Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

[Illmatic12]

Would NOP throw in their 1st round pick with Holiday for Wall?

Holiday is significantly better than Wall, but do they know that?

He's pretty obviously trolling on anything Wall-related.. it's been his MO for years now

[80sballboy]

Would NOP throw in their 1st round pick with Holiday for Wall?

Holiday is significantly better than Wall, but do they know that?

Well, this season I should add, with this trade taking place in the upcoming offseason. Not too different from the clippers trading Griffin after he had a horrible year at the same age

He's not much better this season. He's shooting 32% from beyond the arc and is averaging around 5 assists per game playing with two All-Star post players. He's a good player. John is very good to great depending on health. No metric is going to make me believe that Holiday is much better this year or ever.

Now I never said I was opposed to trading John. That contract is going to crush us and it's only worth it if it leads to a trip to the Finals. I think everything depends on the playoffs. He doesn't have to change his game and become Sato but he does need to make that extra pass more instead of chucking up mid-range bricks early in the shot clock.

[NatP4]

Well, this season I should add, with this trade taking place in the upcoming offseason. Not too different from the clippers trading Griffin after he had a horrible year at the same age

He's not much better this season. He's shooting 32% from beyond the arc and is averaging around 5 assists per game playing with two All-Star post players. He's a good player. John is very good to great depending on health. No metric is going to make me believe that Holiday is much better this year or ever.

Now I never said I was opposed to trading John. That contract is going to crush us and it's only worth it if it leads to a trip to the Finals. I think everything depends on the playoffs. He doesn't have to change his game and become Sato but he does need to make that extra pass more instead of chucking up mid-range bricks early in the shot clock.

I don’t even care what Wall does on offense, we are a much better team when he plays defense. He used to put up 4.2 defensive win shares, the guy used to be elite on that side of the ball, now he’s a huge negative. That would be my wish for his game.

I can’t see us even competing with Boston down the road with Walls contract and their young players and Brad Stevens, plus the Cavs new roster and another lottery pick.

[NatP4]

Would NOP throw in their 1st round pick with Holiday for Wall?

Holiday is significantly better than Wall, but do they know that?

He's pretty obviously trolling on anything Wall-related.. it's been his MO for years now

You gotta stop this Illmatic, you wanted the wizards to trade Oubre and Porter for Rudy Gay based on a summer league wall interview where you thought he was calling for a “real” small forward. Like you actually wanted to see that happen. Imagine if they actually did that. We would have absolutely no future right now. Stop calling people trolls for not being Wall fanboys, it’s nonsense

Jrue Holiday is better than Wall this season easily. Holiday is one of the best defenders at the point guard position and has a TS about 6% higher. Where is the debate even? Wall has a couple more assists per game?? Holiday also averages a turnover less per game.

[NatP4]

Wall is not being moved lol. Not with this GM and owner, who have shown repeatedly that they'll let follow their core people off a mountain before considering altering it.

I can't see an Otto move that could be made that would would work as a salary dump while also being able to even mildly justify it to the fanbase. Basically, you'd need to move him to a team that somehow had a top pick and expirings. Most teams don't value Otto for a top pick, or would be deep enough in a tank already to where it wouldn't make sense. The best chance at an Otto move might have been with Cleveland--something like Otto and the Net pick for expirings.

If an Ian move is to be made, it makes a lot more sense for it to be made this summer than next. If the move is made next year, then it's a real waste because you're only getting out of his contract a year early. Yes, there's considerable savings from the tax, but one years tax savings is not worth a first imo--because said player could represent a cheap quality player locked up, something the team will desperately need moving forward. I could see them still moving the pick if they could get a "good" contract back, something like the deals Jae Crowder and Morris were on--locked up long term on the cheap. But completely abandoning Ian and the 19 pick for years tax savings via an expiring is just very unlikely imo. It's just bad business no matter the size of the tax hit.

If I had to guess, Porter will be traded within ~12 months. I see people discussing trading Wall but that is pretty obviously not going to be something the Wizards consider. Trading Porter, for various reasons, is most likely they course of action the organization will take. It was pretty obvious the moment he signed that max contract that he wouldn't be finishing the deal out in DC.. in terms of the optics, it's just too much money for the "third/sometimes fourth"-wheel kinda player that he is currently. Otto is a very good role player, but his salary is hard to justify if he never elevates his role on the team.


