Sato at PG

[nate33]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate how correct this board was about Sato, and how embarrassingly wrong Brooks was in keeping him on the bench behind Frazier for so long. (And how unnecessary it was to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to add Frazier.)

At just shy of the midpoint of the season, Sato currently is posting an ORtg of 125, which leads the team. His WS/48 is .152, which is second best on the team behind only Otto Porter. He is shooting .424 from 3-point range and .549 from 2-point range. His A/TO ratio of 4.3 leads the team by a country mile. His ORB% ranks 4th on the team behind only Gortat, Mahinmi and Smith.

When Sato leads the bench unit, they're -0.9 net over 100 possessions. In comparison, Frazier led the bench unit to -7.6 per 100 possessions. When you give Sato's bench unit Bradley Beal to replace Meeks, they're an unreal +72 over 100 possessions.

[Shanghai Kid]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate how correct this board was about Sato, and how embarrassingly wrong Brooks was in keeping him on the bench behind Frazier for so long. (And how unnecessary it was to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to add Frazier.)

At just shy of the midpoint of the season, Sato currently is posting an ORtg of 125, which leads the team. His WS/48 is .152, which is second best on the team behind only Otto Porter. He is shooting .424 from 3-point range and .549 from 2-point range. His A/TO ratio of 4.3 leads the team by a country mile. His ORB% ranks 4th on the team behind only Gortat, Mahinmi and Smith.

When Sato leads the bench unit, they're -0.9 net over 100 possessions. In comparison, Frazier led the bench unit to -7.6 per 100 possessions. When you give Sato's bench unit Bradley Beal to replace Meeks, they're an unreal +72 over 100 possessions.

The only credit I give to Brooks is he at least stuck with Sato when Wall came back. A blind man could have seen who was more effective at that point, but some of us legit worried that he would still go with Frazier.

[Illmatic12]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate how correct this board was about Sato, and how embarrassingly wrong Brooks was in keeping him on the bench behind Frazier for so long. (And how unnecessary it was to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to add Frazier.)

At just shy of the midpoint of the season, Sato currently is posting an ORtg of 125, which leads the team. His WS/48 is .152, which is second best on the team behind only Otto Porter. He is shooting .424 from 3-point range and .549 from 2-point range. His A/TO ratio of 4.3 leads the team by a country mile. His ORB% ranks 4th on the team behind only Gortat, Mahinmi and Smith.

When Sato leads the bench unit, they're -0.9 net over 100 possessions. In comparison, Frazier led the bench unit to -7.6 per 100 possessions. When you give Sato's bench unit Bradley Beal to replace Meeks, they're an unreal +72 over 100 possessions.

I think Brooks has always been complimentary towards Sato as a player, but he had to first prove that he could shoot the ball at an NBA level.

Tomas was literally afraid to shoot the ball last season and the beginning of this season. Without knowing what’s going on in practice, I think it’s fair to assume that Brooks and the coaching staff knew what they were doing and played a role in helping raise Sato’s confidence to the level it is now — where he can be a good rotation player and starting to look like the guy he was at Barca.

IMO Tomas development has been moreso related to adjustments made off the court and in practice , not just directly tied to his in-game PT

[DCZards]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate how correct this board was about Sato, and how embarrassingly wrong Brooks was in keeping him on the bench behind Frazier for so long. (And how unnecessary it was to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to add Frazier.)

At just shy of the midpoint of the season, Sato currently is posting an ORtg of 125, which leads the team. His WS/48 is .152, which is second best on the team behind only Otto Porter. He is shooting .424 from 3-point range and .549 from 2-point range. His A/TO ratio of 4.3 leads the team by a country mile. His ORB% ranks 4th on the team behind only Gortat, Mahinmi and Smith.

When Sato leads the bench unit, they're -0.9 net over 100 possessions. In comparison, Frazier led the bench unit to -7.6 per 100 possessions. When you give Sato's bench unit Bradley Beal to replace Meeks, they're an unreal +72 over 100 possessions.

Yes, it's great to see that Sato has proven to be a solid backup. He's showing the kind of ability on both ends of the court that we saw glimpses of last season, and he's shooting so much better than I think most of us expected.

