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The Troy Brown Thread

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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#521 » by Ruzious » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:58 pm

Butler really built up his body a few years ago - he's a physical specimen - far stronger than Brown. It would take a ton of work for Brown to gain that kind of strength. Oladipo made that type of commitment to his body about 2 years ago, and it clearly paid off. Most players work hard, but players like Butler, Oladipo, Giannis, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and a few more - are freaks.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#522 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:22 pm

Ruzious wrote:Butler really built up his body a few years ago - he's a physical specimen - far stronger than Brown. It would take a ton of work for Brown to gain that kind of strength. Oladipo made that type of commitment to his body about 2 years ago, and it clearly paid off. Most players work hard, but players like Butler, Oladipo, Giannis, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and a few more - are freaks.


Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#523 » by Ruzious » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:29 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Butler really built up his body a few years ago - he's a physical specimen - far stronger than Brown. It would take a ton of work for Brown to gain that kind of strength. Oladipo made that type of commitment to his body about 2 years ago, and it clearly paid off. Most players work hard, but players like Butler, Oladipo, Giannis, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and a few more - are freaks.


Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.

If TBJ can be Otto without injuries, I'll be very pleased. Pif would probably... well, we can't say that here. This is a family show.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#524 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:30 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Butler really built up his body a few years ago - he's a physical specimen - far stronger than Brown. It would take a ton of work for Brown to gain that kind of strength. Oladipo made that type of commitment to his body about 2 years ago, and it clearly paid off. Most players work hard, but players like Butler, Oladipo, Giannis, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and a few more - are freaks.


Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.

Defense will be the difference-maker for Brown. Otto was a great help defender but not very good as a one-on-one defender. Brown isn't even as good as Otto was defensively, but he's young still.

If Brown evolves into an above-average man defender, he will be exactly what this team (and every team) needs at the SF position.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#525 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:42 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Butler really built up his body a few years ago - he's a physical specimen - far stronger than Brown. It would take a ton of work for Brown to gain that kind of strength. Oladipo made that type of commitment to his body about 2 years ago, and it clearly paid off. Most players work hard, but players like Butler, Oladipo, Giannis, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and a few more - are freaks.

Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.

Comparing Brown to Porter is interesting. Clearly Brown (thus far) is a better defensive rebounder (and he gets more steals). But Otto was a very good defender. It will be interesting to see which of them ends up as the better defender. If Brown works on his body as you infer - he could be better.

On the offensive side, Brown initiates the break better and is a better ball handler and passer (that could be his super power over time). But Porter had a TS of .628 at one point - yikes. Brown's .597 in January isn't too bad. And .452 from 3 in January - really?!?
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#526 » by DCZards » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:45 pm

Ruzious wrote:If TBJ can be Otto without injuries, I'll be very pleased. Pif would probably... well, we can't say that here. This is a family show.


Hey...let's give PIF some props. He's already become a hardcore Troy fan and cheerleader...above and beyond most people on this board.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#527 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:12 pm

DCZards wrote:
Ruzious wrote:If TBJ can be Otto without injuries, I'll be very pleased. Pif would probably... well, we can't say that here. This is a family show.


Hey...let's give PIF some props. He's already become a hardcore Troy fan and cheerleader...above and beyond most people on this board.


Just gonna leave me and Ruz out huh?!?

From the day after we drafted Troy:

:wink:
Remember, he is a year younger than Porter Jr. and Ayton. Think about that for a second.

For all those that hate on EG (myself included), we should be happy that a few things occurred.
1) We didnt trade the pick to dump salary
2) We went young with upside
3) We went with Otto/Sato Archetype of high IQ, Big tool box player, who is both an underrated athlete and shooter.
Go look up Kawhi, Otto, and Sato when they were 18/19 y/o. Hardworking, high IQ, do it all players that couldnt shoot... These guys pan out assuming they dont have TERRIBLE mechanical issues.
Brown is a basketball athlete. Balance, reaction time, etc. Like Otto

And yes, I will admit that I wasnt high on him pre draft. But that is because I didnt like some of his advanced stats and figured he was Evan Turner...But I didnt factor in 2 things:

1) How young he is. Here are all the Freshman Brown is MORE THAN a year younger than:
Ayton, Bamba, Young, SGA, Porter Jr., Robinson, Diallo, Duval, McCoy, Spellman (2 years).
- Younger than some HS Seniors and a late growth spurt... He is going to get better assuming he has the work ethic

2) Shooting mechanics - I saw his shooting numbers and was turned off. But when you see his form you see that its a matter of time and confidence before it falls. Easiest thing to improve on.

