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Continued from here

Dat2U wrote:

payitforward wrote:

Dat2U wrote:I think the Grizz want a GOOD veteran out of dumping Parsons with the 4th pick.

I suggested Otto for Parsons & the 4th, I think that's the best type of deal Memphis can expect if they are intent on using the 4th to rid of Parsons contract. Getting a good starter in return (but not a guy that's considered a star).

The Wizards do it because we'll possibly lose Otto in 2 years anyways if he opts out. Plus it helps our salary structure in two years once Parsons' deal expires.

If Porter opts out, then we are getting the #4 this year for, essentially, the difference between Otto's production & Parsons' production in the next 2 years.

Would you do it?

Porter is the last guy I want to trade, & we don't know that he'll opt out in two years. It's only if you assume that he does that you can justify the value proposition as equitable, & you can't assume that.

Thing is, a team can't really get a lot better via trades. Trades are based on equitability. Sometimes that equitability is disturbed by *need* -- as when we had to give way too much to get Gortat's expiring salary, because our genius FO had zero Plan B when Okafor was injured. But, in principle, these guys all understand that to get value you have to give value, & to get rid of negative value you have to add even more positive value.

In that sense, it's Memphis that is trying to ship out a negative. Think of it this way: would they trade Parsons' boat-anchor contract & the #4 for the #5? Obviously, they would. How about for the #6 instead of the #5? Sure. What if it were the #7 not the #6? Absolutely. Would they take the #8? Keep in mind that they are dumping $50m in salary in this deal! To drop 4 spots in the draft. If you were running the Grizzlies, would you be able to say no to that deal? Realistically?

Of course, if you rinse & repeat, going down one pick at a time, there does come a point where you get to the deal they wouldn't take, right? Would they take Philly's #10, for example? Hmmm... again, real world? Hard not to say yeah ok!

If so, then to make Porter plus the #15, you'd be valuing Otto Porter as equal to a 5 pick drop in this draft. As I say, you'd have to assume it was 100% that he'd be gone anyway after next season.

Yet... at this point I could probably be talked into doing just about anything. I can't help it; I'm really sick of watching this team pretend that it's good, while I also watch Boston & Philly & Indy actually become good. Next will come Milwaukee (probably already have passed us) & Chicago (might take them 2-3 years).

It's getting to be more than I can handle & stay interested in the team. It's also the reason why from time to time (too often, no doubt -- more often than I should) I lapse into negative comments.

The only change that matters, the only real change, will happen when Ernie goes. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, Ernie!

I would make an offer to the grizz,
Ian, morris and meeks for parsons+4 and a trade exception (the one they would use to absorb meeks.) If you take the meeks part out its not a big issue.
They get one or two contracts that are out after this year and ian which is a much cheaper deal than parsons, its a nice savings for them.
While it actually makes our money situation worse. we get the number 4 pick out of it and that is arguably worth it when we have a team that needs young talent infused badly. Plus parsons will be tradable when hes a one year deal or **** it work a buy out with the dude some how. Otto is honestly too valuable to take on such a bad contract even for a first at this point. and honestly parsons would not be a bad bench player, if you ignore his pay... cuz that's what he is, a bench player at best, when he plays at all.

gambitx777 wrote:I would make an offer to the grizz,
Ian, morris and meeks for parsons+4 and a trade exception (the one they would use to absorb meeks.) If you take the meeks part out its not a big issue.
They get one or two contracts that are out after this year and ian which is a much cheaper deal than parsons, its a nice savings for them.
While it actually makes our money situation worse. we get the number 4 pick out of it and that is arguably worth it when we have a team that needs young talent infused badly. Plus parsons will be tradable when hes a one year deal or **** it work a buy out with the dude some how. Otto is honestly too valuable to take on such a bad contract even for a first at this point. and honestly parsons would not be a bad bench player, if you ignore his pay... cuz that's what he is, a bench player at best, when he plays at all.