There are plenty of deals to be made, a lot of teams could out there could desperately use Porter's length + shooting and don't have better uses for that salary. Essentially you'd be looking for expiring contracts + young player/pick. Look at Denver for instance, I see a lot of potential trades there. For instance

Porter + 2nd for Chandler + Faried + J Hernangomez + DEN protected 1st.

Chandler and Faried deals expire and lower Washington's tax bill after 2019. The Wiz also get the Den 1st rounder to add another cheap replacement wing prospect in the draft, and Hernangomez who is young and somewhat intriguing. For Denver, they have no starting-caliber SF and Otto would fit like a glove next to Jokic longterm. This locks them into a Murray/Harris/Porter/Lyles/Jokic core which is pretty killer and almost has GSW-esque upside offensively.

Basically for any team that needs desperately needs wing shooting and has expirings + a young prospect/future picks, you could probably try to work a Porter trade.

Why though? That doesn’t make us better now or in the future? How is paying your best player a max contract the problem as opposed to paying a non superstar a Supermax?

In that deal we are trading away Porter and a draft pick for essentially a protected 1st from Denver. Why in the hell would we ever do that?

[Illmatic12]

He's pretty obviously trolling on anything Wall-related.. it's been his MO for years now

You gotta stop this Illmatic, you wanted the wizards to trade Oubre and Porter for Rudy Gay based on a summer league wall interview where you thought he was calling for a “real” small forward. Like you actually wanted to see that happen. Imagine if they actually did that. We would have absolutely no future right now. Stop calling people trolls for not being Wall fanboys, it’s nonsense

Jrue Holiday is better than Wall this season easily. Holiday is one of the best defenders at the point guard position and has a TS about 6% higher. Where is the debate even? Wall has a couple more assists per game?? Holiday also averages a turnover less per game.

I don't remember saying that. In fact I've been one of the highest on Oubre since the Wizards drafted him, I can't ever remember proposing to trade KO, except when the Paul George discussions came up.. and I can assure that whatever I've posted wasn't just me trolling to get a reaction.

You've become recognized by most posters for consistently posting anti-Wall content, outlandishly negative stuff about JW obviously trying to get a reaction.. on the internet there's a word for people who do that

[NatP4]

He's pretty obviously trolling on anything Wall-related.. it's been his MO for years now

You gotta stop this Illmatic, you wanted the wizards to trade Oubre and Porter for Rudy Gay based on a summer league wall interview where you thought he was calling for a “real” small forward. Like you actually wanted to see that happen. Imagine if they actually did that. We would have absolutely no future right now. Stop calling people trolls for not being Wall fanboys, it’s nonsense

Jrue Holiday is better than Wall this season easily. Holiday is one of the best defenders at the point guard position and has a TS about 6% higher. Where is the debate even? Wall has a couple more assists per game?? Holiday also averages a turnover less per game.

I don't remember saying that. In fact I've been one of the highest on Oubre since the Wizards drafted him, I can't ever remember proposing to trade KO, except when the Paul George discussions came up.. and I can assure that whatever I've posted wasn't just me trolling to get a reaction.

You've become recognized by most posters for consistently posting anti-Wall content, outlandishly negative stuff about JW obviously trying to get a reaction.. on the internet there's a word for people who do that

You 100% did say that, all summer, and you know you did. Rudy Gay LOL. You would literally dissect Wall interviews looking for hints at his secret Otto Porter hatred. My point wasn’t that you were saying that to get a reaction, it was that someone who makes such an idiotic proposal calling someone else a troll for their opinion is hilarious.

“Outlandishly negative” I said Jrue Holiday was better than him, which he is this season if you look at actual stats. I criticize Wall all of last year for starting to develop bad habits, now everyone sees these things and begins saying the same things, I get personal attacks from salty Wall fanboys for saying it all along. It’s the way world works I guess.

What is so outlandish about my wall criticism anyways? I said he’s not a leader, I said he’s inefficient, he doesn’t play defense. Which of those things isn’t true now? We have turmoil in the locker room, players are taking shots at him on social media, Wall has a TS% of .500, his defensive metrics are god awful. How come he’s the only player you aren’t allowed to criticize while fans trash any and every other player on the team any chance they can get.

