Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

[TGW]

Against Boston, Wall had a TS% of 49, Marcus Smart had the same TS% in that series. It took him 23 field goal attempts in 39 minutes to get to 25 points per game. His 3.4 rebounds in 39 minutes per game isn't great either. The big thing though was that Jennings was beyond horrible and only had a TS% at 22%, it was weird that Brooks would not go to Sato but also didn't maximize Wall's rest and often played Jennings and Wall together.

Yea it's because Satoransky stunk last season. Let's not act like he was even remotely useful last year...he wasn't.

[Kanyewest]

Against Boston, Wall had a TS% of 49, Marcus Smart had the same TS% in that series. It took him 23 field goal attempts in 39 minutes to get to 25 points per game. His 3.4 rebounds in 39 minutes per game isn't great either. The big thing though was that Jennings was beyond horrible and only had a TS% at 22%, it was weird that Brooks would not go to Sato but also didn't maximize Wall's rest and often played Jennings and Wall together.

Yea it's because Satoransky stunk last season. Let's not act like he was even remotely useful last year...he wasn't.

I think Brooks had to go to someone else, even Trey Burke at that point. Jennings lost his shot. Sato would have been better than Jennings because of his defense. Brooks also failed to use Oubre at all in game 7.

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[payitforward]

Against Boston, Wall had a TS% of 49, Marcus Smart had the same TS% in that series. It took him 23 field goal attempts in 39 minutes to get to 25 points per game. His 3.4 rebounds in 39 minutes per game isn't great either. The big thing though was that Jennings was beyond horrible and only had a TS% at 22%, it was weird that Brooks would not go to Sato but also didn't maximize Wall's rest and often played Jennings and Wall together.

Yea it's because Satoransky stunk last season. Let's not act like he was even remotely useful last year...he wasn't.

He wasn't as bad as Jennings, however. He wasn't nearly as bad as Jennings.

[Ruzious]

Against Boston, Wall had a TS% of 49, Marcus Smart had the same TS% in that series. It took him 23 field goal attempts in 39 minutes to get to 25 points per game. His 3.4 rebounds in 39 minutes per game isn't great either. The big thing though was that Jennings was beyond horrible and only had a TS% at 22%, it was weird that Brooks would not go to Sato but also didn't maximize Wall's rest and often played Jennings and Wall together.

Yea it's because Satoransky stunk last season. Let's not act like he was even remotely useful last year...he wasn't.

He wasn't as bad as Jennings, however. He wasn't nearly as bad as Jennings.

Choosing between them was a no win situation especially when you consider Sato's big advantage was shooting, and Sato stunk at shooting. Compare their assist and assist/to ratios.

[Kanyewest]

Yea it's because Satoransky stunk last season. Let's not act like he was even remotely useful last year...he wasn't.

He wasn't as bad as Jennings, however. He wasn't nearly as bad as Jennings.

Choosing between them was a no win situation especially when you consider Sato's big advantage was shooting, and Sato stunk at shooting. Compare their assist and assist/to ratios.

Even at that point, Sato would have been a better defender and actually may have been able to make a layup/dunk. Jennings was just beyond awful in that series. He averaged 1 point, 1 assist, and 1 rebound, and .6 turnover in 12 minutes per game.

[FAH1223]

Against Boston, Wall had a TS% of 49, Marcus Smart had the same TS% in that series. It took him 23 field goal attempts in 39 minutes to get to 25 points per game. His 3.4 rebounds in 39 minutes per game isn't great either. The big thing though was that Jennings was beyond horrible and only had a TS% at 22%, it was weird that Brooks would not go to Sato but also didn't maximize Wall's rest and often played Jennings and Wall together.

Yea it's because Satoransky stunk last season. Let's not act like he was even remotely useful last year...he wasn't.

I'd say he would have played defense way better and been able to make a layup.

[Dark Faze]

Wall is going to be a better player because of Sato. You all will see.

