Political Roundtable Part XXI

[montestewart]

Plenty of racists out there. In my experience, liberals hide it better than conservatives, who don't have to. But push the right buttons...

[dckingsfan]

I've even debated dck--who I don't consider a conservative, he just wants to know where all the effing money is going to come from, which is a perfectly valid question.

DCK isn't either a conservative or liberal. He is a sustainable government type - which he thinks IS the issue in front of us now.

Just watch what is happening in Turkey and Venezuela, think it can't happen here - wrong. We in Looney Tunes mode right now on both sides. Trump's fiscal policy is flat out stupid - it is burying us alive. Obama's stimulus did the same. Both sides are playing a negative sum game. And both sides blame the other. One side is spending more on social policies than we can afford. The other side spending on defense and starving the revenue side.

If you think identity politics are bad, read your history on when economies collapse. This is what is so infuriating about Sanders/Warren - they don't even try to think of how to balance the budget. And about the current Rs - theu know they put in a tax bill that gets us to the cliff faster. What is most puzzling about this is that they actually did a good job reining in spending and helping the economy grow under Obama - and deficit spending actually started to shrink. And then this... unbelievable, unconscionable, irrational.

And it isn't just at the federal level - take a look at the state level as well.

And if you don't want war - think about this one. When we fail as a country it will inevitably cause instability in the world. And I don't even want to think what the next war will look like.

#EOR

[Wizardspride]

Hey, cut it out, that's not the high road! When they go low, we get high!

I have an uncle, a brother-in-law, and a nephew who all served on submarines in similar capacities to STD, since US submarines are at least part spying operation at all times. Like missile combat crews, submariners have specific knowledge of specific technology, processes, procedures, and assignments related to their jobs, and this requires some level of security clearance. My father and my father-in-law both served in high-level government capacities in defense/international diplomacy, and these required much higher and much broader security clearances, giving access to much more information and allowing them to do their jobs. (PS: I have another brother-in-law and a cousin who are dentists, and I also have a cousin, an aunt, and a sister who are in real estate. At Thanksgiving, it's like STD IS THERE!)

also...tell your submariner family that I was a CT tech(aka worked in the radio room) and Navy Diver aboard the USS Parche and USS William H bates after overhaul with SDV. Seriously. mention that. If they worked in operations at all then they know I served aboard the most stealth boat in the navy. The spy ship of spy ships. At the end of the cold war!!!! And I was the diver/CT tech!!!!! Seriously. if they worked in operations at all then they know what that means.

And yet you had no problem with Trump repeatedly ******** on a fellow sailor (Sen McCain).

..........

[stilldropin20]

proud to say i also don't agree with SD20 on basketball

ok so what kind of basketball do you guys like and i'm calling out doclinkin on this as well as i see he gave you an and 1.

you guys like iso ball? seriously? You guys should know...your GM knows what you like and thats what they give you on the court. Very very very few organizations make strictly basketball decisions. They all appease their fanbases. 3 decades later, John Paxson is still looking for searching for an iso (hero) ball player while all conventional wisdom says you can NOT beat a multi talented with multiple willing passers, multiple capable ball handlers team like Boston or GSW that are willing to spray it around to multiple capable 3 pt shooters that will set picks for each other off ball and wait for open shots on the perimeter and can take advantage of overly aggressive close outs on those shooters.

its the NBA. good shooters make open shots. and make open shots (>5') about 5% points higher(or more) than closely guarded <3'). so a 40% 3 pt shooter shoots 45% open and 35% guarded.<-- easily the difference between winning and losing any given game when modern team takes 25 or more 3's per game. So its not only the "team basketball" that is more fun for me but its also more fun for me to watch smart basketball. I dont like ego driven basketball unless a guy just has the super hot hand and is drawing multiple defenders and also spraying it around when he gets doubled. Nothing was more fun than watching the early days of GSW dynasty. Taking down both iso ball teams in OKC and Miami. And in such a way so as to completely dismantle 2 of the most talented teams ever assembled. On great teams where the leaders are unselfish, the style is just more fun to watch. Egos are checked at the door and the product is easier on the eyes. and in fact, it is very thrilling to watch the massive ego driven iso ballers completely melt down on the court and basically give up to the smarter basketball teams like Boston and GSW and SA.

