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Political Roundtable Part XXI

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1881 » by montestewart » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:37 pm

pancakes3 wrote:you're just too stupid. sorry.

Hey, cut it out, that's not the high road! When they go low, we get high!

I have an uncle, a brother-in-law, and a nephew who all served on submarines in similar capacities to STD, since US submarines are at least part spying operation at all times. Like missile combat crews, submariners have specific knowledge of specific technology, processes, procedures, and assignments related to their jobs, and this requires some level of security clearance. My father and my father-in-law both served in high-level government capacities in defense/international diplomacy, and these required much higher and much broader security clearances, giving access to much more information and allowing them to do their jobs. (PS: I have another brother-in-law and a cousin who are dentists, and I also have a cousin, an aunt, and a sister who are in real estate. At Thanksgiving, it's like STD IS THERE!)

In all these cases, the clearances are vetting processes, rating someone regarding access to present or future information. The clearance doesn't give anyone real time access to information they would not otherwise have. It's not like after the election, once Donald Trump became president, and suddenly by virtue of his being president elect he had access to real time top secret information which he immediately began sharing with Russia. It's not like when Donald Trump as president invited Russian dignitaries into the Oval Office and denied access to the FAKE NEWS press, but allowed Russian state run propaganda machine press in, the latter inadvertently (or not) recording and broadcasting Trump smilingly sharing (intentionally or carelessly, WGAF?) top secret information with a US enemy.

The Trump administration's very public revocation of security clearances, along with their very public threats to do so, is clearly intended to silence criticism and scare critics, just as Trump's war on FAKE NEWS is. These may stem originally from the fact that Trump is such a vain, thin-skinned egomaniac, but because his supporters are in such denial about their president's self-centered insecurity and boastful self-appraisals, he and his administration have increasingly been able to transform his childlike whininess into a political weapon casting any criticism of him or the administration as treasonous acts committed not against him but against the country and its people.

Pay STD no mind. I won't say his expressed views are harmless, but debating him can be a pointless exercise. You aren't debating actual points. He's either full on farce, political operative, or too deep in the koolaid to see 1brave9new8world4 picked up by his sonar. Or perhaps he and others are fearful that I am right, that this is the direction we are headed, and they don't want to fall on the wrong side of a full on fascist state. Little Trumps they are.

Not that I do all that much debating period, but I'm here all the time. You see me debating STD or GOC? I have at times debated Nate, and he's acknowledged a few of my points, and I've acknowledged a few of his points. That's a debate. I've had a few discussions with popper too. I've even debated dck--who I don't consider a conservative, he just wants to know where all the effing money is going to come from, which is a perfectly valid question. I've also debated with Zards and others who aren't conservatives at all. Debate with people who you disagree on something. Don't debate with human bullet pointed propaganda machines. Was not a man, was some sorta debatin' machine.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1882 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:42 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:black people are happy under the trump economy. and were miserable under obama.



You should go to the south side of Chicago and ask if this is true...



Tell them you read it in a tweet -- so it must be.

:roll:
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1883 » by montestewart » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:47 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1884 » by montestewart » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:49 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:black people are happy under the trump economy. and were miserable under obama.



You should go to the south side of Chicago and ask if this is true...



Tell them you read it in a tweet -- so it must be.

:roll:

He's in the south side of Chicago, but I think he has a wall or something
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1885 » by stilldropin20 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:58 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Interesting write-up (IMO). The one thing that could (again, IMO) derail the Ds is the trade wars - if Trump can make enough progress in 90 days, it could also bury the Rs.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-big-picture-in-the-race-for-the-house/?ex_cid=2018-forecast


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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1886 » by stilldropin20 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:37 pm

montestewart wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:you're just too stupid. sorry.

Hey, cut it out, that's not the high road! When they go low, we get high!

I have an uncle, a brother-in-law, and a nephew who all served on submarines in similar capacities to STD, since US submarines are at least part spying operation at all times. Like missile combat crews, submariners have specific knowledge of specific technology, processes, procedures, and assignments related to their jobs, and this requires some level of security clearance. My father and my father-in-law both served in high-level government capacities in defense/international diplomacy, and these required much higher and much broader security clearances, giving access to much more information and allowing them to do their jobs. (PS: I have another brother-in-law and a cousin who are dentists, and I also have a cousin, an aunt, and a sister who are in real estate. At Thanksgiving, it's like STD IS THERE!)