[Illmatic12]

Wall is not being moved lol. Not with this GM and owner, who have shown repeatedly that they'll let follow their core people off a mountain before considering altering it.

I can't see an Otto move that could be made that would would work as a salary dump while also being able to even mildly justify it to the fanbase. Basically, you'd need to move him to a team that somehow had a top pick and expirings. Most teams don't value Otto for a top pick, or would be deep enough in a tank already to where it wouldn't make sense. The best chance at an Otto move might have been with Cleveland--something like Otto and the Net pick for expirings.

If an Ian move is to be made, it makes a lot more sense for it to be made this summer than next. If the move is made next year, then it's a real waste because you're only getting out of his contract a year early. Yes, there's considerable savings from the tax, but one years tax savings is not worth a first imo--because said player could represent a cheap quality player locked up, something the team will desperately need moving forward. I could see them still moving the pick if they could get a "good" contract back, something like the deals Jae Crowder and Morris were on--locked up long term on the cheap. But completely abandoning Ian and the 19 pick for years tax savings via an expiring is just very unlikely imo. It's just bad business no matter the size of the tax hit.

If I had to guess, Porter will be traded within ~12 months. I see people discussing trading Wall but that is pretty obviously not going to be something the Wizards consider. Trading Porter, for various reasons, is most likely they course of action the organization will take. It was pretty obvious the moment he signed that max contract that he wouldn't be finishing the deal out in DC.. in terms of the optics, it's just too much money for the "third/sometimes fourth"-wheel kinda player that he is currently. Otto is a very good role player, but his salary is hard to justify if he never elevates his role on the team.


There are plenty of deals to be made, a lot of teams could out there could desperately use Porter's length + shooting and don't have better uses for that salary. Essentially you'd be looking for expiring contracts + young player/pick. Look at Denver for instance, I see a lot of potential trades there. For instance

Porter + 2nd for Chandler + Faried + J Hernangomez + DEN protected 1st.

Chandler and Faried deals expire and lower Washington's tax bill after 2019. The Wiz also get the Den 1st rounder to add another cheap replacement wing prospect in the draft, and Hernangomez who is young and somewhat intriguing. For Denver, they have no starting-caliber SF and Otto would fit like a glove next to Jokic longterm. This locks them into a Murray/Harris/Porter/Lyles/Jokic core which is pretty killer and almost has GSW-esque upside offensively.

Basically for any team that needs desperately needs wing shooting and has expirings + a young prospect/future picks, you could probably try to work a Porter trade.

Why though? That doesn’t make us better now or in the future? How is paying your best player a max contract the problem as opposed to paying a non superstar a Supermax?

In that deal we are trading away Porter and a draft pick for essentially a protected 1st from Denver. Why in the hell would we ever do that?

Why? Because the Wizards ownership won't want to pay the repeater tax and moving Porter's deal is going to be the easiest move they can make, with the least moving parts involved.

And look at how the best teams in the league are set up. Overpaying for high-end players (ie the type of guys who can carry you in a playoff series) is absolutely not as detrimental to a team as overpaying for role players. Look at how the best teams in the league are set up.. the Celtics have 3 max All-Stars, and everyone else making under $6 million. You simply can't avoid overpaying for stars in the NBA, the market sets their value. But you can avoid overpaying for players like Porter.

[Dark Faze]

John has his big time contract, got an all-star bid with a zombie knee, and recently signed with Adidas. He's always been a past first guy at heart. In the chase for other things, I think he tried to become a more offensive big stat stuffing kind of guard. I think now with a lot of the business side of things locked up, and seeing that his teammates can clearly take a large part of the scoring load off of him, I fully expect John to return like a guy who's been watching how the team has ran with him out. There should be no pressure for him to not play a more system, defensive oriented brand of basketball if he's healthy.

[NatP4]

If I had to guess, Porter will be traded within ~12 months. I see people discussing trading Wall but that is pretty obviously not going to be something the Wizards consider. Trading Porter, for various reasons, is most likely they course of action the organization will take. It was pretty obvious the moment he signed that max contract that he wouldn't be finishing the deal out in DC.. in terms of the optics, it's just too much money for the "third/sometimes fourth"-wheel kinda player that he is currently. Otto is a very good role player, but his salary is hard to justify if he never elevates his role on the team.


