Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[BigA]

I'm the most pessimistic of the posters who've made predictions, but I'd caution about over reacting to these first 5 games.

Maybe if I thought they were going to win 50+ games I'd be losing it, but we've seen them have slow starts and stretches of bad play from Wall, Beal, etc. before.

If I thought they were going to win 44-45 games two weeks ago I wouldn't be freaking out just based on the first 5 games.

[Dat2U]

I'm the most pessimistic of the posters who've made predictions, but I'd caution about over reacting to these first 5 games.

Maybe if I thought they were going to win 50+ games I'd be losing it, but we've seen them have slow starts and stretches of bad play from Wall, Beal, etc. before.

If I thought they were going to win 44-45 games two weeks ago I wouldn't be freaking out just based on the first 5 games.

True and they did start 2-8 in their 49 win season so your exactly right, this start is nothing new for this group.

[payitforward]

No.

?
I would, in principle, but with a slight change. Your deal only drops our salary by $7m, meaning it leaves us still over the tax. Since you don't have a tax problem, & given that your FO hasn't yet guaranteed T.J. McConnell, I'd want him instead of Bayless.

I say "in principle" b/c this would leave us with 16 players. So we'd need another team to take either Fultz or Saric & give us a pick not a player.

You obviously make out in this trade, in that Beal is better than Fultz, Saric, Smith or McConnell. OTOH, you have a little problem in that you would need to add a couple of players.

What's good about the trade for us is that it will be extremely hard to retain all 3 of Wall/Beal/Porter & still have any flexibility to make any moves -- which I'd say it's obvious that we need to do!

But, I might be the only poster here who would be interested in this deal -- &, as I say, it would have to be McConnell not Bayless.

I never quite understood the fascination with McConnell. A capable backup but that's just it. And there are plenty of those despite Ernie's incompetence in finding them.

I also have a very low opinion of Fultz and the idea of adding a guard with a shaky jumper and shaky mental makeup just isn't appealing to me.

It's not "fascination" w/ McConnell -- even if we disagree about how good he is, he's obviously a bargain at $1.6m. In this trade, however, his big value is that w/ him instead of Bayless we get under the tax.

I also don't like Fultz (or Saric for that matter -- at least not much). But, he was the #1 pick in the draft, & for that reason I make the assumption (maybe wrong?) that we could trade him for an unprotected mid-R1 pick, which would be what I'd want to do next, ASAP.

In that case, the trade would amount to sending out Brad in return for:

* Miami's 2021 R1 pick (which has a good shot to be a relatively high lottery pick)
* An unprotected mid-R1 pick, which we'd get by trading Fultz
* A third pick (say a lower R1 -- for Saric from the 3d team in the deal)
* Zhaire Smith
* T.J. McConnell

That's a lot. & if we had a good GM who made this trade, I would expect us to be as good as Boston in a few years.

But, we don't. We have Ernie. So, my 2 main reasons for this trade are:

a) I just don't think we can retain all 3 of our max/super-max players, stay out of the tax, & still field a good team; and
b) I feel pretty certain that Ernie will get rid of either Beal or Porter & get a lot less than this in return.

In fact, I would not be surprised to see Porter go (e.g. opting out after next season) & we wind up getting nothing in return.

I could be wrong about a lot or a little of this, who knows? But, I would roll with it.

[payitforward]

I'm the most pessimistic of the posters who've made predictions, but I'd caution about over reacting to these first 5 games.

Maybe if I thought they were going to win 50+ games I'd be losing it, but we've seen them have slow starts and stretches of bad play from Wall, Beal, etc. before.

If I thought they were going to win 44-45 games two weeks ago I wouldn't be freaking out just based on the first 5 games.

True and they did start 2-8 in their 49 win season so your exactly right, this start is nothing new for this group.

The Wizards started 2014-15 by going 19-6. Since then, with the exception of one 21-3 run, the Washington Wizards record is...