In all these cases, the clearances are vetting processes, rating someone regarding access to present or future information. The clearance doesn't give anyone real time access to information they would not otherwise have. It's not like after the election, once Donald Trump became president, and suddenly by virtue of his being president elect he had access to real time top secret information which he immediately began sharing with Russia. It's not like when Donald Trump as president invited Russian dignitaries into the Oval Office and denied access to the FAKE NEWS press, but allowed Russian state run propaganda machine press in, the latter inadvertently (or not) recording and broadcasting Trump smilingly sharing (intentionally or carelessly, WGAF?) top secret information with a US enemy.

The Trump administration's very public revocation of security clearances, along with their very public threats to do so, is clearly intended to silence criticism and scare critics, just as Trump's war on FAKE NEWS is. These may stem originally from the fact that Trump is such a vain, thin-skinned egomaniac, but because his supporters are in such denial about their president's self-centered insecurity and boastful self-appraisals, he and his administration have increasingly been able to transform his childlike whininess into a political weapon casting any criticism of him or the administration as treasonous acts committed not against him but against the country and its people.

Pay STD no mind. I won't say his expressed views are harmless, but debating him can be a pointless exercise. You aren't debating actual points. He's either full on farce, political operative, or too deep in the koolaid to see 1brave9new8world4 picked up by his sonar. Or perhaps he and others are fearful that I am right, that this is the direction we are headed, and they don't want to fall on the wrong side of a full on fascist state. Little Trumps they are.

Not that I do all that much debating period, but I'm here all the time. You see me debating STD or GOC? I have at times debated Nate, and he's acknowledged a few of my points, and I've acknowledged a few of his points. That's a debate. I've had a few discussions with popper too. I've even debated dck--who I don't consider a conservative, he just wants to know where all the effing money is going to come from, which is a perfectly valid question. I've also debated with Zards and others who aren't conservatives at all. Debate with people who you disagree on something. Don't debate with human bullet pointed propaganda machines. Was not a man, was some sorta debatin' machine.


not true. you have exactly what you describe above from the left in the form of pointgod, GTN, wizardspride, and jwiz. spamming with their complete hogwash. I give them the same in return. On the other hand you have someone trying to make the occasional "fair and balanced" criticism. i give them "fair and balanced" debate in return.

Everyone...please... take a huge step backwards for a second and lets all look at each each other. We are basketball fans. Like many here, I've been on realgm for almost 2 decades. When it comes to the game of basketball, We all see it the similarly...we see that at times nepotism fully exists in the NBA, favoritism, etc. That favors are given all of the time. But... generally...we see that the best man gets the job and therfore the big pay check. and some other dude gets cut. gets nothing. no contract. no money. no nothing. Sometimes very similar talents. Coaches and GM's decide these things and to keep their jobs those same coaches and GM's create environments for their own picks to succeed. We accept that in sports. But not in everyday life? Why? We all know, understand, and accept that life aint fair. However unfair life is, it is is unfair to us in different ways, right? There is always 1 very pretty girl for ever 6 below average girls, right? There is always someone who is smarter, taller, bigger, stronger, better coordination, better disposition, better at working within a group, etc? Right? We accept that. Why do we not accept it off of the court? Why do you guys worship NBA players, celebs, etc?

^^^FTR, I've grown a lot as basketball fan since i first came on here in 2002. The child in me wanted to cheer for MJ as he returned to the wizards. I buried my head in the sand on many a debate...more obsessed with the storyline of MJ. I ignored the stats and the eye test just to see if MJ could "pull it off (almost by himself) one more time." I know, childish. But that was what I was watching. I had played team basketball for 2 decades and understood as a player that (teams) win games no individuals. But with MJ, I fanboyed out instead. A time in my life that ive completely outgrown. I stopped cheering for the name on the back of the jersey altogether. I began to make my own money and my own way in the world and simply outgrew fandom altogether. Thats why i like Boston and did like GSW so much. The sum was greater than the parts due to style selflessness. But even on Boston and SA and GSW, there is only 15 spots on the team and only 1 basketball. And the selfish jerks like Durant get to take the ball, go iso a few times at the end of games and win themselves an MVP award on a team he almost has no business being a part of. As for lebron, thats all he does is pound the ball and dominate usage so as to dominate the stat board. its almost impossible for anyone else on a lebron team to earn a fair contract and go out and play up to that contract. And we accept that. Most here on realgm in fact worship the very ground Lebron or Durant walk on. And most here on realgm are liberals. CA board. Gen board. Etc. Ive been here long enough to see liberals outnumber conservatives at least 5-1. And those libs love them some KD and Lebron. I personally cant stand either player. Stylistically, I'm more a Steph, Kawhi and Klay fan. If i was a fan at all of players which I'm not. I prefer styles of baksetball. selfless ball movement. I think its harder to defeat if you get full buy in from all 5 on the court. But not liberals. they love the raucous jerky iso ball and the singular hero. Like MJ was. a complete jerk on and off the court. very liberal basketball fans love that, though. They really do.