There are plenty of deals to be made, a lot of teams could out there could desperately use Porter's length + shooting and don't have better uses for that salary. Essentially you'd be looking for expiring contracts + young player/pick. Look at Denver for instance, I see a lot of potential trades there. For instance

Porter + 2nd for Chandler + Faried + J Hernangomez + DEN protected 1st.

Chandler and Faried deals expire and lower Washington's tax bill after 2019. The Wiz also get the Den 1st rounder to add another cheap replacement wing prospect in the draft, and Hernangomez who is young and somewhat intriguing. For Denver, they have no starting-caliber SF and Otto would fit like a glove next to Jokic longterm. This locks them into a Murray/Harris/Porter/Lyles/Jokic core which is pretty killer and almost has GSW-esque upside offensively.

Basically for any team that needs desperately needs wing shooting and has expirings + a young prospect/future picks, you could probably try to work a Porter trade.

Why though? That doesn’t make us better now or in the future? How is paying your best player a max contract the problem as opposed to paying a non superstar a Supermax?

In that deal we are trading away Porter and a draft pick for essentially a protected 1st from Denver. Why in the hell would we ever do that?

Why? Because the Wizards ownership won't want to pay the repeater tax and moving Porter's deal is going to be the easiest move they can make, with the least moving parts involved.

And look at how the best teams in the league are set up. Overpaying for high-end players (ie the type of guys who can carry you in a playoff series) is absolutely not as detrimental to a team as overpaying for role players. Look at how the best teams in the league are set up.. the Celtics have 3 max All-Stars, and everyone else making under $6 million. You simply can't avoid overpaying for stars in the NBA, the market sets their value. But you can avoid overpaying for players like Porter.

Where does that come from though? What evidence do we have of Wall carrying us in a playoff series? How is Wall more valuable than Porter? If we were talking about Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry sure, Wall isn’t a superstar. You can’t get away with paying a 2nd tier Point guard 46 million. This team is showing you that you can plug in a similar player to Otto Porter at point guard and be successful. Who is the Otto Porter guard version out there? Gary Harris? If you plugged him in alongside Beal instead of Wall at a regular max contract price, which team would be better?

I’m not saying I have the answers, but look at what the current team is doing, are you sure you aren’t overstating Walls impact? If he was some prime time playoff performer this is a different conversation. The 15 million dollar gap between Walls deal and a regular max contract is killer. Otto Porter is an elite player

I mean really, pay Wall 40 million and trade Porter for a protected late 1st??

[Dark Faze]

Porter isn't the easiest way out of the tax issues--trading Oubre is

[Illmatic12]

Why though? That doesn’t make us better now or in the future? How is paying your best player a max contract the problem as opposed to paying a non superstar a Supermax?

In that deal we are trading away Porter and a draft pick for essentially a protected 1st from Denver. Why in the hell would we ever do that?

Why? Because the Wizards ownership won't want to pay the repeater tax and moving Porter's deal is going to be the easiest move they can make, with the least moving parts involved.

And look at how the best teams in the league are set up. Overpaying for high-end players (ie the type of guys who can carry you in a playoff series) is absolutely not as detrimental to a team as overpaying for role players. Look at how the best teams in the league are set up.. the Celtics have 3 max All-Stars, and everyone else making under $6 million. You simply can't avoid overpaying for stars in the NBA, the market sets their value. But you can avoid overpaying for players like Porter.

Where does that come from though? What evidence do we have of Wall carrying us in a playoff series? How is Wall more valuable than Porter? If we were talking about Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry sure, Wall isn’t a superstar. You can’t get away with paying a 2nd tier Point guard 46 million. This team is showing you that you can plug in a similar player to Otto Porter at point guard and be successful. Who is the Otto Porter guard version out there? Gary Harris? If you plugged him in alongside Beal instead of Wall at a regular max contract price, which team would be better?

I’m not saying I have the answers, but look at what the current team is doing, are you sure you aren’t overstating Walls impact? If he was some prime time playoff performer this is a different conversation. The 15 million dollar gap between Walls deal and a regular max contract is killer. Otto Porter is an elite player

I mean really, pay Wall 40 million and trade Porter for a protected late 1st??