Spoiler:

140 - 144.

[WallToWall]

I'm the most pessimistic of the posters who've made predictions, but I'd caution about over reacting to these first 5 games.

Maybe if I thought they were going to win 50+ games I'd be losing it, but we've seen them have slow starts and stretches of bad play from Wall, Beal, etc. before.

If I thought they were going to win 44-45 games two weeks ago I wouldn't be freaking out just based on the first 5 games.

True and they did start 2-8 in their 49 win season so your exactly right, this start is nothing new for this group.

The Wizards started 2014-15 by going 19-6. Since then, with the exception of one 21-3 run, the Washington Wizards record is...

Spoiler:

140 - 144.

To me, tis more than that. At this point in time, with Wall's window closing, we should have a championship contender. We dont have that. This set of parts is not greater than the sum. Meaning, they will not be contending for anything. We should be looking at trading some assets for picks, so that we can start a new rebuild. Wall should be shipped out for as many picks as we can get. Unfortunately, thats probably all we can part with. Porter, Beal, and Oubre are still on the young side and their window is still large.

[Dat2U]

?
I would, in principle, but with a slight change. Your deal only drops our salary by $7m, meaning it leaves us still over the tax. Since you don't have a tax problem, & given that your FO hasn't yet guaranteed T.J. McConnell, I'd want him instead of Bayless.

I say "in principle" b/c this would leave us with 16 players. So we'd need another team to take either Fultz or Saric & give us a pick not a player.

You obviously make out in this trade, in that Beal is better than Fultz, Saric, Smith or McConnell. OTOH, you have a little problem in that you would need to add a couple of players.

What's good about the trade for us is that it will be extremely hard to retain all 3 of Wall/Beal/Porter & still have any flexibility to make any moves -- which I'd say it's obvious that we need to do!

But, I might be the only poster here who would be interested in this deal -- &, as I say, it would have to be McConnell not Bayless.

I never quite understood the fascination with McConnell. A capable backup but that's just it. And there are plenty of those despite Ernie's incompetence in finding them.

I also have a very low opinion of Fultz and the idea of adding a guard with a shaky jumper and shaky mental makeup just isn't appealing to me.

It's not "fascination" w/ McConnell -- even if we disagree about how good he is, he's obviously a bargain at $1.6m. In this trade, however, his big value is that w/ him instead of Bayless we get under the tax.

I also don't like Fultz (or Saric for that matter -- at least not much). But, he was the #1 pick in the draft, & for that reason I make the assumption (maybe wrong?) that we could trade him for an unprotected mid-R1 pick, which would be what I'd want to do next, ASAP.

In that case, the trade would amount to sending out Brad in return for:

* Miami's 2021 R1 pick (which has a good shot to be a relatively high lottery pick)
* An unprotected mid-R1 pick, which we'd get by trading Fultz
* A third pick (say a lower R1 -- for Saric from the 3d team in the deal)
* Zhaire Smith
* T.J. McConnell

That's a lot. & if we had a good GM who made this trade, I would expect us to be as good as Boston in a few years.

But, we don't. We have Ernie. So, my 2 main reasons for this trade are:

a) I just don't think we can retain all 3 of our max/super-max players, stay out of the tax, & still field a good team; and
b) I feel pretty certain that Ernie will get rid of either Beal or Porter & get a lot less than this in return.

In fact, I would not be surprised to see Porter go (e.g. opting out after next season) & we wind up getting nothing in return.

I could be wrong about a lot or a little of this, who knows? But, I would roll with it.

I don't think Fultz has that type of value. His major skill coming into the draft was his shot making ability. He's "lost" that ability for whatever reason. He wasn't drafted #1 for his passing ability or defense. If he can't shoot, he's going to have trouble finding a role on a good team.

Saric is probably worth a little more than you suggest. I also think hes probably better suited at C than PF.

I preferably want a blue chipper for Beal not a bunch of okay assets. The Miami pick is interesting but as long as Riley is GM I think the best hope for that pick is late lottery.

