RealGM

Continued from here

Have been playing with the trade machine a little.

Thought of a trade centered around Porter and Mahinmi to Sacramento for some their overpriced vets as a way to clear our cap/tax and somehow ended with the trade below. In theory, Trading Porter and Mahinmi for depth on shorter contracts might be a way to fix our cap without unloading multiple firsts.

The original trade just with Sacremento
Washington Out:
Porter
Mahinmi

Sacramento Out:
Hill
Koufus
Carter or Temple (Sac's choice)

Sheds 5 mil this year and takes away any cap space beyond 2019. Porter would fit very well with the core Sacramento is building. Not sure if the value as it is is fine, or if either team needs to add more. If Sac needs to add more, flipping Sheldon Mac for Malachi Richardson and/or McCullough for Labissiere would be cap neutral deals.

A larger trade to the one posted above that is more complicated but creates a more rounded team

Washington Out:
Gortat, Mahinmi, Porter, Meeks, 1st rounder (18 or 19)
Washington In:
Joe Johnson, Favors, Koufus, Hill

We would sacrifice a first, but immediately upgrade at center with Favors. Porter is used to get off of Mahinmi and have a solid bench now with Hill, Johnson and Koufus. We get off of one first rounder, but I'd be confident in re-signing Favors. Also, we would be looking good going forward with avoiding the lux-tax this year and years to come.

Sacramento Out:
Hill, Koufus, Carter
Sacramento In:
Porter, Mahinmi

Sacramento gets Porter for their core while offloading some of their vets. As stated above, if Sacramento needs to add more, flipping Sheldon Mac for Malachi Richardson and/or McCullough for Labissiere would be cap neutral deals.

Utah Out:
Favors, Johnson
Utah In:
Gortat, Mirotic

The idea here was a trade centered around Gortat and a first for Favors (I would still look to do that regardless...would be a nice package for Utah going forward). From Washington's perspective, I would rather have Johnson than Carter (more to give off the bench and can play small ball 4). There have been rumors of Utah looking to trade a first for Mirotic, so this would allow them to do that. They could still use Gortat's big expiring next year to add a piece later.

Chicago Out:
Mirotic
Chicago In:
Carter, Meeks, Washington 1st

Carter would be waived/bought out and Chicago gets a first for Mirotic.

Why would ne1 take overpayed trash Porter.

nate33 wrote:So, with a hat tip to NatP4, this is the deal to solve all of our problems:

Washington trades: Mahinmi, Morris, Meeks 2019 1st, $3M cash
Dallas trades: Matthews, Noel

We save $5.9M instantly, which gets us out of the luxtax. We dump Mahinmi's final year. We keep our 2018 pick. We take a flyer on Noel who Dallas doesn't want anymore. If he pans out, we have the luxtax breathing room to resign him since Morris is gone. Meanwhile, we open up the roster to go small by adding an extra wing (Matthews) who is a legit starting-caliber player. Porter moves to PF almost full time (after resting until the All Star break), with Scott getting the remainder of the minutes. It might even free up a few minutes for McCullough to audition at backup PF.

Dallas does it to get the 2019 pick. I don't think they'd mind the Noel for Morris part because they've already written off Noel and Morris gives them depth with a salary small enough to not crimp their free agency plans. Heck, Carlisle will probably find a way to turn Morris into a good player.

The only part that might be tough for them to swallow is the extra year of Meeks' contract. I included cash to offset some of that pain but that might be enough. I wanted to include Meeks to get out of the luxtax. I suppose the deal also works with Frazier + McCullough (expiring contracts) in place of Meeks but I don't think Dallas can absorb a 4 for 2 swap. I'd happily replace Meeks with Smith as well since Dallas is overloaded with guards, but that's an even bigger salary.

Well done -- both nate & nat. But...

...can we make it $6m instead of $3m -- & they include their 2018 (preferably) or 2019 R2 pick?

Make it $7m if it's the 2018 R2 pick. Plus an extra $1m in a consulting contract to Rick Carlisle to make our draft picks this June!

payitforward wrote:

nate33 wrote:So, with a hat tip to NatP4, this is the deal to solve all of our problems:

Washington trades: Mahinmi, Morris, Meeks 2019 1st, $3M cash
Dallas trades: Matthews, Noel

We save $5.9M instantly, which gets us out of the luxtax. We dump Mahinmi's final year. We keep our 2018 pick. We take a flyer on Noel who Dallas doesn't want anymore. If he pans out, we have the luxtax breathing room to resign him since Morris is gone. Meanwhile, we open up the roster to go small by adding an extra wing (Matthews) who is a legit starting-caliber player. Porter moves to PF almost full time (after resting until the All Star break), with Scott getting the remainder of the minutes. It might even free up a few minutes for McCullough to audition at backup PF.

