobile app

Oh yeah, Dems will be dancing in the streets over it.

I'd call it a stupid ratings related decision (of which they have many) rather than a political slant. It doesn't serve any political side.

cammac · Post #79 » by **cammac** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:08 pm

The trip to Arizona by Trump was to prop up his base and absolutely nothing more.
To rephrase a old saying only Trump and Mad Dog followers come out in a Phoenix evening.
He has a targeted audience and he does do a good job of giving red meat to the base and he had his one token black man behind him who was the most rabid of his supporters. One has to wonder how much he was paid to participate? He played to the base in his culture remarks which is aimed at the high school or less white people who fear for there place in society.

From a Canadian view obviously NAFTA is important to Canada as well as the USA since our economies are intertwined obviously some changes should be made on both sides and with Mexico. The major point of contention is that disputes should go through the USA court system. Plus the buy American 1st on government contracts and expect equal treatment on Canadian government contracts.I believe the NAFTA agreement can be revitalized to the benefit of all.

Post #80 » by **montestewart** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:30 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:How is that news?

The highlighted part?

I assume it's news when the guy who says he's innocent berates someone for not protecting him.

Why does he need protection?

If it's all fake news (and it may well be) just let them do their investigation and laugh at them...

It starts with expecting top administration officials to protect him from investigation, then on to expecting Republican elected officials to protect him from investigation ("I thought we were on the same team"), then expecting the Secret Service to protect him from investigation ("they're supposed to protect the President"), then the military ("I am their Commander-In-Chief"), civil servants ("I head the organization they work for"), the press ("I am the leader of the country whose Constitution protects their right to exist"), and when, finally, he suggests that the failure of any citizen to protect him from investigation is a treasonous offense ("An attack on me is an attack on our nation"), we'll all be so worn down that we'll wonder, "Why is this news?"

PS: I inadvertently made the Politics thread a stickied thread last week. It may be a while before camps start, but this is still a basketball board, so I hope no one minds me returning it to regular thread status. Stickied threads seem like they should be reserved for basketball subjects. Politics being what it is these days, the thread is bound to stay near the top regardless.