[payitforward]

I never quite understood the fascination with McConnell. A capable backup but that's just it. And there are plenty of those despite Ernie's incompetence in finding them.

I also have a very low opinion of Fultz and the idea of adding a guard with a shaky jumper and shaky mental makeup just isn't appealing to me.

It's not "fascination" w/ McConnell -- even if we disagree about how good he is, he's obviously a bargain at $1.6m. In this trade, however, his big value is that w/ him instead of Bayless we get under the tax.

I also don't like Fultz (or Saric for that matter -- at least not much). But, he was the #1 pick in the draft, & for that reason I make the assumption (maybe wrong?) that we could trade him for an unprotected mid-R1 pick, which would be what I'd want to do next, ASAP.

In that case, the trade would amount to sending out Brad in return for:

* Miami's 2021 R1 pick (which has a good shot to be a relatively high lottery pick)
* An unprotected mid-R1 pick, which we'd get by trading Fultz
* A third pick (say a lower R1 -- for Saric from the 3d team in the deal)
* Zhaire Smith
* T.J. McConnell

That's a lot. & if we had a good GM who made this trade, I would expect us to be as good as Boston in a few years.

But, we don't. We have Ernie. So, my 2 main reasons for this trade are:

a) I just don't think we can retain all 3 of our max/super-max players, stay out of the tax, & still field a good team; and
b) I feel pretty certain that Ernie will get rid of either Beal or Porter & get a lot less than this in return.

In fact, I would not be surprised to see Porter go (e.g. opting out after next season) & we wind up getting nothing in return.

I could be wrong about a lot or a little of this, who knows? But, I would roll with it.

I don't think Fultz has that type of value. His major skill coming into the draft was his shot making ability. He's "lost" that ability for whatever reason. He wasn't drafted #1 for his passing ability or defense. If he can't shoot, he's going to have trouble finding a role on a good team.

Saric is probably worth a little more than you suggest. I also think he's probably better suited at C than PF.

I preferably want a blue chipper for Beal not a bunch of okay assets. The Miami pick is interesting but as long as Riley is GM I think the best hope for that pick is late lottery.

You may well be right about Fultz. But it is really hard to imagine that a guy picked #1 in the draft wouldn't find someone who wants to roll the dice on him with a mid-R1 pick 16 months later.

You may be right about Miami & Riley as well -- then again, they are paying $130m this year for a pretty lousy team, & it was Riley who made every one of the decisions that got them where they are.

Again, a trade like this only makes sense if we have a good GM. & if Ernie trades Beal for "a blue chipper," you can count on it being chipped!

[Kerrsed]

I think the more the Suns and Wizards lose, the more likely we become trade partners. While many many many people/teams/GM's/Owners are put off by Wall's contract (Let's admit, thats an INSANE amount of money to be paying him), there is no denying what he can do on the court. Suns are in desperation mode to get a starting PG, and a good enough one to turn this team around before we lose Booker. While our FO may have balked at Walls contract and the price it would probably take to get him, our owner Robert Sarver isnt known for his patience. When McD was our GM, he made a hard push to trade for Kemba Walker, but wasnt willing to pay what the Hornets were asking, specially since he will be a FA after the season.

Now i could see us offering much more for Wall than what we were willing to pay for Kemba. Even though its a crazy expensive contract, Wall is locked in for 5 years, so no worrying that he would just bail on us. Wall is also the better player between him and Kemba.

So what would it take to get Wall from you guys. If its our 1st round pick, i'd ask for top 3 protection, but could also maybe be ok with making it unprotected if need be. We have a ton of super young talent on our team as it is, the last thing we need to do is add another 19 year old to the likes of Ayton/Jackson/Bridges/Okobo/Melton/Bender/Booker. So yeah, trading our 1st is fine by me, but what players would the Wiz be looking for? Pretty much anyone not named Ayton/Booker/Bridges/Okobo should be on the table.