Dallas does it to get the 2019 pick. I don't think they'd mind the Noel for Morris part because they've already written off Noel and Morris gives them depth with a salary small enough to not crimp their free agency plans. Heck, Carlisle will probably find a way to turn Morris into a good player.

The only part that might be tough for them to swallow is the extra year of Meeks' contract. I included cash to offset some of that pain but that might be enough. I wanted to include Meeks to get out of the luxtax. I suppose the deal also works with Frazier + McCullough (expiring contracts) in place of Meeks but I don't think Dallas can absorb a 4 for 2 swap. I'd happily replace Meeks with Smith as well since Dallas is overloaded with guards, but that's an even bigger salary.

Well done -- both nate & nat. But...

...can we make it $6m instead of $3m -- & they include their 2018 (preferably) or 2019 R2 pick?

Make it $7m if it's the 2018 R2 pick. Plus an extra $1m in a consulting contract to Rick Carlisle to make our draft picks this June!

Your post made me go look up the rules. They've changed under the new CBA. It used to be you couldn't include more than $3M cash. They've upped the figure to $5.1M. However, they've also tightened the rules so that there's no way to creatively split the trade up into two separate deals, each with their own cash outlay. So, the bottom line is the maximum cash we could include is $5.1M.

And yes, I'd definitely up it to $5.1M to make the deal work.

As an aside, that $5.1M limit might make it much easier to shed a contract at the deadline for luxtax purposes. For example, we could easily just give, say, $1.2M cash to Brooklyn for them to absorb Frazier (a $2M contract). Brooklyn would then take over the remaining pro-rated portion of Frazier's salary (about $800,000) and Brooklyn's owner would net $400,000 cash in the transaction. Ted would lose the $400,000 cash but our cap figure would drop by $2M, which would save $3M in luxtax penalties. It's a win-win.

rl25g wrote:Have been playing with the trade machine a little.

Thought of a trade centered around Porter and Mahinmi to Sacramento for some their overpriced vets as a way to clear our cap/tax and somehow ended with the trade below. In theory, Trading Porter and Mahinmi for depth on shorter contracts might be a way to fix our cap without unloading multiple firsts.

The original trade just with Sacremento
Washington Out:
Porter
Mahinmi

Sacramento Out:
Hill
Koufus
Carter or Temple (Sac's choice)

Sheds 5 mil this year and takes away any cap space beyond 2019. Porter would fit very well with the core Sacramento is building. Not sure if the value as it is is fine, or if either team needs to add more. If Sac needs to add more, flipping Sheldon Mac for Malachi Richardson and/or McCullough for Labissiere would be cap neutral deals.

I find it hard to believe that Ted would sign off on extending Porter on a max contract only to dump him a year later in exchange for a bunch of filler.

deneem -- Kanter, whatever one thinks of him, isn't a long-term building block for this team b/c of his salary.

We simply don't have these kinds of options -- where we bring on a high-priced player at any position at all w/ the intention to keep him.

It's just not possible for us to pay that kind of guy. The only forward for this team is via the draft. No other way to add quality talent.

nate33 wrote:

payitforward wrote:

nate33 wrote:So, with a hat tip to NatP4, this is the deal to solve all of our problems:

Washington trades: Mahinmi, Morris, Meeks 2019 1st, $3M cash
Dallas trades: Matthews, Noel

We save $5.9M instantly, which gets us out of the luxtax. We dump Mahinmi's final year. We keep our 2018 pick. We take a flyer on Noel who Dallas doesn't want anymore. If he pans out, we have the luxtax breathing room to resign him since Morris is gone. Meanwhile, we open up the roster to go small by adding an extra wing (Matthews) who is a legit starting-caliber player. Porter moves to PF almost full time (after resting until the All Star break), with Scott getting the remainder of the minutes. It might even free up a few minutes for McCullough to audition at backup PF.

Dallas does it to get the 2019 pick. I don't think they'd mind the Noel for Morris part because they've already written off Noel and Morris gives them depth with a salary small enough to not crimp their free agency plans. Heck, Carlisle will probably find a way to turn Morris into a good player.