But it's only in hindsight that you can say that it was unnecessary to sacrifice a second round pick for Frazier. There was little evidence going into this season that Sato was the answer at backup PG. And the Zards certainly didn't want a situation like they had last year where backup PG was a weakness and Wall was forced to play a ton a minutes on a regular basis for the Zards to be competitive.

Frazier was playing decently as backup PG. It's just that Sato is a lot better than Frazier on a lot of levels and has clearly earned the backup PG position, which is what I'm sure most Wizard fans and the teams' coaches and front office hoped would turn out to be the case.

[tontoz]

If wall hadn't gotten hurt then Sato would still be buried on the bench. I would definitely view that as a coaching mistake.

Frazier has no upside. He is a break glass in case of emergency player.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate how correct this board was about Sato, and how embarrassingly wrong Brooks was in keeping him on the bench behind Frazier for so long. (And how unnecessary it was to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to add Frazier.)

At just shy of the midpoint of the season, Sato currently is posting an ORtg of 125, which leads the team. His WS/48 is .152, which is second best on the team behind only Otto Porter. He is shooting .424 from 3-point range and .549 from 2-point range. His A/TO ratio of 4.3 leads the team by a country mile. His ORB% ranks 4th on the team behind only Gortat, Mahinmi and Smith.

When Sato leads the bench unit, they're -0.9 net over 100 possessions. In comparison, Frazier led the bench unit to -7.6 per 100 possessions. When you give Sato's bench unit Bradley Beal to replace Meeks, they're an unreal +72 over 100 possessions.

I started this thread on October 5th. That was before the regular season started.

Looking back at the playoffs last year, I sincerely believe the Wizards would have advanced if Satoransky had played instead of Bogdanovic. When Wall was gassed, Bogdanovic was not providing veteran grit or skill under pressure, and Jennings was a total disaster; Satoransky was available then.

(So was healthy Shelden Mac.)

Anyhow, better late than never. I am glad Brooks has seen the light. Tomas Satoransky is going to be a solid contributor from here on because the Coach finally believes in him.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate how correct this board was about Sato, and how embarrassingly wrong Brooks was in keeping him on the bench behind Frazier for so long. (And how unnecessary it was to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to add Frazier.)

At just shy of the midpoint of the season, Sato currently is posting an ORtg of 125, which leads the team. His WS/48 is .152, which is second best on the team behind only Otto Porter. He is shooting .424 from 3-point range and .549 from 2-point range. His A/TO ratio of 4.3 leads the team by a country mile. His ORB% ranks 4th on the team behind only Gortat, Mahinmi and Smith.

When Sato leads the bench unit, they're -0.9 net over 100 possessions. In comparison, Frazier led the bench unit to -7.6 per 100 possessions. When you give Sato's bench unit Bradley Beal to replace Meeks, they're an unreal +72 over 100 possessions.

I think Brooks has always been complimentary towards Sato as a player, but he had to first prove that he could shoot the ball at an NBA level.

Tomas was literally afraid to shoot the ball last season and the beginning of this season. Without knowing what’s going on in practice, I think it’s fair to assume that Brooks and the coaching staff knew what they were doing and played a role in helping raise Sato’s confidence to the level it is now — where he can be a good rotation player and starting to look like the guy he was at Barca.

IMO Tomas development has been moreso related to adjustments made off the court and in practice , not just directly tied to his in-game PT

I totally agree with you that Tomas Satoransky was afraid to shoot last year.

That said, at the beginning of the 2016-2017 season the Wizards were very effective when Tomas was on the floor. Their defense was very good. He was a solid player even as a reluctant shooter

My opinion is foreign players sometimes come in timid. Others are far too modest. I remember Satoransky making a comment about himself not being a natural shooter; and in his opinion only certain people are great shooters. To me this kind of insight might not be appreciated by NBA coaches. They might consider his introspection spoken verbally as weakness or timidity.

I don't think Tomas should have been trying to prove himself. For coaches developing young players, just tell him to shoot the ball with conviction as if he is going to make it. ("Believe that you put the time in and that the shot is going to drop!") Praise the hell out of the guy until he believes he's good. Above all don't yank him when he misses one shot.