So why do liberals not accept the same version of KD and Lebron in the real world? The business tycoon. The political jerk that just talks trash to everyone. The libs will listen and vote for who kanye, Jayz, MJ, lebron, and KD tell them to vote? kinda weird no? kinda of an odd juxtaposition, no?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1887 » by stilldropin20 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:40 pm

montestewart wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:black people are happy under the trump economy. and were miserable under obama.



You should go to the south side of Chicago and ask if this is true...



Tell them you read it in a tweet -- so it must be.

:roll:

He's in the south side of Chicago, but I think he has a wall or something


born, bred, and raised on the south side. all of my peeps are south siders. All of my businesses are on the south side. all of my patients and real estate clients are from the south side. ive already asked and I have reported here many anecdotes. Bottom line. South siders are happier now under trump economy. Much happier. Its the truth!!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1888 » by stilldropin20 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:27 pm

awwwww isn't that precious! Mr. Treason himself. backing completely away from his comments. wow! But of course the damage was already done politically. Chicken littles like GTN and wizardspride(who i like) ran off thinking Trump was actually committing treason. FTR, Brennen is now fully backing away from all of those comments. Wow. just wow. He knew better when he said them. The exiting CIA director can NOT say those things without them being 100% true. This can NOT happen! Just like current administrations using the DOJ to spy on political opponenents. It can NOT happen. Its a crime!!!! we already dealt with this in the Nixon era. Everyone agreed...administrations can NOT do these kinds of things and in fact avoid even "the appearence of impropriety when in office and serving the STATE or Local governement. Thats the rule of law!!

All is not fair in politics and war!! It's not!! its not ok!! Brennem, clapper, comey, mccabe, strzok, Page, Ohr...they all must be brought to justice for this weave they wove.<--if they were just making career gambles on HRC winning and none of it would see daylight? then punish them! Fine them hard. Imprison them is possible. But if the orders came from above?? Then punish those that gave the orders. This MUST HAPPEN.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1889 » by stilldropin20 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:49 pm

montestewart wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:you're just too stupid. sorry.

Hey, cut it out, that's not the high road! When they go low, we get high!

I have an uncle, a brother-in-law, and a nephew who all served on submarines in similar capacities to STD, since US submarines are at least part spying operation at all times. Like missile combat crews, submariners have specific knowledge of specific technology, processes, procedures, and assignments related to their jobs, and this requires some level of security clearance. My father and my father-in-law both served in high-level government capacities in defense/international diplomacy, and these required much higher and much broader security clearances, giving access to much more information and allowing them to do their jobs. (PS: I have another brother-in-law and a cousin who are dentists, and I also have a cousin, an aunt, and a sister who are in real estate. At Thanksgiving, it's like STD IS THERE!)



also...tell your submariner family that I was a CT tech(aka worked in the radio room) and Navy Diver aboard the USS Parche and USS William H bates after overhaul with SDV. Seriously. mention that. If they worked in operations at all then they know I served aboard the most stealth boat in the navy. The spy ship of spy ships. At the end of the cold war!!!! And I was the diver/CT tech!!!!! Seriously. if they worked in operations at all then they know what that means.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1890 » by gtn130 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:34 pm

proud to say i also don't agree with SD20 on basketball
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1891 » by Wizardspride » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:19 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
montestewart wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:you're just too stupid. sorry.

Hey, cut it out, that's not the high road! When they go low, we get high!

I have an uncle, a brother-in-law, and a nephew who all served on submarines in similar capacities to STD, since US submarines are at least part spying operation at all times. Like missile combat crews, submariners have specific knowledge of specific technology, processes, procedures, and assignments related to their jobs, and this requires some level of security clearance. My father and my father-in-law both served in high-level government capacities in defense/international diplomacy, and these required much higher and much broader security clearances, giving access to much more information and allowing them to do their jobs. (PS: I have another brother-in-law and a cousin who are dentists, and I also have a cousin, an aunt, and a sister who are in real estate. At Thanksgiving, it's like STD IS THERE!)



also...tell your submariner family that I was a CT tech(aka worked in the radio room) and Navy Diver aboard the USS Parche and USS William H bates after overhaul with SDV. Seriously. mention that. If they worked in operations at all then they know I served aboard the most stealth boat in the navy. The spy ship of spy ships. At the end of the cold war!!!! And I was the diver/CT tech!!!!! Seriously. if they worked in operations at all then they know what that means.

