Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

[nate33]

I wonder how EG and management really see Oubre. Do they see him as a piece they want to keep or a tradeable asset waiting on the right deal.

I guess I'm thinking of how much are they willing to invest in the combo of Porter and Oubre? I go back on forth on Oubre myself, there is a lot I love about him but he's kind of a gunner.

I think most here probably would now value keeping Sato long term over Oubre. Sato is the perfect combo guard to go with Wall and Beal.

I love Sato and he is certainly outplaying Oubre at the moment, but I'd definitely take Oubre over Sato for the long term. The difference is that Oubre has the size and frame to guard 1-4, and, at age 21, Oubre still has a lot of technical improvement ahead of him. Oubre is a pretty sure bet to peak as a Trevor Ariza type: an average starter (top 15 SF in the league); and he has an outside shot of being something better, maybe even a guy who sneaks into an All Star game if there are injuries.

Sato doesn't have the shot creation abilities to be an above-average starting guard. He's a 4th option/5th option type of role player, and in today's game it's hard to get away with playing a low-usage role player at starting guard. It could work on some teams that have ball dominant wings I suppose, but even then, he's still going to be considered a below-average starter.

[payitforward]

I'm glad I stopped at 3. You're still one of my favorite posters most of the time.

But but but... the 4th sentence was the key one, Ruz!!

You're one of my favorite posters too.

I'm not trying to drive anyone crazy; sorry if I'm doing it without trying!!

[payitforward]

Anytime you mention a player's worth, that he's better than the other guy because of advanced stats and metrics, you better also include the postseason. Thus Wall>Lowry. Also add that Lowry is playing with Ibaka and Valanciunas, better frontcourt talent.

If you are including the postseason, then would Irving be better than Wall?

Never said Wall was better than Irving. Different types of players but sure, Irving is mega-clutch.

Wall was better than Irving last season, a lot better. & I'd say overall on their careers not including this season, Wall has been the better player by a little bit.

This season, however, Irving has taken his scoring efficiency up a notch. So far at least, it's his best year.

[payitforward]

I wonder how EG and management really see Oubre. Do they see him as a piece they want to keep or a tradeable asset waiting on the right deal.

I guess I'm thinking of how much are they willing to invest in the combo of Porter and Oubre? I go back on forth on Oubre myself, there is a lot I love about him but he's kind of a gunner.

I think most here probably would now value keeping Sato long term over Oubre. Sato is the perfect combo guard to go with Wall and Beal.

I love Sato and he is certainly outplaying Oubre at the moment, but I'd definitely take Oubre over Sato for the long term. The difference is that Oubre has the size and frame to guard 1-4, and, at age 21, Oubre still has a lot of technical improvement ahead of him. Oubre is a pretty sure bet to peak as a Trevor Ariza type: an average starter (top 15 SF in the league); and he has an outside shot of being something better, maybe even a guy who sneaks into an All Star game if there are injuries.

Sato doesn't have the shot creation abilities to be an above-average starting guard. He's a 4th option/5th option type of role player, and in today's game it's hard to get away with playing a low-usage role player at starting guard. It could work on some teams that have ball dominant wings I suppose, but even then, he's still going to be considered a below-average starter.

I'm with Nate on this (tho Oubre turned 22 a couple of months ago!).

Oubre has declined from his level earlier this season. He's playing more minutes per game this season than last. Maybe that's getting to him. Lets hope a week off helps.

But I can't see why to call him a gunner -- he takes just over 14 shots per 40 minutes. Not a lot.

Someone said he's taking bad shots. I haven't seen that. He misses a lot of perfectly good shots lately.

As far as keeping Oubre and/or Sato -- the one advantage Satoransky has is that he won't command the same money I don't think.

[Kanyewest]

If you are including the postseason, then would Irving be better than Wall?

Never said Wall was better than Irving. Different types of players but sure, Irving is mega-clutch.

Wall was better than Irving last season, a lot better. & I'd say overall on their careers not including this season, Wall has been the better player by a little bit.

This season, however, Irving has taken his scoring efficiency up a notch. So far at least, it's his best year.

