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Political Roundtable Part XVIII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#801 » by verbal8 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:09 am

FAH1223 wrote:
verbal8 wrote:If there is nothing to the Russia/Trump connection, why did Trump fail to enforce the Russian sanctions?


Simple. He's got financial interests at stake or former business partners who gave him money in the past which will be disrupted by sanctions.

Sounds like emoluments to me.

FAH1223 wrote:One thing regarding sanctions. The USA's reliance on using sanctions is going to become toothless at some point. Russia, Iran, China and other countries are starting to operate outside of the dollar system.


Yeah I think unilateral sanctions aren't terribly effective with such a global economy. It would probably be more effective to reward good behavior vs trying to punish unilaterally.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#802 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:12 am

cammac wrote:
If an employee receives an interim security clearance, he or she is allowed by law to serve in positions designated “National Security/Non-Critical Sensitive” or “National Security/Critical Sensitive.” They cannot, however, be given a “Special Sensitive” job, which requires a different level of clearance: Top Secret/Special Compartmentalized Information—also known as TS/SCI or TS/CodeWord.

Only employees with TS/SCI or CodeWord clearance can see our government’s most important secrets. Typically, the staff secretary is one of those very few people. One of the most important.

The key word here is "typically". Do we know for sure whether or not Porter actually viewed TS/SCI information?

Also, are there allowances made early in an Administration after interim clearance is granted for personnel but before final clearance? It seems to me that it might be hard to run a country early in an Administration if clearances take that long to be granted.

I agree that this could be significant, but it might not be. We'll need a little more information before we start impeaching Trump.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#803 » by cammac » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:17 am

I was doing some reading this afternoon and I came across this quote:
“At the same time, the reverence and fear of Mao and communism had deadly consequences. In the Great Leap Forward, millions starved as a result of the combination of drought, political malfeasance and following stupid agricultural pseudoscience, and there were disincentives against speaking this truth to party leaders.”

In many ways it fits the modus operandi of Donald Trump and no he obviously isn't the absolute ruler that the Chairman was. But he has filled a cabinet with sniveling idiots who kowtow and praise his brilliance as the inspirational leader. Again it is not surprising since most are totally ill qualified for there positions and there only qualifications are the monies they have paid in tribute to the dear leader.

One of his few accomplishments was orchestrated by a person he loves to vilify in McConnell who gave him the Supreme Court Judge that the Party had longed for. A 16th Century fundamentalist who believed that the genius of the "Founding Fathers" is relevant today? But then it isn't surprising in that he wants to bring back the "Industrial Revolution" and power it with "King Coal". His selection of environmentalists poo poo science and health and safety. They rely on the science of denial and a Luddite perception of polluting the air and water. His minions are busy trying to eradicate the few social programs that are offered and offend his enablers in positions of power and commerce. He has pulled a cope with his callous manipulation of taxes giving the crumbs left over from the feast of the privileged to the masses below the salt. Plus giving them the erroneous task of there progeny to pay the bill.

Please do not irritate the leader or you will find he will select opponents to nullify you voice did you read my lips Senator Flake and Corker. Mind you it would be far neater if he could follow his hero Putin in his dealing with opposition by either incarcerating them or eliminating them. LOCK HER UP!

The State religion Fundamental Evangelism as propagated by the narrow, cruel, bigoted and non christian ministries. But then we are fortunate to be able to get our news from the State approved network Fox News. Where the bobbleheads and provocateurs praise the all knowing. Plus are 1st to correct us on the heathen doctrine of "Fake News" and blessed be our leader who is bringing us MAGA. The leader limits giving his brilliance and incite to the "FOX" and can't only heap his disgust on those who might question the enlightenment he brings forth.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#804 » by cammac » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:05 pm

President Obama had a $300 Billion infrastructure program called "Grow America" that died a still birth because of the Republican House & Senate. Today the Trumpster is unveiling his infrastructure plan of $1.5 Trillion wow.wow,wow isn't that great? Well NO it isn't the federal government is putting $200 Billion into the pot or 13.3333% and expecting the States & Municipalities to pick up the bulk of the commitment. What % could it really have been if loopholes for corporations and benefits for those 1% of welfare bums at the top of the pecking order had been eliminated.

