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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#801 » by Dark Faze » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:02 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Is he really the #2 guy though?

I feel like guys are really taking his play this season too much at face value. You basically have to write everything he's done this year off and judge him based off last years numbers.


This being said though--I would trade him for a top 5 pick in this draft in order to land Trae Young. Basically, I'd trade him at any point for an elite PG prospect and expirings.

Not as high on the Kemba deal. Kemba will get a new max that averages about 8 million less a year than Wall. It will help the tax for sure, but it's not a dramatic boon. You can argue one way or another about him being better or not than Wall--I happen to think he's not, but even if he were, we'd still be in a salary position where we can't really add enough around the team to really compete for a title.

Things change drastically if we can swap Wall for a player who can get good pretty quick though. Imagine losing Wall and adding Trae Young...suddenly our window is open much wider and we can actually add another star through free agency. Although, free agency is kind of going to be awful for the next like 5 years but still lol
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#802 » by nate33 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:41 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:Is he really the #2 guy though?

I feel like guys are really taking his play this season too much at face value. You basically have to write everything he's done this year off and judge him based off last years numbers.


This being said though--I would trade him for a top 5 pick in this draft in order to land Trae Young. Basically, I'd trade him at any point for an elite PG prospect and expirings.

Not as high on the Kemba deal. Kemba will get a new max that averages about 8 million less a year than Wall. It will help the tax for sure, but it's not a dramatic boon. You can argue one way or another about him being better or not than Wall--I happen to think he's not, but even if he were, we'd still be in a salary position where we can't really add enough around the team to really compete for a title.

Things change drastically if we can swap Wall for a player who can get good pretty quick though. Imagine losing Wall and adding Trae Young...suddenly our window is open much wider and we can actually add another star through free agency. Although, free agency is kind of going to be awful for the next like 5 years but still lol

Kemba's contract is going to expire during a year when nobody will have any money available. There will not be a bunch of teams knocking down his door to sign him to a max contract. The handful of teams with cap room will throw it at Durant, Porzingis, and Towns or they'll be in rebuild mode looking for someone other than a undersized 29-year-old PG.

It was a huge mistake to extend Wall. We should have waited.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#803 » by Dark Faze » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:14 pm

nate33 wrote:Yes, it is. I don't think you fully appreciate the impact of the luxury tax. Let's just assume for argument's sake that the Wizards can't get under the luxtax next year so the 2019/20 season is a repeater tax year. And let's just assume that the payroll in 2019/20 without Mahinmi is just under the luxtax threshold, and counting Mahinmi it is $15M over the luxtax threshold. By dumping Mahinmi's final year, Ted would save that $15M in salary, plus $43.75M in luxtax fees. You read that right. Sacrificing a pick to dump Mahinmi could save Ted as much as $58.75M dollars!

Do you still believe this after the luxtax calculation I presented to you?


I was considering the stretch :X. If you stretch and waive Ian, that's 5.33 a season across 3 years. So basically it's a 10.66 million dollar cap savings in 19/20 + 5.33 million the next two years and the ability to keep your first versus wiping that entire slate clean (assuming there is a trade to be made) for the cost of a first.

I probably see it as more of an option than others. It's a complicated situation with no easy answers.

Realistically--Ian stretch and waive + Oubre trade is probably the best bang for your buck move in terms of getting a good return on investment (high pick) and managing your cap space.

If you stretched and waived Ian this summer while also being able to move Oubre for a pick between 10-15 (about what I see his value as), you give yourself a lot of breathing room.

Whereas, if you manage to move Ian with a pick, you haven't really put yourself in a position to avoid the tax much easier in future seasons.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#804 » by Dark Faze » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:22 pm

nate33 wrote:Kemba's contract is going to expire during a year when nobody will have any money available. There will not be a bunch of teams knocking down his door to sign him to a max contract. The handful of teams with cap room will throw it at Durant, Porzingis, and Towns or they'll be in rebuild mode looking for someone other than a undersized 29-year-old PG.

It was a huge mistake to extend Wall. We should have waited.


That's not really a bet I'd be willing to take lol. Realistically, nobody should have ponied up the money for Paul Millsap, a 32 year old PF whom, to be honest, didn't have blow your mind numbers in his contract year. He was 18, 8 and 4 and shot 44/31 :x. And that was definitely a team still on the rebuild--Jokic is 22!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#805 » by Kanyewest » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:38 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
nate33 wrote:Kemba's contract is going to expire during a year when nobody will have any money available. There will not be a bunch of teams knocking down his door to sign him to a max contract. The handful of teams with cap room will throw it at Durant, Porzingis, and Towns or they'll be in rebuild mode looking for someone other than a undersized 29-year-old PG.