I would say Irving had a better postseason than Wall though. Irving started off slow with only 49 TS% in the first two rounds. But Irving had a 64 TS% against the Celtics/Warriors. Wall had a 49 TS% against the Celtics while Irving's TS% was at 76%. Irving appeared to be coasting for most of the season and even the first couple rounds of the playoffs. And also Irving had put up much better numbers in the previous postseason when the Cavs won the title.

I was just throwing Irving out there since the original argument was that Lowry was not as good as Wall because of his postseason numbers were worse than Wall's . Lowry had a TS% 58, Lowry wasn't as strong as his regular season numbers. Although I wonder how much credit should go to the Bucks' defense of Brogdon and Delly.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I wonder how EG and management really see Oubre. Do they see him as a piece they want to keep or a tradeable asset waiting on the right deal.

I guess I'm thinking of how much are they willing to invest in the combo of Porter and Oubre? I go back on forth on Oubre myself, there is a lot I love about him but he's kind of a gunner.

I think most here probably would now value keeping Sato long term over Oubre. Sato is the perfect combo guard to go with Wall and Beal.

I love Sato and he is certainly outplaying Oubre at the moment, but I'd definitely take Oubre over Sato for the long term. The difference is that Oubre has the size and frame to guard 1-4, and, at age 21, Oubre still has a lot of technical improvement ahead of him. Oubre is a pretty sure bet to peak as a Trevor Ariza type: an average starter (top 15 SF in the league); and he has an outside shot of being something better, maybe even a guy who sneaks into an All Star game if there are injuries.

Sato doesn't have the shot creation abilities to be an above-average starting guard. He's a 4th option/5th option type of role player, and in today's game it's hard to get away with playing a low-usage role player at starting guard. It could work on some teams that have ball dominant wings I suppose, but even then, he's still going to be considered a below-average starter.

How much will it cost to keep Oubre? How much will Satoransky receive next contract?

Tomas Satoransky playing allows for Otto Porter's higher usage. Kelly Oubre has slumped without Wall. Meanwhile, Otto Porter has surged. Kelly Oubre can improve a great deal. We have not seen the best of Satoransky yet, either.

The only way I would trade Kelly Oubre is if another team took back a lot of salary and gave up a decent player plus second round pick. I would only do it because I think Kelly Oubre is going to cost quite a bit to keep.

It would be interesting for Brooks to try a Satoransky / Oubre backcourt.

[Dat2U]

Never said Wall was better than Irving. Different types of players but sure, Irving is mega-clutch.

Wall was better than Irving last season, a lot better. & I'd say overall on their careers not including this season, Wall has been the better player by a little bit.

This season, however, Irving has taken his scoring efficiency up a notch. So far at least, it's his best year.

I would say Irving had a better postseason than Wall though. Irving started off slow with only 49 TS% in the first two rounds. But Irving had a 64 TS% against the Celtics/Warriors. Wall had a 49 TS% against the Celtics while Irving's TS% was at 76%. Irving appeared to be coasting for most of the season and even the first couple rounds of the playoffs. And also Irving had put up much better numbers in the previous postseason when the Cavs won the title.

I was just throwing Irving out there since the original argument was that Lowry was not as good as Wall because of his postseason numbers were worse than Wall's . Lowry had a TS% 58, Lowry wasn't as strong as his regular season numbers. Although I wonder how much credit should go to the Bucks' defense of Brogdon and Delly.

What was Wall's TS% in the Boston series before he ran out of gas and finished 0-11? People want to make seem like Wall was trash the whole series when in reality one bad half in a 7 game series made the difference b/w a very good series and just a okay one.

[Kanyewest]

Wall was better than Irving last season, a lot better. & I'd say overall on their careers not including this season, Wall has been the better player by a little bit.

This season, however, Irving has taken his scoring efficiency up a notch. So far at least, it's his best year.

I would say Irving had a better postseason than Wall though. Irving started off slow with only 49 TS% in the first two rounds. But Irving had a 64 TS% against the Celtics/Warriors. Wall had a 49 TS% against the Celtics while Irving's TS% was at 76%. Irving appeared to be coasting for most of the season and even the first couple rounds of the playoffs. And also Irving had put up much better numbers in the previous postseason when the Cavs won the title.