But i'm very interested to hear what style you guys like??

[stilldropin20]

also...tell your submariner family that I was a CT tech(aka worked in the radio room) and Navy Diver aboard the USS Parche and USS William H bates after overhaul with SDV. Seriously. mention that. If they worked in operations at all then they know I served aboard the most stealth boat in the navy. The spy ship of spy ships. At the end of the cold war!!!! And I was the diver/CT tech!!!!! Seriously. if they worked in operations at all then they know what that means.

And yet you had no problem with Trump repeatedly ******** on a fellow sailor (Sen McCain).

..........

come on...you expected a response to that? Mccain is a never trumper. mccain criticized trump on the campaign trail. Trump punched back inappropriately. and they have been arch enemies ever since.

here's the thing though. mccain is a manufactured war hero...not unlike members of the kennedy family. And I hate to say that about anyone who served because i believe in service let alone anyone who died while serving or was a POW. (My grandfather was a POW that was 6'2, 230 when he entered and came out 75 pounds. Its a hell i dont wish on anyone. Somehow Mccain returned from communist POW camp 10 pounds heavier.

Recall that mccain's father was an admiral and (commander of US Naval Forces) who basically scripted his son's career.<--and did so in order to become a politician. Both of the mccains were tied to multiple naval mishaps in the late 60's. mccain is said to have been a canary while a POW(giving away secrets). Because Mccain's father was an admiral and commander in the Navy, mccain was allowed to leave. chose to stay. the Vietnamese reportedly took their frustrations out on the other POWS there with mccain.

And for his entire time in office Mccain has been one of the biggest War Hawks we have ever seen.<--I dont think that is the right approach. We need to be ready. But we can be stealth. and we can be smart. And we can simply have better technology and a better spy network to accomplish similar goals at half of the cost. And we dont have to be "nice" about it.

its only when armies are "nice" when you suffer massive and expensive casualties. For example a ruthless, yet smart and savvy team, say, seal team 6 can surgically accomplish almost any mission given enough air support. we can take out any regime from the top down. But because we are always trying to be diplomatic...we end up with conventional ground wars that mccain is always "hawking" that cost hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars and decades to "complete."<--only to end up talking about regime change decades later. Why not just go in stealth and take them out and save the hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions in bombs and destruction??? Basically, mccain is the guy that wants to line up soldiers, revolutionary war style and fight wars of attrition while mccain himself was a pilot and product of extreme nepotism and was not very good a.

In short, trumps criticisms may have been in poor taste but likely spot on. mccain was not a very good sailor. And then as a POW<--that should be something that disqualifies anyone from serving in congress or being president. Too much PTSD. Too much likelihood of war hawking. Brand built on being captive works on the general public. But shouldn't. Its like a child that was abused for decades...do we want that person becoming president? or a senator? We shouldn't imo. part of the reason i voted for obama in 2008.

then lets look at Mccains involvement with the dossier...walking it over to congress. falling for it. Purposefully? treasonous.

[montestewart]

proud to say i also don't agree with SD20 on basketball

ok so what kind of basketball do you guys like and i'm calling out doclinkin on this as well as i see he gave you an and 1.

you guys like iso ball? seriously? You guys should know...your GM knows what you like and thats what they give you on the court. Very very very few organizations make strictly basketball decisions. They all appease their fanbases. 3 decades later, John Paxson is still looking for searching for an iso (hero) ball player while all conventional wisdom says you can NOT beat a multi talented with multiple willing passers, multiple capable ball handlers team like Boston or GSW that are willing to spray it around to multiple capable 3 pt shooters that will set picks for each other off ball and wait for open shots on the perimeter and can take advantage of overly aggressive close outs on those shooters.

its the NBA. good shooters make open shots. and make open shots (>5') about 5% points higher(or more) than closely guarded <3'). so a 40% 3 pt shooter shoots 45% open and 35% guarded.<-- easily the difference between winning and losing any given game when modern team takes 25 or more 3's per game. So its not only the "team basketball" that is more fun for me but its also more fun for me to watch smart basketball. I dont like ego driven basketball unless a guy just has the super hot hand and is drawing multiple defenders and also spraying it around when he gets doubled. Nothing was more fun than watching the early days of GSW dynasty. Taking down both iso ball teams in OKC and Miami. And in such a way so as to completely dismantle 2 of the most talented teams ever assembled. On great teams where the leaders are unselfish, the style is just more fun to watch. Egos are checked at the door and the product is easier on the eyes. and in fact, it is very thrilling to watch the massive ego driven iso ballers completely melt down on the court and basically give up to the smarter basketball teams like Boston and GSW and SA.