It was a huge mistake to extend Wall. We should have waited.


That's not really a bet I'd be willing to take lol. Realistically, nobody should have ponied up the money for Paul Millsap, a 32 year old PF whom, to be honest, didn't have blow your mind numbers in his contract year. He was 18, 8 and 4 and shot 44/31 :x. And that was definitely a team still on the rebuild--Jokic is 22!


Weird thing is that the Nuggets are the 6th seed in the NBA and have only had Millsap for 16 games this season; they are only 2.5 games out of the 3rd seed. He has already missed more games this season than the previous 6 seasons combined. Perhaps they could get out of the first round this season. It will be interesting to see if Millsap can play at the same level as he was with Atlanta coming off a wrist injury.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#806 » by NatP4 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:43 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
nate33 wrote:Kemba's contract is going to expire during a year when nobody will have any money available. There will not be a bunch of teams knocking down his door to sign him to a max contract. The handful of teams with cap room will throw it at Durant, Porzingis, and Towns or they'll be in rebuild mode looking for someone other than a undersized 29-year-old PG.

It was a huge mistake to extend Wall. We should have waited.


That's not really a bet I'd be willing to take lol. Realistically, nobody should have ponied up the money for Paul Millsap, a 32 year old PF whom, to be honest, didn't have blow your mind numbers in his contract year. He was 18, 8 and 4 and shot 44/31 :x. And that was definitely a team still on the rebuild--Jokic is 22!


Tyreke Evans is playing on a one year 3 million $ deal and has been significantly better than Wall this year. People don’t realize how bad that Supermax is going to be
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#807 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:57 pm

NatP4 wrote:Tyreke Evans is playing on a one year 3 million $ deal and has been significantly better than Wall this year. People don’t realize how bad that Supermax is going to be

Yup.

With luck, Wall will play well when he gets back and allow us to trade him for some decent value in return. But the likelihood is that Wall is on the team for the next 6 years, soaking up 35% of our cap; and we end up trading one of Porter or Beal, or we trade away 1st round picks every other year to avoid luxtax problems.

Man I hate Ernie Grunfeld.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#808 » by Dark Faze » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:02 pm

NatP4 wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:
nate33 wrote:Kemba's contract is going to expire during a year when nobody will have any money available. There will not be a bunch of teams knocking down his door to sign him to a max contract. The handful of teams with cap room will throw it at Durant, Porzingis, and Towns or they'll be in rebuild mode looking for someone other than a undersized 29-year-old PG.

It was a huge mistake to extend Wall. We should have waited.




That's not really a bet I'd be willing to take lol. Realistically, nobody should have ponied up the money for Paul Millsap, a 32 year old PF whom, to be honest, didn't have blow your mind numbers in his contract year. He was 18, 8 and 4 and shot 44/31 :x. And that was definitely a team still on the rebuild--Jokic is 22!


Tyreke Evans is playing on a one year 3 million $ deal and has been significantly better than Wall this year. People don’t realize how bad that Supermax is going to be


Wall is zombie wall this year. It's really pointless to talk about his play. It's a bad contract, but at the same time we can't get free agents here anyway, as was proven with the Mahinmi insanity.

I don't think the league intended the tax to be working this way either. A lot of tax teams are just trying to be competitive. The repeater tax was designed against GS and Cleveland kind of teams, not middling ones. A change is needed imo
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#809 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:11 pm

Dark Faze wrote:I don't think the league intended the tax to be working this way either. A lot of tax teams are just trying to be competitive. The repeater tax was designed against GS and Cleveland kind of teams, not middling ones. A change is needed imo

Yes, the rapid raise in salary cap really screwed the handful of teams who happened to have cap room at the time. Dozens of other teams made the same mistakes that we did. That doesn't absolve EG, but it shows that other teams are stupid too.

To some extent, teams like Golden State were lucky more so than smart. It just so happened that Curry was on a long contract signed when he had ankle issues, and Draymond and Klay signed max (or near-max) extensions the year before the salary cap ballooned.

The big mistake was the players union insisting that the new TV contract money be applied immediately to the salary cap limits rather than gradually raising the cap. They could have found another fair way to distribute that money. Basically, the players union ended up screwing over the superstars who hit free agency in 2018 and 2019 in favor of paying role players crazy money in 2016 and 2017.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#810 » by pcbothwel » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:42 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:I don't think the league intended the tax to be working this way either. A lot of tax teams are just trying to be competitive. The repeater tax was designed against GS and Cleveland kind of teams, not middling ones. A change is needed imo

Yes, the rapid raise in salary cap really screwed the handful of teams who happened to have cap room at the time. Dozens of other teams made the same mistakes that we did. That doesn't absolve EG, but it shows that other teams are stupid too.