I actually don't mind the thought of adding salary.
But I think it would have to be Mahinmi, Oubre and 15 for Parsons and 4

rl25g wrote:

gambitx777 wrote:I would make an offer to the grizz,
Ian, morris and meeks for parsons+4 and a trade exception (the one they would use to absorb meeks.) If you take the meeks part out its not a big issue.
They get one or two contracts that are out after this year and ian which is a much cheaper deal than parsons, its a nice savings for them.
While it actually makes our money situation worse. we get the number 4 pick out of it and that is arguably worth it when we have a team that needs young talent infused badly. Plus parsons will be tradable when hes a one year deal or **** it work a buy out with the dude some how. Otto is honestly too valuable to take on such a bad contract even for a first at this point. and honestly parsons would not be a bad bench player, if you ignore his pay... cuz that's what he is, a bench player at best, when he plays at all.

I actually don't mind the thought of adding salary.
But I think it would have to be Mahinmi, Oubre and 15 for Parsons and 4

Salary would not work. because my trade covers the picks salary, this one does not.
Plus id walk away. Mahinmi is actually playable, hes over paid by about 4 mill. parsons can barely stay on the court and isnt much use when he is there. hes over paid by about 15 mill. The 4th pick is goo but kelley have really high value.it would make no sense to do that at all. they have to sell that pick to move parsons. that pick has no residual value. and can't get true value back in the filler of the deal. Thats why i said Ian, morris and meeks. Meeks and morris can be bought out, and having ian saves them 9 mill over parsons. and by cutting morris and meeks they save about 2 more mill.

gambitx777 wrote:I would make an offer to the grizz,
Ian, morris and meeks for parsons+4 and a trade exception (the one they would use to absorb meeks.) If you take the meeks part out its not a big issue.
They get one or two contracts that are out after this year and ian which is a much cheaper deal than parsons, its a nice savings for them.
While it actually makes our money situation worse. we get the number 4 pick out of it and that is arguably worth it when we have a team that needs young talent infused badly. Plus parsons will be tradable when hes a one year deal or **** it work a buy out with the dude some how. Otto is honestly too valuable to take on such a bad contract even for a first at this point. and honestly parsons would not be a bad bench player, if you ignore his pay... cuz that's what he is, a bench player at best, when he plays at all.

Don't you think Memphis actually wants to improve? They would pass up a possible all-star at #4, and take our mediocre players, to save some money 2 years from now?

bsilver wrote:

gambitx777 wrote:I would make an offer to the grizz,
Ian, morris and meeks for parsons+4 and a trade exception (the one they would use to absorb meeks.) If you take the meeks part out its not a big issue.
They get one or two contracts that are out after this year and ian which is a much cheaper deal than parsons, its a nice savings for them.
While it actually makes our money situation worse. we get the number 4 pick out of it and that is arguably worth it when we have a team that needs young talent infused badly. Plus parsons will be tradable when hes a one year deal or **** it work a buy out with the dude some how. Otto is honestly too valuable to take on such a bad contract even for a first at this point. and honestly parsons would not be a bad bench player, if you ignore his pay... cuz that's what he is, a bench player at best, when he plays at all.

Don't you think Memphis actually wants to improve? They would pass up a possible all-star at #4, and take our mediocre players, to save some money 2 years from now?

They'd have to be nuts to make this trade. On top of which, anyway, we couldn't begin to do it. Does anybody actually look at our salary structure before suggesting stuff like this?

rl25g wrote:I actually don't mind the thought of adding salary.
But I think it would have to be Mahinmi, Oubre and 15 for Parsons and 4

Oh, you don't -- that's really good that you don't. Still let me ask you this: are you aware that after making that trade & picking #4, we would be paying 5 guys something over $122m next season? That we'd be over the luxury tax with less than half a team?

Edit: make that "over the luxury tax with 1/3 of a team." Oh, & that would be as a repeater. B/c we'd be over the luxury tax this season.

Man, I'd love to have the #4 pick. I'd take Bamba. I'd love to have Bamba.

You know what else I'd like to have? A Ferrari 488. I mean... take a look: https://auto.ferrari.com/en_US/sports-cars-models/car-range/488-spider/

Who wouldn't? In fact, a friend of mine had a lap in one a couple of weeks ago w/ Ferrari's factory driver, raffele de simone, at the wheel. You can take one too on youtube (in a 458 -- the just previous model):



But, here's the thing -- sadly (or probably more accurate to say luckily, as I'd probably kill myself!), I don't have the scratch for one just at the moment. I don't have anything to trade Ferrari for it -- neither enough money or, say, a used Bugatti to trade in.

