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Although nobody will say it, I think certain Wizards' players like life better without John Wall running the show.

I know production without Wall's presence always takes a dip eventually, but it always seems like the team plays more together when he's not in the lineup.

I think subconsciously the guys play more focused and with more respect for the game and each other when Wall's not in there. Either that or they openly express to one another that there must be a concerted effort to play in harmony knowing that Wall's absence could create a hole too big to be filled if allowed.

40 assists in a game?

Without Wall...Are you kidding me !??

I do believe that there's some validity to J.J. Barea's comment about Wall that suggests his teammates may not like playing with him all that much.

I think Wall's value is recognized by his guys, but still that doesn't mean his teammates don't recognize the other qualities that may make him not so much fun to be around.

Qualities like his domineering personality, his tendency to disrupt other players' flow by demanding the ball to be in his hand, deciding for the other guys when they'll have to fall back and just ball-watch as he tries to take his man one-on-one, or his penchant for displaying tunnel-vision and attempting the not-so-smart play that results in a turnover in favor of the smarter, simpler, higher percentage play.

40 assist though ?!?

It's almost like it's the guys collectively try to show that the team doesn't or at least doesn't have to revolve around John Wall and that life can in fact go on without him with performances like last night's.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems as though Wall's absence, at least initially, always serves as a breath of fresh air for certain guys.

It's one game.

The players all know Wall makes the team better. But its obvious Wall going ISO and not moving without the ball... and not playing defense is a hindrance to the team. He needs to get healthy and get back to playing as he did in the playoffs.

Where was this same energy when the Jazz gave us the worst point-differential loss in franchise history without Wall?

I’ll say this though, a nagging injury Wall makes us awful to watch, but an at least 90% healthy Wall makes us a lot better.

Pump the brakes.

They can welcome a life without Wall elsewhere. No one on this team besides Beal is good enough for his feelings to matter when determining whether to move Wall.

I think one of the biggest differences between Wall and Sato/Frazier is that Sato/Frazier move without the ball.

With Wall, it's either going to be him being the primary ball handler and making a pass or shot, or he's going to give it to Beal and go stand around by the three point line so the defense can load up on Beal.

That stat someone posted a couple of weeks back is profound: Wall is second in the league to only the 40-year-old DIrk Nowitzki in total minutes per game that he is standing still. You just can't have your point guard/superstar play like that.

To be fair, some of this is due to injury, but maybe that injury is helping to foster bad habits.

This is not an attempt to bash Wall. Wall is clearly an extremely talented player with great court vision, incredible speed in the open floor, and good help defense. He does many things on the court that nobody else can do. We absolutely need him if we're going to be anything better than a 45-ish win team. But Wall needs to understand the things that he isn't doing well and address them. Move without the ball on offense. Fight through screens on defense. Avoid shooting midrange jumpers unless there's 5 seconds left on the shot clock. These are not unrealistic expectations.

nate33 wrote:I think one of the biggest differences between Wall and Sato/Frazier is that Sato/Frazier move without the ball.

With Wall, it's either going to be him being the primary ball handler and making a pass or shot, or he's going to give it to Beal and go stand around by the three point line so the defense can load up on Beal.

That stat someone posted a couple of weeks back is profound: Wall is second in the league to only the 40-year-old DIrk Nowitzki in total minutes per game that he is standing still. You just can't have your point guard/superstar play like that.

To be fair, some of this is due to injury, but maybe that injury is helping to foster bad habits.

This is not an attempt to bash Wall. Wall is clearly an extremely talented player with great court vision, incredible speed in the open floor, and good help defense. He does many things on the court that nobody else can do. We absolutely need him if we're going to be anything better than a 45-ish win team. But Wall needs to understand the things that he isn't doing well and address them. Move without the ball on offense. Fight through screens on defense. Avoid shooting midrange jumpers unless there's 5 seconds left on the shot clock. These are not unrealistic expectations.

One word: Coaching. Yes, Wall needs to know and understand what he needs to do and not do to help the Zards win, but at the end of the day it's the coach's responsibility to both deliver that message and enforce it.