[Ruzious]

He wasn't as bad as Jennings, however. He wasn't nearly as bad as Jennings.

Choosing between them was a no win situation especially when you consider Sato's big advantage was shooting, and Sato stunk at shooting. Compare their assist and assist/to ratios.

Even at that point, Sato would have been a better defender and actually may have been able to make a layup/dunk. Jennings was just beyond awful in that series. He averaged 1 point, 1 assist, and 1 rebound, and .6 turnover in 12 minutes per game.

Even defensively, Sato had not proven himself and was considered not quick enough to cover the quicker PG's. Offensively, they didn't think he could bring the ball up against defensive presure - we even saw that earlier this season when the Wiz bigs would set picks in the backcourt to help him. And he often wouldn't even take wide open jump shots. It was a no-win situation for any NBA coach last season. Sato's improvement this season has been nothing short of dramatic. He stunk last season. Jennings did, too, but they played him because he had excellent assist numbers and a good assist/to ratio. His assist rate was better than twice that of Sato's.

[payitforward]

The Illmatic / Nat debate was sorta interesting -- & I'm glad that the tone of it settled down.

Everybody was right about something. There is no question that Holiday has had a better year than Wall. & there's also no question that Wall has been a better player than Holiday over their careers.

OTOH, Wall is overrated by a lot of people on this board. There's a tendency to rate him based on his best & to ignore his worst. That's what leads to people thinking, for example, that he's better than Kyle Lowry when in fact he's not nearly as good as Kyle Lowry.

The NBA offers two distinct things: entertainment & competition. Sometimes the guys who offer the most entertainment aren't necessarily having the biggest effect on the results of competition.

John Wall had a terrific season last year, his best season. But even last year, there were at least 6 PGs who were quite a bit better than he: Chris Paul, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Lowry, Mike Conley & Steph Curry. & IT, Teague & Rubio were at least as good as Wall last year.

As to Porter, like Wall (& like Beal too for that matter) he's not having as good a season this year as last. That's why we're not as good a team as last year -- even though our bench is a good deal better than last year's.

But, Porter & Beal are only off a little this year. Wall has been off a lot. No doubt we can attribute it to injuries.

Still, even at his best, Porter doesn't contribute to the "entertainment" half of what the NBA offers in the way Wall does. But he contributes a lot to the "competition" half. Even last year, in Wall's best season, John contributed more to winning games (per minutes on the floor) than John.

Note that in a statement like the one I just made, opinions don't enter in at all, not in any way: that's what the numbers say; & numbers win games. Numbers & nothing else.

All the same it's a lot more likely that we will trade Porter than Wall. Or Porter than Beal. Even if we preferred to trade Wall, his mega-contract will make it hard.

Between Otto & Brad, however, it would make much more sense to trade Beal. On the numbers Porter is the better player. They're both really good shooters. Porter is a little better percentage-wise but doesn't shoot as much -- but overall everything else he does is much more impactful than Beal. Yet, I think we'd get more back for Beal.

So, best would be to trade Wall. 2d best would be to trade Beal. Worst would be to trade Porter -- which, no surprise, is almost certainly what Ernie will do.

[Kanyewest]

Choosing between them was a no win situation especially when you consider Sato's big advantage was shooting, and Sato stunk at shooting. Compare their assist and assist/to ratios.

Even at that point, Sato would have been a better defender and actually may have been able to make a layup/dunk. Jennings was just beyond awful in that series. He averaged 1 point, 1 assist, and 1 rebound, and .6 turnover in 12 minutes per game.

Even defensively, Sato had not proven himself and was considered not quick enough to cover the quicker PG's. Offensively, they didn't think he could bring the ball up against defensive presure - we even saw that earlier this season when the Wiz bigs would set picks in the backcourt to help him. And he often wouldn't even take wide open jump shots. It was a no-win situation for any NBA coach last season. Sato's improvement this season has been nothing short of dramatic. He stunk last season.