But i'm very interested to hear what style you guys like??

Move this to a basketball thread. Start a "what kind of team would you like to see?" thread if you want to.

[Wizardspride]

And yet you had no problem with Trump repeatedly ******** on a fellow sailor (Sen McCain).

..........

come on...you expected a response to that? Mccain is a never trumper. mccain criticized trump on the campaign trail. Trump punched back inappropriately. and they have been arch enemies ever since.

here's the thing though. mccain is a manufactured war hero...not unlike members of the kennedy family. And I hate to say that about anyone who served because i believe in service let alone anyone who died while serving or was a POW. (My grandfather was a POW that was 6'2, 230 when he entered and came out 75 pounds. Its a hell i dont wish on anyone. Somehow Mccain returned from communist POW camp 10 pounds heavier.

Recall that mccain's father was an admiral and (commander of US Naval Forces) who basically scripted his son's career.<--and did so in order to become a politician. Both of the mccains were tied to multiple naval mishaps in the late 60's. mccain is said to have been a canary while a POW(giving away secrets). Because Mccain's father was an admiral and commander in the Navy, mccain was allowed to leave. chose to stay. the Vietnamese reportedly took their frustrations out on the other POWS there with mccain.

And for his entire time in office Mccain has been one of the biggest War Hawks we have ever seen.<--I dont think that is the right approach. We need to be ready. But we can be stealth. and we can be smart. And we can simply have better technology and a better spy network to accomplish similar goals at half of the cost. And we dont have to be "nice" about it.

its only when armies are "nice" when you suffer massive and expensive casualties. For example a ruthless, yet smart and savvy team, say, seal team 6 can surgically accomplish almost any mission given enough air support. we can take out any regime from the top down. But because we are always trying to be diplomatic...we end up with conventional ground wars that mccain is always "hawking" that cost hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars and decades to "complete."<--only to end up talking about regime change decades later. Why not just go in stealth and take them out and save the hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions in bombs and destruction??? Basically, mccain is the guy that wants to line up soldiers, revolutionary war style and fight wars of attrition while mccain himself was a pilot and product of extreme nepotism and was not very good a.

In short, trumps criticisms may have been in poor taste but likely spot on. mccain was not a very good sailor. And then as a POW<--that should be something that disqualifies anyone from serving in congress or being president. Too much PTSD. Too much likelihood of war hawking. Brand built on being captive works on the general public. But shouldn't. Its like a child that was abused for decades...do we want that person becoming president? or a senator? We shouldn't imo. part of the reason i voted for obama in 2008.

then lets look at Mccains involvement with the dossier...walking it over to congress. falling for it. Purposefully? treasonous.

McCain is a never Trumper and possibly a bad soldier. Fine.

So in your mind that justified Trump's attacks on McCain?

Nah, I can't agree with you there.

Remember this is 5 DEFEREMENT Donald Trump.

When it comes to military service he probably should be quiet.

Heck, I supported Barack Obama in 2008 but even I wouldn't have supported him attacking McCain in that manner.

[stilldropin20]

I've even debated dck--who I don't consider a conservative, he just wants to know where all the effing money is going to come from, which is a perfectly valid question.

DCK isn't either a conservative or liberal. He is a sustainable government type - which he thinks IS the issue in front of us now.

Just watch what is happening in Turkey and Venezuela, think it can't happen here - wrong. We in Looney Tunes mode right now on both sides. Trump's fiscal policy is flat out stupid - it is burying us alive. Obama's stimulus did the same. Both sides are playing a negative sum game. And both sides blame the other. One side is spending more on social policies than we can afford. The other side spending on defense and starving the revenue side.

If you think identity politics are bad, read your history on when economies collapse. This is what is so infuriating about Sanders/Warren - they don't even try to think of how to balance the budget. And about the current Rs - theu know they put in a tax bill that gets us to the cliff faster. What is most puzzling about this is that they actually did a good job reining in spending and helping the economy grow under Obama - and deficit spending actually started to shrink. And then this... unbelievable, unconscionable, irrational.

