RealGM

truwizfan4evr wrote:

Error Afflalo wrote:

Ruzious wrote:Yeah, JR with 2 years left on his deal is certainly a sticking point. I really do not want him on my team.

JR's last year is partially guaranteed. He's only owed $3,870,000 if cut before 6/29/19.

It's still a no for me, though.

I would love to have that 8 pick.

But you're giving up 15 in the process. I'm not giving up Beal for two guys over 30 just to move up 7 spots.

Ruzious wrote:

dckingsfan wrote:

LyricalRico wrote:^ What about subbing in Wall and combining it with the Kemba Walker rumor? Haven't run it through the checker but...

Wizards receive: Love and Walker
Cavs receive: Wall
Hornets receive: #8

Obviously gotta add more pieces to make it work, but that's the general idea.

I like it - but I would think the Wall homers would object vociferously. I would especially like it if you could somehow trade either Gortat, Mahimni, Smith or Morris for a wing without giving up draft picks - possibly Charlotte or Cleveland tosses in a 2nd to allow us to move one or more of them. But that would really be a stretch.

Remember, Wall's still on his old contract, so the Wiz would have to throw in another big contract. If it's Beal or Otto, I don't think any Washington fan would be happy. If it's Mahinmi, no fan of the team getting him would be happy. And Gortat wouldn't be good for the Wiz, because they'd need his contract to expire if they were going to keep both Love and Walker. The money just doesn't work.

Well, if we're turning Wall into 2 starters, I'd feel much better about using a pick to unload Mahinmi (either the #15 or our 2019 first). It doesn't even have to be in the same deal if we're able to deal Mahinmi first to a team with cap space and then use the TPE to absorb Kemba in the larger trade.

IF you feel that chemistry and talent aren't there to move further and you need to retool, Beal is the one that should be traded, not Porter.

WHY? (a) Beal's value right now is as high as it's going to get. Wall's supermax makes him close to untradeable and Porter may have another gear if he's given more responsibility but Beal is very valuable. Thus we could get considerably more.

WHO? Although I've never been a fan, Cousins seems like the obvious target. You don't want someone who is here for a year then out so if Cousins checks out physically (a big if!), send Beal for Cousins. And, because Beal's value is appreciably higher, you should be able to unload Ernie's mistakes and get back decent role players to fill in around Wall/Porter/Cousins.

Beal, Mahinmi, Smith for Cousins (max), Etwaun Moore, Solomon Hill. New Orleans will have to work something out for a SF and there's a bit of a big glut for them but the value may be too good for them to pass up a Holiday/Beal/Davis core. For us it would look like:

Cousins/Gortat
Morris/(Porter)/Scott?
Porter/Oubre
Moore/Satoransky/Meeks
Wall/Satoransky/Frazier?

Give Sato and Oubre a chance to win a starting role (either Moore or Morris could move to the bench). As I said, not convinced Cousins is nearly as good as his numbers say, but this it's a high risk/high reward type of situation.

So all it takes to get rid of Mahinmi is taking back a 1 year deal and giving some team a couple 2nd rounders?

Wall's contract isn't untradeable. If anything, he's one of the most tradeable superstars available because he's one of the few guys on the old max deal. He'd be the perfection addition to a big market because the contract is easy to trade for and they don't care about how much the contract balloons moving forward. The issue is that by the time the Wizards decide to trade Wall, the contract WILL become very hard to move because of how many contracts are needed to make the salaries match.

For example, the Suns would likely be thrilled to give up Brandon Knight, Dudley, a 2019 first or 2018 first (our choice) and a 2018 2nd (#31) for Wall imo. They have enough young rookie core guys and they could use a star free agent like Wall.

If you wait until he makes the high 30's, then you go from needing to include like 1-2 contracts to 3-4 contracts.

I like how Wall's contract is deemed an albatross but 36 year old Chris Paul making $40 million just gets shrugs or James Harden at 32 making $47 million (eventually). When John Wall finishes his contract off, he'd still be younger than Paul is now.

penbeast0 wrote:IF you feel that chemistry and talent aren't there to move further and you need to retool, Beal is the one that should be traded, not Porter.

Yes!

penbeast0 wrote:Although I've never been a fan, Cousins seems like the obvious target.

No!

penbeast0 wrote:...if Cousins checks out physically (a big if!), send Beal for Cousins. And, because Beal's value is appreciably higher, you should be able to unload Ernie's mistakes and get back decent role players to fill in around Wall/Porter/Cousins.

Beal, Mahinmi, Smith for Cousins (max), Etwaun Moore, Solomon Hill.