It wasn't so much that Sato was that good defensively, Jennings was just that bad. Even in limited minutes when the Wizards finally decided to bench Burke, the Wizards were significantly better defensively. Jennings was about as bad as Trey Burke on the defensive end.

[Ruzious]

The Illmatic / Nat debate was sorta interesting -- & I'm glad that the tone of it settled down.

Everybody was right about something. There is no question that Holiday has had a better year than Wall. & there's also no question that Wall has been a better player than Holiday over their careers.

OTOH, Wall is overrated by a lot of people on this board. There's a tendency to rate him based on his best & to ignore his worst. That's what leads to people thinking, for example, that he's better than Kyle Lowry when in fact he's not nearly as good as Kyle Lowry.

The NBA offers two distinct things: entertainment & competition. Sometimes the guys who offer the most entertainment aren't necessarily having the biggest effect on the results of competition.

John Wall had a terrific season last year, his best season. But even last year, there were at least 6 PGs who were quite a bit better than he: Chris Paul, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Lowry, Mike Conley & Steph Curry. & IT, Teague & Rubio were at least as good as Wall last year.

I couldn't get past the Ricky Rubio reference. And I've always thought Teague was underrated, but he wasn't at Wall's level last season or ever - better than Rubio certainly but not better than Wall. Hopefully you're getting kickbacks for pumping the Rubio brand.

[ClutchDJ]

The Illmatic / Nat debate was sorta interesting -- & I'm glad that the tone of it settled down.

Everybody was right about something. There is no question that Holiday has had a better year than Wall. & there's also no question that Wall has been a better player than Holiday over their careers.

OTOH, Wall is overrated by a lot of people on this board. There's a tendency to rate him based on his best & to ignore his worst. That's what leads to people thinking, for example, that he's better than Kyle Lowry when in fact he's not nearly as good as Kyle Lowry.

The NBA offers two distinct things: entertainment & competition. Sometimes the guys who offer the most entertainment aren't necessarily having the biggest effect on the results of competition.

John Wall had a terrific season last year, his best season. But even last year, there were at least 6 PGs who were quite a bit better than he: Chris Paul, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Lowry, Mike Conley & Steph Curry. & IT, Teague & Rubio were at least as good as Wall last year.

I couldn't get past the Ricky Rubio reference. And I've always thought Teague was underrated, but he wasn't at Wall's level last season or ever - better than Rubio certainly but not better than Wall. Hopefully you're getting kickbacks for pumping the Rubio brand.

Yea, I can agree with CP3, Harden, & Wardell being better than John last season. IT, Conley, & Lowry a little less so.

Rubio & Teague though? Lol, I’m sorry, but advanced stats my a**.

[barelyawake]

What’s great about the NBA is that they take all the regular season stats, add them up, and determine who should win the NBA title. That’s why regular season, advanced statistics matter so much.

[TGW]

What’s great about the NBA is that they take all the regular season stats, add them up, and determine who should win the NBA title. That’s why regular season, advanced statistics matter so much.

Wait, so RPM per 40 mins adjusted for pace doesn't determine who the MVP is?

[Shanghai Kid]

The Illmatic / Nat debate was sorta interesting -- & I'm glad that the tone of it settled down.

Everybody was right about something. There is no question that Holiday has had a better year than Wall. & there's also no question that Wall has been a better player than Holiday over their careers.

OTOH, Wall is overrated by a lot of people on this board. There's a tendency to rate him based on his best & to ignore his worst. That's what leads to people thinking, for example, that he's better than Kyle Lowry when in fact he's not nearly as good as Kyle Lowry.

The NBA offers two distinct things: entertainment & competition. Sometimes the guys who offer the most entertainment aren't necessarily having the biggest effect on the results of competition.

John Wall had a terrific season last year, his best season. But even last year, there were at least 6 PGs who were quite a bit better than he: Chris Paul, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Lowry, Mike Conley & Steph Curry. & IT, Teague & Rubio were at least as good as Wall last year.