Bottom line is I think Satoransky should have been playing a lot last year. That is why I started this thread because I just knew Scott Brooks was never going to play the guy. I am now so glad that circumstances enabled Tomas Satoransky to get into the lineup to show the kind of player that he clearly has been all along.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Let's all take a moment to appreciate how correct this board was about Sato, and how embarrassingly wrong Brooks was in keeping him on the bench behind Frazier for so long. (And how unnecessary it was to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to add Frazier.)

At just shy of the midpoint of the season, Sato currently is posting an ORtg of 125, which leads the team. His WS/48 is .152, which is second best on the team behind only Otto Porter. He is shooting .424 from 3-point range and .549 from 2-point range. His A/TO ratio of 4.3 leads the team by a country mile. His ORB% ranks 4th on the team behind only Gortat, Mahinmi and Smith.

When Sato leads the bench unit, they're -0.9 net over 100 possessions. In comparison, Frazier led the bench unit to -7.6 per 100 possessions. When you give Sato's bench unit Bradley Beal to replace Meeks, they're an unreal +72 over 100 possessions.

Yes, it's great to see that Sato has proven to be a solid backup. He's showing the kind of ability on both ends of the court that we saw glimpses of last season, and he's shooting so much better than I think most of us expected.

But it's only in hindsight that you can say that it was unnecessary to sacrifice a second round pick for Frazier. There was little evidence going into this season that Sato was the answer at backup PG. And the Zards certainly didn't want a situation like they had last year where backup PG was a weakness and Wall was forced to play a ton a minutes on a regular basis for the Zards to be competitive.

Frazier was playing decently as backup PG. It's just that Sato is a lot better than Frazier on a lot of levels and has clearly earned the backup PG position, which is what I'm sure most Wizard fans and the teams' coaches and front office hoped would turn out to be the case.

Thanks for mentioning Satoransky gets it done at both ends. He has the size and the athleticism to be an asset even in the NBA.

I also still believe in Tim Frazier. I think the Wizards could probably get just as much out of Frazier as they are getting out of Jodie Meeks.

DCZ, I have mixed feelings about about that second round pick that the Wizards traded to acquire Tim Frazier. Here is what the Wizards said then about TF:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2017/06/23/scott-brooks-on-wizards-trade-for-tim-frazier-i-think-its-a-great-pick-up/

We're happy with what we did yesterday with Tim. Gives us another player that fits what we need," Brooks said. "He's a winner. Tough kid. Gritty. Knows how to play. Another guy that can push the pace and continue our pace and play fast. Defensively he's scrappy. I think it's a great pick up, a great addition. He adds another important piece to our team. He gives us some options at the position playing behind John.

The guy I really wanted them to acquire was Juwan Evans. However, he was already gone by pick number 52.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717369-clippers-pick-jawun-evans-39th-overall-in-nba-draft-trade-cash-to-76ers

Although he wasn't considered one of the top prospects in a draft loaded with elite guard talent, (Jawun) Evans was among the most lethal scorers and playmakers the college game had to offer last season

One could say that that number 52 pick would not have yielded a good player. I just point out Juwan Evans because he is a rookie second-rounder and not a veteran. I think Evans is already better than Frazier. If the Wizards had brought in a younger player it would not have displaced Tomas Satoransky in the lineup like the additions of Tim Frazier and Jodie Meeks initially did.

DCZ, I think they would have been okay if they just added Tim Frazier and not Jodie Meeks. I agree with you there Frazier is a solid backup but Tomas does a lot more on a lot of levels.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If wall hadn't gotten hurt then Sato would still be buried on the bench. I would definitely view that as a coaching mistake.

Frazier has no upside. He is a break glass in case of emergency player.

I totally agree Wall's injury is the only reason why Satoransky is playing.

Tim Frazier is serviceable IMO. He's way better than Eric Maynor and Brandon Jennings. Any player who can get a triple double in the NBA game can play. He's just not as effective as Satoransky is. I remember liking Tim Frazier when he was at Penn State. I don't really want to build up Satoransky but tear down Tim Frazier the same time.

That said I also agree with you that he does not offer upside.



Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[closg00]

Great points being made^ Somehow Sato is no-longer playing scared like he was last year so I wonder what he did in the off-season to give him that boost?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nate33 said much that deserves more attention:

nate33 said:

"Let's all take a moment to appreciate how correct this board was about Sato, and how embarrassingly wrong Brooks was in keeping him on the bench behind Frazier for so long. (And how unnecessary it was to sacrifice a 2nd round pick to add Frazier.)

At just shy of the midpoint of the season, Sato currently is posting an ORtg of 125, which leads the team. His WS/48 is .152, which is second best on the team behind only Otto Porter. He is shooting .424 from 3-point range and .549 from 2-point range. His A/TO ratio of 4.3 leads the team by a country mile. His ORB% ranks 4th on the team behind only Gortat, Mahinmi and Smith.

When Sato leads the bench unit, they're -0.9 net over 100 possessions. In comparison, Frazier led the bench unit to -7.6 per 100 possessions. When you give Sato's bench unit Bradley Beal to replace Meeks, they're an unreal +72 over 100 possessions."

I would say satoransky needs to be playing 20 to 25 minutes a game at least.

[NatP4]

It’s almost like Satoransky is a guard version of Otto Porter lol.

We need to work towards a playoff rotation of Satoransky Oubre Mahinmi. We have 8 starting caliber players on this roster, maybe even 9 with Mike Scott. Like Nate pointed out, Beal could be the starter that plays with the bench in place of Meeks, that would solve the lack of ball handling issue that Sato does have.

Satoransky needs to play 25 minutes a night easily though. He’s a positive every time he’s on the court, he can play the 1-3. Brooks could be using him with Wall and Beal on the court.

Lineups I would love to see that we haven’t yet:

Wall
Beal
Sato
Oubre
Porter

Wall
Beal
Sato
Porter
Gortat


Use him more as a core player and less as a marginal 12 minute backup. He’s good.

[DCZards]

Lineups I would love to see that we haven’t yet:

Wall
Beal
Sato
Oubre
Porter

I don't think you can get away with this lineup in the NBA for more than a couple of minutes. Opponents would quickly start feeding their big men, which would create a matchup problem when you're relying on two skinny 6-7 forwards to rebound and defend against much bigger men.

Wall
Beal
Sato
Porter
Gortat


Use him more as a core player and less as a marginal 12 minute backup. He’s good.

We've already seen some versions of this lineup with either Gortat, Ian or Morris sharing the court with Wall, Beal, Sato & Porter/Oubre. I think we'll see that lineup more going forward as Sato continues to improve, especially his outside shooting.

[nate33]

Lineups I would love to see that we haven’t yet:

Wall
Beal
Sato
Oubre
Porter

I don't think you can get away with this lineup in the NBA for more than a couple of minutes. Opponents would quickly start feeding their big men, which would create a matchup problem when you're relying on two skinny 6-7 forwards to rebound and defend against much bigger men.

Agreed. It's a gimmick lineup that might work in specific last-possession circumstances or if the other team is doing something crazy with their lineups, but it's not something we should see with any regularity.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How about this no Wall or Beal lineup:

Sato
Oubre
Porter
Morris
Smith

Let Morris work on the low post and let Jason Smith pop threes. Kelly Oubre was listed as a SG when he was drafted back in 2015. It's essentially a combo guard and two swing men with two legit big men. All five players can shoot threes. Every one of them can defend multiple positions. Why wouldn't this lineup work? I love having two plus rebounding guards.

If I were an NBA coach, whenever John Wall and Bradley Beal started playing hero Ball in the playoffs I would try the above.

The premise would be for Satoransky to pass the ball or slow it down in a half-court situation. Work the ball around for the best shot. Opposing defenses would have some trouble matching up. Wall and Beal could rest when they need 2 to 5 minutes. Oubre and Satoransky both crash the boards.

I would tell Otto Porter it is time for you to play like a max contract player in this lineup. Shoot the ball frequently!


Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[dangermouse]

How about this no Wall or Beal lineup:

Sato
Oubre
Porter
Morris
Smith

Let Morris work on the low post and let Jason Smith pop threes. Kelly Oubre was listed as a SG when he was drafted back in 2015. It's essentially a combo guard and two swing men with too legit big men. All five players can shoot threes. Every one of them can defend multiple positions. Why wouldn't this lineup work? I love having two plus rebounding guards.

