Political Roundtable Part XVIII

[stilldropin20]

Despite what some may think I do have an open mind...so make me see what I'm missing:

Make me see the "This is worse than watergate" scandal.

To me that 4 page memo said absolutely nothing that we didn't already know..and was missing key details that would have shed light on many things.

I could be tempted to explain this further but I need more proof that this"open mind" exists.

Here let's start with the entire intelligence Community, along with the entire FBI, along with nearly every single Democrat did not want this released and the reasons for doing so or extremely over-the-top. Just that kind of visceral reaction should open up your eyes raise your eyebrows I'm prop up your ears.

These people are all too intelligent to step on any landmines and admit to breaking laws. But lets just look at Brit hume' s response to Comey tweet.

And while we're looking at Brit hume's response let's look at Zonkers post above. "nothing Burger but he hates the Patriot Act. "

Read on Twitter

That little thing in the back of your head somewhere in your spinal cord that alarm that says something is not right here, that should be going off. And if it's not then there is nothing I can ever say or do to convince you that something disturbingly wrong occurred with rdlj FBI in 2016 and 2017. And still exist today in the form of a special prosecutor.


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Honestly, I don't care about Britt Hume's opinion or speculation.

I asked what specifically was in the memo that constituted a "Watergate level" scandal.

I'll wait for your response....minus the insults.

I wasn't trying to insult you in my last post or in really any post. you are pretty straight up poster. But there are few guys in this thread that's certainly push buttons and from time to time and maybe I push their buttons. in particular two of them but because of the contentiousness of the posting back and forth with them sometimes that contention bleeds over into other posters that take up similar positions add them.

As for this memo, it's not really new news for me because I've known about this for many months as I've said multiple times. However the memo names names and I think that's important.

To have this conversation, There are a couple things we need to recall.

1. Donald Trump is currently under investigation by special prosecutor for conspiring to collude with a foreign power to rig our elections. Read that sentence 5 times and let it fully sink in.

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

We now are getting a full look at the sources and methods that sprung this investigation. More is coming out to expose exactly the sources and methods but given where we are at right now, is there a bone in your body that believes this is any type of a righteous and lawful investigation?



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[stilldropin20]

And maybe the answer to that question for you or other posters in this thread is yes.

Maybe that answer is yes.

And if that answer is yes, then I propose that you had better be prepared for the same type of retaliation in 2020 and 2024. And really any election cycle going forward From Here to Eternity.

If that's the world you want to live in and if that's what you are going to allow our department of justice and FBI of any current Administration due to the opposition party then fair game is fair game. So be it.

But I don't think any of you are ready for that world. I think you are all being very short-sighted and I think you are using some type of" the means justifies the ends" rationale because you don't like Donald Trump.

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[montestewart]

It is interesting watching this all play out. Personally, I am going to wait until 4 years after the next administration to decide what actually happens. It usually takes that long for the real story to surface. But I do have a bit of advice for the Democratic Party arguing with Trump:

“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

― Mark Twain

I always say that to myself in the mirror, but he never listens...

[Wizardspride]

I could be tempted to explain this further but I need more proof that this"open mind" exists.

Here let's start with the entire intelligence Community, along with the entire FBI, along with nearly every single Democrat did not want this released and the reasons for doing so or extremely over-the-top. Just that kind of visceral reaction should open up your eyes raise your eyebrows I'm prop up your ears.

These people are all too intelligent to step on any landmines and admit to breaking laws. But lets just look at Brit hume' s response to Comey tweet.

And while we're looking at Brit hume's response let's look at Zonkers post above. "nothing Burger but he hates the Patriot Act. "

Read on Twitter

That little thing in the back of your head somewhere in your spinal cord that alarm that says something is not right here, that should be going off. And if it's not then there is nothing I can ever say or do to convince you that something disturbingly wrong occurred with rdlj FBI in 2016 and 2017. And still exist today in the form of a special prosecutor.


Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

Honestly, I don't care about Britt Hume's opinion or speculation.

I asked what specifically was in the memo that constituted a "Watergate level" scandal.

I'll wait for your response....minus the insults.

I wasn't trying to insult you in my last post or in really any post. you are pretty straight up poster. But there are few guys in this thread that's certainly push buttons and from time to time and maybe I push their buttons. in particular two of them but because of the contentiousness of the posting back and forth with them sometimes that contention bleeds over into other posters that take up similar positions add them.

As for this memo, it's not really new news for me because I've known about this for many months as I've said multiple times. However the memo names names and I think that's important.

To have this conversation, There are a couple things we need to recall.

1. Donald Trump is currently under investigation by special prosecutor for conspiring to collude with a foreign power to rig our elections. Read that sentence 5 times and let it fully sink in.

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

We now are getting a full look at the sources and methods that sprung this investigation. More is coming out to expose exactly the sources and methods but given where we are at right now, is there a bone in your body that believes this is any type of a righteous and lawful investigation?