To some extent, teams like Golden State were lucky more so than smart. It just so happened that Curry was on a long contract signed when he had ankle issues, and Draymond and Klay signed max (or near-max) extensions the year before the salary cap ballooned.

The big mistake was the players union insisting that the new TV contract money be applied immediately to the salary cap limits rather than gradually raising the cap. They could have found another fair way to distribute that money. Basically, the players union ended up screwing over the superstars who hit free agency in 2018 and 2019 in favor of paying role players crazy money in 2016 and 2017.


Yup. My 1,2,3 was KD, Horford, Otto.
The minute KD Horford went to Boston we should of given Otto an immediate 10-15M raise, and then a Covington like extension of 4/44M. Hell, I think we could of gotten him for 4/40M if we gave him 18-20M last year instead of his 5.9M he earned instead.

Could you imagine having signed Dedmon for 3/18M and Porter for the extension above.
That would be about 16M for them two instead of 47M for Porter, Mahinmi, Smith and no 2017 1st... My god
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#811 » by payitforward » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:46 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:What will the Wizards look like next year?

Given Smith & Meeks picking up their options, which I'd say is 99.99% certain, we have 10 guaranteed contracts for next year at a total of $124.8m. Not including Scott, Frazier or McCullough from our current 13.

That's well into the luxury tax for 2/3 of a roster.

Lets assume that we make our #1 pick. That takes us to $126.6m, further into tax territory, & we still need 3 more guys for a minimum roster or 4 more for a full one.

We've talked about signing Scott for @ $3m. We might be signing Lawson with an option for next year at veteran minimum. I'm sure that's what we're trying to do, at least (as we should). If we don't get Lawson, we might re-sign Frazier instead at the $2m he made this year. Those are Ernie moves. They'd leave us at $131.5m or a little more -- for 13 guys.

I don't see why we'd sign both Lawson & Frazier, so we'd still need 1 or 2 more players. We might make our R2 pick. We might sign Devin Robinson. We might bring back Sheldon Mac. We might even bring back Chris McCullough.

Unless I'm missing something, we can no longer get out of the luxury tax this year -- is that right?

& it also looks like it'll be inevitable next year as well -- unless we make a big move by trading one of Wall/Beal/Porter, or we find someone to eat Mahinmi's contract. Even trading Mahinmi might not do it.

That would make us repeat tax offenders, which adds a penalty. & since it's impossible to imagine avoiding the tax the following year & thereafter for as long as Wall/Beal/Porter are Wizards, I think that big move trade is likely this Summer.

The Wizards will pull out all the stops to avoid the luxtax next year, because they'll be way over the year after and don't want to pay a repeater tax.

I think it's possible that Meeks opts out. He hates his lack of a role here, and he'd only be walking away from $3.5M (at least $1.3M of which he could get back if he signs elsewhere). Smith will stay though, unless he really doesn't care about the money.

I don't think the Wizards will pay more than vet-minimum money for anybody. They certainly won't pay Frazier or Lawson more than the minimum - not when Sato has proven to be an effective backup PG. Scott is the only guy I could see them paying more than the vet minimum, but I doubt they will unless they move somebody. So if we take your $126.6 figure and add 3 vet minimum guys, that $130M. If Meeks is gone (and replaced by a vet minimum guy, that's $128M. The luxtax threshold will be, what, $122M maybe? So, optimistically, they'll need to shed $6M.

They could stretch Smith and turn his $5.4M cap hit into a $1.8M cap hit, but then they'd have to replace his roster spot with another $815,000 vet minimum guy so it's only a $2.8M savings.

It looks like we won't be keeping our 2019 pick. Either that, or they make the Big Move this summer as you suggested. I'm pulling for a John Wall trade, but I expect it to be an Otto Porter trade. I really think a 3-way deal involving LA and Charlotte is just begging to happen (with Wall going to LA, Ball going to Charlotte, and Kemba here, with filler and picks to even things up).

I agree right down the line, & I don't think they'll re-sign Scott for more than the vet-minimum either.

I chuckled when I read that, declining his option, Meeks would "...only be walking away from $3.5M" -- :) . Of course you may be right, who knows, he may decline it; but the guy is near the end of his career, & when it's over he'll never again earn 7 figures annually. I know I would find it difficult to walk away!