If I were an NBA coach, whenever John Wall and Bradley Beal started playing hero Ball in the playoffs I would try the above.

The premise would be for Satoransky to pass the ball or slow it down in a half-court situation. Work the ball around for the best shot. Opposing defenses would have some trouble matching up. Wall and Beal could rest when they need 2 to 5 minutes. Oubre and Satoransky both crash the boards.

I would tell Otto Porter it is time for you to play like a max contract player in this lineup. Shoot the ball frequently!


Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

That lineup is a defensive monster, but in most cases with most teams, they have quicker PG's that can pester Sato, and that lineup doesn't have a Beal or anyone else that can help get the ball over the time line.

Also Smith, in what little time he has seen, hasn't been very good, shot has not been falling. But I do wonder if thats just a case of him needing more minutes to contribute the way we know he can.

[NatP4]

Lineups I would love to see that we haven’t yet:

Wall
Beal
Sato
Oubre
Porter

I don't think you can get away with this lineup in the NBA for more than a couple of minutes. Opponents would quickly start feeding their big men, which would create a matchup problem when you're relying on two skinny 6-7 forwards to rebound and defend against much bigger men.

Agreed. It's a gimmick lineup that might work in specific last-possession circumstances or if the other team is doing something crazy with their lineups, but it's not something we should see with any regularity.

I think people would be surprised at Otto’s ability to play the 5.

[nate33]

Also Smith, in what little time he has seen, hasn't been very good, shot has not been falling. But I do wonder if thats just a case of him needing more minutes to contribute the way we know he can.

Yeah, Smith's shooting slump has made him virtually unplayable. I was really hoping we'd see a bit more of the Jason Smith we saw last season. If nothing else, it would make it much easier to move him at the Trade Deadline and save a lot of luxtax money.

[DCZards]

I don't think you can get away with this lineup in the NBA for more than a couple of minutes. Opponents would quickly start feeding their big men, which would create a matchup problem when you're relying on two skinny 6-7 forwards to rebound and defend against much bigger men.

Agreed. It's a gimmick lineup that might work in specific last-possession circumstances or if the other team is doing something crazy with their lineups, but it's not something we should see with any regularity.

I think people would be surprised at Otto’s ability to play the 5.

Drummond
Embiid
Whiteside
Howard
Vucevic
Valanciunas
Robin Lopez

...and those are just some of the eastern conference centers you'd be asking Otto to defend in the paint and rebound against. Ain't happening, bro.

[NatP4]

Agreed. It's a gimmick lineup that might work in specific last-possession circumstances or if the other team is doing something crazy with their lineups, but it's not something we should see with any regularity.

I think people would be surprised at Otto’s ability to play the 5.

Drummond
Embiid
Whiteside
Howard
Vucevic
Valanciunas
Robin Lopez

...and those are just some of the eastern conference centers you'd be asking Otto to defend in the paint and rebound against. Ain't happening, bro.

Was it two years ago in a game where Hump/Gooden/Nene were all hurt, Gortat was gone on a personal trip and Otto played center all game and ripped down 15 rebounds against Miami and dominated Whiteside?

The guy played center in high school and power forward in college, he has a 7”3 wingspan, he’s more Draymond Green-like than you think.

We have literally witnessed Otto man handling Drummond in the paint before, things even got chippy. Imagine those guys trying to chase Otto around and guard the 3 point line. Rebounding is a team/box out thing anyways, not Otto Porter vs Dwight Howard.

Gortat and Morris average 13 rebounds per game

Oubre and Porter average 11.5 rebounds per game

Mostly hypothetical, but you’d be surprised I think. Lol. Remember when Scott Brooks closed games in the WCF with a Westbrook-Fisher-Jackson-Durant-Ibaka lineup? Brad Stevens was using Marcus smart at power forward against us in the playoffs. The warriors use a 6’6 SG as a power forward and a 6’7 wing as a center.

You really think losing 5 inches from gortat to Satoransky would sink that lineup?