Gortat vs. Mahinmi

Coach76 · Post #1 » by **Coach76** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:03 pm

Are there enough minutes for both? Brooks never really figured this out last year:

https://audioboom.com/posts/6287708-locked-on-wizards-sept-11-brooks-big-dilemma?playlist_direction=forward&t=0

J-Ves · Post #2 » by **J-Ves** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:19 pm

What is their to figure out? If both are healthy and productive they get all the center minutes.

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Coach76 · Post #3 » by **Coach76** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:50 pm

Ben starts talking about this around the 7-minute mark of the podcast. Gortat has skills. He's still an above average center. Mahinmi is the better defender, but hasn't been able to remain healthy. The problem is neither of them is well-suited for this era. Neither has much shooting range. They have different skills, but opposing centers who can shoot easily make both liabilities. Added to this, they're making serious money(Gortat-$12.7MM and Mahinmi-$16.7MM), so you can't just sit them. Given that, who should get more minutes?

pcbothwel · Post #4 » by **pcbothwel** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:36 pm

Gortat is the starter going into camp. He gets 22-24 MPG and Mahinmi gets 16. Smith gets the rest with a splash of Morris in a small ball lineup.
Brooks can adjust based on productivity and health.
Gortat doesnt offer positional versatility, but he can play in a number of different systems on both ends of the court while being an iron man you that doesnt hurt you at the end of games with hack-a-shaq.
Health, being average or better on both ends, and setting solid picks for PnR or to free shooters is VERY usefull in todays NBA. Gortat fits that perfect.
By the deadline, someone will need a big.
Milwaukee, Philly, Boston, and Dallas are teams off the top of my head that might need him.

BigA · Post #5 » by **BigA** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:02 pm

Gortat vs. Mahinmi kind of reminds me of Godzilla vs. Megalon

Watch on YouTube

payitforward · Post #6 » by **payitforward** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:08 am

It seems pretty obvious that Ernie signed Mahinmi to be our starting Center. You don't give a guy $64m for 4 years to be a backup.

Keep in mind that Mahinmi had been the starter at Indiana the previous year -- when the Pacers posted a better record than ours. Mahinmi was intended as Gortat's replacement.

Ernie also signed Smith -- he was intended to be our backup Center. Had Mahinmi been healthy, I'm sure Ernie would have been looking to trade Gortat at the deadline.

In theory, there's nothing wrong with these plans. Gortat is not a long-term solution at Center b/c of his age. Plus, he's paid too much to be a backup.

Only problems were: a) Mahinmi wasn't healthy, & b) Smith is neither good nor young. (He's what Ernie thinks of as "a piece." Ernie thinks he can always get "a piece" when he needs one.

When the plan didn't work out, & we couldn't afford to trade Gortat, the result was to make our salary problems significantly worse. Which meant that we couldn't do this off-season what we should have done last off-season: sign someone like Dedmon who is a) good, b) cheap enough to keep as a backup Center, & c) young enough that he might even have some development in him. Signing Dedmon would have meant, as well, that we could also have signed a young Center prospect or bought a high R2 pick to get one -- or both.

Instead we have Gortat (old), Mahinmi (fragile) & Smith (not good). Those 3 guys cost more than 1/3 of the cap. Given that our 3 best players cost more than 2/3 of the cap, we were unable to address the situation this Summer either -- or do much of anything for that matter.

These moves & the resultant problems are typical Ernie. The only reason this generation of the Wizards is good at all is b/c the ping pong balls made it possible for us to get Wall & Porter. If we had had to rely on our GM's skill we'd still be winning 30-something games a year.

Coach76 · Post #7 » by **Coach76** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:23 am

payitforward wrote:It seems pretty obvious that Ernie signed Mahinmi to be our starting Center. You don't give a guy $64m for 4 years to be a backup.

Keep in mind that Mahinmi had been the starter at Indiana the previous year -- when the Pacers posted a better record than ours. Mahinmi was intended as Gortat's replacement.

Ernie also signed Smith -- he was intended to be our backup Center. Had Mahinmi been healthy, I'm sure Ernie would have been looking to trade Gortat at the deadline.