And it isn't just at the federal level - take a look at the state level as well.

And if you don't want war - think about this one. When we fail as a country it will inevitably cause instability in the world. And I don't even want to think what the next war will look like.

#EOR

as scary as it is there are a lot of people that see WW3 as the means to get out from the debt. I dont agree nor want it to come to that. But as long as we have the most advanced armed forces by significant margin we should be fine.

Think of it like this. WW2. No one ever follows the money. But they should. In every criminal enterprise, that is all anyone ever follows: the money.

In the case of war, paper money becomes worthless unless that government is going to win the war. So Gold becomes the thing of value in war. Oil/Gas reserves have become similarly valuable. So foreign armies invade to control and those 2 things.

Hitler for example first raided 4 rothschild mansion in austria then the pol/czech gold reserves where he luted 25 tons to pay for the early part of his war. <--as the USA entered the war, we ended up with over 5 times the gold reserves at the end of the war then at the beginning. No politician can say they are going to enter a war for Gold. Or land with oil reserves. But in fact at the end of every conflict over the last 100 years, a significant transfer of both gold reserves and oil reserves has occurred.

follow the money.

So in theory, a foreign war can break out. The united states can remain neutral. pick a side (who has the most and pays the most) and "win" the war. Rinse and repeat. This occurred halfway through WW1 and halfway through WW2. United states experienced Boom economies for a decade after WW1 and Boom economy for 3 decades after WW2. Then Jimmy carter signed the "help china" legislation in 1979 (shortly after significant investment in china by rothchild central banks throughout the 1970's). Eventually, our economy slowed and recessed as eventually a critical mass of jobs and manufacturing was lost to china.

personally, I give it 20 years max before there is an all out WW3. I hope we are ready. And i hope we are smart. And I hope we pick our allies wisely.

[stilldropin20]

..........

come on...you expected a response to that? Mccain is a never trumper. mccain criticized trump on the campaign trail. Trump punched back inappropriately. and they have been arch enemies ever since.

here's the thing though. mccain is a manufactured war hero...not unlike members of the kennedy family. And I hate to say that about anyone who served because i believe in service let alone anyone who died while serving or was a POW. (My grandfather was a POW that was 6'2, 230 when he entered and came out 75 pounds. Its a hell i dont wish on anyone. Somehow Mccain returned from communist POW camp 10 pounds heavier.

Recall that mccain's father was an admiral and (commander of US Naval Forces) who basically scripted his son's career.<--and did so in order to become a politician. Both of the mccains were tied to multiple naval mishaps in the late 60's. mccain is said to have been a canary while a POW(giving away secrets). Because Mccain's father was an admiral and commander in the Navy, mccain was allowed to leave. chose to stay. the Vietnamese reportedly took their frustrations out on the other POWS there with mccain.

And for his entire time in office Mccain has been one of the biggest War Hawks we have ever seen.<--I dont think that is the right approach. We need to be ready. But we can be stealth. and we can be smart. And we can simply have better technology and a better spy network to accomplish similar goals at half of the cost. And we dont have to be "nice" about it.

its only when armies are "nice" when you suffer massive and expensive casualties. For example a ruthless, yet smart and savvy team, say, seal team 6 can surgically accomplish almost any mission given enough air support. we can take out any regime from the top down. But because we are always trying to be diplomatic...we end up with conventional ground wars that mccain is always "hawking" that cost hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars and decades to "complete."<--only to end up talking about regime change decades later. Why not just go in stealth and take them out and save the hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions in bombs and destruction??? Basically, mccain is the guy that wants to line up soldiers, revolutionary war style and fight wars of attrition while mccain himself was a pilot and product of extreme nepotism and was not very good a.

In short, trumps criticisms may have been in poor taste but likely spot on. mccain was not a very good sailor. And then as a POW<--that should be something that disqualifies anyone from serving in congress or being president. Too much PTSD. Too much likelihood of war hawking. Brand built on being captive works on the general public. But shouldn't. Its like a child that was abused for decades...do we want that person becoming president? or a senator? We shouldn't imo. part of the reason i voted for obama in 2008.

then lets look at Mccains involvement with the dossier...walking it over to congress. falling for it. Purposefully? treasonous.

