ImageImageImageImageImage

Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,634
And1: 8,994
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: RE: Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#781 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:00 pm

payitforward wrote:
MarcoPolo wrote:
Read on Twitter


Rose?? As a bench player bc he aint be playing in S5? Ain't he?

That would be typical Ernie. Rose is plain terrible.
It would be.

Last season, Jennings and Bogdanovic undermined the development of Satoransky. Defense got worse with the older, big name players, who were one-way players.

To show the close-mindedness, Brooks sticks with Beal at PG just so the Wizards can acquire an injured, broken down, distracted Derrick Rose. (Recently abandoned the Cavs. Got married to a pregnant GF while away from the Cavs. Did nothing good for the Bulls for years). Just the player EG and the Wizards want.

They go for names. They don't care about effective play and metrics. With Rose, this Wizards season will end like the rest. Round one or two, with Beal or Wall chucking shots.

Rose if they get him will horribly fail.
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
gambitx777
General Manager
Posts: 9,639
And1: 1,735
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#782 » by gambitx777 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:06 am

I would look back into Donald Sloan ! He wasn't playing badly ! I thought all along we should have kept him. Buy out Tim and sign some younger guys imo.
My ideal signing would be cutting Tim and signing David Stockton and Steven Zimmerman , I'd be ok with bringing back Sloan or Felix too!
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,634
And1: 8,994
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#783 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:34 pm

On principle I think they have to stick with Frazier. You cannot cut a guy for playing hard and having his nose broken through no fault of his own.

I would like bringing back Sloan if he's ready to play. Even better someone like Stockton or Zimmerman because they're only going to be a 10-day call up.

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
Dark Faze
Head Coach
Posts: 6,326
And1: 2,012
Joined: Dec 27, 2008

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#784 » by Dark Faze » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:00 pm

Might be a nice time to give Melo Trimble a look
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#785 » by Ruzious » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:49 pm

double-post
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#786 » by Ruzious » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:56 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I would look back into Donald Sloan ! He wasn't playing badly ! I thought all along we should have kept him. Buy out Tim and sign some younger guys imo.
My ideal signing would be cutting Tim and signing David Stockton and Steven Zimmerman , I'd be ok with bringing back Sloan or Felix too!

They already have 2 roster spaces which I'm not sure they're going to use. I don't see a benefit in cutting Frazier. Zimmerman gets only 16 minutes a game in the G League, and he looks too slow for today's NBA.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
BurtGummer
Freshman
Posts: 53
And1: 14
Joined: Feb 11, 2017

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#787 » by BurtGummer » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:49 pm

I just got a notice from The Score on my phone
Wizards seriously looking at Ty Lawson
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,971
And1: 7,877
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#788 » by payitforward » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:29 pm

BurtGummer wrote:I just got a notice from The Score on my phone
Wizards seriously looking at Ty Lawson

By far the best player available to us. Booze was his problem; if he's got that behind him, he could be helpful.

OTOH, if Frazier & Sato are back post-all star game, I don't understand why we are going after a PG.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
nuposse04
RealGM
Posts: 11,293
And1: 2,439
Joined: Jul 20, 2004
Location: on a rock
   

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#789 » by nuposse04 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:20 am

payitforward wrote:
BurtGummer wrote:I just got a notice from The Score on my phone
Wizards seriously looking at Ty Lawson

By far the best player available to us. Booze was his problem; if he's got that behind him, he could be helpful.

OTOH, if Frazier & Sato are back post-all star game, I don't understand why we are going after a PG.


A 10 day contract would make the most sense given the nature of Frazier's injury... perhaps this is just extra insurance or they are souring on Frazier? I'd be fairly salty if this cut into Sato's minutes, but his ability to hit 3s on catch-shoot scenarios should stop that from happening... but I'm kinda dubious of Brooks' love for vets... >.>

I'd like them to sign another wing player.. 2/3 guy, that and at least give Robinson some real minutes. His D-league highlights/ numbers are decent... no idea how he is as a defender.
Saqs
Sophomore
Posts: 158
And1: 19
Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#790 » by Saqs » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:47 am

I like the Ty Lawson thing. Hopefully it pans out. He's from here (PG county) so I'm routing for him.
User avatar
dangermouse
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,628
And1: 814
Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#791 » by dangermouse » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 am

If anything I hope a Ty signing eats into Meeks minutes. Sato has shown he is just as good with the ball as off ball. I can see Sato and Ty co-existing quite easily provided Ty is still a pretty good player.
Image
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,971
And1: 7,877
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#792 » by payitforward » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:12 am

Read on Twitter
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
User avatar
gambitx777
General Manager
Posts: 9,639
And1: 1,735
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#793 » by gambitx777 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:13 pm

Zimmerman is young and has some good skills TBH I'd rather give him minutes than mahinmi! At least the kid is young ! And if he pans out we could get a cheap back up for a couple years .
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,971
And1: 7,877
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#794 » by payitforward » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:48 pm

What will the Wizards look like next year?