That would be more or less where the Wizards are right now. We don't have anything to trade that would bring us the #4 pick in the draft -- assuming, that is, that you don't want to trade John Wall or Brad Beal & are too smart to trade Otto Porter.

We'll have to add as we can: maybe we can get one of these in R2:



It's not going to win any races, but it's always possible to pretend, right?

payitforward wrote:

rl25g wrote:I actually don't mind the thought of adding salary.
But I think it would have to be Mahinmi, Oubre and 15 for Parsons and 4

Oh, you don't -- that's really good that you don't. Still let me ask you this: are you aware that after making that trade & picking #4, we would be paying 5 guys something over $122m next season? That we'd be over the luxury tax with less than half a team?

Edit: make that "over the luxury tax with 1/3 of a team." Oh, & that would be as a repeater. B/c we'd be over the luxury tax this season.

Wait - I thought Ted was good for that... POP - there goes my dream.

I had us with Bamba + 15 + 44 and Ted picking us up another 2nd.

Sigh...

payitforward wrote:

bsilver wrote:

gambitx777 wrote:I would make an offer to the grizz,
Ian, morris and meeks for parsons+4 and a trade exception (the one they would use to absorb meeks.) If you take the meeks part out its not a big issue.
They get one or two contracts that are out after this year and ian which is a much cheaper deal than parsons, its a nice savings for them.
While it actually makes our money situation worse. we get the number 4 pick out of it and that is arguably worth it when we have a team that needs young talent infused badly. Plus parsons will be tradable when hes a one year deal or **** it work a buy out with the dude some how. Otto is honestly too valuable to take on such a bad contract even for a first at this point. and honestly parsons would not be a bad bench player, if you ignore his pay... cuz that's what he is, a bench player at best, when he plays at all.

Don't you think Memphis actually wants to improve? They would pass up a possible all-star at #4, and take our mediocre players, to save some money 2 years from now?

They'd have to be nuts to make this trade. On top of which, anyway, we couldn't begin to do it. Does anybody actually look at our salary structure before suggesting stuff like this?

#1 parsons is terrible ! horrible and his contract is awful.
#2 the salary would be the exact same this year give or take a little. A lot more next year 10-15 mill more but thats a one year bullet to bite for a first round pick, debatable on being worth it or not i guess. with a lot of cap relief coming that next year.
Also i was just going off of something i read about The griz being open to moving that pick to dump parsons contract. Thats the concept I was going off of. and i even said in a post about this that they would probably be able to find a better deal or a team with enough cap room to just absorb the contract and take nothing back. that is the deal I would be comfortable offering them, I don't really care what they would take or not. I just would give up any more than that while taking on a broken and washed up player like parsons, and adding money, while for just one year, it still hurts a lot.

gambitx777 wrote:

payitforward wrote:

bsilver wrote:Don't you think Memphis actually wants to improve? They would pass up a possible all-star at #4, and take our mediocre players, to save some money 2 years from now?

They'd have to be nuts to make this trade. On top of which, anyway, we couldn't begin to do it. Does anybody actually look at our salary structure before suggesting stuff like this?

#1 parsons is terrible ! horrible and his contract is awful.
#2 the salary would be the exact same this year give or take a little. A lot more next year 10-15 mill more but thats a one year bullet to bite for a first round pick, debatable on being worth it or not i guess. with a lot of cap relief coming that next year.
Also i was just going off of something i read about The griz being open to moving that pick to dump parsons contract. Thats the concept I was going off of. and i even said in a post about this that they would probably be able to find a better deal or a team with enough cap room to just absorb the contract and take nothing back. that is the deal I would be comfortable offering them, I don't really care what they would take or not. I just would give up any more than that while taking on a broken and washed up player like parsons, and adding money, while for just one year, it still hurts a lot.