[BigA]

I think the more the Suns and Wizards lose, the more likely we become trade partners. While many many many people/teams/GM's/Owners are put off by Wall's contract (Let's admit, thats an INSANE amount of money to be paying him), there is no denying what he can do on the court. Suns are in desperation mode to get a starting PG, and a good enough one to turn this team around before we lose Booker. While our FO may have balked at Walls contract and the price it would probably take to get him, our owner Robert Sarver isnt known for his patience. When McD was our GM, he made a hard push to trade for Kemba Walker, but wasnt willing to pay what the Hornets were asking, specially since he will be a FA after the season.

Now i could see us offering much more for Wall than what we were willing to pay for Kemba. Even though its a crazy expensive contract, Wall is locked in for 5 years, so no worrying that he would just bail on us. Wall is also the better player between him and Kemba.

So what would it take to get Wall from you guys. If its our 1st round pick, i'd ask for top 3 protection, but could also maybe be ok with making it unprotected if need be. We have a ton of super young talent on our team as it is, the last thing we need to do is add another 19 year old to the likes of Ayton/Jackson/Bridges/Okobo/Melton/Bender/Booker. So yeah, trading our 1st is fine by me, but what players would the Wiz be looking for? Pretty much anyone not named Ayton/Booker/Bridges/Okobo should be on the table.

This would be a get out of jail card for the Wizards, but it would require firing the GM, which is why it won't happen. If it was me, today, I'd trade Wall for expiring contracts.

[Kerrsed]

This would be a get out of jail card for the Wizards, but it would require firing the GM, which is why it won't happen. If it was me, today, I'd trade Wall for expiring contracts.

Chandler/Bender/Suns 1st?

[BigA]

This would be a get out of jail card for the Wizards, but it would require firing the GM, which is why it won't happen. If it was me, today, I'd trade Wall for expiring contracts.

Chandler/Bender/Suns 1st?

Sure, I'd do it but the Wizards won't.

[FAH1223]

This would be a get out of jail card for the Wizards, but it would require firing the GM, which is why it won't happen. If it was me, today, I'd trade Wall for expiring contracts.

Chandler/Bender/Suns 1st?

We'd need probably 2 1st round picks and Okobo in the package.

Wizards have no PG besides Satoransky on the roster.

John Wall is an All-NBA talent. He's not the defender he was in 2013, 2014, and 2015 but he still has glimpses of those days.

I'm not trading him for trash expirings. His contract is huge but he's locked into it and the salary cap and luxury tax lines are going to be increasing the next 2 summers.

[WallToWall]

I think the more the Suns and Wizards lose, the more likely we become trade partners. While many many many people/teams/GM's/Owners are put off by Wall's contract (Let's admit, thats an INSANE amount of money to be paying him), there is no denying what he can do on the court. Suns are in desperation mode to get a starting PG, and a good enough one to turn this team around before we lose Booker. While our FO may have balked at Walls contract and the price it would probably take to get him, our owner Robert Sarver isnt known for his patience. When McD was our GM, he made a hard push to trade for Kemba Walker, but wasnt willing to pay what the Hornets were asking, specially since he will be a FA after the season.

Now i could see us offering much more for Wall than what we were willing to pay for Kemba. Even though its a crazy expensive contract, Wall is locked in for 5 years, so no worrying that he would just bail on us. Wall is also the better player between him and Kemba.

So what would it take to get Wall from you guys. If its our 1st round pick, i'd ask for top 3 protection, but could also maybe be ok with making it unprotected if need be. We have a ton of super young talent on our team as it is, the last thing we need to do is add another 19 year old to the likes of Ayton/Jackson/Bridges/Okobo/Melton/Bender/Booker. So yeah, trading our 1st is fine by me, but what players would the Wiz be looking for? Pretty much anyone not named Ayton/Booker/Bridges/Okobo should be on the table.