And yet you had no problem with Trump repeatedly ******** on a fellow sailor (Sen McCain).
McCabe explains that Trump believed Putin over US intel about NK missiles: "Intel officials [told Trump his position] was not consistent with any of the intel our govt possesses. To which POTUS replied, 'I don't care. I believe Putin.'"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1892 » by GhostofChenier » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:08 am

Image

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1893 » by doclinkin » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:12 am

montestewart wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:you're just too stupid. sorry.

Hey, cut it out, that's not the high road! When they go low, we get high!

I have an uncle, a brother-in-law, and a nephew who all served on submarines in similar capacities to STD, since US submarines are at least part spying operation at all times. Like missile combat crews, submariners have specific knowledge of specific technology, processes, procedures, and assignments related to their jobs, and this requires some level of security clearance. My father and my father-in-law both served in high-level government capacities in defense/international diplomacy, and these required much higher and much broader security clearances, giving access to much more information and allowing them to do their jobs. (PS: I have another brother-in-law and a cousin who are dentists, and I also have a cousin, an aunt, and a sister who are in real estate. At Thanksgiving, it's like STD IS THERE!)

In all these cases, the clearances are vetting processes, rating someone regarding access to present or future information. The clearance doesn't give anyone real time access to information they would not otherwise have. It's not like after the election, once Donald Trump became president, and suddenly by virtue of his being president elect he had access to real time top secret information which he immediately began sharing with Russia. It's not like when Donald Trump as president invited Russian dignitaries into the Oval Office and denied access to the FAKE NEWS press, but allowed Russian state run propaganda machine press in, the latter inadvertently (or not) recording and broadcasting Trump smilingly sharing (intentionally or carelessly, WGAF?) top secret information with a US enemy.

The Trump administration's very public revocation of security clearances, along with their very public threats to do so, is clearly intended to silence criticism and scare critics, just as Trump's war on FAKE NEWS is. These may stem originally from the fact that Trump is such a vain, thin-skinned egomaniac, but because his supporters are in such denial about their president's self-centered insecurity and boastful self-appraisals, he and his administration have increasingly been able to transform his childlike whininess into a political weapon casting any criticism of him or the administration as treasonous acts committed not against him but against the country and its people.

Pay STD no mind. I won't say his expressed views are harmless, but debating him can be a pointless exercise. You aren't debating actual points. He's either full on farce, political operative, or too deep in the koolaid to see 1brave9new8world4 picked up by his sonar. Or perhaps he and others are fearful that I am right, that this is the direction we are headed, and they don't want to fall on the wrong side of a full on fascist state. Little Trumps they are.

Not that I do all that much debating period, but I'm here all the time. You see me debating STD or GOC? I have at times debated Nate, and he's acknowledged a few of my points, and I've acknowledged a few of his points. That's a debate. I've had a few discussions with popper too. I've even debated dck--who I don't consider a conservative, he just wants to know where all the effing money is going to come from, which is a perfectly valid question. I've also debated with Zards and others who aren't conservatives at all. Debate with people who you disagree on something. Don't debate with human bullet pointed propaganda machines. Was not a man, was some sorta debatin' machine.



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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1894 » by nate33 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:18 pm

montestewart wrote:The Trump administration's very public revocation of security clearances, along with their very public threats to do so, is clearly intended to silence criticism and scare critics, just as Trump's war on FAKE NEWS is.


Perhaps we need to discuss John Brennan's track record a bit more:

1) In 2011, Brennan, then the country’s chief counterterrorism adviser, had sworn to Congress that scores of drones strikes abroad had not killed a single noncombatant — at a time when both the president and the CIA were both receiving numerous reports of civilian collateral deaths.

2) In 2014, John Brennan, now as CIA director, lied emphatically that the CIA had not illegally accessed the computers of U.S. Senate staffers who were then exploring a CIA role in torturing detainees. Or as he told Andrea Mitchell: “As far as the allegations of the CIA hacking into Senate computers, nothing could be further from the truth. . . . We wouldn’t do that. I mean, that’s just beyond the, you know, the scope of reason in terms of what we do.” Brennan’s chronic deceptions drew the ire of a number of liberal senators, some of whom echoed the Washington Post’s call for his immediate resignation. After months of prevarications, but only upon release of the CIA inspector general’s report, Brennan apologized to the senators he had deceived.