BTW, when it comes to the question posed by this thread I agree with both FAH and Error Afflalo.

nate33 wrote:I think one of the biggest differences between Wall and Sato/Frazier is that Sato/Frazier move without the ball.

With Wall, it's either going to be him being the primary ball handler and making a pass or shot, or he's going to give it to Beal and go stand around by the three point line so the defense can load up on Beal.

That stat someone posted a couple of weeks back is profound: Wall is second in the league to only the 40-year-old DIrk Nowitzki in total minutes per game that he is standing still. You just can't have your point guard/superstar play like that.

To be fair, some of this is due to injury, but maybe that injury is helping to foster bad habits.

This is not an attempt to bash Wall. Wall is clearly an extremely talented player with great court vision, incredible speed in the open floor, and good help defense. He does many things on the court that nobody else can do. We absolutely need him if we're going to be anything better than a 45-ish win team. But Wall needs to understand the things that he isn't doing well and address them. Move without the ball on offense. Fight through screens on defense. Avoid shooting midrange jumpers unless there's 5 seconds left on the shot clock. These are not unrealistic expectations.

When the Wizards lost to Boston in the playoffs, the things Wall isn't doing well now were on full display then.

DCZards points out that is up to the coach to "deliver the message and enforce" on things which help the team. I don't think the coach can do it. I'm not certain if Wall will receive it or change. It's reasonable to expect effort toward change but I don't think it's reasonable to expect much to change.

"Would Certain Wizards' Players Welcome a Life Without John Wall?"

I think the simple answer is the Wizards need to play the right way, with or without John Wall.

Haha, we beat literally the worst team in the league and now they welcome not having Wall? We literally have the only roster in the league where we have routinely said that no one besides Beal can get their own shot without Wall. All that happened was law of averages. We have been missing every single shot lately. We were due to have a beast shooting game to resort back to the means. Right now Wall is hurt so hes been pretty bad but let's not act like we are better without Wallstar

dlts20 wrote:Haha, we beat literally the worst team in the league and now they welcome not having Wall? We literally have the only roster in the league where we have routinely said that no one besides Beal can get their own shot without Wall. All that happened was law of averages. We have been missing every single shot lately. We were due to have a beast shooting game to resort back to the means. Right now Wall is hurt so hes been pretty bad but let's not act like we are better without Wallstar

Problem I'm having with some of the responses, like yours, is that they seem to suggest that I'm suggesting that the Wizards could possibly have the type of production they had last night every other night with an injured John Wall on the bench.

This isn't the case.

I've already pointed out that the Wizards minus John Wall in the lineup, many times have strong performances initially, which then fade, causing you to remember why John Wall is so needed for the team to have success.

I ask the question not necessarily with Satoransky/Frazier in mind as Wall's replacement, but with another stud PG who doesn't possess those negative John Wall traits that I mentioned in mind.

Would certain Wizards players be welcoming of a sound decision-making, high assist guy that doesn't stall the offense or try to match the opposition's PG at the expense of the four other players on court and the departure of Wall, considering without Wall they were able to be so productive and dominant in winning fashion?

I've been the biggest supporter of Wall, from day one, when people were in doubt of his talent, or knees holding up, but I feel more and more like the Wizards will go but so far with Wall running the show because of the same bad habits he had as a second- year player still persisting.


And yes I realize they were playing the Hawks, but let's not act like the Wizards haven't been $******* the bed versus lesser opponents night in and night out.

Wall is a controversial player because, when you watch him play, you can immediately see how he could be better if only he made different decisions on the court. He could be a top 10 player, but instead he's a top 20-30 player because of the decisions he makes.

That's different from, say, Beal or Porter. When you watch them play, you may wish they had more innate talent, or more athleticism, but you can't sit there and say that they'd be much better if only they chose to do X more often. Beal and Porter are pretty much maximizing their talent. The only way they can get better is with lots of offseason work, and even that would only lead to incremental improvement.

FAH1223 wrote:It's one game.

The players all know Wall makes the team better. But its obvious Wall going ISO and not moving without the ball... and not playing defense is a hindrance to the team. He needs to get healthy and get back to playing as he did in the playoffs.

The players know Wall makes the team better, fine, but do you think they all believe they are the best they can possibly be with Wall running the show vs. another starting quality PG?