I see Caris Levert with better defense and a slightly higher ceiling on offense. This is a SA / GSW type player... Im ok with it


Half kidding... but I’m really sold on Brown and actually think is overall smoothness, IQ, rebounding, etc. will be a great compliment to Rui.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#528 » by DCZards » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:58 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
DCZards wrote:
Ruzious wrote:If TBJ can be Otto without injuries, I'll be very pleased. Pif would probably... well, we can't say that here. This is a family show.


Hey...let's give PIF some props. He's already become a hardcore Troy fan and cheerleader...above and beyond most people on this board.


Just gonna leave me and Ruz out huh?!?


Didn't mean to leave anyone out...just responding to the comment about PIF. There were several of us that were big Troy fans--even before PIF--so props to you guys as well. Here's what I wrote on this thread the day after Troy was drafted:

I'll be the first to admit that I didn't know much, if anything, about Brown before the draft. But I do like long, 6-7 players with a high motor, a good bball IQ, the ability to defend multiple positions, and great ballhandling skills for a wing. Those are attributes that you can build on.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#529 » by Ruzious » Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:36 pm

Tbh, I was not impressed with the TBJ pick - the pick surprised me - he wasn't on my radar at all - but I've gotten on the bandwagon - glad to have been wrong about him and hopefully he becomes a really good all-around player. Kudos to those who liked the pick from the start.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#530 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:03 pm

Ruzious wrote:Tbh, I was not impressed with the TBJ pick - the pick surprised me - he wasn't on my radar at all - but I've gotten on the bandwagon - glad to have been wrong about him and hopefully he becomes a really good all-around player. Kudos to those who liked the pick from the start.

Through my database driven analytics - I have foolproof :rofl: numbers for next year:

Code: Select all

Age   TS%      3P%   DRB%   AST%   STL%   BLK%   TOV%
19   0.487   0.319   16.6   14.9   1.4    0.6    10.5
20   0.547   0.352   20.5   11.3   2.3    0.3    10.1
21   0.600   0.400   21.5   15.5   2.6    0.7     9.4
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#531 » by gambitx777 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 3:58 am

Go to the numbers and his numbers and style of play are very close to an early Caron Butler and I think brown might be better and more athletic than Caron was and he's still younger than Caron was when he entered the league. Look at the numbers and watch some tape. We might have a better version of Caron Butler on our hands and that is an above average starter and a border line all-star.

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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#532 » by payitforward » Sat Feb 1, 2020 3:15 pm

Ruzious wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Butler really built up his body a few years ago - he's a physical specimen - far stronger than Brown. It would take a ton of work for Brown to gain that kind of strength. Oladipo made that type of commitment to his body about 2 years ago, and it clearly paid off. Most players work hard, but players like Butler, Oladipo, Giannis, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and a few more - are freaks.


Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.

If TBJ can be Otto without injuries, I'll be very pleased. Pif would probably... well, we can't say that here. This is a family show.

:>

Given where he is at his age, there's really no way to predict a ceiling for Troy.

In 2016-17, Otto played over 2600 minutes; the only better 3's in the league that year were Durant, LeBron, Giannis, Butler & Kawhi. That's why we won 49 games. He was by far our best player.

The following year he was just slightly less productive & played slightly fewer minutes. Still, his play was the biggest reason we won 43 games despite John being out half the season & Brad having a bit of an off season. (Then last year his body gave out, & his productivity fell off a cliff.)

If Troy gets to the level of Otto in 2016-17 -- & maintains that level through his peak years -- he'll be a star. At 20, he's already better than Otto was in 2015-16, when he was 22.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#533 » by dckingsfan » Sat Feb 1, 2020 6:52 pm

Spoiler:
payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.

If TBJ can be Otto without injuries, I'll be very pleased. Pif would probably... well, we can't say that here. This is a family show.

:>

Given where he is at his age, there's really no way to predict a ceiling for Troy.

