2018 NBA Draft Thread Pt. II

[Ruzious]

Butbutbutbutbut... Brown can play more positions than ZSmith. He probably can't play them well at all, but... he can play more positions!!!

[payitforward]

It just makes no sense to me. It’s not at all about hit/miss in the draft? it’s only about taking a player no higher than random Internet mock drafts projected him to go? No benefit of the doubt whatsoever to a team’s personal rankings because they’ve missed some in the past?

AND we can assume to know more than NBA GMs, not because of blind hatred for the guy (as evidence by 300 word essay rants every other post) but because we saw some random internet mock drafts. (That all had Williams going before 15)

I've tried to be jocular with you, Nat. But that was aimed at me, & now I'm tired of it.

To put it simply, most of the time you don't know what you're talking about, & this draft is a prime example. You are also totally gutless. Now, let me prove that point. Tell me Nat, & make it straight not a lie:

if you had been picking last Thursday evening when #15 came around whom would you have picked?

Would you have picked Zhaire Smith?
Would you have picked Troy Brown?
Would you have picked some other guy? & if so, which one?

I just called you out, rookie. Personally, I think you're a gutless punk who won't answer a straight question. But, who knows, maybe you'll prove me wrong about something. For once.

So, who would it have been, Nat? Answer now.

[closg00]

Case more than closed, I marvel at the tenacity Grunfeld/Momumental apologist.

[closg00]

DP

[80sballboy]

So, PIF, after going over every college number and I'm one that probably would have drafted Smith or probably R. Williams at the time, is it possible, that the Wiz chose Brown due to workouts? That Brown, as Candace Buckner mentioned to paraphrase, shined in three separate workouts competing against Z. Smith.

Trying to explain an EG draft is never easy but I'm guessing that's the main reason. His workouts, his interviews, and his character over the true numbers of Smith (character/injury issues with Rob Williams).

[NatP4]

It just makes no sense to me. It’s not at all about hit/miss in the draft? it’s only about taking a player no higher than random Internet mock drafts projected him to go? No benefit of the doubt whatsoever to a team’s personal rankings because they’ve missed some in the past?

AND we can assume to know more than NBA GMs, not because of blind hatred for the guy (as evidence by 300 word essay rants every other post) but because we saw some random internet mock drafts. (That all had Williams going before 15)

I've tried to be jocular with you, Nat. But that was aimed at me, & now I'm tired of it.

To put it simply, most of the time you don't know what you're talking about, & this draft is a prime example. You are also totally gutless. Now, let me prove that point. Tell me Nat, & make it straight not a lie:

if you had been picking last Thursday evening when #15 came around whom would you have picked?

Would you have picked Zhaire Smith?
Would you have picked Troy Brown?
Would you have picked some other guy? & if so, which one?

I just called you out, rookie. Personally, I think you're a gutless punk who won't answer a straight question. But, who knows, maybe you'll prove me wrong about something. For once.

So, who would it have been, Nat? Answer now.

Am I allowed to speak in hypotheticals and pretend I know more than NBA GMs? Based on what unfolded on draft night, I would’ve traded Oubre to Atlanta for 19&30 and picked Williams at 19 and Okobo at 30 and picked Zhaire Smith at our pick and sent him to philly for Mikel Bridges.

All the way leading up to the draft I was high on Bridges as a trade up option, and Okobo and Williams. On draft night, some last second red flag medical information was released on Williams.

This isn’t what we are debating, you yourself said you were happy with the Brown pick on draft night. There really is no debate here, I have simply pointed out that you and I both have no clue where Brown would’ve gone if we didn’t take him at 15.

Now proceed with the personal attacks.

[NatP4]

And picking a player over another player based solely on his college numbers is another terrible process.

[prime1time]

Why is Smith considered a better 3-poit shooter? He only took 40 3's this season. Brown took 110! Smith also shot 72% from the free throw line compared to Brown's 74%. Think about it. If you're only taking 40 3's in a season, that means you're taking wide open 3's for the most part. In terms of potential I think Brown has way more potential when it comes to 3-point shooting than Smith.

Good God...! I keep trying to put this horrible draft in the rear view mirror -- but then we get posts like the above.