That's why I asked whether people actually know what our salary situation is. We have no cap relief coming! Not that next year not ever in the next several years.

Wall/Beal/Porter/Parsons would cost $118m+ -- for 4 players! The following year we owe 3 players $98m. Oh, & we'd be figuring out how to give a big contract to that #4 pick from '18. Plus... what happened to Oubre? Satoransky?

There is no way any of this is possible. No way at all.

My theory is the Grizz are just fishing to see if they could get a blow them away kind of offer. I doubt they'd give up #4 for anything less than that. The problem contract they actually have is Conley, not Parsons.

Dark Faze wrote:My theory is the Grizz are just fishing to see if they could get a blow them away kind of offer. I doubt they'd give up #4 for anything less than that. The problem contract they actually have is Conley, not Parsons.

This article makes more sense:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/nba/ct-spt-nba-draft-luka-doncic-20180618-story.html

Basically the Grizzlies are willing to move down if someone will take on Chandler Parsons' deal. I think given the league-wide salary cap situation, they are pretty much stuck with Conley. Although Conley seems more likely to play his way out of being an albatross vs. Parsons does seem to be able to stay healthy or effective.

Anyone see ESPN.com, trades they like to see happen. Love, Smith and 8 for Beal, Gortat and 15. Take away JR, and I won't hang up right away.

gravytrain24 wrote:Anyone see ESPN.com, trades they like to see happen. Love, Smith and 8 for Beal, Gortat and 15. Take away JR, and I won't hang up right away.

If Washington were to make that disaster of a trade, I think every Wizards fan gets a free pass to suspend their fandom until Grunfeld is gone and Leonsis sells the team.

payitforward wrote:That would be more or less where the Wizards are right now. We don't have anything to trade that would bring us the #4 pick in the draft -- assuming, that is, that you don't want to trade John Wall or Brad Beal & are too smart to trade Otto Porter.

Eh, if I knew Bamba would be there at 4 I'd trade Porter for Parsons and #4 with zero hesitation. Bamba has too much potential.

Dark Faze wrote:

payitforward wrote:That would be more or less where the Wizards are right now. We don't have anything to trade that would bring us the #4 pick in the draft -- assuming, that is, that you don't want to trade John Wall or Brad Beal & are too smart to trade Otto Porter.

Eh, if I knew Bamba would be there at 4 I'd trade Porter for Parsons and #4 with zero hesitation. Bamba has too much potential.

Actually, I would too. Except I'd a lot rather it were Beal. Or, all the more, John Wall. Obviously not giving up #15 in that trade.

Whether anyone likes Wall/Beal/Porter -- which one, most/least & how much -- it's pretty clear that we are never going to contend for a title, not even for the East, with our current salary structure. & that can't go away unless we get rid of one maybe two of them.

Of course, once we're facing up to our end-stopping salary issues, we could always get radical:

John Wall to Sacramento for their #2 & #36 picks -- take Doncic & Musa
Otto or Brad plus Smith to Memphis for Parsons & the #4 -- take Bamba
Brad or Otto + Meeks to (umm... umm... I know...) Chicago for #7 & #22 -- take Wendell Carter & Huerter
Our #15 to Philly for their #26, #38 & #39 -- take Jacob Evans, Jevon Carter & Rawle Alkins
Our #44 to Philly for their #56 & #60 -- take Ray Spalding or Jarred Vanderbilt & Gary Clark
Sign Bonzi Colson, Billy Preston & Ajdin Penava undrafted

Satoransky, Jevon Carter
Huerter, Evans, Musa, Alkins
Doncic, Oubre, Gary Clark, Colson
Wendell Carter, Ajdin Penava, Billy Preston
Mohamed Bamba, Gortat, Ray Spalding

Any questions?

I don't know how long it would take us to be good, but, hey, it would be fun! &, I tell you what -- our G League team might have one Hxll of a debut season!

Note that in the above scenario, we don't worry about what we're paying Ian Mahinmi. Also, I see I didn't mention him in the line-up. Feel free to put him in just about anywhere you like.

edit: oh, & with Mahinmi that makes 17 guys. Again, that's good for the G League team.

Colson and Gary Clark playing small forward? What?