I was just throwing Irving out there since the original argument was that Lowry was not as good as Wall because of his postseason numbers were worse than Wall's . Lowry had a TS% 58, Lowry wasn't as strong as his regular season numbers. Although I wonder how much credit should go to the Bucks' defense of Brogdon and Delly.

What was Wall's TS% in the Boston series before he ran out of gas and finished 0-11? People want to make seem like Wall was trash the whole series when in reality one bad half in a 7 game series made the difference b/w a very good series and just a okay one.

His TS% in that game before game 7 was at 50.6%. I'm not sure what his TS% was in the final game/series before he missed his final 11 shots.

Just because I think Irving and other have been better than John Wall does not mean he is trash. I do not think Wall should get a consolation prize for being a top 5 point guard by selectively taking out his worst performance. Then, you would have to take out the worst performance from every point guard. This is why we look at averages. You are right that John Wall is not that far from being considered one of the top 5 point guards in the league, but ignoring his poorest performance would be the same thing as ignoring his best performance and saying without his 40 point game in game 2, he is no better than Kemba Walker.

[FAH1223]

Kawhi Leonard has a rift with the Spurs.

Otto and Oubre for Kawhi?

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[Sluggerface]

Kawhi Leonard has a rift with the Spurs.

Otto and Oubre for Kawhi?

Read on Twitter

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No way in hell. Leonard is an MVP caliber player healthy.

[FAH1223]

Kawhi Leonard has a rift with the Spurs.

Otto and Oubre for Kawhi?

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

No way in hell. Leonard is an MVP caliber player healthy.

Read on Twitter

[Sluggerface]

Read on Twitter

I'm not saying he doesn't get traded, I'm saying Washington doesn't have the assets for him.

[nate33]

Wall and a 1st for Kawhi.

Our new team wouldn't have positions, just a bunch of wings who can all dribble, pass, shoot and defend:

Sato, Beal, Oubre, Kawhi, Porter, Morris.

Just put any 5 of them on the floor and see what happens.

[penbeast0]

Wall and a 1st for Kawhi.

Our new team wouldn't have positions, just a bunch of wings who can all dribble, pass, shoot and defend:

Sato, Beal, Oubre, Kawhi, Porter, Morris.

Just put any 5 of them on the floor and see what happens.

Morris can dribble, shoot, and pass in an above average manner? I think Mahinmi/Gortat would be out there with those guys and that both Ernie and Brooks would be looking for another PG. I also doubt San Antonio comes close to biting on this even if Wall didn't have a supermax contract.

[nate33]

Wall and a 1st for Kawhi.

Our new team wouldn't have positions, just a bunch of wings who can all dribble, pass, shoot and defend:

Sato, Beal, Oubre, Kawhi, Porter, Morris.

Just put any 5 of them on the floor and see what happens.

Morris can dribble, shoot, and pass in an above average manner? I think Mahinmi/Gortat would be out there with those guys and that both Ernie and Brooks would be looking for another PG. I also doubt San Antonio comes close to biting on this even if Wall didn't have a supermax contract.

Yeah, I know it's a pipe dream.

And I never said "in an above average manner". Although, Morris can pass and shoot in an above average manner for his position, particularly if his position is center. Morris' weaknesses are rebounding and shot blocking. His short wingspan is a real liability. I wish we could attach Draymond Green's arms to Morris' frame.

[Dark Faze]

His lateral speed is really really bad

[nate33]

His lateral speed is really really bad

I don't think so. I think he does fine when he switches out onto other guards.

[Ruzious]

Wall and a 1st for Kawhi.

Our new team wouldn't have positions, just a bunch of wings who can all dribble, pass, shoot and defend:

Sato, Beal, Oubre, Kawhi, Porter, Morris.

Just put any 5 of them on the floor and see what happens.

I love it. When you have a special all-around player like Kawhi and versatile talented players around him, it allows you to do all kinds of things. That would be so much fun to watch.

[Dark Faze]

we'd all make that trade

[dangermouse]

What are we 9-2?


I'm firmly in the trade Wall camp now I have the biggest Sato boner in town. The guy is amazing.