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:

FAH1223 wrote:It's one game.

The players all know Wall makes the team better. But its obvious Wall going ISO and not moving without the ball... and not playing defense is a hindrance to the team. He needs to get healthy and get back to playing as he did in the playoffs.

The players know Wall makes the team better, fine, but do you think they all believe they are the best they can possibly be with Wall running the show vs. another starting quality PG?

Depends. Would Otto Porter get the shots he gets here playing with the Nets? Doubt it. Gortat in the past has loved Wall's floor game getting him easy buckets and he played with Steve Nash for a little bit.

Looking around the league, Steph Curry was playing a lot of ISO ball and jacking up terrible shots under Mark Jackson.

He still will go one on one but he's passing and cutting/setting screens off the ball at a level I didn't see from 2009-2014.

Kyrie Irving this season has been doing a lot more off-ball action playing under Stevens than he did in CLE where he was often ball watching LeBron or going one on one when he got the rock.

If we had a coach that emphasized moving off the ball and all of that... with a SYSTEM... then we could see Wall take that jump. But after 8 years in the NBA... it may be too late to change those habits.

LMFAO, cool story bro. This reminds me of a couple of feel good movies "that escapes my memory" story. John is the Devil lil Bert is the hero.

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:

FAH1223 wrote:It's one game.

The players all know Wall makes the team better. But its obvious Wall going ISO and not moving without the ball... and not playing defense is a hindrance to the team. He needs to get healthy and get back to playing as he did in the playoffs.

The players know Wall makes the team better, fine, but do you think they all believe they are the best they can possibly be with Wall running the show vs. another starting quality PG?

Which players are you talking about? Because the only players on this roster worth a damn are Wall, Beal, Oubre & Porter (and if I were the Wizards I'd be fielding the best trade offers for Porter) . If anyone else on the team has a problem with Wall , they can get traded tomorrow and nobody would care because they are irrelevant..

One positive is Johns increased use and proficiency in the catch and shoot 3. Wall has never been one to cut and move around picks to create space (I.e Beal), So he has two options:
1) Create space by dribbling
2) Shoot open shots the defenders give him

He can be good at 1, but when he is off, its maddening because its horrid to watch as a basketball fan.
2 was never much of option because the only shots he was left open for were 3's and some long 2's.

My hope is, he looks at someone like Jason Kidd, or even Lowry on how to become a better offensive player while dominating the ball less in iso's.
Lowry's 1st 5 seasons as a starter (24-28), he shot about 36% from 3 and had a 3PAr of 42%
His last 2.5 years (29-31), he has shot 39% from 3 and had a 3PAr of 50%

Wall is shooting a career high from 3 (36%), with a career high 3PAr (24.5%). There is some light in this tunnel, so we'll see

FAH1223 wrote:

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:

FAH1223 wrote:It's one game.

The players all know Wall makes the team better. But its obvious Wall going ISO and not moving without the ball... and not playing defense is a hindrance to the team. He needs to get healthy and get back to playing as he did in the playoffs.

The players know Wall makes the team better, fine, but do you think they all believe they are the best they can possibly be with Wall running the show vs. another starting quality PG?

Depends. Would Otto Porter get the shots he gets here playing with the Nets? Doubt it. Gortat in the past has loved Wall's floor game getting him easy buckets and he played with Steve Nash for a little bit.

Looking around the league, Steph Curry was playing a lot of ISO ball and jacking up terrible shots under Mark Jackson.

He still will go one on one but he's passing and cutting/setting screens off the ball at a level I didn't see from 2009-2014.

Kyrie Irving this season has been doing a lot more off-ball action playing under Stevens than he did in CLE where he was often ball watching LeBron or going one on one when he got the rock.

If we had a coach that emphasized moving off the ball and all of that... with a SYSTEM... then we could see Wall take that jump. But after 8 years in the NBA... it may be too late to change those habits.

This post really resonates with me. Scotty B has been good for player development (Beal, Oubre, Porter seem to have made leaps that they may/may not have made under Whittles). Maybe its time to bring in a system guy.

dangermouse wrote:

FAH1223 wrote:

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
The players know Wall makes the team better, fine, but do you think they all believe they are the best they can possibly be with Wall running the show vs. another starting quality PG?