Talk about rationalizing numbers to mean anything you want them to mean -- wow! Here are some actual numbers comparing the two actual players in what they actually did (not "potential" in the mind of prime1time)

Per 40 minutes,

Smith scored 15.9 points
Brown scored 14.5 points
Advantage Smith

Smith had a TS% of .618
Brown had a TS% of .532
Big advantage Smith

Smith got 3.1 offensive boards
Brown got 1.95 offensive boards
Big advantage Smith

Smith got 3.9 defensive boards
Brown got 5.95 defensive boards
Big advantage Brown

Smith had 1.6 Turnovers
Brown had 3.1 Turnovers
Big advantage Smith

Smith had 1.6 Steals
Brown had 2.0 Steals
Advantage Brown

Smith had 1.6 Blocks
Brown had .3 Blocks
Big advantage Smith

Smith committed 2.6 Fouls
Brown committed 2.9 Fouls
Small advantage Smith


Per 100 possessions,

Smith had a 128.7 Ortg.
Brown had a 105.7 Ortg.
Enormous advantage Smith

Smith had a 95.1 Drtg.
Brown had a 102.4 Drtg.
Significant advantage Brown

If these numbers didn't have players' names attached to them, none of you would have the slightest problem pointing the better performance. & that's why...

No pre-draft ranking had Brown as high as Smith -- none.
No post-draft grade has given the Wizards anything like the props for getting Brown that Philly has been given for getting Smith -- none.

And, finally...

No one on this board would have chosen Brown over Smith -- no one.

That includes you -- yeah, you, the guy reading this. You would have chosen Smith over Brown 100 times in 100 opportunities. Whatever you say now. & you would have been right to. So stop twisting numbers to get a different result & just accept the facts: we got a guy who wasn't as good & who no one thinks has the potential of the alternative. We can still hope he turns out great. But that's hope. A hope & a fact are 2 different things.

I'm perplexed as to how you can write so definitively. Was Zhaire Smith a lock for top 5 and I didn't know about it? All the numbers you cite matter to a degree, but we aren't debating who had the better single season. We are projecting who will have the better NBA career. I don't like guards that can't create for others, don't have confidence in their jumpers and who have subpar handles. So no, I wouldn't take Zhaire Smith over Brown. We have more than enough wings who have subpar handles and a lack of playmaking ability.

[prime1time]

Butbutbutbutbut... Brown can play more positions than ZSmith. He probably can't play them well at all, but... he can play more positions!!!

Nice straw man argument. The argument for Brown is that he does things that are hard to improve well: ball handling, b-ball iq and playmaking. He struggles at things that can be improved - i.e shooting and shot selection. Add to that he's 6'7 in shoes, long wing span and has a good head on his shoulders. I'm taking Brown over Smith every time. Smith strikes me as an athletic 3 and D guy at best. I never see him having the playmaking ability or the handles to be a lead guard.

[Ruzious]

Butbutbutbutbut... Brown can play more positions than ZSmith. He probably can't play them well at all, but... he can play more positions!!!

Nice straw man argument. The argument for Brown is that he does things that are hard to improve well: ball handling, b-ball iq and playmaking. He struggles at things that can be improved - i.e shooting and shot selection. Add to that he's 6'7 in shoes, long wing span and has a good head on his shoulders. I'm taking Brown over Smith every time. Smith strikes me as an athletic 3 and D guy at best. I never see him having the playmaking ability or the handles to be a lead guard.

I don't think it's a strawman at all. Is there a reason to think that Brown will be a lead guard? He was in HS, but was he last season in college? Not from what I've read. Brown could develop into a fine player at some point, but I think he's a 2/3 in the NBA - just like Smith is a 2/3. Btw, I will be rooting for you to be right and me wrong on who will be the better NBA player - Brown or Smith.

[DCZards]

No one on this board would have chosen Brown over Smith -- no one.

So freaking what!!!

Is Brown a bad pick simply because he was not the player that a bunch of guys on a message board—who never met, worked out or scouted Smith or Brown—thought the Zards should draft?

Does the fact that no one on this board would have taken Brown over Smith automatically mean that we shouldn’t like Brown or his game?

I've already admitted that Brown was not on my radar screen before the draft...but I like very much what I've read about him and the tape that I've seen on him.

[payitforward]

...you yourself said you were happy with the Brown pick on draft night...