McCain is a never Trumper and possibly a bad soldier. Fine.

So in your mind that justified Trump's attacks on McCain?

Nah, I can't agree with you there.

Remember this is 5 DEFEREMENT Donald Trump.

When it comes to military service he probably should be quiet.

Heck, I supported Barack Obama in 2008 but even I wouldn't have supported him attacking McCain in that manner.

fair enough but just making a point on 2008...did you watch that campaign? I'm sure you did. Obama was the globetrotters and Mccain the generals. As Rocky balboa once said, "some guys show up to vegas just to lose."

[montestewart]

Post WWII economy has slowed significantly under Nixon/Ford, Carter, Bush I, and Bush II. Nice job of identifying the only Democrat in that group, singling them out as if standing alone, and (as usual) blaming in on Jews. Consistency is the hallmark of a greeting card.

[Pointgod]

I've even debated dck--who I don't consider a conservative, he just wants to know where all the effing money is going to come from, which is a perfectly valid question.

DCK isn't either a conservative or liberal. He is a sustainable government type - which he thinks IS the issue in front of us now.

Just watch what is happening in Turkey and Venezuela, think it can't happen here - wrong. We in Looney Tunes mode right now on both sides. Trump's fiscal policy is flat out stupid - it is burying us alive. Obama's stimulus did the same. Both sides are playing a negative sum game. And both sides blame the other. One side is spending more on social policies than we can afford. The other side spending on defense and starving the revenue side.

If you think identity politics are bad, read your history on when economies collapse. This is what is so infuriating about Sanders/Warren - they don't even try to think of how to balance the budget. And about the current Rs - theu know they put in a tax bill that gets us to the cliff faster. What is most puzzling about this is that they actually did a good job reining in spending and helping the economy grow under Obama - and deficit spending actually started to shrink. And then this... unbelievable, unconscionable, irrational.

And it isn't just at the federal level - take a look at the state level as well.

And if you don't want war - think about this one. When we fail as a country it will inevitably cause instability in the world. And I don't even want to think what the next war will look like.

#EOR

Hey dckingsfan. While we might disagree on topics i like the insights you bring but any candidate running on sustainability is going to be a snoozer. The reality is the American public doesn’t give a **** about sustainability because the intricacies of deficits and spending isn’t simple enough for your average voter to understand. And this is case where both sides don’t care about the deficit, although like you mentioned under Obama spending started to shrink. Republicans used it as a political cudgel under Obama yet we’re happy to spend in record levels under Trump. Democrats aren’t fully acknowledging how they’re going to pay for a these programs they’re proposing. However we know that Republicans will happily run up the deficit for wars and to give tax breaks to the wealthy while Democrats will run it up for things like education, worker retraining, infrastructure and healthcare. At least with Democrats their spending will positively benefit the economy and society. But truth be told running on sustainability won’t excite your voting base.

[stilldropin20]

proud to say i also don't agree with SD20 on basketball

ok so what kind of basketball do you guys like and i'm calling out doclinkin on this as well as i see he gave you an and 1.

you guys like iso ball? seriously? You guys should know...your GM knows what you like and thats what they give you on the court. Very very very few organizations make strictly basketball decisions. They all appease their fanbases. 3 decades later, John Paxson is still looking for searching for an iso (hero) ball player while all conventional wisdom says you can NOT beat a multi talented with multiple willing passers, multiple capable ball handlers team like Boston or GSW that are willing to spray it around to multiple capable 3 pt shooters that will set picks for each other off ball and wait for open shots on the perimeter and can take advantage of overly aggressive close outs on those shooters.

its the NBA. good shooters make open shots. and make open shots (>5') about 5% points higher(or more) than closely guarded <3'). so a 40% 3 pt shooter shoots 45% open and 35% guarded.<-- easily the difference between winning and losing any given game when modern team takes 25 or more 3's per game. So its not only the "team basketball" that is more fun for me but its also more fun for me to watch smart basketball. I dont like ego driven basketball unless a guy just has the super hot hand and is drawing multiple defenders and also spraying it around when he gets doubled. Nothing was more fun than watching the early days of GSW dynasty. Taking down both iso ball teams in OKC and Miami. And in such a way so as to completely dismantle 2 of the most talented teams ever assembled. On great teams where the leaders are unselfish, the style is just more fun to watch. Egos are checked at the door and the product is easier on the eyes. and in fact, it is very thrilling to watch the massive ego driven iso ballers completely melt down on the court and basically give up to the smarter basketball teams like Boston and GSW and SA.