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My bad about the insult thing.

Now about Trump colluding with Russia: No, I haven't seen any evidence that Donald Trump himself directly colluded with Russia.

Now do I think there's enough questionable (shady?) contacts between Trump associates and Russians (Russian intelligence) to be concerned? I sure do.

Personally, I think there's much more evidence of Trump attempting to obstruct. He clearly imo, is fixated on ending this investigation and the question is "WHY?"

I mean even if he feels its total BS, just let the thing play out and then he'd have the last laugh...but he's acting like he's afraid of something.

[stilldropin20]

Honestly, I don't care about Britt Hume's opinion or speculation.

I asked what specifically was in the memo that constituted a "Watergate level" scandal.

I'll wait for your response....minus the insults.

I wasn't trying to insult you in my last post or in really any post. you are pretty straight up poster. But there are few guys in this thread that's certainly push buttons and from time to time and maybe I push their buttons. in particular two of them but because of the contentiousness of the posting back and forth with them sometimes that contention bleeds over into other posters that take up similar positions add them.

As for this memo, it's not really new news for me because I've known about this for many months as I've said multiple times. However the memo names names and I think that's important.

To have this conversation, There are a couple things we need to recall.

1. Donald Trump is currently under investigation by special prosecutor for conspiring to collude with a foreign power to rig our elections. Read that sentence 5 times and let it fully sink in.

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

We now are getting a full look at the sources and methods that sprung this investigation. More is coming out to expose exactly the sources and methods but given where we are at right now, is there a bone in your body that believes this is any type of a righteous and lawful investigation?



Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

My bad about the insult thing.

Now about Trump colluding with Russia: No, I haven't seen any evidence that Donald Trump himself directly colluded with Russia.

Now do I think there's enough questionable (shady?) contacts between Trump associates and Russians (Russian intelligence) to be concerned? I sure do.

Personally, I think there's much more evidence of Trump attempting to obstruct. He clearly imo, is fixated on ending this investigation and the question is "WHY?"

I mean even if he feels its total BS, just let the thing play out and then he'd have the last laugh...but he's acting like he's afraid of something.

But here's the thing. It has played out.

Everyone that can be investigated on this original collusion charge has been investigated except the president himself. And if there is some collusion stuff there? Let's get them. Absolutely.

But if interviewing him is just a ploy to catch him up an obstruction?

I have to ask obstruction of what exactly? Obstruction of this entirely bogus collusion investigation to begin with?

And again? We should just let this continue?

Imagine if a George Bush Department of Justice and FBI had done this to Obama. Or imagine if Trump does this to the next Administration. There is more on the line here then Donald Trump's reputation. The doj and FBI is reputation and all the personal players in between.

Democracy itself is on the line. Whenever we don't like a candidate or then-president we can simply fling an investigation on them.

And I would add that whenever any type of political Outsider attempts to run for president this or something like this will happen to them every time because they don't have the alliance's yet within the political Elite.

And this particular then-candidate now president was capable. Indeed a billion. His legal fees already have exceeded 25 million dollars. Let me point to the fact that Barack Obama entered office with four million dollars. Barack Obama would not have survived this. And that would have been a travesty. Just because Donald Trump has thick skin a tough shell and is it capable billionaire doesn't make it any less of a travesty.

At this point, I'm not so sure there's a big difference anymore between political Elite and royalty or oligarchy. But there should be. There is supposed to be. The house of cards that is the United States political system and like I said yesterday the Frailty of democracy is an extremely delicate thing not only for us as US citizens but for the entire world. This is supposed to be the beacon of light. The Pinnacle of free and fair elections. Like Michael Jackson once said, "this is it."

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[Ruzious]

To have this conversation, There are a couple things we need to recall.

1. Donald Trump is currently under investigation by special prosecutor for conspiring to collude with a foreign power to rig our elections. Read that sentence 5 times and let it fully sink in.

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

We now are getting a full look at the sources and methods that sprung this investigation. More is coming out to expose exactly the sources and methods but given where we are at right now, is there a bone in your body that believes this is any type of a righteous and lawful investigation?

Let this sink in: The special prosecutor is a Republican. The FBI has been and still is run by Republicans, and Trump's hand-picked guy to run the FBI strongly advised against releasing "the memo". Everything is run by Republicans. Trump in the past has said about others being investigated - "As long as they're innocent, why should they mind being investigated?" Why doesn't that logic apply to him??? Why does he try to fire/remove/force out everyone who isn't "loyal" to him? What's the last President that fired/removed/forced out so many people that he himself previously chose or endorsed? What motivation does the FBI and special prosecutor have other than to get at the truth? And how in the f does anyone think Nunes has any credibility?

