This team desperately needs a third scorer ...

Gig18 · Post #1 » by **Gig18** » Tue May 1, 2018 7:43 pm

I know that it's popular here to suggest we need a talented big --- in fact, Wall himself said that in his exit interviews.
But I've been following this team for decades, just like a lot of you guys. And this team is screaming for a legitimate third scorer.
Someone they can turn to to get buckets other than Wall or Beal. We were totally sucking wind when Beal's game declined at season's end.
I think Ernie hoped that Porter would be that guy, but while he's had moment, he still has shown no inclination to "get his." And that's what hoops is about. I think Ernie tried to shore the scoring up with Mike Scott and Jodie Meeks. Scott was good in his role, Meeks never got untracked. Go back and look at the games we win. We win when we have another scorer.
Don't know how they get it, but that's the deal. We're never --- NO ONE --- is going to have enough defense in this modern spread the court shooting age to counteract good O.

Post #2 » by **Ruzious** » Tue May 1, 2018 9:17 pm

Yeah, just like OKC needed Melo as a 3rd scorer. That worked out fine. Oh wait, it didn't. We need more talent; and I'd be fine if that added talent is better defensively rather than just a scorer. Ultimately, you win with 2-way players, since there is no offensive and defensive platooning. Golden State is outstanding defensively as well as offensively. Boston's success this season has been from its defense as much as its offense.

Gig18 · Post #3 » by **Gig18** » Tue May 1, 2018 9:59 pm

Defense is want-to and schemes. You can teach a good offensive player to play defense. You can't really teach guys with no scoring ability, or low-scoring ability, to be your third scorer.
You can pull up an example like Melo; I get it. But this team needs another scorer. Look at how many of you on this board complain about Wall taking too many shots. Half the time it's because he has to shoot.

Post #4 » by **Ruzious** » Tue May 1, 2018 10:48 pm

Gig18 wrote:Defense is want-to and schemes. You can teach a good offensive player to play defense. You can't really teach guys with no scoring ability, or low-scoring ability, to be your third scorer.
You can pull up an example like Melo; I get it. But this team needs another scorer. Look at how many of you on this board complain about Wall taking too many shots. Half the time it's because he has to shoot.

I do NOT buy that. He walked the ball up and dribbled around doing nothing far too much this season. Part of it was because he was playing hurt, but still... Porter has to be utilized a lot more next season. Part of that's on him, but more is on the team - including coaching. Same - to a lesser extent - with Sato. But defense has a long ways to go - yes, coaching should be better, but there isn't any above average interior defender on the team. We don't even have a guy like Aaron Baynes - who's actually been very effective defensively, and we don't have a half-court technician like Horford. And we don't have a defender like Jaylen Brown - he's who we wish Oubre would be. And Rozier and Smart... they're excellent individual defenders.

CobraCommander · Post #5 » by **CobraCommander** » Tue May 1, 2018 11:07 pm

Long D and 3 guys...Guys that play defense and make open shots...like Ariza.

A coach that can control and truly coach Wall and Beal...wall and beal are just free styling on talent...someone that will sit Wall and Beal and teaches them how to win...that aint Brooks.

a new center that can finish at the basket and defend the rim when Wall and Beal get beat to the rim...

Over the 3rd scorer...

dangermouse · Post #6 » by **dangermouse** » Tue May 1, 2018 11:22 pm

Upgrade at C is just such a painfully obvious need.

If we lose Mike Scott, yes, we are gonna need another guaranteed-buckets guy off the bench.

What I'd like to see is Oubre becoming that guy. I think what would also help this team tremendously is if Otto comes back more aggressive, who looks to score more and maybe works on a few step back shots/dribble moves to get himself into his spots so he doesnt have to rely on Wall's setups or Beal's setups. Some set up plays to get Porter in the mid post against smaller guys would also help him. He's money from that free-throw line/middle mid range area, we need to take advantage of that more often. 14ppg, I think he can raise it to ~17 without sacrificing efficiency.

If we get this playoffs version of Wall for like 70 games, as well as progression from Porter and Beal, I think we'll still be in the mix of the 5 or 6th seed. Only an upgrade at C will get us higher.

verbal8 · Post #7 » by **verbal8** » Wed May 2, 2018 12:05 am

I think featuring Porter more in the play calling solves the 3rd scorer issue.

The big need is depth and I think getting a new GM is the only way that happens. If Oubre breaks out the top line talent is near the top of the East. The problem is Sato and the near corpse of Gortat are the only other productive players.

Gig18 · Post #8 » by **Gig18** » Wed May 2, 2018 1:49 am

I don't know. I love Porter. But he just doesn't have the "gimme the ball" attitude that makes for a consistent scorer. He just disappears as a shooter.

Dat2U · Post #9 » by **Dat2U** » Wed May 2, 2018 2:17 am

Get Otto consistently involved, that's our 3rd scorer.

Ixnay the mid-range jumpers, except for Otto. Modernize the offense shoot more threes. Goal should be to shoot 1,500 3s next year b/w Beal & Porter. Wall to shoot 500 3s.