But i'm very interested to hear what style you guys like??

Move this to a basketball thread. Start a "what kind of team would you like to see?" thread if you want to.

but what if i only want to know the style and brand of basketball the political posters/readers prefer?

[montestewart]

ok so what kind of basketball do you guys like and i'm calling out doclinkin on this as well as i see he gave you an and 1.

you guys like iso ball? seriously? You guys should know...your GM knows what you like and thats what they give you on the court. Very very very few organizations make strictly basketball decisions. They all appease their fanbases. 3 decades later, John Paxson is still looking for searching for an iso (hero) ball player while all conventional wisdom says you can NOT beat a multi talented with multiple willing passers, multiple capable ball handlers team like Boston or GSW that are willing to spray it around to multiple capable 3 pt shooters that will set picks for each other off ball and wait for open shots on the perimeter and can take advantage of overly aggressive close outs on those shooters.

its the NBA. good shooters make open shots. and make open shots (>5') about 5% points higher(or more) than closely guarded <3'). so a 40% 3 pt shooter shoots 45% open and 35% guarded.<-- easily the difference between winning and losing any given game when modern team takes 25 or more 3's per game. So its not only the "team basketball" that is more fun for me but its also more fun for me to watch smart basketball. I dont like ego driven basketball unless a guy just has the super hot hand and is drawing multiple defenders and also spraying it around when he gets doubled. Nothing was more fun than watching the early days of GSW dynasty. Taking down both iso ball teams in OKC and Miami. And in such a way so as to completely dismantle 2 of the most talented teams ever assembled. On great teams where the leaders are unselfish, the style is just more fun to watch. Egos are checked at the door and the product is easier on the eyes. and in fact, it is very thrilling to watch the massive ego driven iso ballers completely melt down on the court and basically give up to the smarter basketball teams like Boston and GSW and SA.

But i'm very interested to hear what style you guys like??

Move this to a basketball thread. Start a "what kind of team would you like to see?" thread if you want to.

but what if i only want to know the style and brand of basketball the political posters/readers prefer?

You need to use that random thoughts thread, because that's sounding pretty random. Turn it into a poll or something. I doubt you'll find too much match up between politics and preferred style of basketball

[stilldropin20]

Post WWII economy has slowed significantly under Nixon/Ford, Carter, Bush I, and Bush II. Nice job of identifying the only Democrat in that group, singling them out as if standing alone, and (as usual) blaming in on Jews. Consistency is the hallmark of a greeting card.

my god, seriously? this is what i expect from the CA board but here?

if someone says, the Bush's, does that mean "the racist whites."

If someone says the obama's, does that mean "the blacks"

If someone says the clinton's does that mean "the treasonist rapists"

if someone says the catholic church does that mean "the pedophiles"

so why then when someone says "the rothschild banking family" does that mean "the jews" . I am seriously asking this question? What one earth does one thing have to do with the other??? (except of course the case of the clintons).

IMO we all need to stop protecting wealthy elite powerful families. The Clintons, the Bush's, the obama's, the pritzkers, and even the Trumps as well as all the middle eastern oil families, Putin's oligarchs, the emerging chinese billionaires, etc . We can't protect them with cries of racism. These families and few others decide everything around the globe. Whatever mess you think we have or dont have...these families have decided it. Stop protecting them with cries of racism!!!

[montestewart]

Because the Rothschild conspiracy theory was a major part of the Nazis justification for suppressing and ultimately murderously exterminating Jews in the 30s and 40s, as well being a continuing part of other racist individuals and groups justifying all manner of evil perpetrated against anyone identified as a Jew. To state your conspiracy theories as if they stand apart from that established history amounts to some combination of ignorance or disingenuousness.

This is nothing like the CA board. They banned you.

[dckingsfan]

I've even debated dck--who I don't consider a conservative, he just wants to know where all the effing money is going to come from, which is a perfectly valid question.

DCK isn't either a conservative or liberal. He is a sustainable government type - which he thinks IS the issue in front of us now.