In the 10years I lived in China I saw a boom of infrastructure projects from high speed trains connecting cities to huge increases in subways in major cities. In Shenzhen where I lived the subway system grew 8 times its original length to over 120 miles in a 5 year period and is still growing.

As with most things Trump more about buzz and publicity rather than reality!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#805 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:54 pm

Read this if you care whatsoever about the rule of law and how the process was abused in the FISA warrant process. This is the biggest scandal of our time. It is easily worse than Watergate. And Andrew McCarthy is no hack. He is a former U.S. Attorney. He was actually defending the Obama Administration when this scandal was first coming out.

Read on Twitter
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#806 » by montestewart » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:25 pm

nate33 wrote:Read this if you care whatsoever about the rule of law and how the process was abused in the FISA warrant process. This is the biggest scandal of our time. It is easily worse than Watergate. And Andrew McCarthy is no hack. He is a former U.S. Attorney. He was actually defending the Obama Administration when this scandal was first coming out.

Read on Twitter

He's been writing against Obama since his election. I was quickly able to find an article of his condemning Obama on this issue from March of last year, and it looks like he has been doing so the entire time. So when was he defending Obama?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#807 » by gtn130 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:26 pm

nate33 wrote:Read this if you care whatsoever about the rule of law and how the process was abused in the FISA warrant process. This is the biggest scandal of our time. It is easily worse than Watergate. And Andrew McCarthy is no hack. He is a former U.S. Attorney. He was actually defending the Obama Administration when this scandal was first coming out.


lmao. This piece is rife with hyperbole and inaccuracies - by design obviously, but the entire argument for this whole saga being BIGGER THAN WATERGATE is this:

Still, the FBI and Justice Department elected not to tell the FISA court that the Clinton campaign was paying for Steele’s unverified, unverifiable anti-Trump research.


1)

Read on Twitter


2)

The dossier being opposition research doesn't invalidate it or render it something the FBI shouldn't investigate. We've been over this. You've yet to come up with anything aside from Michael Cohen's passport that actually delegitimizes the research. If you want to see what's been corroborated, here is a decent link.

I did get a laugh at your bit about caring about the rule of law. Always in bad faith!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#808 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:31 pm

nate33 wrote:
cammac wrote:
If an employee receives an interim security clearance, he or she is allowed by law to serve in positions designated “National Security/Non-Critical Sensitive” or “National Security/Critical Sensitive.” They cannot, however, be given a “Special Sensitive” job, which requires a different level of clearance: Top Secret/Special Compartmentalized Information—also known as TS/SCI or TS/CodeWord.

Only employees with TS/SCI or CodeWord clearance can see our government’s most important secrets. Typically, the staff secretary is one of those very few people. One of the most important.

The key word here is "typically". Do we know for sure whether or not Porter actually viewed TS/SCI information?

Also, are there allowances made early in an Administration after interim clearance is granted for personnel but before final clearance? It seems to me that it might be hard to run a country early in an Administration if clearances take that long to be granted.

I agree that this could be significant, but it might not be. We'll need a little more information before we start impeaching Trump.


Wait, are you asking if the guy who handles every document that crosses the President’s desk viewed TS information? Seriously?????
Comparing Rose to Wall is like asking which is a more impressive cat: A cheetah or a wolf? Dude, Wall ain’t no damn cat!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#809 » by gtn130 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:43 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
nate33 wrote:
cammac wrote:

The key word here is "typically". Do we know for sure whether or not Porter actually viewed TS/SCI information?

Also, are there allowances made early in an Administration after interim clearance is granted for personnel but before final clearance? It seems to me that it might be hard to run a country early in an Administration if clearances take that long to be granted.