Wall wants another scoring threat on the ball. I understand why, it would really take some pressure off of him but to quickest way to turn things around is to refocus defensively and of course find some athletic guys upfront that can guard the perimeter.

WallToWall · Post #10 » by **WallToWall** » Wed May 2, 2018 2:23 am

3rd scorer? We need a 1st scorer. We got a bunch of 2nd and 3rd scorers already....thats covered.

dangermouse · Post #11 » by **dangermouse** » Wed May 2, 2018 4:11 am

Gig18 wrote:I don't know. I love Porter. But he just doesn't have the "gimme the ball" attitude that makes for a consistent scorer. He just disappears as a shooter.

He is a bit too passive. But, I think the right coach can change that. Someone needs to highlight just how unstoppable he can be from mid range. It'll click.

Post #12 » by **montestewart** » Wed May 2, 2018 4:41 am

What I'd like to know is why Gig18 signed up in 2012 and just got around to his second post this afternoon. The we can figure out this 3rd scorer business.

BigA · Post #13 » by **BigA** » Wed May 2, 2018 11:58 am

montestewart wrote:What I'd like to know is why Gig18 signed up in 2012 and just got around to his second post this afternoon. The we can figure out this 3rd scorer business.

The 3rd scorer has been eating him up inside for 6 years.

Sluggerface · Post #14 » by **Sluggerface** » Wed May 2, 2018 12:04 pm

We need an MVP level player.
We need a center that gives us rim protection and can guard out to the 3 point line in today's modern game.
We need an athletic four with a better 3 point shot.
We need backup wings that can consistently shoot.

We need all of these things and we're the 5th highest in payroll.

Post #15 » by **nate33** » Wed May 2, 2018 1:24 pm

Who is Toronto's third scorer? Who is Houston's? Who is Cleveland's? Boston's?

Our third scorer, Porter, is better than what those other teams have. Third scorer is not the problem.

FAH1223 · Post #16 » by **FAH1223** » Wed May 2, 2018 1:38 pm

Scoring isn't the issue. The issue is how this team goes about doing it. Ball movement vs. ISO.

dckingsfan · Post #17 » by **dckingsfan** » Wed May 2, 2018 2:29 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Scoring isn't the issue. The issue is how this team goes about doing it. Ball movement vs. ISO.

Cosign - how many assists did we have against Toronto in that last game. There was a short period of time where the team was averaging near to 30 assists per game.

Then the ball stopped moving.

FAH1223 · Post #18 » by **FAH1223** » Wed May 2, 2018 3:07 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Scoring isn't the issue. The issue is how this team goes about doing it. Ball movement vs. ISO.

Cosign - how many assists did we have against Toronto in that last game. There was a short period of time where the team was averaging near to 30 assists per game.

Then the ball stopped moving.

Yup. And for most of the season the team was averaging in that mid 20s range in assists.

Passes per game is also another stat that demonstrates the style of play. During that February stretch, they were passing the rock close to or over 300 times per game. Only the Warriors were playing that way.

Gig18 · Post #19 » by **Gig18** » Wed May 2, 2018 4:24 pm

montestewart wrote:What I'd like to know is why Gig18 signed up in 2012 and just got around to his second post this afternoon. The we can figure out this 3rd scorer business.

Pickin my spots ...

Sluggerface · Post #20 » by **Sluggerface** » Wed May 2, 2018 5:37 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Scoring isn't the issue. The issue is how this team goes about doing it. Ball movement vs. ISO.

I disagree. Ball movement doesn't necessarily correlate to better offense. Miami never moved the ball well during the big 3 era and it worked out for them (they averaged as many assists back then as they do now), as has been the case for countless teams with high level players (Even the spurs back in the day). The entire league as a whole still relies on ISO significantly more than any league in the world.

I don't see how this roster benefits from it. Satoransky isn't the kind of guy who is going to start letting it fly. Oubre can only stroke it when his confidence is high, and outside of straight line drives, doesn't bring much else to the table. He was a complete dumpster fire after the all-star break. None of our bigs can adequately put the ball on the floor and drive. If you're going to run an egalitarian style, you need these things. You need a guy like Danny Green or a Fred VanVleet who can do multiple things at an above average level and actually take advantage of working in an unpredictable offense that generates opportunities like that. We don't have that. We just have complimentary players around Wall, which is Ernie's mo. It's actually crazy how uncanny it's been, some guys produced a paper at Sloan a couple of years back during the Wittman era that pegged us as having the most "complementary" roster in the league at the time.

I know a lot of people want to talk about 4th quarter production, but that's an issue for multiple teams that run very different styles. Philly runs a spursian system and only managed an offensive rating of 102 in 4th quarters during the regular season. There's too much variance there at the end of games.

To me the bigger issue is the defense. I don't see this team dropping below top 10 in offensive efficiency when healthy, but I don't see how they be anything more than a mediocre defense without adequate frontcourt help.