3) Brennan, in May 2017, as an ex-CIA director, again almost certainly did not tell the truth to Congress when he testified in answer to Representative Trey Gowdy’s questions that he neither knew who had commissioned the Steele dossier nor had the CIA relied on its contents for any action. Yet both the retired National Security Agency director, Michael Rogers, and the former director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, have conceded that the Steele dossier — along with the knowledge that it was a Clinton-campaign-funded product — most certainly did help shape the Obama’s intelligence communality interagency assessments and actions, often under the urging of Brennan himself. There are also numerous reports that, despite his denials about knowledge of the dossier, Brennan served as a stealthy conduit to ensure that it was disseminated widely, at least in the sense of meeting in August 2016 with Senator Harry Reid to brief the senator about its unverified contents in hopes that he would pressure the FBI to further its investigations, which Reid did in a call two days later to James Comey.

4) The list of Brennan’s unprofessional and bizarre behavior could be expanded, such as his weird tweet in reaction to the Trump firing of compromised FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe (who would shortly be recommended for criminal referrals for misleading federal investigators by the nonpartisan inspector general): “When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history. You may scapegoat Andy McCabe, but you will not destroy America . . . America will triumph over you.” Andy McCabe was not “scapegoated” but found to be likely mendacious enough by the inspector general to warrant a DOJ investigation.

And as SD20 noted, Brennan used the authority and respect attributed to him as former CIA director to bizarrely accuse the President of the United States of literal treason for the crime of being diplomatic to Putin in a press conference. He admitted this week that it wasn't treason at all.

The guy is clearly a liar, clearly unstable, and we will probably find out that he is a criminal conspirator in a plot to use the power of the CIA and FBI to stop Trump. He absolutely deserved to lose his security clearance. Victor Davis Hanson sums it up nicely:

We are currently witnessing two parallel investigations: One is Robert Mueller’s, who is mandated to explore whether Donald Trump colluded with the Russians to warp the 2016 election leading to Hillary Clinton’s defeat, and another by federal agencies and congressional committees into whether members of the Obama administration’s intelligence and national-security teams improperly used their powers to surveil (and unmask and leak the names of) U.S. citizens, including misleading a U.S. FISA court on the basis of an opposition-researched and unverified dossier, to monitor improperly a political campaign by the insertion of an “informant” in it, and to leak damaging but unproven information to alter a presidential election and transition. That numerous FBI and DOJ officials have already been reassigned, resigned, fired, or retired has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory. The facts will eventually come out about both lines of inquiry, but we already know well enough about the proven lack of veracity of one John Brennan and his various iterations.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1895 » by Pointgod » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:21 pm

National Review :lol:
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1896 » by Wizardspride » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:24 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19
McCabe explains that Trump believed Putin over US intel about NK missiles: "Intel officials [told Trump his position] was not consistent with any of the intel our govt possesses. To which POTUS replied, 'I don't care. I believe Putin.'"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1897 » by montestewart » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:48 pm

Brennan has plenty of warts, so many he looks like a cauliflower, but he already has a ton of information and no continuing access to secure information. The same goes for the other people the administration has threatened in a similar manner. In this context, the move doesn't appear at all connected to national security, and seems much more similar to the way the President of the United States, every once in a while, on Twitter, attacks individuals far beneath the presidency, that it seems he would do better to ignore.

Similar also to the way Obama threatened to ban Fox from press briefings. This here looks like it is on a much larger scale. Using the power of the presidency to silence criticism. If we want to discuss the extent of that criticism, fine, but we cannot have that discussion without acknowledging the attempts to silence the criticism.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1898 » by montestewart » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:48 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
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Hilarious. They're really enjoying watching him twist in the wind.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1899 » by montestewart » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:08 pm

You're all my Wizards brothers and (cdouglas and others) sisters. I got my biases too, but I sincerely believe this is a better thread because there are Trump supporters here offering their perspectives. I'm just trying to mod the best I can and keep things flowing when they get clogged up with name calling. If a poster is making you go ballistic, maybe put them on ignore for a while.

I'm not making any blanket statements about who to ignore or who to respond to (I've never put anyone on ignore), just keep it clean and try to avoid pure name calling. I would go a step further and, rather than making broad brush comments like "all liberals/conservatives are" whatever, we should try to focus more on the exact opinion/policy/behavior. Hard not to slip into generalizations (I do it myself sometimes) but then the conversation becomes more about sociology than politics.

PS: I've actually seen a few of what I considered to be interesting exchanges between STD and some other posters. And regardless of his views, I have to admit (and I'm sure he knows this) he's made me laugh a few times, something Wizards fans have to learn how to do in order to survive.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXI 

Post#1900 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:14 pm

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o "get out!!"" :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

wow, sounds like a straight up racist to me. Why would Paris Denard have to get out? What did Paris do or say to deserve to be told to get out? Get out of where?

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like i said, its a full rebuild.

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