"What evidence do we have of Wall carrying us in a playoff series?" .. this is what I'm talking about lol, you expect people to assume you're serious and not trolling?

Read on Twitter

"This team is showing you that you can plug in a similar player to Otto Porter at point guard and be successful."


So which East team are the Wizards beating in a playoff series starting Satoransky at point guard? Maybe let's not get too excited over a couple regular seasons games..

Wall averaged 27/10/4/stls/1blk last postseason and was one of the top performers in the 2017 playoffs. Otto Porter is a good player but he is NOT elite. He's never going to be the best player on the floor in a series. He averaged 10ppg vs Atlanta and was outplayed by Taurean Prince a rookie. In the NBA you ideally want to pay max money only to players with proven star talent ie Wall, Beal.. not players like Porter.


Look Otto doesn't have the worst contract in the league or anything, but with the salary constraints Wash is going to face he will be the most expendable of our high salary players. I wish we could keep the Wall/Beal/Porter/Oubre core and still add more around them, but unfortunately the salary cap is a thing, and Grunfeld has handicapped us into the situation we're in now.

[Ruzious]

Oubre and our 1st rounder to either Memphis, Chicago, Phoenix, Cleveland (Brooklyn), Sacramento, Atlanta, Dallas for their 1st pick - trying to get in top 7 or 8.

[NatP4]

Why? Because the Wizards ownership won't want to pay the repeater tax and moving Porter's deal is going to be the easiest move they can make, with the least moving parts involved.

And look at how the best teams in the league are set up. Overpaying for high-end players (ie the type of guys who can carry you in a playoff series) is absolutely not as detrimental to a team as overpaying for role players. Look at how the best teams in the league are set up.. the Celtics have 3 max All-Stars, and everyone else making under $6 million. You simply can't avoid overpaying for stars in the NBA, the market sets their value. But you can avoid overpaying for players like Porter.

Where does that come from though? What evidence do we have of Wall carrying us in a playoff series? How is Wall more valuable than Porter? If we were talking about Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry sure, Wall isn’t a superstar. You can’t get away with paying a 2nd tier Point guard 46 million. This team is showing you that you can plug in a similar player to Otto Porter at point guard and be successful. Who is the Otto Porter guard version out there? Gary Harris? If you plugged him in alongside Beal instead of Wall at a regular max contract price, which team would be better?

I’m not saying I have the answers, but look at what the current team is doing, are you sure you aren’t overstating Walls impact? If he was some prime time playoff performer this is a different conversation. The 15 million dollar gap between Walls deal and a regular max contract is killer. Otto Porter is an elite player

I mean really, pay Wall 40 million and trade Porter for a protected late 1st??

"What evidence do we have of Wall carrying us in a playoff series?" .. this is what I'm talking about lol, you expect people to assume you're serious and not trolling?

Read on Twitter

"This team is showing you that you can plug in a similar player to Otto Porter at point guard and be successful."


So which East team are the Wizards beating in a playoff series starting Satoransky at point guard? Maybe let's not get too excited over a couple regular seasons games..

Wall averaged 27/10/4/stls/1blk last postseason and was one of the top performers in the 2017 playoffs. Otto Porter is a good player but he is NOT elite. He's never going to be the best player on the floor in a series. He averaged 10ppg vs Atlanta and was outplayed by Taurean Prince a rookie. In the NBA you ideally want to pay max money only to players with proven star talent ie Wall, Beal.. not players like Porter.


Look Otto doesn't have the worst contract in the league or anything, but with the salary constraints Wash is going to face he will be the most expendable of our high salary players. I wish we could keep the Wall/Beal/Porter/Oubre core and still add more around them, but unfortunately the salary cap is a thing, and Grunfeld has handicapped us into the situation we're in now.

I see where you’re coming from, but again, I think you are massively understating Otto’s impact and overstating Walls. Why didn’t you post Walls stats from the Boston series where the worst defender in the nba “shut him down” I guess by simply letting wall beat himself. A first round series against Atlanta matches up against Dennis Schroeder? That’s your evidence?