As to Porter, like Wall (& like Beal too for that matter) he's not having as good a season this year as last. That's why we're not as good a team as last year -- even though our bench is a good deal better than last year's.

But, Porter & Beal are only off a little this year. Wall has been off a lot. No doubt we can attribute it to injuries.

Still, even at his best, Porter doesn't contribute to the "entertainment" half of what the NBA offers in the way Wall does. But he contributes a lot to the "competition" half. Even last year, in Wall's best season, John contributed more to winning games (per minutes on the floor) than John.

Note that in a statement like the one I just made, opinions don't enter in at all, not in any way: that's what the numbers say; & numbers win games. Numbers & nothing else.

All the same it's a lot more likely that we will trade Porter than Wall. Or Porter than Beal. Even if we preferred to trade Wall, his mega-contract will make it hard.

Between Otto & Brad, however, it would make much more sense to trade Beal. On the numbers Porter is the better player. They're both really good shooters. Porter is a little better percentage-wise but doesn't shoot as much -- but overall everything else he does is much more impactful than Beal. Yet, I think we'd get more back for Beal.

So, best would be to trade Wall. 2d best would be to trade Beal. Worst would be to trade Porter -- which, no surprise, is almost certainly what Ernie will do.

...You kind of jumped the shark and lost credibility with "Teague and Rubio were at least just as good."

Wall averaged 23ppg/11apg/2 spg essentially on a 50 win team that for a few months had the 2nd best record in the league behind Golden State and a top 5 offense. Wall won player of the month in January and made All-NBA 3rd team which means a lot of people considered him the 5th or 6th best guard in the league period.

23.2 PER, 4.1 BPM, 4.3 VORP, 3.8 OBPM, 0.2 BPM. He could have been better defensively and shot more efficiently, but you are exaggerating his play in negative fashion.

[80sballboy]

Anytime you mention a player's worth, that he's better than the other guy because of advanced stats and metrics, you better also include the postseason. Thus Wall>Lowry. Also add that Lowry is playing with Ibaka and Valanciunas, better frontcourt talent.

[Kanyewest]

Anytime you mention a player's worth, that he's better than the other guy because of advanced stats and metrics, you better also include the postseason. Thus Wall>Lowry. Also add that Lowry is playing with Ibaka and Valanciunas, better frontcourt talent.

If you are including the postseason, then would Irving be better than Wall?

[barelyawake]

PS I’m perfectly fine with trading Wall and Beal (and starting a team around Oubre, Porter and Sato). But, we better be getting top three picks in return. Or if we are just trading Beal, then a top big and some cap relief.

But, as one guy put it, anyone thinking we are trading Wall “needs to get the hell out of town. Or better yet, they need to get the hell out of town, settle down, then get the hell out of that town, and then be shot into space and get the hell out of the known universe (paraphrasing).”

So, let’s put a call into Bosh’s guy. Couldn’t hurt even just as a locker room guy, at this point.

[80sballboy]

Anytime you mention a player's worth, that he's better than the other guy because of advanced stats and metrics, you better also include the postseason. Thus Wall>Lowry. Also add that Lowry is playing with Ibaka and Valanciunas, better frontcourt talent.

If you are including the postseason, then would Irving be better than Wall?

Never said Wall was better than Irving. Different types of players but sure, Irving is mega-clutch.

[Kanyewest]

Anytime you mention a player's worth, that he's better than the other guy because of advanced stats and metrics, you better also include the postseason. Thus Wall>Lowry. Also add that Lowry is playing with Ibaka and Valanciunas, better frontcourt talent.

If you are including the postseason, then would Irving be better than Wall?

Never said Wall was better than Irving. Different types of players but sure, Irving is mega-clutch.

Just wondering since nobody has mentioned him as being better than Wall from last season. Certainly a more viable guy that some of the guys that have been listed.