It would probably take a young good player AND a protected top 3 pick. That said, it will not happen because our GM will not pull the trigger. And our GM is going nowhere; he has a job for life. 74.3% of Wizards fans think that's because our GM has dirty pics of the owner, so the owner will never fire the GM. The remaining 25.7% of the Wizards fan base know it to be true.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The Wizards should make everyone on the roster available except for Beal. He annoys me the least on the roster. Everyone else is expendable.

The Wizards should make everyone on the roster available except for Beal. He annoys me the least on the roster. Everyone else is expendable.

This is where I'm at. The problem is in the case of a rebuild scenario, we're far enough away from being good that there's no reason to even keep Brad when you consider what he can bring back in a trade. Because he'll be 26 this summer, the prime of his career on a very reasonable contract. If the Wiz keep him as the only man left standing, he'll be 30 by the time we reach the playoffs again. There's really no point.

John would be very solid in Phoenix with the weapons there. I'd be set on seeing if I could make a deal with them. They don't have anyone to pay anytime soon but Booker, so his contract wouldn't be too bothersome. By the time Ayton is up for renewal, John's contract will be done or close enough to it. I think it's the best fit for a trade.

Mirotic and Ingles are making the Otto contract look regrettable. Otto fits on any team, but his salary doesn't. Nobody wants to pay 3 and D wings a max these days. I'm going to be very interested to see what Mirotic gets this off-season. Current numbers are unsustainable, but he's very good.

Agreed. John Wall to Phoenix is an idea that pops.

Beal is solid. Grounded. He's not responsible for this situation. Yet, I think lots of rookie deal players are about as good or better than Bradley.

I'd keep Beal and Porter. I'd trade Wall and the dead weight. Mahinmi and Smith need to be traded the day after Ernie Grunfeld is let go. That would be TODAY if I were owning the team.

Tomorrow (after firing EG; thus, making Brooks a lame duck coach), I'd announce that the Wizards are going to be blown up ASAP.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think you don't get a true indication of where a team is at till the 20 game mark. If we based decisions after 4 games into the regular season, Orlando was a legit contender last year.

I especially wouldn't draw any conclusions from Curry going off on us. Getting drubbed on the road by arguably the GOAT and the GOAT team would have the remaining 29 teams in the league feeling like they need to start rebuilding.

Time

Iiiitttsss Tiiiime!

Draw conclusions about the Wizards

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Shocking that people want a firesale after a 1-3 start that includes losing to arguably the greatest team of all time. And half the fans probably didn't stay up to watch any of these games. As somebody else said, let's see what happens when Howard gets in the lineup. Even if he's half the player he once was, when was the last time we had a big man of that ability. Elvin Hayes? Moses at the end?

Rivers looks like he has no clue what to do out there. Penetrate. Feed everybody else. He sucks right now and he may suck the rest of the way but I know he's a capable 3-point shooter who lost confidence since the preseason (did make 2 late ones last night). Seems like he's trying to fit in but Brooks has also put too much pressure on him by forcing him to play starters minutes when he's barely playing like a rotation player. Until he gets the shot back, Sato (who hasn't played that great either), should be playing more minutes because he's going to at least play decent defense. You never know what you're going to get with Jeff Green. No wonder he's been an enigma on so many teams but I like his handle and his defense.

On one hand, we do miss Mike Scott's 3-point shooting but not his lack of D. The one thing we've seen on this trip is Oubre coming alive on offense. When he plays with Wall, his game comes alive. I have no clue why Brooks started Jason Smith and not Oubre against Golden State. It makes zero sense. If he continues to play well, Oubre is the guy that needs to get those clutch minutes, not Rivers.

We're 1-3 but all is not lost. Not against making another deal to get a 3-point shooter to help the bench.

1-5

I'm not sure whether Howard is out for however long.