Trading Otto for nothing and paying Oubre would put us right back in the same spot minus an elite player. Atleast there is some evidence in my claim about the team without Wall. 6-2 with record level assists as a team, there’s something there. I’m not saying Sato>Wall at all, I’m saying moving Wall for draft picks(which can be used to draft another PG like Doncic) and saving 200 million(which can be used to sign a Wall replacement) is better than trading Otto for a protected 1st

I’m all for waiting and seeing what the core of Wall Beal Oubre Porter and Sato can do this postseason though. If we see the same Wall we’ve seen all this year and post trade deadline last year+a 2nd round exit, then what?

[NatP4]

Oubre and our 1st rounder to either Memphis, Chicago, Phoenix, Cleveland (Brooklyn), Sacramento, Atlanta, Dallas for their 1st pick - trying to get in top 7 or 8.

This, I 100% agree on. You can draft an elite core big anywhere in the top 10 this season. When it comes down to it, Porter is what potentially makes our team special, being able to play the 4. You can sign a 3&D player any offseason, which is what Oubre tops out as IMO. Ariza even hits free agency this summer.

[TGW]

I see the stupid is starting to take over this thread.

[Illmatic12]

Where does that come from though? What evidence do we have of Wall carrying us in a playoff series? How is Wall more valuable than Porter? If we were talking about Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry sure, Wall isn’t a superstar. You can’t get away with paying a 2nd tier Point guard 46 million. This team is showing you that you can plug in a similar player to Otto Porter at point guard and be successful. Who is the Otto Porter guard version out there? Gary Harris? If you plugged him in alongside Beal instead of Wall at a regular max contract price, which team would be better?

I’m not saying I have the answers, but look at what the current team is doing, are you sure you aren’t overstating Walls impact? If he was some prime time playoff performer this is a different conversation. The 15 million dollar gap between Walls deal and a regular max contract is killer. Otto Porter is an elite player

I mean really, pay Wall 40 million and trade Porter for a protected late 1st??

"What evidence do we have of Wall carrying us in a playoff series?" .. this is what I'm talking about lol, you expect people to assume you're serious and not trolling?

Read on Twitter

"This team is showing you that you can plug in a similar player to Otto Porter at point guard and be successful."


So which East team are the Wizards beating in a playoff series starting Satoransky at point guard? Maybe let's not get too excited over a couple regular seasons games..

Wall averaged 27/10/4/stls/1blk last postseason and was one of the top performers in the 2017 playoffs. Otto Porter is a good player but he is NOT elite. He's never going to be the best player on the floor in a series. He averaged 10ppg vs Atlanta and was outplayed by Taurean Prince a rookie. In the NBA you ideally want to pay max money only to players with proven star talent ie Wall, Beal.. not players like Porter.


Look Otto doesn't have the worst contract in the league or anything, but with the salary constraints Wash is going to face he will be the most expendable of our high salary players. I wish we could keep the Wall/Beal/Porter/Oubre core and still add more around them, but unfortunately the salary cap is a thing, and Grunfeld has handicapped us into the situation we're in now.

I see where you’re coming from, but again, I think you are massively understating Otto’s impact and overstating Walls. Why didn’t you post Walls stats from the Boston series where the worst defender in the nba “shut him down” I guess by simply letting wall beat himself. A first round series against Atlanta matches up against Dennis Schroeder? That’s your evidence?

Wall's stats in the Boston series? 25/10/3/2blks/2stls.

And the "worst defender in the NBA" ie Isaiah Thomas didn't defend Wall, you know who he was guarding in that series? Otto Porter. Just to clarify, you're arguing that Porter is elite while asking for evidence for why a 5x All-Star coming off an All-NBA season is an elite player. The fact that John had two of the league's best G defenders, Smart and Bradley rotating on him at all times.. is proof that he's elite

Trading Otto for nothing and paying Oubre would put us right back in the same spot minus an elite player. Atleast there is some evidence in my claim about the team without Wall. 6-2 with record level assists as a team, there’s something there. I’m not saying Sato>Wall at all, I’m saying moving Wall for draft picks(which can be used to draft another PG like Doncic) and saving 200 million(which can be used to sign a Wall replacement) is better than trading Otto for a protected 1st

I’m all for waiting and seeing what the core of Wall Beal Oubre Porter and Sato can do this postseason though. If we see the same Wall we’ve seen all this year and post trade deadline last year+a 2nd round exit, then what?