Just watch what is happening in Turkey and Venezuela, think it can't happen here - wrong. We in Looney Tunes mode right now on both sides. Trump's fiscal policy is flat out stupid - it is burying us alive. Obama's stimulus did the same. Both sides are playing a negative sum game. And both sides blame the other. One side is spending more on social policies than we can afford. The other side spending on defense and starving the revenue side.

If you think identity politics are bad, read your history on when economies collapse. This is what is so infuriating about Sanders/Warren - they don't even try to think of how to balance the budget. And about the current Rs - theu know they put in a tax bill that gets us to the cliff faster. What is most puzzling about this is that they actually did a good job reining in spending and helping the economy grow under Obama - and deficit spending actually started to shrink. And then this... unbelievable, unconscionable, irrational.

And it isn't just at the federal level - take a look at the state level as well.

And if you don't want war - think about this one. When we fail as a country it will inevitably cause instability in the world. And I don't even want to think what the next war will look like.

#EOR

Hey dckingsfan. While we might disagree on topics i like the insights you bring but any candidate running on sustainability is going to be a snoozer. The reality is the American public doesn’t give a **** about sustainability because the intricacies of deficits and spending isn’t simple enough for your average voter to understand. And this is case where both sides don’t care about the deficit, although like you mentioned under Obama spending started to shrink. Republicans used it as a political cudgel under Obama yet we’re happy to spend in record levels under Trump. Democrats aren’t fully acknowledging how they’re going to pay for a these programs they’re proposing. However we know that Republicans will happily run up the deficit for wars and to give tax breaks to the wealthy while Democrats will run it up for things like education, worker retraining, infrastructure and healthcare. At least with Democrats their spending will positively benefit the economy and society. But truth be told running on sustainability won’t excite your voting base.

Thanks for the considered response. And there were two times in recent history where we made progress on the issue. When Clinton was POTUS and you had a R house. And again when Obama was POTUS and you had an R house. The rest of the time as been a cluster.

And it doesn't matter if the Ds have better intensions. A financial meltdown is a financial meltdown. Runaway inflation makes SS moot. You can't pay for healthcare. Scarcity of food and shelter ensue.

Or it is a slow fall off the cliff and you have to start cutting programs. At a federal level, think of all programs except SS, Medicade and Medicare being shuttered. At a local level, think of runaway costs for higher ed and 50 to 1 classrooms for K12. Think of reducing the police force by 2/3rds.

That Ryan hasn't spoken out about the stupidity of Trumps Fiscal (lack of) plan is mind boggling. Same way with the Ds that don't speak out against the Sanders moonshots - truly mind boggling.

And the reason that voters don't care? Because politicians aren't bringing it up. Both sides are playing a negative sum game. And both sides blame the other with - "yeah, but look at the other guy."

[dckingsfan]

Because the Rothschild conspiracy theory was a major part of the Nazis justification for suppressing and ultimately murderously exterminating Jews in the 30s and 40s, as well being a continuing part as other racist individuals and groups justifying all manner of evil perpetrated against anyone identified as a Jew. To state your conspiracy theories as if they stand apart from that established history amounts to some combination of ignorance or disingenuousness.

This is nothing like the CA board. They banned you.

This - it is disingenuous unless you think the holocaust never happened. That the conversation is happening is either willful ignorance or just plain hate.

[Pointgod]

DCK isn't either a conservative or liberal. He is a sustainable government type - which he thinks IS the issue in front of us now.

Just watch what is happening in Turkey and Venezuela, think it can't happen here - wrong. We in Looney Tunes mode right now on both sides. Trump's fiscal policy is flat out stupid - it is burying us alive. Obama's stimulus did the same. Both sides are playing a negative sum game. And both sides blame the other. One side is spending more on social policies than we can afford. The other side spending on defense and starving the revenue side.

If you think identity politics are bad, read your history on when economies collapse. This is what is so infuriating about Sanders/Warren - they don't even try to think of how to balance the budget. And about the current Rs - theu know they put in a tax bill that gets us to the cliff faster. What is most puzzling about this is that they actually did a good job reining in spending and helping the economy grow under Obama - and deficit spending actually started to shrink. And then this... unbelievable, unconscionable, irrational.

And it isn't just at the federal level - take a look at the state level as well.

And if you don't want war - think about this one. When we fail as a country it will inevitably cause instability in the world. And I don't even want to think what the next war will look like.