REALITY IS THE TEAM IS ONLY 2.5 GAMES BEHIND 3-2, DIVISION LEADING MIAMI

3-2 Heat
1-5 Wizards (minus their anchor, triple entendre intended) Dwight Howard

Say the Heat wins next game. Then the team is (only) three games back after (just) six games played.

Washington is 49 wins away from a 50-win mandate.

49-27 is the readjustment to the mapquest or whatever you navigate through the season with.

STAY THE COURSE is one outlook...



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

But, if you ask me the Wizards are fatally flawed.

Brooks is a bad bad coach.

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[Ruzious]

Rox offering 4 1st rounders for Jimmy.

Surely they would rather send him across the map instead of to a conference rival? Plus they owe us for the 5th pick that one time.

Two firsts, Oubre, Rivers and Smith. Just go all in now.

2 firsts? Why do you hate the Wizards? Actually, I don't mind so much trading the 2019 first, but trading any future 1sts could turn out to be a Monumental (pun intended) mistake. And even if we get Butler, we'd still be behind Boston and Toronto and probably still behind Milwaukee and Philly - given the combo of talent and coaching - we're surrounded by better coaches. Getting a 1 year rental of Butler is defnitely not worth mortgaging the future.

Houston's offer of 4 picks is probably a couple of late 1sts with some protections on the picks in the later years. Alot depends what Houston is sending salary wise in return. If they want the Wolves to take Ryan Anderson that deal might not have as much appeal as one would think.

As far as the Wizards. I know were not getting him but to say a Wall/Beal/Butler/Porter core is only 5th best in the East is ignoring how good Butler is. He adds a minimum of 10 wins to this team - arguably more if Rivers or Morris & Oubre are part the trade. He's arguably a top 10 player. While KAT wilted under Butler's intense on & off court presence I think Wall & Beal could use a healthy dose of Jimmy. If any of his intensity, effort and focus can rub off on them then that alone may be worth a pick or two.

I'm getting real sick and tired of hearing this so-called great effect Butler has on his teammates. Whenever the Bulls played the Wiz, I was hoping Butler would be taking shots in crunch time, because I knew he''d take a bad shot. He's never elevated a team he's been on. And this season, he's been nothing but a pussy on a team that should be much better than it is. No way in hell I'd spend 2 WIZARDS 1st round picks on a rental of him. And yes, the Wiz would be 5th at best with him. They're certainly not going to be better than Boston, Toronto, and Milwaukee, and I doubt they'd be better than Philly. Check my math on that, but I'm pretty sure that's 5th best - and for 1 year - and minus 2 1sts. That would be... really stupid.

[queridiculo]

I'm getting real sick and tired of hearing this so-called great effect Butler has on his teammates. Whenever the Bulls played the Wiz, I was hoping Butler would be taking shots in crunch time, because I knew he''d take a bad shot. He's never elevated a team he's been on. And this season, he's been nothing but a pussy on a team that should be much better than it is. No way in hell I'd spend 2 WIZARDS 1st round picks on a rental of him. And yes, the Wiz would be 5th at best with him. They're certainly not going to be better than Boston, Toronto, and Milwaukee, and I doubt they'd be better than Philly. Check my math on that, but I'm pretty sure that's 5th best - and for 1 year - and minus 2 1sts. That would be... really stupid.

Yeah, I don't get that fascination with Butler either.

On top of being on some bad wheels he seems to mistake leadership for being a gigantic ****.

Adding this guy to our toxic team chemistry

Grunfeld built this team, Brooks is coaching those jokers, and the players aren't exactly busting their tails for a better outcome.

Lack of accountability is so deeply ingrained in this franchises culture that the best thing Leonsis could do as an owner is to just sit back and let this **** show unravel.

Don't give any of those guys an out and hold them to the fire when things don't get better late in the season.

Now is not the time to look for solutions outside of the organization.

[Ruzious]

With Houston seemingly desperate and Oubre off to the best start of his career, I'd try to make a deal there and steal Clark and a 1st from them.