Who proposed trading Otto for nothing? IF it comes down to trading Porter to avoid repeater tax, I think WAS could get a reasonable return which would include $25+ million of cap relief, at least 1 cheap young prospect and a FRP.. which is not nothing. And not because I hate Otto, but bc his role on the team is simply more replaceable relative to his salary. If the Wizards can somehow manage to dump Mahinmi and land Oubre/Satoransky on bargain contracts, then hopefully we can keep everyone and it doesn't come to that.

Wall just had an All-NBA season and was elite in the playoffs, obviously this year he's struggling with injuries but we've seen what he can do. What if we see the same Otto we saw post trade deadline last year who looked like he needed a hip replacement? And the same Otto who scored zero points in a playoff game, yet now being paid more per year than Bradley Beal? Then what? I'd say he has a lot more to prove than John does.. out of our "big three" his position is the least safe.

[NatP4]

"What evidence do we have of Wall carrying us in a playoff series?" .. this is what I'm talking about lol, you expect people to assume you're serious and not trolling?

Read on Twitter

"This team is showing you that you can plug in a similar player to Otto Porter at point guard and be successful."


So which East team are the Wizards beating in a playoff series starting Satoransky at point guard? Maybe let's not get too excited over a couple regular seasons games..

Wall averaged 27/10/4/stls/1blk last postseason and was one of the top performers in the 2017 playoffs. Otto Porter is a good player but he is NOT elite. He's never going to be the best player on the floor in a series. He averaged 10ppg vs Atlanta and was outplayed by Taurean Prince a rookie. In the NBA you ideally want to pay max money only to players with proven star talent ie Wall, Beal.. not players like Porter.


Look Otto doesn't have the worst contract in the league or anything, but with the salary constraints Wash is going to face he will be the most expendable of our high salary players. I wish we could keep the Wall/Beal/Porter/Oubre core and still add more around them, but unfortunately the salary cap is a thing, and Grunfeld has handicapped us into the situation we're in now.

I see where you’re coming from, but again, I think you are massively understating Otto’s impact and overstating Walls. Why didn’t you post Walls stats from the Boston series where the worst defender in the nba “shut him down” I guess by simply letting wall beat himself. A first round series against Atlanta matches up against Dennis Schroeder? That’s your evidence?

Wall's stats in the Boston series? 25/10/3/2blks/2stls.

And the "worst defender in the NBA" ie Isaiah Thomas didn't defend Wall, you know who he was guarding in that series? Otto Porter. Just to clarify, you're arguing that Porter is elite while asking for evidence for why a 5x All-Star coming off an All-NBA season is an elite player. The fact that John had two of the league's best G defenders, Smart and Bradley rotating on him at all times.. is proof that he's elite

Trading Otto for nothing and paying Oubre would put us right back in the same spot minus an elite player. Atleast there is some evidence in my claim about the team without Wall. 6-2 with record level assists as a team, there’s something there. I’m not saying Sato>Wall at all, I’m saying moving Wall for draft picks(which can be used to draft another PG like Doncic) and saving 200 million(which can be used to sign a Wall replacement) is better than trading Otto for a protected 1st

I’m all for waiting and seeing what the core of Wall Beal Oubre Porter and Sato can do this postseason though. If we see the same Wall we’ve seen all this year and post trade deadline last year+a 2nd round exit, then what?

Who proposed trading Otto for nothing? IF it comes down to trading Porter to avoid repeater tax, I think WAS could get a reasonable return which would include $25+ million of cap relief, at least 1 cheap young prospect and a FRP.. which is not nothing. And not because I hate Otto, but bc his role on the team is simply more replaceable relative to his salary. If the Wizards can somehow manage to dump Mahinmi and land Oubre/Satoransky on bargain contracts, then hopefully we can keep everyone and it doesn't come to that.

Wall just had an All-NBA season and was elite in the playoffs, obviously this year he's struggling with injuries but we've seen what he can do. What if we see the same Otto we saw post trade deadline last year who looked like he needed a hip replacement? And the same Otto who scored zero points in a playoff game, yet now being paid more per year than Bradley Beal? Then what? I'd say he has a lot more to prove than John does.. out of our "big three" his position is the least safe.