For the rest, your logic is the same as mine -- & I agree that it's more likely Otto Porter who goes than either Wall or Beal. That too would be typical of Ernie, as it's pretty clear in my mind that Otto is the best player of the 3.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#812 » by NatP4 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:51 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Tyreke Evans is playing on a one year 3 million $ deal and has been significantly better than Wall this year. People don’t realize how bad that Supermax is going to be

Yup.

With luck, Wall will play well when he gets back and allow us to trade him for some decent value in return. But the likelihood is that Wall is on the team for the next 6 years, soaking up 35% of our cap; and we end up trading one of Porter or Beal, or we trade away 1st round picks every other year to avoid luxtax problems.

Man I hate Ernie Grunfeld.


How did Ernie Grunfeld give Andrew Nicholson 4 years 26 million? I still can’t figure out how someone can be that stupid.

But the truth is this: if the wizards lose in the 2nd round or earlier, they will look to make a big change this offseason, if they get any further than the 2nd round, Wall is a wizard for life, reason being, no one is taking on that deal after this coming offseason. Wall is owed 90 million after he turns 30, no team in the league wants that.

I wish we could trade him and Oubre to Cleveland for their lottery pick and Kevin Love, but they would never do that. How fun would Luke Doncic be? We would also have cap space when no one else does in 2019. Beal-Porter-Sato-Love-Doncic-Mahinmi-2019 1st round pick would only make up about 90ish mill Maybe we could steal Klay Thompson or Kemba Walker then
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#813 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:51 pm

payitforward wrote:I chuckled when I read that, declining his option, Meeks would "...only be walking away from $3.5M" -- :) . Of course you may be right, who knows, he may decline it; but the guy is near the end of his career, & when it's over he'll never again earn 7 figures annually. I know I would find it difficult to walk away!

Yeah, it does sound kind of absurd when you say it out loud. But realistically, assuming he has a vet minimum contract lined up elsewhere, it's only a $2.2M pay cut. He has made $22M over the past 4 years and $27M overall in his career, so maybe that $2M doesn't mean as much to him as an opportunity to play meaningful minutes does. We'll just have to see.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#814 » by Dark Faze » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:53 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Tyreke Evans is playing on a one year 3 million $ deal and has been significantly better than Wall this year. People don’t realize how bad that Supermax is going to be

Yup.

With luck, Wall will play well when he gets back and allow us to trade him for some decent value in return. But the likelihood is that Wall is on the team for the next 6 years, soaking up 35% of our cap; and we end up trading one of Porter or Beal, or we trade away 1st round picks every other year to avoid luxtax problems.

Man I hate Ernie Grunfeld.


How did Ernie Grunfeld give Andrew Nicholson 4 years 26 million? I still can’t figure out how someone can be that stupid.

But the truth is this: if the wizards lose in the 2nd round or earlier, they will look to make a big change this offseason, if they get any further than the 2nd round, Wall is a wizard for life, reason being, no one is taking on that deal after this coming offseason. Wall is owed 90 million after he turns 30, no team in the league wants that.

I wish we could trade him and Oubre to Cleveland for their lottery pick and Kevin Love, but they would never do that. How fun would Luke Doncic be? We would also have cap space when no one else does in 2019. Beal-Porter-Sato-Love-Doncic-Mahinmi-2019 1st round pick would only make up about 90ish mill Maybe we could steal Klay Thompson or Kemba Walker then


I'm starting to think teams would offer something for Wall even at his salary, it's just a matter if we'd care at all for what's coming back lol. For example, the Pelicans wouldn't hesitate to trade us Jrue Holiday and Solomon Hill to unite Wall with Davis and a (hopefully) healthy Cousins. But do we want Jrue for 4 more years and Solomon Hill for two more? Lol.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#815 » by NatP4 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:05 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:Yup.

With luck, Wall will play well when he gets back and allow us to trade him for some decent value in return. But the likelihood is that Wall is on the team for the next 6 years, soaking up 35% of our cap; and we end up trading one of Porter or Beal, or we trade away 1st round picks every other year to avoid luxtax problems.

Man I hate Ernie Grunfeld.


How did Ernie Grunfeld give Andrew Nicholson 4 years 26 million? I still can’t figure out how someone can be that stupid.

But the truth is this: if the wizards lose in the 2nd round or earlier, they will look to make a big change this offseason, if they get any further than the 2nd round, Wall is a wizard for life, reason being, no one is taking on that deal after this coming offseason. Wall is owed 90 million after he turns 30, no team in the league wants that.