The only part that might be tough for them to swallow is the extra year of Meeks' contract. I included cash to offset some of that pain but that might be enough. I wanted to include Meeks to get out of the luxtax. I suppose the deal also works with Frazier + McCullough (expiring contracts) in place of Meeks but I don't think Dallas can absorb a 4 for 2 swap. I'd happily replace Meeks with Smith as well since Dallas is overloaded with guards, but that's an even bigger salary.

Well done -- both nate & nat. But...

...can we make it $6m instead of $3m -- & they include their 2018 (preferably) or 2019 R2 pick?

Make it $7m if it's the 2018 R2 pick. Plus an extra $1m in a consulting contract to Rick Carlisle to make our draft picks this June!

Your post made me go look up the rules. They've changed under the new CBA. It used to be you couldn't include more than $3M cash. They've upped the figure to $5.1M. However, they've also tightened the rules so that there's no way to creatively split the trade up into two separate deals, each with their own cash outlay. So, the bottom line is the maximum cash we could include is $5.1M.

And yes, I'd definitely up it to $5.1M to make the deal work.

As an aside, that $5.1M limit might make it much easier to shed a contract at the deadline for luxtax purposes. For example, we could easily just give, say, $1.2M cash to Brooklyn for them to absorb Frazier (a $2M contract). Brooklyn would then take over the remaining pro-rated portion of Frazier's salary (about $800,000) and Brooklyn's owner would net $400,000 cash in the transaction. Ted would lose the $400,000 cash but our cap figure would drop by $2M, which would save $3M in luxtax penalties. It's a win-win.

Hmmm. Could the "extra" $3-4m I suggested be a separate transaction to buy their R2 pick for which it seems to be about the going price? Hence it's not a faked up part of the other deal.

This is going to sound crazy but to me, the Cousins injury is the best thing that could have happened. Everything before was a pipe dream. We had 0 percent chance to get him. Now I actually think we can and I would give up anything besides our backcourt and Oubre

dlts20 wrote:This is going to sound crazy but to me, the Cousins injury is the best thing that could have happened. Everything before was a pipe dream. We had 0 percent chance to get him. Now I actually think we can and I would give up anything besides our backcourt and Oubre

Huh? He's a FA this summer. So sure, you are going to trade for an injured player who is going to get $170M for 5 years next summer for some team. Now would the Pels, if they want to make the playoffs, take Gortat maybe in some deal and we'd try and get another big somewhere else?

payitforward wrote:Hmmm. Could the "extra" $3-4m I suggested be a separate transaction to buy their R2 pick for which it seems to be about the going price? Hence it's not a faked up part of the other deal.

No team can give away more than $5.1 cash (in total, in all trade transactions) in a year. No team can receive more than $5.1M cash (in total, in all trade transactions) in a year.

80sballboy wrote:

dlts20 wrote:This is going to sound crazy but to me, the Cousins injury is the best thing that could have happened. Everything before was a pipe dream. We had 0 percent chance to get him. Now I actually think we can and I would give up anything besides our backcourt and Oubre

Huh? He's a FA this summer. So sure, you are going to trade for an injured player who is going to get $170M for 5 years next summer for some team. Now would the Pels, if they want to make the playoffs, take Gortat maybe in some deal and we'd try and get another big somewhere else?

Hell yes. The problem is that everyone wants to wait around for the perfect deal but it's about winning championships and 99 percent of the time, a team like the Wiz has no chance of winning a title unless they draft a transcendent talent which you can't do as a playoff team or you just have to push all of your chips in and go for a huge high risk, high reward type of play. It is our only chance. You can make a thousand trade threads but none of them bring us back a super star. Our only chance probably is to go all in on an injured FA who demands big money. I'm all for it.

To me it comes down to injury. I could care less about the money or the FA. Boogie is loyal, he loves Wall, this is a place that everyone wants to live, this is the EC with an older LeBron, and he has never been to the playoffs. I have no doubt that he would resign with us.

The injury is definitely scary and he may be done but a team like the Wizards has to take that chance. Others don't but we do. Also I don't think Cousins game is predicated on explosiveness as much as others are so I have confidence in his ability to bounce back. Even 80 percent of him is worth it IMO

nate33 wrote:...to shed a contract at the deadline for luxtax purposes. For example, we could easily just give, say, $1.2M cash to Brooklyn for them to absorb Frazier (a $2M contract). Brooklyn would then take over the remaining pro-rated portion of Frazier's salary (about $800,000) and Brooklyn's owner would net $400,000 cash in the transaction. Ted would lose the $400,000 cash but our cap figure would drop by $2M, which would save $3M in luxtax penalties. It's a win-win.

