Tracking the Eastern Conference

[closg00]

Early-on, it's a horse race in the East, things are looking much more competitive compared to last year.
Here is a much too-early look at the playoff race. (playoff tab)
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/standings/

[LyricalRico]

Playoffs?!?!

Watch on YouTube

[J-Ves]

Orlando and Detroit can’t be for real right? Especially Orlando, they were an absolute disaster last year. Then again that team does have a collection of young talent, maybe they all figured it out at the same time.


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[NatP4]

Gordon and Vucevic certainly have

[I_Like_Dirt]

I'm not sure about how "for real" they are, but I actually like Orlando more than Detroit. Orlando has made some subtle changes this offseason that sort of remind me of the changes that were made back when Masai Ujiri turned the Raptors around while maintaining a lot of the same roster - and given that Jeff Weltman was involved in that turnaround, too, I wonder if there isn't more method than madness here. They're currently the 2nd ranked offense and the 12th ranked defense. I mean, clearly some of the shooting rates aren't sustainable over the season, but finally recognizing that Aaron Gordon is a PF and not an SF seems to have been an important turn of events. Finally committing to Fournier as the scoring guard (and having him healthy this season where he wasn't for much of last season) also seems to be a big deal, as is establishing Vucevic as their guy rather than having a bunch of guys who may or may not be their guy. I'm not sure how Payton fits in all of this and I wonder if he might not be an ideal fit, but it's tough to say at this point. They aren't going to be 1st in the east, but I think they're a solid playoff team that winds up above .500. The way they move the ball and bury teams with shooting and mobility from all over the floor is really effective while running the 3rd fastest pace in the young season. If their young legs can maintain the pace over the course of the season, I like their chances.

The Pistons, I'm a little more skeptical of. They might be legit, but I'm not as sold on them as I am on the Magic, and I don't even really think the Magic are contenders, just a playoff team. Beating the Clippers and the Warriors is impressive, but they really haven't been all that impressive otherwise. They're the 13th ranked defense, which seems relatively sustainable for them, and they're the 8th ranked offense. They're achieving that 8th ranked offense based on a bunch of guys who have historically been questionably efficient who are still questionably efficient within their career norms, and outrageously efficient play from Tobias Harris and Langston Galloway. If those two guys come back down towards their career norms in terms of efficiency, you have a team that is going to float around being the 15th ranked offense and defense for the season, which is a recipe for a team that floats around .500. I suppose that's a good shot at being a playoff team in the east, but it isn't a particularly threatening team.

[Rafael122]

I'd like to give it until the end of November to see who's real and who isn't. Remember, the season technically starts around this time every year so I wouldn't be shocked if a ton of teams are still in preseason mode.

[closg00]

Gordon and Vucevic certainly have

Gonna toot my own horn and say that I advocated drafting Vucevic over Vesely somewhere

[Dat2U]

I think we should have NBA Finals or Bust thread. This is the most realistic chance the Wizards have had of making the finals since '79.

[Illmatic12]

It’s way too early to start tracking playoff standings for me .

I think because of the shortened offseason we’re seeing a lot of teams take longer than usual to get locked in and focused. By early December we’ll start to see different teams styles being codified and trends can be identified.

[Kanyewest]

I think we should have NBA Finals or Bust thread. This is the most realistic chance the Wizards have had of making the finals since '79.

2007, before the injuries anyways.

[Dat2U]

I think we should have NBA Finals or Bust thread. This is the most realistic chance the Wizards have had of making the finals since '79.

2007, before the injuries anyways.

Violently disagree. That was an incredibly flawed team with shallow talent pool. A terrible defensive team too. They hasn't even one a 2nd rd game yet. I wasn't buying it then and definitely not in retrospect. That team was never going to beat a young LeBron.

[Kanyewest]

I think we should have NBA Finals or Bust thread. This is the most realistic chance the Wizards have had of making the finals since '79.

2007, before the injuries anyways.

Violently disagree. That was an incredibly flawed team with shallow talent pool. A terrible defensive team too. They hasn't even one a 2nd rd game yet. I wasn't buying it then and definitely not in retrospect. That team was never going to beat a young LeBron.

The Wizards lost 3 1 point games to LeBron the previous season with some very VERY questionable officiating in 2006. Gilbert Arenas was better and made an all NBA 2nd team. Caron Butler was healthy (he was playing with a broken thumb with his shooting hand) and was better, making his first all star team.

The 2017-18 version of this team may be better once Wall rounds into shape. Still, the 2017-18 Cavs once the playoffs roll around should be much better than that 2007 iteration.

[FAH1223]

The Wizards lost 3 1 point games to LeBron the previous season with some very VERY questionable officiating in 2006. Gilbert Arenas was better and made an all NBA 2nd team. Caron Butler was healthy (he was playing with a broken thumb with his shooting hand) and was better, making his first all star team.