I agree that this could be significant, but it might not be. We'll need a little more information before we start impeaching Trump.


Wait, are you asking if the guy who handles every document that crosses the President’s desk viewed TS information? Seriously?????


He's merely giving Porter the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty.

That being said, Hillary built an email server in her basement to circumvent FOIA so she could do treasonous stuff without being detected.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#810 » by cammac » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:52 pm

Today "The Hill" had a interesting podcast on the Mueller Investigation about 5 different investigations that are taking place.
#1 Financial in that both Manafort and Gates have already been charged with financial and money laundering crimes and in all likelihood so has Trump & Kushner.
#2 Russian Hacking of Election the use of the social media through bots to send out the Russian propaganda aimed at creating discord during the election.
#3 The active cyber intrusions by the Russians with the hacking of the DNC and Podesta's e-mails. The weaponization of that information through Wiki Leaks.
#4 The Russian Campaign Contacts we know the players but it starts with the recruitment attempts by the saintly Carter Page back in 2013. Which now includes a list of indictments in Flynn & Papadopoulos and in other possible indictments including Kushner & Donald Junior. The Wall street Journal has identified at least 6 Russian officials that were actively involved plus the Dutch intelligence cyber infiltration of Cozy Bear.
#5 Charges also about Conspiracy against the USA part of Manafort indictment and Not registering as a Foreign Agent & Obstruction of Justice.
The podcast refers to Trump always putting out collusion which isn't a criminal charge in the USA but the charges above could be made to people in the administration or possibly Trump himself.
It is speculated that the investigation has done a excellent job in attaining information and part is that they are more than willing to have conversations with Trump.
http://thehill.com/podcasts/hillcast/373370-listen-five-threads-of-the-mueller-investigation
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#811 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:55 pm

I'm not even bothering to respond to memo stuff anymore. It's been so thoroughly debunked that to continue to discuss it just rebroadcasts alt right talking points to people too blinded by their partisanship, or too stupid, to be able to perceive the truth.

I'm still intriqued by the secession idea though. I did some math and if California, Oregon, Washington, New England, New York, and New Jersey secede, that's 34.7% of 2015 tax revenues, while only 29.2% of the population. Just to remind everyone, even though the Republicans spew forth the most hateful anti-social safety net vileness, they are in fact the ones most guilty of sucking at the public teat. I think it would be frankly hilarious to secede and kick off all the Republican parasite states.

Furthermore, we liberal pansies can pursue diplomatic solutions to global crises and leave Texas to fork over the money for military adventurism instead of making us pay for it. I think that might be the awesomest thing of all.
Comparing Rose to Wall is like asking which is a more impressive cat: A cheetah or a wolf? Dude, Wall ain’t no damn cat!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#812 » by cammac » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:56 pm

gtn130 wrote:
nate33 wrote:Read this if you care whatsoever about the rule of law and how the process was abused in the FISA warrant process. This is the biggest scandal of our time. It is easily worse than Watergate. And Andrew McCarthy is no hack. He is a former U.S. Attorney. He was actually defending the Obama Administration when this scandal was first coming out.


lmao. This piece is rife with hyperbole and inaccuracies - by design obviously, but the entire argument for this whole saga being BIGGER THAN WATERGATE is this:

Still, the FBI and Justice Department elected not to tell the FISA court that the Clinton campaign was paying for Steele’s unverified, unverifiable anti-Trump research.




Read on Twitter


2)

The dossier being opposition research doesn't invalidate it or render it something the FBI shouldn't investigate. We've been over this. You've yet to come up with anything aside from Michael Cohen's passport that actually delegitimizes the research. If you want to see what's been corroborated, here is a decent link.

I did get a laugh at your bit about caring about the rule of law. Always in bad faith!