This is a great idea, & I believe we could do it w/ both Frazier & McCullough -- the Nets have the cap room.
The problem with this is that it leaves us w/ only 12 players. I believe the minimum is 13. We can bring up
Robinson for some time, but I don't know whether that would get us straight w/ the CBA roster size rules.

An interesting variant to the above would be to ask about Tyler Zeller. If they don't intend to pick up his option, & if by the time we do the deal we've continued to lose & are ready to pack it in for this season, we could include Scott & take back Zeller in the deal.

We'd lose Scott, but nothing would prevent us from re-signing him in the off-season, assuming he's still affordable. & we'd gain a pretty good rotation-level player for next year for just under $2m.
But, again, we're left w/ only 12 players for the rest of this year, so there might be no benefit to including Scott.

dlts20 wrote:

80sballboy wrote:

dlts20 wrote:This is going to sound crazy but to me, the Cousins injury is the best thing that could have happened. Everything before was a pipe dream. We had 0 percent chance to get him. Now I actually think we can and I would give up anything besides our backcourt and Oubre

Huh? He's a FA this summer. So sure, you are going to trade for an injured player who is going to get $170M for 5 years next summer for some team. Now would the Pels, if they want to make the playoffs, take Gortat maybe in some deal and we'd try and get another big somewhere else?

Hell yes. The problem is that everyone wants to wait around for the perfect deal but it's about winning championships and 99 percent of the time, a team like the Wiz has no chance of winning a title unless they draft a transcendent talent which you can't do as a playoff team or you just have to push all of your chips in and go for a huge high risk, high reward type of play. It is our only chance. You can make a thousand trade threads but none of them bring us back a super star. Our only chance probably is to go all in on an injured FA who demands big money. I'm all for it.

To me it comes down to injury. I could care less about the money or the FA. Boogie is loyal, he loves Wall, this is a place that everyone wants to live, this is the EC with an older LeBron, and he has never been to the playoffs. I have no doubt that he would resign with us.

The injury is definitely scary and he may be done but a team like the Wizards has to take that chance. Others don't but we do. Also I don't think Cousins game is predicated on explosiveness as much as others are so I have confidence in his ability to bounce back. Even 80 percent of him is worth it IMO

No thanks. Speaking of defensive effort but you better get rid of Mahinmi and a bunch of others to sign him.

nate33 wrote:

payitforward wrote:Hmmm. Could the "extra" $3-4m I suggested be a separate transaction to buy their R2 pick for which it seems to be about the going price? Hence it's not a faked up part of the other deal.

No team can give away more than $5.1 cash (in total, in all trade transactions) in a year. No team can receive more than $5.1M cash (in total, in all trade transactions) in a year.

Got it...

dlts20 wrote:This is going to sound crazy but to me, the Cousins injury is the best thing that could have happened. Everything before was a pipe dream. We had 0 percent chance to get him. Now I actually think we can and I would give up anything besides our backcourt and Oubre

So we give up assets for his bird rights

This would be a #soWizards deal. Give up assets, sign him to a huge deal and watch him never make it back to form.

Mark Price part deux.

The more realistic scenario is probably Cousins refusing to sign a below market rate deal with the Pelicans and Washington signing him to a one year deal

queridiculo wrote:The more realistic scenario is probably Cousins refusing to sign a below market rate deal with the Pelicans and Washington signing him to a one year deal

Nah, that won't work either. We could only sign him for the MLE. And even in the highly unlikely circumstance that he'd take that deal, we wouldn't be able to get his Bird Rights unless he stayed for 3 years (at an MLE salary).

Man, I'm having a feeling the Grunfeld is going to make a move for DeAndre Jordan.

It's the move that perfectly fits Grunfeld's MO, and Ernie's reluctant max player is going to be the key piece to get it done.

Seriously, sweetening the pot with our first and absolving himself from the Mahinmi mess in a fell swoop, it doesn't get more Grunfeld than that.

queridiculo wrote:Man, I'm having a feeling the Grunfeld is going to make a move for DeAndre Jordan.

It's the move that perfectly fits Grunfeld's MO, and Ernie's reluctant max player is going to be the key piece to get it done.

Seriously, sweetening the pot with our first and absolving himself from the Mahinmi mess in a fell swoop, it doesn't get more Grunfeld than that.

If EG can turn Mahinmi and filler (presumably Jason Smith) into DeAndre Jordan while sacrificing only one 1st round pick, I'd be just fine with it.

It's probably going to cost a pick to dump Mahinmi no matter what we do. If the player we get back is a legit top 7ish center, that that's a pretty good deal.