The 2017-18 version of this team may be better once Wall rounds into shape. Still, the 2017-18 Cavs once the playoffs roll around should be much better than that 2007 iteration.

Not on defense. The Cavs are not good defensively. It haunted them all year last year and they still are giving up a ton of points.

Isaiah Thomas isn't fixing that..

[Kanyewest]

The Wizards lost 3 1 point games to LeBron the previous season with some very VERY questionable officiating in 2006. Gilbert Arenas was better and made an all NBA 2nd team. Caron Butler was healthy (he was playing with a broken thumb with his shooting hand) and was better, making his first all star team.

The 2017-18 version of this team may be better once Wall rounds into shape. Still, the 2017-18 Cavs once the playoffs roll around should be much better than that 2007 iteration.

Not on defense. The Cavs are not good defensively. It haunted them all year last year and they still are giving up a ton of points.

Isaiah Thomas isn't fixing that..

Jae Crowder helps. IT could help them more when Kyrie is off the floor offensively. Although I'm starting to wonder if those players are that good last season because of Brad Stevens and if Lue is a below average head coach.

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[Dat2U]

The Wizards lost 3 1 point games to LeBron the previous season with some very VERY questionable officiating in 2006. Gilbert Arenas was better and made an all NBA 2nd team. Caron Butler was healthy (he was playing with a broken thumb with his shooting hand) and was better, making his first all star team.

The 2017-18 version of this team may be better once Wall rounds into shape. Still, the 2017-18 Cavs once the playoffs roll around should be much better than that 2007 iteration.

Not on defense. The Cavs are not good defensively. It haunted them all year last year and they still are giving up a ton of points.

Isaiah Thomas isn't fixing that..

Jae Crowder helps. IT could help them more when Kyrie is off the floor offensively. Although I'm starting to wonder if those players are that good last season because of Brad Stevens and if Lue is a below average head coach.

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You can't play good defense with only three good defenders on the entire roster (including Shumpert)

The Cavs are not a good team. They are a mess. LeBron is still LeBron but Love is still meh and Crowder has struggled so far offensively.

The rest of the roster Is a disaster. I find it laughable that people believe Derrick Rose or Dwyane Wade can play significant minutes for a contender. They are playing LeBron at PG b/c they have no real options at PG on the roster. The Rose/Calderon combo is easily the worst PG duo in the league.

People are assuming Isaiah is going to comeback and immediately pick up where he left off last year. I think it's a stretch that he even plays. Who knows how long it will be for he is even cleared to run.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Playoffs?!?!

Watch on YouTube

Good to have you back!

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Orlando and Detroit can’t be for real right? Especially Orlando, they were an absolute disaster last year. Then again that team does have a collection of young talent, maybe they all figured it out at the same time.


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Teams like Chicago and Atlanta and Indiana are in rebuild mode. Orlando has Coach Frank Vogel returning for the second year. Just like with Scott Brooks one would expect his team to be better due to coaching continuity. They drafted Jonathan Isaacs and they signed Jonathan Simmons.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story?id=20982941&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fm.espn.com%2Fnba%2Fplayercard%3FplayerId%3D4065654%22%7D

DJ Augustin has a lot to do with their success. Coach Vogel has started Augustine at PG more times than Elfrid Peyton. Simmons plays almost starter minutes. Isaacs is already solid on the boards.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2018.html

It looks to me that the secret to Orlando's success is they're killing it with made threes. Gordon at 4 and the small ball lineup is working. Marreese Speights is very good Off the bench!



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm not sure about how "for real" they are, but I actually like Orlando more than Detroit. Orlando has made some subtle changes this offseason that sort of remind me of the changes that were made back when Masai Ujiri turned the Raptors around while maintaining a lot of the same roster - and given that Jeff Weltman was involved in that turnaround, too, I wonder if there isn't more method than madness here. They're currently the 2nd ranked offense and the 12th ranked defense. I mean, clearly some of the shooting rates aren't sustainable over the season, but finally recognizing that Aaron Gordon is a PF and not an SF seems to have been an important turn of events. Finally committing to Fournier as the scoring guard (and having him healthy this season where he wasn't for much of last season) also seems to be a big deal, as is establishing Vucevic as their guy rather than having a bunch of guys who may or may not be their guy. I'm not sure how Payton fits in all of this and I wonder if he might not be an ideal fit, but it's tough to say at this point. They aren't going to be 1st in the east, but I think they're a solid playoff team that winds up above .500. The way they move the ball and bury teams with shooting and mobility from all over the floor is really effective while running the 3rd fastest pace in the young season. If their young legs can maintain the pace over the course of the season, I like their chances.