Those aren’t even Walls stats against Boston lol. Did you just round everything up? 2 blocks 2 steals???? What? The guy shot 39% and averaged 4 turnovers per game. He shot sub 40% in 4/7 games and was a minus 4/7 games.

I’ll give you the Atlanta series against a team we were obviously favored against, matched up against Schroder. Other than that, he shot 36% in 2014, 38% in 2015 and 39% against Boston in 2017 (on a ridiculous 23 FGA per game) 14 missed shots and 4 turnovers per game from your point guard is pretty tough to overcome, no? Especially when he couldn’t guard anyone on the other end, we were literally trying to hide him on Jae Crowder and Avery Bradley. Yeah I know “he was fatigued from carrying the team all year”

I know right, I’m such a hater for pointing out numbers. You really gonna call Wall a playoff performer based on all that? Trade Otto for Denver’s 1st round pick protected and pay Wall 46 million as a 31 year old? I’m a hater for disagreeing with that?

I’m a huge believer in the core of this team also, I’m hoping Wall plays like his pre trade deadline 2016 self and they go to the finals this year and Ernie has a good draft over anything else, but I’m not a hater for wanting to trade Wall if he doesn’t change his game. He needs to be a good defender again and more unselfish offensively

[Illmatic12]

Those aren’t even Walls stats against Boston lol. Did you just round everything up? 2 blocks 2 steals???? What? The guy shot 39% and averaged 4 turnovers per game. He shot sub 40% in 4/7 games and was a minus 4/7 games.

I’ll give you the Atlanta series against a team we were obviously favored against, matched up against Schroder. Other than that, he shot 36% in 2014, 38% in 2015 and 39% against Boston in 2017 (on a ridiculous 23 FGA per game) 14 missed shots and 4 turnovers per game from your point guard is pretty tough to overcome, no? Especially when he couldn’t guard anyone on the other end, we were literally trying to hide him on Jae Crowder and Avery Bradley. Yeah I know “he was fatigued from carrying the team all year”

I know right, I’m such a hater for pointing out numbers. You really gonna call Wall a playoff performer based on all that? Trade Otto for Denver’s 1st round pick protected and pay Wall 46 million as a 31 year old? I’m a hater for disagreeing with that?

I’m a huge believer in the core of this team also, I’m hoping Wall plays like his pre trade deadline 2016 self and they go to the finals this year and Ernie has a good draft over anything else, but I’m not a hater for wanting to trade Wall if he doesn’t change his game. He needs to be a good defender again and more unselfish offensively

Lol, what? Against Boston, Wall averaged 25.1ppg, 10.3apg, 1.6 bpg, 1.7 spg blk.. yes, that mathematically rounds to 25/10/2/2. He also shot 39.8 fg% in that Boston series, and you call that "39%" when it's literally 0.02% away from 40%. Looks like someone doesn't know how rounding numbers works.. and yes, he shot poorly but his all-around contributions for 40mpg are the reason why we even went to 7 games against a team that had better depth.

And the Wizards would have lost that Hawks series if not for Wall. Our starting SF, PF, and C got punked every game, John had to go supernova for us to win in 6. And if you're going to point out that John played well in the series we were favored in, you should also point out that the Wizards weren't favored in any of those other series and were facing superior teams/elite defenses.

I've given you evidence of John proving himself to be the best player in a playoff series. You still have not given one reason why we should consider Otto Porter to be an elite player or a star. Anyone who believes that is either a hater, or just plain basketball-dumb. I understand having gripes and criticisms about Wall, and I understand hoping that he can get back healthy. What I don't understand are the wild hyperbolic statements being made with no basis

[Kanyewest]

Against Boston, Wall had a TS% of 49, Marcus Smart had the same TS% in that series. It took him 23 field goal attempts in 39 minutes to get to 25 points per game. His 3.4 rebounds in 39 minutes per game isn't great either. The big thing though was that Jennings was beyond horrible and only had a TS% at 22%, it was weird that Brooks would not go to Sato but also didn't maximize Wall's rest and often played Jennings and Wall together.