In 2016-17, Otto played over 2600 minutes; the only better 3's in the league that year were Durant, LeBron, Giannis, Butler & Kawhi. That's why we won 49 games. He was by far our best player.

The following year he was just slightly less productive & played slightly fewer minutes. Still, his play was the biggest reason we won 43 games despite John being out half the season & Brad having a bit of an off season. (Then last year his body gave out, & his productivity fell off a cliff.)
If Troy gets to the level of Otto in 2016-17 -- & maintains that level through his peak years -- he'll be a star. At 20, he's already better than Otto was in 2015-16, when he was 22.

Damn solid reason for optimism!
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#534 » by pcbothwel » Sat Feb 1, 2020 7:06 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.

If TBJ can be Otto without injuries, I'll be very pleased. Pif would probably... well, we can't say that here. This is a family show.

:>

Given where he is at his age, there's really no way to predict a ceiling for Troy.

In 2016-17, Otto played over 2600 minutes; the only better 3's in the league that year were Durant, LeBron, Giannis, Butler & Kawhi. That's why we won 49 games. He was by far our best player.

The following year he was just slightly less productive & played slightly fewer minutes. Still, his play was the biggest reason we won 43 games despite John being out half the season & Brad having a bit of an off season. (Then last year his body gave out, & his productivity fell off a cliff.)

If Troy gets to the level of Otto in 2016-17 -- & maintains that level through his peak years -- he'll be a star. At 20, he's already better than Otto was in 2015-16, when he was 22.


PIF. To clarify, TBJ will probably never be the pure shooter Otto was, but I think he’s a better overall athlete which will allow him to draw more fouls, defend a broader array of players, and create more for himself.
So he is better positioned to handle the responsibility of being a 3rd piece both physically and psychologically.
He’ll be the more consistent player while Rui will be the guy who let take over when he’s hot, at least early on.

Assuming we hit on a G in the draft, a lineup of
Pick (Halliburton?)
Brown
Bongs
Rui
Bryant

... would probably be a near 500 team all by themselves.
There... optimism. Lol
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#535 » by nate33 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 8:42 pm

pcbothwel wrote:Assuming we hit on a G in the draft, a lineup of
Pick (Halliburton?)
Brown
Bongs
Rui
Bryant

... would probably be a near 500 team all by themselves.
There... optimism. Lol

Do you mean next year? Or the year after?

Because, no. That team isn't good at all. At this point, Bonga and Hachimura are fringe rotation players and Bryant and Brown are 6th men on a decent team. Even if Halliburton is an SGA caliber player, that team wouldn't win 30 games.

Hachimura and Halliburton are going to have to pan out to be borderline All-Star caliber players for that team to win 41. And there is no reason yet to project Hachimura to be that good.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#536 » by payitforward » Sat Feb 1, 2020 8:46 pm

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Butler really built up his body a few years ago - he's a physical specimen - far stronger than Brown. It would take a ton of work for Brown to gain that kind of strength. Oladipo made that type of commitment to his body about 2 years ago, and it clearly paid off. Most players work hard, but players like Butler, Oladipo, Giannis, Lebron, Anthony Davis, and a few more - are freaks.


Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.

Defense will be the difference-maker for Brown. Otto was a great help defender but not very good as a one-on-one defender. Brown isn't even as good as Otto was defensively, but he's young still.

If Brown evolves into an above-average man defender, he will be exactly what this team (and every team) needs at the SF position.

For sure. But, if we look for the biggest differences between rookie Troy & the same kid this year, scoring stands out. He's raised all 3 of his numbers (2pt. %, 3 pt. % & FT. %) by a lot. & that's with a bump in usage too (not a big bump, but still...). Of course, he's still not a big time scorer -- both his points & his TS% remain a little below average. Still, a jump of 6 percentage points in TS% is nothing to sneeze at -- especially between rookie year & year 2, especially at his age, & especially given the fact that he's also up overall in all the rest of the boxscore stats.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#537 » by payitforward » Sat Feb 1, 2020 8:58 pm

DCZards wrote:Hey...let's give PIF some props. He's already become a hardcore Troy fan and cheerleader...above and beyond most people on this board.

Thanks! But let's not forget that I hated the pick! :)

Now... that's not the same as hating the player -- I just thought that if he was the guy we wanted, we could have traded down & gotten him anyway while also getting another solid asset -- maybe even Mitchell Robinson, but if not him then at least someone like De'Anthony Melton.