I wish we could trade him and Oubre to Cleveland for their lottery pick and Kevin Love, but they would never do that. How fun would Luke Doncic be? We would also have cap space when no one else does in 2019. Beal-Porter-Sato-Love-Doncic-Mahinmi-2019 1st round pick would only make up about 90ish mill Maybe we could steal Klay Thompson or Kemba Walker then


I'm starting to think teams would offer something for Wall even at his salary, it's just a matter if we'd care at all for what's coming back lol. For example, the Pelicans wouldn't hesitate to trade us Jrue Holiday and Solomon Hill to unite Wall with Davis and a (hopefully) healthy Cousins. But do we want Jrue for 4 more years and Solomon Hill for two more? Lol.


I really don’t know, maybe, but what team wants to pay Wall 46 million at age 31??? That might honestly be the worst contract in the NBA with the way his health is trending. How well do PGs that rely on athletic ability age anyways? Not good.

After this summer passes, can we even get a 1st round pick with some expiring filler? Would any team in the NBA take on 90 million for 30 year old Wall to get his 28&29 year old seasons? If it was actually 2 prime years of a superstar caliber player, maybe, but what teams need a pretty good 2nd tier PG for a couple years? Cleveland? San Antonio?

Just look at that Blake Griffin trade, we’re in some trouble. I just want another 1st round pick and some salary relief
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#816 » by NatP4 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:08 pm

Would NOP throw in their 1st round pick with Holiday for Wall?

Holiday is significantly better than Wall, but do they know that?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#817 » by 80sballboy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:12 pm

NatP4 wrote:Would NOP throw in their 1st round pick with Holiday for Wall?

Holiday is significantly better than Wall, but do they know that?


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#818 » by NatP4 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:19 pm

80sballboy wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Would NOP throw in their 1st round pick with Holiday for Wall?

Holiday is significantly better than Wall, but do they know that?


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:


Well, this season I should add, with this trade taking place in the upcoming offseason. Not too different from the clippers trading Griffin after he had a horrible year at the same age
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#819 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:24 pm

NatP4 wrote:Would NOP throw in their 1st round pick with Holiday for Wall?

Holiday is significantly better than Wall, but do they know that?

Holiday isn't better than Wall. At his best, he might be pretty close, but Holiday can't stay healthy.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#820 » by Illmatic12 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:25 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Wall is not being moved lol. Not with this GM and owner, who have shown repeatedly that they'll let follow their core people off a mountain before considering altering it.

I can't see an Otto move that could be made that would would work as a salary dump while also being able to even mildly justify it to the fanbase. Basically, you'd need to move him to a team that somehow had a top pick and expirings. Most teams don't value Otto for a top pick, or would be deep enough in a tank already to where it wouldn't make sense. The best chance at an Otto move might have been with Cleveland--something like Otto and the Net pick for expirings.

If an Ian move is to be made, it makes a lot more sense for it to be made this summer than next. If the move is made next year, then it's a real waste because you're only getting out of his contract a year early. Yes, there's considerable savings from the tax, but one years tax savings is not worth a first imo--because said player could represent a cheap quality player locked up, something the team will desperately need moving forward. I could see them still moving the pick if they could get a "good" contract back, something like the deals Jae Crowder and Morris were on--locked up long term on the cheap. But completely abandoning Ian and the 19 pick for years tax savings via an expiring is just very unlikely imo. It's just bad business no matter the size of the tax hit.

If I had to guess, Porter will be traded within ~12 months. I see people discussing trading Wall but that is pretty obviously not going to be something the Wizards consider. Trading Porter, for various reasons, is most likely they course of action the organization will take. It was pretty obvious the moment he signed that max contract that he wouldn't be finishing the deal out in DC.. in terms of the optics, it's just too much money for the "third/sometimes fourth"-wheel kinda player that he is currently. Otto is a very good role player, but his salary is hard to justify if he never elevates his role on the team.


There are plenty of deals to be made, a lot of teams could out there could desperately use Porter's length + shooting and don't have better uses for that salary. Essentially you'd be looking for expiring contracts + young player/pick. Look at Denver for instance, I see a lot of potential trades there. For instance

Porter + 2nd for Chandler + Faried + J Hernangomez + DEN protected 1st.

Chandler and Faried deals expire and lower Washington's tax bill after 2019. The Wiz also get the Den 1st rounder to add another cheap replacement wing prospect in the draft, and Hernangomez who is young and somewhat intriguing. For Denver, they have no starting-caliber SF and Otto would fit like a glove next to Jokic longterm. This locks them into a Murray/Harris/Porter/Lyles/Jokic core which is pretty killer and almost has GSW-esque upside offensively.

Basically for any team that needs desperately needs wing shooting and has expirings + a young prospect/future picks, you could probably try to work a Porter trade.

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