In theory, there's nothing wrong with these plans. Gortat is not a long-term solution at Center b/c of his age. Plus, he's paid too much to be a backup.

Only problems were: a) Mahinmi wasn't healthy, & b) Smith is neither good nor young. (He's what Ernie thinks of as "a piece." Ernie thinks he can always get "a piece" when he needs one.

When the plan didn't work out, & we couldn't afford to trade Gortat, the result was to make our salary problems significantly worse. Which meant that we couldn't do this off-season what we should have done last off-season: sign someone like Dedmon who is a) good, b) cheap enough to keep as a backup Center, & c) young enough that he might even have some development in him. Signing Dedmon would have meant, as well, that we could also have signed a young Center prospect or bought a high R2 pick to get one -- or both.

Instead we have Gortat (old), Mahinmi (fragile) & Smith (not good). Those 3 guys cost more than 1/3 of the cap. Given that our 3 best players cost more than 2/3 of the cap, we were unable to address the situation this Summer either -- or do much of anything for that matter.

These moves & the resultant problems are typical Ernie. The only reason this generation of the Wizards is good at all is b/c the ping pong balls made it possible for us to get Wall & Porter. If we had had to rely on our GM's skill we'd still be winning 30-something games a year.

I'm willing to believe a lot of this. I honestly think that Ernie signed Mahinmi due to a) panic and b) too much money to play with. He whiffed on KD and Horford. He probably felt like he had to do something. Signing a 31-year old backup center with a history of injuries to be your starter is bound to fail, but it's also the sort of perverse move that has characterized Ernie's reign of terror.
The Jason Smith we saw in the second half of last season is gone. Jason Smith wouldn't be playing more than 10 minutes on a team with a good frontcourt.

deneem4 · Post #8 » by **deneem4** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:04 am

Gortat and (potential) mahinmi conversation is only based on the performance of our big 3

If wall and beal and Morris are clicking it doesn't matter what under top 5 team it is...
Our center will look good because of the looks and the defensive effort
But if wall beal and porter are in clicking...
We don't need either because we can rebound and defend athletically well enough...

With that being said I'll rather start oubre and Morris...
Or Morris and smith...

I want some shooting from our Biggs to open up the pnr...
Unless it's a team like golden state or Cleveland...
Then I want gortat cause of the volume shooting...
(Rebounding)
Or if it's an athletic big I want mahinmi...
Defense

But Morris can shootdefend athetlic bigs better(mahinmi sub)
Smith can shoot and slash well...(gortat sub)

With that said either or both should be traded...

The only real thing matters is if our big 3 is clicking...
If we can't shoot it's a wall show and that's the best way to go...gortat would be good for the pnr mahinmi for the defense but having smith or Morris is better spacing

If beal/porter hitting it's a 3 point contest...gortat would be good for the rebounding...mahinmi for defense but having smith or Morris for spacing would be ideal

But oubre with wall beal and porter is potentially another animal...

Ok end with that

JWizmentality · Post #9 » by **JWizmentality** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:20 pm

We need Mykneeme to up that trade value.

FAH1223 · Post #10 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:36 pm

Considering Mahinmi can't be relied upon, Gortat is the default starter as he doesn't miss games.

Coach76 · Post #11 » by **Coach76** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:53 pm

At what point, do they try and find a modern, stretch 5?

Post #12 » by **nate33** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:43 pm

Coach76 wrote:At what point, do they try and find a modern, stretch 5?

They have Jason Smith for that.

dangermouse · Post #13 » by **dangermouse** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:06 am

Coach76 wrote:At what point, do they try and find a modern, stretch 5?

7 years of John Wall, 7 years of searching for a modern stretch 4 and coming up empty, and you're wondering when we are gonna get a modern stretch 5? :lol:

Post #14 » by **montestewart** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:04 pm

dangermouse wrote:
Coach76 wrote:At what point, do they try and find a modern, stretch 5?

7 years of John Wall, 7 years of searching for a modern stretch 4 and coming up empty, and you're wondering when we are gonna get a modern stretch 5?