Probably still would have been a better move, even if we hadn't gotten Troy -- that was a great draft! OTOH, there's no room for complaint given that Troy has a good shot to be better than at least 1/2 of the guys taken before him.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#538 » by pcbothwel » Sat Feb 1, 2020 9:34 pm

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Assuming we hit on a G in the draft, a lineup of
Pick (Halliburton?)
Brown
Bongs
Rui
Bryant

... would probably be a near 500 team all by themselves.
There... optimism. Lol

Do you mean next year? Or the year after?

Because, no. That team isn't good at all. At this point, Bonga and Hachimura are fringe rotation players and Bryant and Brown are 6th men on a decent team. Even if Halliburton is an SGA caliber player, that team wouldn't win 30 games.

Hachimura and Halliburton are going to have to pan out to be borderline All-Star caliber players for that team to win 41. And there is no reason yet to project Hachimura to be that good.


To clarify... two years. So 21/22
I’m just pointing out that young core with Bertans and another MLE player would be far and away the best, and youngest, team around Wall and Beal. It’s clearly not championship caliber... but it gives us some interesting opportunities should a player want to come here.

Seeing and hearing about Walls recovery gives me solid belief that the Wall/Beal output over the next 2 - 3 years will be better than any previous iteration.

I think Beal is, and will continue to be, better than any version of Wall and a All NBA player once in the Next two years. So 2020+ Wall just needs to better than a rookie contract Beal, and that’s quite feasible.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#539 » by payitforward » Sat Feb 1, 2020 9:42 pm

Right now, this year, Troy Brown Jr. is a better player than Jayson Tatum. More productive.

On everything but scoring, it isn't even close. Troy is way better than Jayson Tatum overall on that stuff. As to scoring, well, per 40 minutes Tatum does score 9.25 more points than Brown. But, it takes him 8 more shots & 1.6 more FTs to get those 9.25 extra points. That work isn't delivering an advantage to his team.

Right now, this year, Troy Brown Jr. is also a better player than Jaylen Brown. More productive.

As in the Tatum comparison, on everything but scoring, it isn't even close. In fact it's not even nearly as close as between Troy & Tatum. Troy is in a different world from Brown on all this stuff. As to scoring, well, per 40 minutes Brown score 7.75 more points than Brown. & he does it efficiently too -- only 4.17 more shots & more 2.25 FTs to get those 7.75 extra points -- that's great. But, it doesn't make up for the enormous advantage Troy has in the rest of the stuff.

Troy is awfully good already... at 20 years of age.
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Re: The Troy Brown Thread 

Post#540 » by dckingsfan » Sat Feb 1, 2020 10:23 pm

payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Just wait... You can see his frame will easily add strength. He hasnt even filled out yet at 20. Give him another summer of health and training with Brad and John and I think you see a much improved player next year.

While I think Wall will come back healthy and Brad will continue to be an All-NBA player, my wildcard for becoming a contender has always been Brown. I think he becomes a better overall player than Otto was. Brown is already a FAR better player than Otto was at the same age and is even better at 20 than Otto was at 21.

Defense will be the difference-maker for Brown. Otto was a great help defender but not very good as a one-on-one defender. Brown isn't even as good as Otto was defensively, but he's young still.

If Brown evolves into an above-average man defender, he will be exactly what this team (and every team) needs at the SF position.

For sure. But, if we look for the biggest differences between rookie Troy & the same kid this year, scoring stands out. He's raised all 3 of his numbers (2pt. %, 3 pt. % & FT. %) by a lot. & that's with a bump in usage too (not a big bump, but still...). Of course, he's still not a big time scorer -- both his points & his TS% remain a little below average. Still, a jump of 6 percentage points in TS% is nothing to sneeze at -- especially between rookie year & year 2, especially at his age, & especially given the fact that he's also up overall in all the rest of the boxscore stats.

You forgot to add in next year :D

Code: Select all

Age   TS%      3P%   DRB%   AST%   STL%   BLK%   TOV%
19   0.487   0.319   16.6   14.9   1.4    0.6    10.5
20   0.547   0.352   20.5   11.3   2.3    0.3    10.1
21   0.600   0.400   21.5   15.5   2.6    0.7     9.4

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