As we know Manafort had 3 or more Passports!
Plus the EU doesn't stamp passports as you move through the countries only the initial entry point.
Could be in Paris one day Prague the next!!!!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#813 » by Pointgod » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:58 pm

cammac wrote:Today "The Hill" had a interesting podcast on the Mueller Investigation about 5 different investigations that are taking place.
#1 Financial in that both Manafort and Gates have already been charged with financial and money laundering crimes and in all likelihood so has Trump & Kushner.
#2 Russian Hacking of Election the use of the social media through bots to send out the Russian propaganda aimed at creating discord during the election.
#3 The active cyber intrusions by the Russians with the hacking of the DNC and Podesta's e-mails. The weaponization of that information through Wiki Leaks.
#4 The Russian Campaign Contacts we know the players but it starts with the recruitment attempts by the saintly Carter Page back in 2013. Which now includes a list of indictments in Flynn & Papadopoulos and in other possible indictments including Kushner & Donald Junior. The Wall street Journal has identified at least 6 Russian officials that were actively involved plus the Dutch intelligence cyber infiltration of Cozy Bear.
#5 Charges also about Conspiracy against the USA part of Manafort indictment and Not registering as a Foreign Agent & Obstruction of Justice.
The podcast refers to Trump always putting out collusion which isn't a criminal charge in the USA but the charges above could be made to people in the administration or possibly Trump himself.
It is speculated that the investigation has done a excellent job in attaining information and part is that they are more than willing to have conversations with Trump.
http://thehill.com/podcasts/hillcast/373370-listen-five-threads-of-the-mueller-investigation


Get that Liberal commie publication out of......oh it's the Hill.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#814 » by FAH1223 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:10 pm

Pointgod wrote:
cammac wrote:Today "The Hill" had a interesting podcast on the Mueller Investigation about 5 different investigations that are taking place.
#1 Financial in that both Manafort and Gates have already been charged with financial and money laundering crimes and in all likelihood so has Trump & Kushner.
#2 Russian Hacking of Election the use of the social media through bots to send out the Russian propaganda aimed at creating discord during the election.
#3 The active cyber intrusions by the Russians with the hacking of the DNC and Podesta's e-mails. The weaponization of that information through Wiki Leaks.
#4 The Russian Campaign Contacts we know the players but it starts with the recruitment attempts by the saintly Carter Page back in 2013. Which now includes a list of indictments in Flynn & Papadopoulos and in other possible indictments including Kushner & Donald Junior. The Wall street Journal has identified at least 6 Russian officials that were actively involved plus the Dutch intelligence cyber infiltration of Cozy Bear.
#5 Charges also about Conspiracy against the USA part of Manafort indictment and Not registering as a Foreign Agent & Obstruction of Justice.
The podcast refers to Trump always putting out collusion which isn't a criminal charge in the USA but the charges above could be made to people in the administration or possibly Trump himself.
It is speculated that the investigation has done a excellent job in attaining information and part is that they are more than willing to have conversations with Trump.
http://thehill.com/podcasts/hillcast/373370-listen-five-threads-of-the-mueller-investigation


Get that Liberal commie publication out of......oh it's the Hill.


I think the money laundering stuff is where the meat of the investigation is going to go. There's no secret Trump Tower was a bed for folks in the Russian mob to park their cash.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#815 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:20 pm

Isn’t the mob kinda legal in Russia? How is that money laundering? They don’t sell drugs, they just run the place.
Comparing Rose to Wall is like asking which is a more impressive cat: A cheetah or a wolf? Dude, Wall ain’t no damn cat!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#816 » by closg00 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:23 pm