By that time, the fast changing NBA will have moved on to the stretch 6, leaving EG to scratch his head in wonder.

remi_222 · Post #15 » by **remi_222** » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:06 pm

Mahinmi is the kind of player that any team needs coming off the bench, bringing def energy and push the team this way. Gortat would fit the starting role better than Ian, even if Ian showed that he could do it very fairly in Indianna, to me I would prefer Gortat to start

payitforward · Post #16 » by **payitforward** » Sun Oct 1, 2017 2:20 am

Now, wait a minute... this "Gortat vs. Mahinmi" thing -- how many rounds is it scheduled for?

doclinkin · Post #17 » by **doclinkin** » Sun Oct 1, 2017 2:37 pm

We've been looking for a high post center since the EFJ Agent Zero Princeton offense era. We coulda drafted a fine one in Marc Gasol. But Ernie Ernie'd the draft again.

Actually in win-now mode he'd be a good fit. If Memphis struggles and decides they're rebuilding maybe we can do something around a Gasol+ Oubre + ? package. (Oubre/Sati plus picks?) They dump salary 2 yrs early on Gasols expiring deal, we get older and land a name that Ernie recognizes. In a desperation move that is not relevant in the big picture scheme of things.

The ? part is the kicker. If they were willing to lose Gasol they will get much better offers from other contenders. I just like the idea of a MGasol fit. I love Gortat for his picks and health and attitude and running the floor and rolling hard to the baslet and chemistry with John and maximizing the talent he does have. I just can see MGasol passing out of the P&R to Beal or Porter outside, or Porter crashing to the glass glass backdoor, as well as dropping a pocket pass to a cutting John. His passing makes Beal and Porter better. Maximizing where we are strongest.

dangermouse · Post #18 » by **dangermouse** » Sun Oct 1, 2017 8:03 pm

Gasol at 32 is still one of the best defensive centers around. I actually thought he was older... I just wonder how valuable he is to us compared to just keeping the duo we have, can he keep up with the rest of the guys? The rebounding would improve thats for sure.

We'd also need more $ outgoing in the trade I believe.

Post #19 » by **nate33** » Mon Oct 2, 2017 1:21 am

doclinkin wrote:We've been looking for a high post center since the EFJ Agent Zero Princeton offense era. We coulda drafted a fine one in Marc Gasol. But Ernie Ernie'd the draft again.

Actually in win-now mode he'd be a good fit. If Memphis struggles and decides they're rebuilding maybe we can do something around a Gasol+ Oubre + ? package. (Oubre/Sati plus picks?) They dump salary 2 yrs early on Gasols expiring deal, we get older and land a name that Ernie recognizes. In a desperation move that is not relevant in the big picture scheme of things.

The ? part is the kicker. If they were willing to lose Gasol they will get much better offers from other contenders. I just like the idea of a MGasol fit. I love Gortat for his picks and health and attitude and running the floor and rolling hard to the baslet and chemistry with John and maximizing the talent he does have. I just can see MGasol passing out of the P&R to Beal or Porter outside, or Porter crashing to the glass glass backdoor, as well as dropping a pocket pass to a cutting John. His passing makes Beal and Porter better. Maximizing where we are strongest.

While Gasol is undoubtedly a terrific player, I'm not so sure that his talents mesh so well with our squad. A high-post passer who makes good decisions with the ball seems redundant with a ball-dominant PG who doesn't shoot all that well from the perimeter.

Don't get me wrong, he's clearly an upgrade over Gortat. But if we're going to sacrifice a lot of assets for a center, I'd rather go after a pick-and-roll guy who protects the rim and vacuums up every rebound - like a DeAndre Jordan or Andre Drummond. Either that, or wait for the inevitable train wreck in New Orleans and see if we can grab a disgruntled DeMarcus Cousins at a bargain price.

bsilver · Post #20 » by **bsilver** » Mon Oct 2, 2017 10:11 pm

dangermouse wrote:Gasol at 32 is still one of the best defensive centers around. I actually thought he was older... I just wonder how valuable he is to us compared to just keeping the duo we have, can he keep up with the rest of the guys? The rebounding would improve thats for sure.

We'd also need more $ outgoing in the trade I believe.

I think his defense is declining. Last year was his career worst in blocks per game (.7) and worst in Dtrg (108). It seems like our opponents go to the basket without any worry about blocked shots.