Given Smith & Meeks picking up their options, which I'd say is 99.99% certain, we have 10 guaranteed contracts for next year at a total of $124.8m. Not including Scott, Frazier or McCullough from our current 13.

That's well into the luxury tax for 2/3 of a roster.

Lets assume that we make our #1 pick. That takes us to $126.6m, further into tax territory, & we still need 3 more guys for a minimum roster or 4 more for a full one.

We've talked about signing Scott for @ $3m. We might be signing Lawson with an option for next year at veteran minimum. I'm sure that's what we're trying to do, at least (as we should). If we don't get Lawson, we might re-sign Frazier instead at the $2m he made this year. Frazier or Lawson -- either way those are Ernie moves. They'd leave us at $131.5m or a little more -- for 13 guys.

I don't see why we'd sign both Lawson & Frazier, so we'd still need 1 or 2 more players. We might make our R2 pick. We might sign Devin Robinson. We might bring back Sheldon Mac. We might even bring back Chris McCullough.

Not much to indicate a better team next year -- unless that R1 pick is some kind of instant stud.

Unless I'm missing something, we can no longer get out of the luxury tax this year -- is that right?

& it also looks like it'll be inevitable next year as well -- unless we make a big move by trading one of Wall/Beal/Porter, or we find someone to eat Mahinmi's contract. Even trading Mahinmi might not do it.

That would make us repeat tax offenders, which adds a penalty. & since it's impossible to imagine avoiding the tax the following year & thereafter for as long as Wall/Beal/Porter are Wizards, I think that big move trade is likely this Summer.
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 67,049
And1: 19,359
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#795 » by nate33 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:04 pm

payitforward wrote:What will the Wizards look like next year?

Given Smith & Meeks picking up their options, which I'd say is 99.99% certain, we have 10 guaranteed contracts for next year at a total of $124.8m. Not including Scott, Frazier or McCullough from our current 13.

That's well into the luxury tax for 2/3 of a roster.

Lets assume that we make our #1 pick. That takes us to $126.6m, further into tax territory, & we still need 3 more guys for a minimum roster or 4 more for a full one.

We've talked about signing Scott for @ $3m. We might be signing Lawson with an option for next year at veteran minimum. I'm sure that's what we're trying to do, at least (as we should). If we don't get Lawson, we might re-sign Frazier instead at the $2m he made this year. Those are Ernie moves. They'd leave us at $131.5m or a little more -- for 13 guys.

I don't see why we'd sign both Lawson & Frazier, so we'd still need 1 or 2 more players. We might make our R2 pick. We might sign Devin Robinson. We might bring back Sheldon Mac. We might even bring back Chris McCullough.

Unless I'm missing something, we can no longer get out of the luxury tax this year -- is that right?

& it also looks like it'll be inevitable next year as well -- unless we make a big move by trading one of Wall/Beal/Porter, or we find someone to eat Mahinmi's contract. Even trading Mahinmi might not do it.

That would make us repeat tax offenders, which adds a penalty. & since it's impossible to imagine avoiding the tax the following year & thereafter for as long as Wall/Beal/Porter are Wizards, I think that big move trade is likely this Summer.

The Wizards will pull out all the stops to avoid the luxtax next year, because they'll be way over the year after and don't want to pay a repeater tax.

I think it's possible that Meeks opts out. He hates his lack of a role here, and he'd only be walking away from $3.5M (at least $1.3M of which he could get back if he signs elsewhere). Smith will stay though, unless he really doesn't care about the money.

I don't think the Wizards will pay more than vet-minimum money for anybody. They certainly won't pay Frazier or Lawson more than the minimum - not when Sato has proven to be an effective backup PG. Scott is the only guy I could see them paying more than the vet minimum, but I doubt they will unless they move somebody. So if we take your $126.6 figure and add 3 vet minimum guys, that $130M. If Meeks is gone (and replaced by a vet minimum guy, that's $128M. The luxtax threshold will be, what, $122M maybe? So, optimistically, they'll need to shed $6M.

They could stretch Smith and turn his $5.4M cap hit into a $1.8M cap hit, but then they'd have to replace his roster spot with another $815,000 vet minimum guy so it's only a $2.8M savings.

It looks like we won't be keeping our 2019 pick. Either that, or they make the Big Move this summer as you suggested. I'm pulling for a John Wall trade, but I expect it to be an Otto Porter trade. I really think a 3-way deal involving LA and Charlotte is just begging to happen (with Wall going to LA, Ball going to Charlotte, and Kemba here, with filler and picks to even things up).
User avatar
Dark Faze
Head Coach
Posts: 6,326
And1: 2,012
Joined: Dec 27, 2008

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#796 » by Dark Faze » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:28 pm

Wall is not being moved lol. Not with this GM and owner, who have shown repeatedly that they'll let follow their core people off a mountain before considering altering it.

I can't see an Otto move that could be made that would would work as a salary dump while also being able to even mildly justify it to the fanbase. Basically, you'd need to move him to a team that somehow had a top pick and expirings. Most teams don't value Otto for a top pick, or would be deep enough in a tank already to where it wouldn't make sense. The best chance at an Otto move might have been with Cleveland--something like Otto and the Net pick for expirings.