cammac wrote:Today "The Hill" had a interesting podcast on the Mueller Investigation about 5 different investigations that are taking place.
#1 Financial in that both Manafort and Gates have already been charged with financial and money laundering crimes and in all likelihood so has Trump & Kushner.
#2 Russian Hacking of Election the use of the social media through bots to send out the Russian propaganda aimed at creating discord during the election.
#3 The active cyber intrusions by the Russians with the hacking of the DNC and Podesta's e-mails. The weaponization of that information through Wiki Leaks.
#4 The Russian Campaign Contacts we know the players but it starts with the recruitment attempts by the saintly Carter Page back in 2013. Which now includes a list of indictments in Flynn & Papadopoulos and in other possible indictments including Kushner & Donald Junior. The Wall street Journal has identified at least 6 Russian officials that were actively involved plus the Dutch intelligence cyber infiltration of Cozy Bear.
#5 Charges also about Conspiracy against the USA part of Manafort indictment and Not registering as a Foreign Agent & Obstruction of Justice.
The podcast refers to Trump always putting out collusion which isn't a criminal charge in the USA but the charges above could be made to people in the administration or possibly Trump himself.
It is speculated that the investigation has done a excellent job in attaining information and part is that they are more than willing to have conversations with Trump.
http://thehill.com/podcasts/hillcast/373370-listen-five-threads-of-the-mueller-investigation


Thank you for this, will listen at work.

I was re-watching an old Rachel Maddow show about how the FBI had a Russian hacker arrested in Spain, the guy had made millions creating bots etc for Putin and he is tied to the Trump election effort, they have had this guy wrapped-up for 9-10 months.

Mueller and his investigators know much much more about Russian/Trump treason than has been made public obviously. Trump and his supporters on the Hill know this as-well and they are acting like desperate caged-animals, this would explain the very desperate attempts to discredit the investigation while creating this alternate narrative about poor poor Carter Page, the modern day civil rights hero. They are literally grasping at all straws as they try to kill the investigation. If Mueller goes for the head of the snake, Trump won’t be able to pardon his people. Their propaganda effort is also about laying the groundwork for pardons IF Trumpnis able.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#817 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:59 pm

For the record, I think criticizing the FBI is totally fine. I think they're wrong in this instance but on the other hand it's incredibly healthy for the conservative side of the equation to take a close look at the FBI. If this whole episode results in taking power away from the FBI in a way that protects both sides from Patriot Act surveillance I regard that as a win.
Comparing Rose to Wall is like asking which is a more impressive cat: A cheetah or a wolf? Dude, Wall ain’t no damn cat!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#818 » by cammac » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:14 pm

Highly recommend reading this article!
I know I'm ordering his book!
Its simple and straight forward on "Climate Change".
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/5/10/15589038/top-100-solutions-climate-change-ranked
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Re: RE: Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#819 » by JWizmentality » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:16 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:For the record, I think criticizing the FBI is totally fine. I think they're wrong in this instance but on the other hand it's incredibly healthy for the conservative side of the equation to take a close look at the FBI. If this whole episode results in taking power away from the FBI in a way that protects both sides from Patriot Act surveillance I regard that as a win.

Get a hold of yourself. We're talking about conservatives here. Lol. They want to burn it to the ground.


But I agree. I'm done discussing this nonsense with the conservatives on this board. SD20 is a lunatic, and Nate just regurgitates FoxNews now. Blah Deep State, blah bigger than Watergate. Couple days ago it was Blumenthal, but they've abandoned that nonsense. Me thinks they'll bring up Seth Rich again. All in days work for State TV.

Ill just sit back and wait to see all that Mueller exposes.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XVIII 

Post#820 » by nate33 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:18 pm

montestewart wrote:
nate33 wrote:Read this if you care whatsoever about the rule of law and how the process was abused in the FISA warrant process. This is the biggest scandal of our time. It is easily worse than Watergate. And Andrew McCarthy is no hack. He is a former U.S. Attorney. He was actually defending the Obama Administration when this scandal was first coming out.

Read on Twitter

He's been writing against Obama since his election. I was quickly able to find an article of his condemning Obama on this issue from March of last year, and it looks like he has been doing so the entire time. So when was he defending Obama?

He's certainly a conservative. He writes for National Review, after all. But he defended the Obama Administration's conduct of the Russia investigation at first.

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