[montestewart]

Donald Trump has thick skin

So, you guys, if any of this upsets you, it's really your own fault...

[dckingsfan]

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

Yes, absolutely. There is no question that the Russians tried and did influence the election. Until we know the who, what, when, where and how of their methods and how to curtail that behavior in the future - we should keep digging.

[dckingsfan]

To have this conversation, There are a couple things we need to recall.

1. Donald Trump is currently under investigation by special prosecutor for conspiring to collude with a foreign power to rig our elections. Read that sentence 5 times and let it fully sink in.

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

We now are getting a full look at the sources and methods that sprung this investigation. More is coming out to expose exactly the sources and methods but given where we are at right now, is there a bone in your body that believes this is any type of a righteous and lawful investigation?

Let this sink in: The special prosecutor is a Republican. The FBI has been and still is run by Republicans, and Trump's hand-picked guy to run the FBI strongly advised against releasing "the memo". Everything is run by Republicans. Trump in the past has said about others being investigated - "As long as they're innocent, why should they mind being investigated?" Why doesn't that logic apply to him??? Why does he try to fire/remove/force out everyone who isn't "loyal" to him? What's the last President that fired/removed/forced out so many people that he himself previously chose or endorsed? What motivation does the FBI and special prosecutor have other than to get at the truth? And how in the f does anyone think Nunes has any credibility?

The only problem with this line of thinking is that Trump is not an R.

[Ruzious]

Well, it depends on what day it is.

[stilldropin20]

To have this conversation, There are a couple things we need to recall.

1. Donald Trump is currently under investigation by special prosecutor for conspiring to collude with a foreign power to rig our elections. Read that sentence 5 times and let it fully sink in.

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

We now are getting a full look at the sources and methods that sprung this investigation. More is coming out to expose exactly the sources and methods but given where we are at right now, is there a bone in your body that believes this is any type of a righteous and lawful investigation?

Let this sink in: The special prosecutor is a Republican. The FBI has been and still is run by Republicans, and Trump's hand-picked guy to run the FBI strongly advised against releasing "the memo". Everything is run by Republicans. Trump in the past has said about others being investigated - "As long as they're innocent, why should they mind being investigated?" Why doesn't that logic apply to him??? Why does he try to fire/remove/force out everyone who isn't "loyal" to him? What's the last President that fired/removed/forced out so many people that he himself previously chose or endorsed? What motivation does the FBI and special prosecutor have other than to get at the truth? And how in the f does anyone think Nunes has any credibility?

The investigation was launched in December 2016. It's now February 2018. The FBI CIA and essentially all of our intelligence departments began this investigation then. The Senate and the house launched an investigation simultaneously.

That's a lot of Investigations.

Add to them a special prosecutor.

And they all have come up with nothing in terms of any type of collusion activity with Donald Trump himself and his campaign with any foreign entity. Now if manafort or anybody else wants to point those fingers donaldtrump then point those fingers already and let's get on with impeachment. Absolutely.

But if there is nothing there tying anyone or any entity to any type of collusion to rig the election then it's time to let this thing go.

And if you don't want to let this go then you are on nothing more than a political witch-hunt. Russia collusion with Trump is a ruse.

And that's fine if you want to do the political witch-hunt but again be prepared for the same thing to happen in 2020 or 2024 and any election cycle going forward. And if you want to expose the Frailty of our democracy and are free and fair elections to this kind of political play then so be it. But I think you are just being petulant and short-sighted.

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[Ruzious]

Petulant AND short-sighted... the daily double!

Again, I'll repeat the President's words: If there's nothing there, then why worry? Actually panic seems to be a more accurate word in this case. Releasing misleading and incomplete memos written by Nunes is what?

[stilldropin20]

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

Yes, absolutely. There is no question that the Russians tried and did influence the election. Until we know the who, what, when, where and how of their methods and how to curtail that behavior in the future - we should keep digging.

It's been 15 straight months of CNN spin on the actual facts but this statement is absolutely false. There has been no evidence what so ever that Trump or anyone close to trump colluded with Russia. Please post the actual evidence if you have it. Maybe I missed something?

Per our (entire) intelligence community and per Barrack Obama himself in November 2016. "Russia meddled in our elections but did not influence our election."

Meddled. yes. "did influence?" No. Not according to all of those sources. An dcollusion by Trump? None anyone has ever seen nor anyone has presented. If it existed, he would be impeached already.

We have (over 5) current and ongoing investigation into meddling in our elections: 1. CIA, 2. FBI, 3. DHS, 4. Our various Cyber depts, 5. House intel. 6 Senate intel investigations. WOW!! All of those investigation to investigate "meddling and and attempt to influence the election" and all of those investigation are looking at all ways and means for which Russia "meddled."

Add to all of those investigation, we added a special prosecutor. And again,Why?????????? As we peeled back the layers of the sources and methods we are finding that there is no evidence that Trump colluded with anyone. yet this special presecutor exists.