The Pistons, I'm a little more skeptical of. They might be legit, but I'm not as sold on them as I am on the Magic, and I don't even really think the Magic are contenders, just a playoff team. Beating the Clippers and the Warriors is impressive, but they really haven't been all that impressive otherwise. They're the 13th ranked defense, which seems relatively sustainable for them, and they're the 8th ranked offense. They're achieving that 8th ranked offense based on a bunch of guys who have historically been questionably efficient who are still questionably efficient within their career norms, and outrageously efficient play from Tobias Harris and Langston Galloway. If those two guys come back down towards their career norms in terms of efficiency, you have a team that is going to float around being the 15th ranked offense and defense for the season, which is a recipe for a team that floats around .500. I suppose that's a good shot at being a playoff team in the east, but it isn't a particularly threatening team.

Yeah, I like Orlando, too.

Detroit seems to be improving with a much-improved Stanley Johnson.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think we should have NBA Finals or Bust thread. This is the most realistic chance the Wizards have had of making the finals since '79.

I totally agree.

Cleveland's defense is bad. That's not going to change.

Washington has already shown that it can score points with the best of them. The Wizards have potential closers with Porter now asserting himself offensively and Beal. John Wall's the wild card. When he goes into "God-mode John Wall", this team is pretty impressive. Impressive enough to make it to the finals.

When Markieff Morris comes back I think the team is going to probably play pretty well. The key to get into the finals is going to be playoff seeding. This team has the potential to win about 52 to 55 games. This year that might be a one or two seed.

I think it would be a good idea to try to go all in on championship this season. All it would take is to get rid of Mahinmi's contract and get somebody good at backup PG. Instead of dreaming about DeMarcus Cousins I think much more realistic targets would be Tyson Chandler and Bledsoe.

-- I would trade both Gortat and Mahinmi just to get Tyson Chandler, (provided Bledsoe is part of the deal!). Even at his age and at this point in his career, Chandler is still a quality starting center.

--Tyson Chandler is a much better rebounder than Gortat or Mahinmi. (Rebounding has been a real problem with the Wizards!). He's even a better defender than Marcin or Ian. Plus, he has a championship ring.

If the Wizards can keep their core together of Wall, Beal, Porter, Oubre, and Morris; and add Chandler and Bledsoe, they can certainly get to the finals.

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[Kanyewest]

Not on defense. The Cavs are not good defensively. It haunted them all year last year and they still are giving up a ton of points.

Isaiah Thomas isn't fixing that..

Jae Crowder helps. IT could help them more when Kyrie is off the floor offensively. Although I'm starting to wonder if those players are that good last season because of Brad Stevens and if Lue is a below average head coach.

Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

You can't play good defense with only three good defenders on the entire roster (including Shumpert)

The Cavs are not a good team. They are a mess. LeBron is still LeBron but Love is still meh and Crowder has struggled so far offensively.

The rest of the roster Is a disaster. I find it laughable that people believe Derrick Rose or Dwyane Wade can play significant minutes for a contender. They are playing LeBron at PG b/c they have no real options at PG on the roster. The Rose/Calderon combo is easily the worst PG duo in the league.

People are assuming Isaiah is going to comeback and immediately pick up where he left off last year. I think it's a stretch that he even plays. Who knows how long it will be for he is even cleared to run.

You pose some good points. In their best interest, the Cavs should move away from Wade/Rose in crunch time in favor of Thomas, Smith, and even Korver, who at least shoots the 3 ball well. Perhaps Lue may play the big name guys when he shouldn't. And IT may not return back at 100%.

Still, it appears Lue is willing to make adjustments since Wade has already moved out of the starting lineup and his role could diminish when IT returns. While we can't rule out that Thomas may not be what he was in Boston, we can't rule out that Thomas won't be as good as he was in Sacramento/Phoenix where he had similar numbers to Irving. And like in 2006, the Wizards will have to deal with some questionable officiating. In the playoffs, I think the Cavs have 4 above average defenders - LeBron, Smith, Thompson, Crowder, and Shumpert. LeBron and Smith have raised their defense when the the last 3 postseasons have come, although hopefully they have lost a step defensively.

And who knows if the Cavs are done tweaking their roster, they could still get a buyout candidate and I would say there is a decent chance they move the Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline.

Overall, I like what I've seen from Washington this season. Porter and Beal have been great. Oubre has been a pleasant surprise. Wall has had a relatively bad week though as Washington has gone 1-2 over the past 3 games. If Porter wasn't having a career season or if Beal/Oubre struggled, there was a possibility that the Wizards could have lost to Philadelphia, Detroit, and Denver. Hopefully, this is just a bad start for Wall and he'll bounce back nicely in November and December like he did last season.

Overall though, I did like the Wizards chances in 2007 before Arenas/Butler went down with season ending injuries. Especially since the Cavs had struggled to defend Arenas. This was of course before LeBron had that 25 outburst to close out game 5 against the Pistons so it may have not mattered anyways. Although, it would have probably been testy much like the 2006 and 2008 series.