Won't work. Leaves us with the same impossible salary structure next year.

penbeast0 wrote:For us it would look like:

Cousins/Gortat
Morris/(Porter)/Scott?
Porter/Oubre
Moore/Satoransky/Meeks
Wall/Satoransky/Frazier?

You left out Hill. Those 12 guys put us way over the tax.

penbeast0 wrote:...As I said, not convinced Cousins is nearly as good as his numbers say....

His numbers don't even say he's as good as people think they say. 5.6 turnovers per 40 minutes last year. Good but not great TS%. Coming off a major injury.

NO would jump at this deal. We should jump backwards.

Rafael122 wrote:I like how Wall's contract is deemed an albatross but 36 year old Chris Paul making $40 million just gets shrugs or James Harden at 32 making $47 million (eventually). When John Wall finishes his contract off, he'd still be younger than Paul is now.

he'll be injured every other post season

NatP4 wrote:So all it takes to get rid of Mahinmi is taking back a 1 year deal and giving some team a couple 2nd rounders?

And getting a upgrade atleast dwight can still rebound
we shouldve been all over that dwight deal...mahini is better than mosgov for what its worth..

deneem4 wrote:

NatP4 wrote:So all it takes to get rid of Mahinmi is taking back a 1 year deal and giving some team a couple 2nd rounders?

And getting a upgrade atleast dwight can still rebound
we shouldve been all over that dwight deal...mahini is better than mosgov for what its worth..

It sounded like Howard was stirring **** up in Charlotte, per usual. Wall and Howard would clash, almost a guarantee.

Bulls fans seem to be open to a Mahinmi plus 2nd rounders for Felicio.

That move gets us under the tax, but at the expense of Felicio's extra year on his contract. Chicago sets their books up for the Summer of 2020 when Davis' contract is up.

deneem4 wrote:

NatP4 wrote:So all it takes to get rid of Mahinmi is taking back a 1 year deal and giving some team a couple 2nd rounders?

And getting a upgrade atleast dwight can still rebound
we shouldve been all over that dwight deal...mahini is better than mosgov for what its worth..

Charlotte is in tax territory like us. Trading Dwight here would've required Charlotte to take back more salary than they had to from the

Nets had the cap space to make an uneven salary trade. We couldn't have offered Charlotte any tax relief without finding a third team to take on Smith/Meeks, and even then we couldn't match the compensation Charlotte got unless we parted with pick 44 and another 2nd (Charlotte got 45 and a 2021 2nd).

Rafael122 wrote:I like how Wall's contract is deemed an albatross but 36 year old Chris Paul making $40 million just gets shrugs or James Harden at 32 making $47 million (eventually). When John Wall finishes his contract off, he'd still be younger than Paul is now.

First of all, those guys are WAY better than Wall. Secondly, I don't think anybody is shrugging about the Chris Paul deal. That's a HORRIBLE contract and the only rationale for it was that there was a wink-wink deal made last year when Houston acquired him. But at least it's justifiable in the context that Houston is holding together a legit title contender. That contract is going to hurt 2-3 years down the road, but for now, it could be the contract that secures a title.

Rafael122 wrote:

deneem4 wrote:

NatP4 wrote:So all it takes to get rid of Mahinmi is taking back a 1 year deal and giving some team a couple 2nd rounders?

And getting a upgrade atleast dwight can still rebound
we shouldve been all over that dwight deal...mahini is better than mosgov for what its worth..

It sounded like Howard was stirring **** up in Charlotte, per usual. Wall and Howard would clash, almost a guarantee.

Bulls fans seem to be open to a Mahinmi plus 2nd rounders for Felicio.

That move gets us under the tax, but at the expense of Felicio's extra year on his contract. Chicago sets their books up for the Summer of 2020 when Davis' contract is up.

I'd do that Chicago deal in a minute. Felicio's deal declines after next year:

2018-19: $8,470,980
2019-20: $8,156,500
2020-21: $7,529,020

His contract is tradeable in 2020. Hell, stretching his last year wouldn't hurt that much if it came to it. Sign me up.

NatP4 wrote:So all it takes to get rid of Mahinmi is taking back a 1 year deal and giving some team a couple 2nd rounders?

apparently, but we would have had to add something to beat out the brooklyn deal, as the hornets would save more money with the mozgov contract comparied to mahinmi, only be a couple of million but still

i'd be pissed if I found out such a deal happened and I were Ted though, would have been quite the opportunity for the team

Error Afflalo wrote:

Rafael122 wrote:

deneem4 wrote:
And getting a upgrade atleast dwight can still rebound
we shouldve been all over that dwight deal...mahini is better than mosgov for what its worth..