And the special prosecutor solely exists to entrap the president into obstruction charges. and i do understand that legit obstruction of justice is a legit issue. But in this case we are talking about obstruction of the investigation in russian collusion. Of which no evidence at all has appeared. Indeed there has been no collusion. So if Trump knows he DID NOT collude. Then he is NOT capable of committing obstruction of justice. because inherent in any obstruciton of justice charge you must demonstrate intent. and implied in that intent is guilt. You must be guilty of the underlying charge. You must be covering something up. indeed something must be there underneath it. And if NOTHING is there. if there is no "there" there. then it is NOT possible to obstruct justice.

So there is something there to the collusion or there is not. If there is not its time to wrap up the special prosecutor. Keep going with Russian meddling for years. decades. i dont care. But the special prosecution into Trump has run its course.

[nate33]

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

Yes, absolutely. There is no question that the Russians tried and did influence the election. Until we know the who, what, when, where and how of their methods and how to curtail that behavior in the future - we should keep digging.

There really isn't much evidence of this. The Russians certainly meddled in the election to sow chaos, but there really isn't any evidence that they picked sides in the election, or that the influence had any tangible outcome. Their influence on the election was negligible, and certainly no more than the influence of other countries like Mexico, Israel, Great Britain, and Ukraine.

Please try and be honest about this. If the Deep State looks hard enough, they can find circumstantial evidence of "collusion" like this in any campaign. And if they have the ability to use the full power of the NSA without rigorous oversight, it essentially ends our democracy.

The Deep State investigation included underhanded, intentionally dishonest, and perhaps illegal techniques coupled with deliberate leaking in an effort to undermine the President. Anyone in the left would be going ballistic if this happened to Obama. Indeed, it never would have happened because the media would not have been so complicit in the leaking if it was anti-Obama leaks. Instead, they would have asked questions about how this information was obtained.

[dckingsfan]

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

Yes, absolutely. There is no question that the Russians tried and did influence the election. Until we know the who, what, when, where and how of their methods and how to curtail that behavior in the future - we should keep digging.

There really isn't much evidence of this. The Russians certainly meddled in the election to sow chaos, but there really isn't any evidence that they picked sides in the election, or that the influence had any tangible outcome. Their influence on the election was negligible, and certainly no more than the influence of other countries like Mexico, Israel and Ukraine.

Please try and be honest about this. If the Deep State looks hard enough, they can find circumstantial evidence of "collusion" like this in any campaign. And if they have the ability to use the full power of the NSA without rigorous oversight, it essentially ends our democracy.

The Deep State investigation included underhanded, intentionally dishonest, and perhaps illegal techniques coupled with deliberate leaking in an effort to undermine the President. Anyone in the left would be going ballistic if this happened to Obama. Indeed, it never would have happened because the media would not have been so complicit in the leaking if it was anti-Obama leaks. Instead, they would have asked questions about how this information was obtained.

As an independent - I don't care if the Russians picked sides - I want a very deep investigation that doesn't end until we keep them from meddling - if that takes two or three administrations - I am fine with that.

[dckingsfan]

Then ask yourself has there been any evidence at all presented to the American people that he colluded with anyone to rig the election.

Yes, absolutely. There is no question that the Russians tried and did influence the election. Until we know the who, what, when, where and how of their methods and how to curtail that behavior in the future - we should keep digging.

or anyone close to trump colluded with Russia.

We should just keep digging until we know who that is... don't care who really. But don't stop digging until the meddling is terminated.

[dckingsfan]

Well, it depends on what day it is.

Well, from what I can see - never has been, never will be... bits and pieces from both sides of the aisle where it fits (depending on what day it is).

[nate33]

Yes, absolutely. There is no question that the Russians tried and did influence the election. Until we know the who, what, when, where and how of their methods and how to curtail that behavior in the future - we should keep digging.

or anyone close to trump colluded with Russia.

We should just keep digging until we know who that is... don't care who really. But don't stop digging until the meddling is terminated.

If so, then I assume you support a detailed investigation of Ukrainian and Russian meddling in the Clinton campaign.

[Kanyewest]

Trump and Russia, Clinton and Ukraine: How do they compare?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/12/did-ukraine-try-help-clinton-way-russia-helped-tru/

[nate33]

Trump and Russia, Clinton and Ukraine: How do they compare?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/12/did-ukraine-try-help-clinton-way-russia-helped-tru/

That's a pretty good article, Kanyewest. However there is one glaring error:

Which leads to the other big distinction: The Russians got their materials through cyber-attacks, while the only telling document revealed by a Ukrainian lawmaker was the product of an official investigation.

This is false. As in untrue. Not real. A lie. The DNC "hack" was made on site by an individual with a USB drive. It was not a cyberhack.