Depends. Would Otto Porter get the shots he gets here playing with the Nets? Doubt it. Gortat in the past has loved Wall's floor game getting him easy buckets and he played with Steve Nash for a little bit.

Looking around the league, Steph Curry was playing a lot of ISO ball and jacking up terrible shots under Mark Jackson.

He still will go one on one but he's passing and cutting/setting screens off the ball at a level I didn't see from 2009-2014.

Kyrie Irving this season has been doing a lot more off-ball action playing under Stevens than he did in CLE where he was often ball watching LeBron or going one on one when he got the rock.

If we had a coach that emphasized moving off the ball and all of that... with a SYSTEM... then we could see Wall take that jump. But after 8 years in the NBA... it may be too late to change those habits.

This post really resonates with me. Scotty B has been good for player development (Beal, Oubre, Porter seem to have made leaps that they may/may not have made under Whittles). Maybe its time to bring in a system guy.

I agree with you'll about Brooks, but maybe there is one thing different now that Brooks hasnt had since he came here:
Control Group

When Wall sits, we usually go down the toilet with guys like Jennings and Burke... But we now have Sato and to a lesser extent, Frazier.
Both play solid defense, hustle, move the ball, and in Satos case, can score pretty well.
This allows Brooks to point to a better way of basketball instead of relying on Wall to be the engine and deal with his faults.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

nate33 wrote:I think one of the biggest differences between Wall and Sato/Frazier is that Sato/Frazier move without the ball.

With Wall, it's either going to be him being the primary ball handler and making a pass or shot, or he's going to give it to Beal and go stand around by the three point line so the defense can load up on Beal.

That stat someone posted a couple of weeks back is profound: Wall is second in the league to only the 40-year-old DIrk Nowitzki in total minutes per game that he is standing still. You just can't have your point guard/superstar play like that.

To be fair, some of this is due to injury, but maybe that injury is helping to foster bad habits.

This is not an attempt to bash Wall. Wall is clearly an extremely talented player with great court vision, incredible speed in the open floor, and good help defense. He does many things on the court that nobody else can do. We absolutely need him if we're going to be anything better than a 45-ish win team. But Wall needs to understand the things that he isn't doing well and address them. Move without the ball on offense. Fight through screens on defense. Avoid shooting midrange jumpers unless there's 5 seconds left on the shot clock. These are not unrealistic expectations.

When the Wizards lost to Boston in the playoffs, the things Wall isn't doing well now were on full display then.

DCZards points out that is up to the coach to "deliver the message and enforce" on things which help the team. I don't think the coach can do it. I'm not certain if Wall will receive it or change. It's reasonable to expect effort toward change but I don't think it's reasonable to expect much to change.

"Would Certain Wizards' Players Welcome a Life Without John Wall?"

I think the simple answer is the Wizards need to play the right way, with or without John Wall.

Yeah, not sure if it's reasonable to blame the coach for Wall's faults. Benching Wall really isn't an option, because no matter if people like him or dislike him, he's the face of the franchise, and he's earned that distinction over the years. It'd become a national story and too much of a negative distraction for the entire team, imo.

Illmatic12 wrote:

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:

FAH1223 wrote:It's one game.

The players all know Wall makes the team better. But its obvious Wall going ISO and not moving without the ball... and not playing defense is a hindrance to the team. He needs to get healthy and get back to playing as he did in the playoffs.

The players know Wall makes the team better, fine, but do you think they all believe they are the best they can possibly be with Wall running the show vs. another starting quality PG?

Which players are you talking about? Because the only players on this roster worth a damn are Wall, Beal, Oubre & Porter (and if I were the Wizards I'd be fielding the best trade offers for Porter) . If anyone else on the team has a problem with Wall , they can get traded tomorrow and nobody would care because they are irrelevant..

I definitely think Beal, for one, wouldn't mind the change.

When Wall is on the floor I get the sense a lot of times that guys feel they are being forced to defer to Wall.

Beal seems to play freer and have more fun when Wall's out of an entire game.