It sounded like Howard was stirring **** up in Charlotte, per usual. Wall and Howard would clash, almost a guarantee.

Bulls fans seem to be open to a Mahinmi plus 2nd rounders for Felicio.

That move gets us under the tax, but at the expense of Felicio's extra year on his contract. Chicago sets their books up for the Summer of 2020 when Davis' contract is up.

I'd do that Chicago deal in a minute. Felicio's deal declines after next year:

2018-19: $8,470,980
2019-20: $8,156,500
2020-21: $7,529,020

His contract is tradeable in 2020. Hell, stretching his last year wouldn't hurt that much if it came to it. Sign me up.

Yeah. It sure beats stretching Mahinmi. It costs about the same as stretching, but it'll be one less year, and Felicio is at least a warm body rather than a phantom contract. And as an actual body, he can improve, or he can be moved as cap ballast in some other deal down the road.

80sballboy wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/20/17483496/polish-hammer-back-to-phoenix-suns-trade-rumor-wizards-marcin-gortat

Scenaro 1 would be a disaster. We're not giving up the #15 pick just to dump one year of salary of a competent NBA player still capable of starting in this league.

Something like Gortat and a 2nd rounder for Jared Dudley could make sense.

penbeast0 wrote:IF you feel that chemistry and talent aren't there to move further and you need to retool, Beal is the one that should be traded, not Porter.

WHY? (a) Beal's value right now is as high as it's going to get. Wall's supermax makes him close to untradeable and Porter may have another gear if he's given more responsibility but Beal is very valuable. Thus we could get considerably more.

WHO? Although I've never been a fan, Cousins seems like the obvious target. You don't want someone who is here for a year then out so if Cousins checks out physically (a big if!), send Beal for Cousins. And, because Beal's value is appreciably higher, you should be able to unload Ernie's mistakes and get back decent role players to fill in around Wall/Porter/Cousins.

Beal, Mahinmi, Smith for Cousins (max), Etwaun Moore, Solomon Hill. New Orleans will have to work something out for a SF and there's a bit of a big glut for them but the value may be too good for them to pass up a Holiday/Beal/Davis core. For us it would look like:

Cousins/Gortat
Morris/(Porter)/Scott?
Porter/Oubre
Moore/Satoransky/Meeks
Wall/Satoransky/Frazier?

Give Sato and Oubre a chance to win a starting role (either Moore or Morris could move to the bench). As I said, not convinced Cousins is nearly as good as his numbers say, but this it's a high risk/high reward type of situation.

Any deal suggesting we send Beal or Porter in a S&T for a guy with a torn achillies will certainly speed up the tear down process for the next rebuild.

The desire to acquire Cousins also ignores the shifting dynamic of the game to needing mobile bigs to be able to switch and defend on the perimeter. Cousins couldn't do this before he got hurt.

nate33 wrote:

80sballboy wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/20/17483496/polish-hammer-back-to-phoenix-suns-trade-rumor-wizards-marcin-gortat

Scenaro 1 would be a disaster. We're not giving up the #15 pick just to dump one year of salary of a competent NBA player still capable of starting in this league.

Something like Gortat and a 2nd rounder for Jared Dudley could make sense.

The more interesting parts of the story were that the Suns, Mavs and Clippers are interested in Gortat/15. No way any reasonable team takes Gortat and a 2nd unless they can throw a bad contract back. But what was the point of trading him? To shed salary and get under the tax, right? If we get a bunch of retreads and mediocre talent without getting a later first, then we're screwed. Why even work out players if you are never going to draft them?

80sballboy wrote:

nate33 wrote:

80sballboy wrote:https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018/6/20/17483496/polish-hammer-back-to-phoenix-suns-trade-rumor-wizards-marcin-gortat

Scenaro 1 would be a disaster. We're not giving up the #15 pick just to dump one year of salary of a competent NBA player still capable of starting in this league.

Something like Gortat and a 2nd rounder for Jared Dudley could make sense.

The more interesting parts of the story were that the Suns, Mavs and Clippers are interested in Gortat/15. No way any reasonable team takes Gortat and a 2nd unless they can throw a bad contract back. But what was the point of trading him? To shed salary and get under the tax, right? If we get a bunch of retreads and mediocre talent without getting a later first, then we're screwed. Why even work out players if you are never going to draft them?

The bucks would give up a 2nd for Gortat if they could send equal salary back. He’s a useful player