#EOR

Hey dckingsfan. While we might disagree on topics i like the insights you bring but any candidate running on sustainability is going to be a snoozer. The reality is the American public doesn’t give a **** about sustainability because the intricacies of deficits and spending isn’t simple enough for your average voter to understand. And this is case where both sides don’t care about the deficit, although like you mentioned under Obama spending started to shrink. Republicans used it as a political cudgel under Obama yet we’re happy to spend in record levels under Trump. Democrats aren’t fully acknowledging how they’re going to pay for a these programs they’re proposing. However we know that Republicans will happily run up the deficit for wars and to give tax breaks to the wealthy while Democrats will run it up for things like education, worker retraining, infrastructure and healthcare. At least with Democrats their spending will positively benefit the economy and society. But truth be told running on sustainability won’t excite your voting base.

Thanks for the considered response. And there were two times in recent history where we made progress on the issue. When Clinton was POTUS and you had a R house. And again when Obama was POTUS and you had an R house. The rest of the time as been a cluster.

And it doesn't matter if the Ds have better intensions. A financial meltdown is a financial meltdown. Runaway inflation makes SS moot. You can't pay for healthcare. Scarcity of food and shelter ensue.

Or it is a slow fall off the cliff and you have to start cutting programs. At a federal level, think of all programs except SS, Medicade and Medicare being shuttered. At a local level, think of runaway costs for higher ed and 50 to 1 classrooms for K12. Think of reducing the police force by 2/3rds.

That Ryan hasn't spoken out about the stupidity of Trumps Fiscal (lack of) plan is mind boggling. Same way with the Ds that don't speak out against the Sanders moonshots - truly mind boggling.

And the reason that voters don't care? Because politicians aren't bringing it up. Both sides are playing a negative sum game. And both sides blame the other with - "yeah, but look at the other guy."

So what you're saying is that people should be voting for Dem Presidents

On one hand you have Democrats who's have ideas that will increase receipts to the government (federal jobs guarantee, raising minimum wage, tuition relief) or reduce costs(Medicare for all).

Then you have republicans who offer absolutely **** all or new ideas.

[nate33]

Because the Rothschild conspiracy theory was a major part of the Nazis justification for suppressing and ultimately murderously exterminating Jews in the 30s and 40s, as well being a continuing part as other racist individuals and groups justifying all manner of evil perpetrated against anyone identified as a Jew. To state your conspiracy theories as if they stand apart from that established history amounts to some combination of ignorance or disingenuousness.

This is nothing like the CA board. They banned you.

This - it is disingenuous unless you think the holocaust never happened. That the conversation is happening is either willful ignorance or just plain hate.

I can see why SD20's references to the Rothchilds can be easily mistaken for outright antisemitism because the "the Rothchilds" are code for "the Jews" in various circles. However, I honestly don't think SD20 is referencing "the Jews" in his complaints. I think he is referencing the global banking cartel. Ever since the Government ceded authority for monetary policy to a private cartel of banks known as the Fed, the banking cartel has had profound, unchecked power to enrich themselves and their connected friends at the expense of middle class citizens. It's a legitimate concern.

[montestewart]

Because the Rothschild conspiracy theory was a major part of the Nazis justification for suppressing and ultimately murderously exterminating Jews in the 30s and 40s, as well being a continuing part as other racist individuals and groups justifying all manner of evil perpetrated against anyone identified as a Jew. To state your conspiracy theories as if they stand apart from that established history amounts to some combination of ignorance or disingenuousness.

This is nothing like the CA board. They banned you.

This - it is disingenuous unless you think the holocaust never happened. That the conversation is happening is either willful ignorance or just plain hate.

I can see why SD20's references to the Rothchilds can be easily mistaken for outright antisemitism because the "the Rothchilds" are code for "the Jews" in various circles. However, I honestly don't think SD20 is referencing "the Jews" in his complaints. I think he is referencing the global banking cartel. Ever since the Government ceded authority for monetary policy to a private cartel of banks known as the Fed, the banking cartel has had profound, unchecked power to enrich themselves and their connected friends at the expense of middle class citizens. It's a legitimate concern.

Well, I'm no friend of banks and bankers, but I call them "banks and bankers" so, hopefully, everyone knows who and what I am talking about.