If an Ian move is to be made, it makes a lot more sense for it to be made this summer than next. If the move is made next year, then it's a real waste because you're only getting out of his contract a year early. Yes, there's considerable savings from the tax, but one years tax savings is not worth a first imo--because said player could represent a cheap quality player locked up, something the team will desperately need moving forward. I could see them still moving the pick if they could get a "good" contract back, something like the deals Jae Crowder and Morris were on--locked up long term on the cheap. But completely abandoning Ian and the 19 pick for years tax savings via an expiring is just very unlikely imo. It's just bad business no matter the size of the tax hit.
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#797 » by Ruzious » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:39 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Wall is not being moved lol. Not with this GM and owner, who have shown repeatedly that they'll let follow their core people off a mountain before considering altering it.

I can't see an Otto move that could be made that would would work as a salary dump while also being able to even mildly justify it to the fanbase. Basically, you'd need to move him to a team that somehow had a top pick and expirings. Most teams don't value Otto for a top pick, or would be deep enough in a tank already to where it wouldn't make sense. The best chance at an Otto move might have been with Cleveland--something like Otto and the Net pick for expirings.

If an Ian move is to be made, it makes a lot more sense for it to be made this summer than next. If the move is made next year, then it's a real waste because you're only getting out of his contract a year early. Yes, there's considerable savings from the tax, but one years tax savings is not worth a first imo--because said player could represent a cheap quality player locked up, something the team will desperately need moving forward. I could see them still moving the pick if they could get a "good" contract back, something like the deals Jae Crowder and Morris were on--locked up long term on the cheap. But completely abandoning Ian and the 19 pick for years tax savings via an expiring is just very unlikely imo. It's just bad business no matter the size of the tax hit.

Well, ya gotta remember that Wall was this franchise until this season. Now, he's the #2 guy, and they're winning without him - not to mention he's showed a lack of leadership with the Gortat thing. There's no longer a sure revolt from the fans if he is traded, and that's gotta factor in to management's decision. Then again, I don't know if there is a poison pill provision that's basically going to prevent them from trading Wall anyway.

I agree with you on Otto. As long as Pif's not GMing another team, we won't get a huge amount for him.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Dark Faze
Head Coach
Posts: 6,326
And1: 2,012
Joined: Dec 27, 2008

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#798 » by Dark Faze » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:42 pm

Is he really the #2 guy though?

I feel like guys are really taking his play this season too much at face value. You basically have to write everything he's done this year off and judge him based off last years numbers.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 67,049
And1: 19,359
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#799 » by nate33 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:56 pm

Dark Faze wrote:If an Ian move is to be made, it makes a lot more sense for it to be made this summer than next. If the move is made next year, then it's a real waste because you're only getting out of his contract a year early.

Nobody this summer with enough cap room to absorb Mahinmi's contract will be willing to do so merely for a late 2019 first. They're not devoting $15M (in dollars and cap room) for 2 years just for a the #22 pick. If that was an option, a trade would have been made at the Trade Deadline this year with Mahinmi and a pick going out, and an expiring coming back.

If Mahinmi is traded, it'll probably take place at the Trade Deadline next year. We will send out Mahinmi and a pick and take back an expiring contract. hopefully, that expiring contract will be a few million smaller than Mahinmi's outgoing contract, and that, along with savings from buying out Smith or Meeks, miht be enough to get us under the luxtax.

Dark Faze wrote:Yes, there's considerable savings from the tax, but one years tax savings is not worth a first imo--because said player could represent a cheap quality player locked up, something the team will desperately need moving forward.

Yes, it is. I don't think you fully appreciate the impact of the luxury tax. Let's just assume for argument's sake that the Wizards can't get under the luxtax next year so the 2019/20 season is a repeater tax year. And let's just assume that the payroll in 2019/20 without Mahinmi is just under the luxtax threshold, and counting Mahinmi it is $15M over the luxtax threshold. By dumping Mahinmi's final year, Ted would save that $15M in salary, plus $43.75M in luxtax fees. You read that right. Sacrificing a pick to dump Mahinmi could save Ted as much as $58.75M dollars!

Dark Faze wrote:I could see them still moving the pick if they could get a "good" contract back, something like the deals Jae Crowder and Morris were on--locked up long term on the cheap. But completely abandoning Ian and the 19 pick for years tax savings via an expiring is just very unlikely imo. It's just bad business no matter the size of the tax hit.

Do you still believe this after the luxtax calculation I presented to you?
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#800 » by Ruzious » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:58 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Is he really the #2 guy though?

I feel like guys are really taking his play this season too much at face value. You basically have to write everything he's done this year off and judge him based off last years numbers.

Thing is - we don't know if he's ever going to return to last year's form. I don't think there's a reason to assume he will. If he's not #2, it's more a matter of Beal not improving to the point that he seemed to be getting to. Either way, I don't see a fan revolt likely anymore if Wall is traded.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams

Return to Washington Wizards