No, actually, Nat, I did not say I was happy with the Brown pick on draft night.

Put it down to faulty memory which anyone can have. But I just want to make it clear -- I wasn't at all happy w/ the pick & didn't write anything to that effect.

I thought it was an awful choice, & I still do. I put it right with the decisions to pick Vesely & Singleton, the decision to sign FAs Harrington, Maynor, Nicholson, Smith, Mahinmi, the decision to let Booker walk getting nothing for him, decision to trade our R1 pick in '09 for Miller/Foye, the repeated decisions to sell R2 picks, etc. etc. etc.

[NatP4]

...you yourself said you were happy with the Brown pick on draft night...

No, actually, Nat, I did not say I was happy with the Brown pick on draft night.

Put it down to faulty memory which anyone can have. But I just want to make it clear -- I wasn't at all happy w/ the pick & didn't write anything to that effect.

I thought it was an awful choice, & I still do. I put it right with the decisions to pick Vesely & Singleton, the decision to sign FAs Harrington, Maynor, Nicholson, Smith, Mahinmi, the decision to let Booker walk getting nothing for him, decision to trade our R1 pick in '09 for Miller/Foye, the repeated decisions to sell R2 picks, etc. etc. etc.

I would look it up if I cared enough, you went on some rant about how you were fine with the pick because he seemed like a good kid and he’s 18 years old and blah blah blah. Oh hey look, another automated rant about 2009.

[payitforward]

No one on this board would have chosen Brown over Smith -- no one.

So freaking what!!!

Is Brown a bad pick simply because he was not the player that a bunch of guys on a message board—who never met, worked out or scouted Smith or Brown—thought the Zards should draft?

Does the fact that no one on this board would have taken Brown over Smith automatically mean that we shouldn’t like Brown or his game?

I've already admitted that Brown was not on my radar screen before the draft...but I like very much what I've read about him and the tape that I've seen on him.

Would it be responsive to the above for me to ask "Is Brown a good pick simply because you like what you've read about him & the tape of him you've seen?"

If not, then what relevance does your rhetorical question have?

Main point: we're not talking about whether Brown can/will be a good player, Zards. & we're not talking about whether we should or shouldn't "like Brown or his game."

We're talking about whether picking Troy Brown was a good use of the #15 pick in the 2018 draft. Period. That and nothing else.

[payitforward]

...you yourself said you were happy with the Brown pick on draft night...

No, actually, Nat, I did not say I was happy with the Brown pick on draft night.

Put it down to faulty memory which anyone can have. But I just want to make it clear -- I wasn't at all happy w/ the pick & didn't write anything to that effect.

I thought it was an awful choice, & I still do. I put it right with the decisions to pick Vesely & Singleton, the decision to sign FAs Harrington, Maynor, Nicholson, Smith, Mahinmi, the decision to let Booker walk getting nothing for him, decision to trade our R1 pick in '09 for Miller/Foye, the repeated decisions to sell R2 picks, etc. etc. etc.

I would look it up if I cared enough, you went on some rant about how you were fine with the pick because he seemed like a good kid and he’s 18 years old and blah blah blah. Oh hey look, another automated rant about 2009.

Congratulations, Nat. Instead of just responding something like "oh ok, I must have gotten that wrong," you made a jerk response.

Here's where it is at, Nat -- as a courtesy, I'll give you 1/2 hour to check in here & apologize. Simple & sincere. We all sometimes go too far, & for that matter you've read apologies by me.

If you do that, we're fine. If not, then in about 45 minutes I'm going to put you on Ignore.

[NatP4]

No, actually, Nat, I did not say I was happy with the Brown pick on draft night.

Put it down to faulty memory which anyone can have. But I just want to make it clear -- I wasn't at all happy w/ the pick & didn't write anything to that effect.

I thought it was an awful choice, & I still do. I put it right with the decisions to pick Vesely & Singleton, the decision to sign FAs Harrington, Maynor, Nicholson, Smith, Mahinmi, the decision to let Booker walk getting nothing for him, decision to trade our R1 pick in '09 for Miller/Foye, the repeated decisions to sell R2 picks, etc. etc. etc.

I would look it up if I cared enough, you went on some rant about how you were fine with the pick because he seemed like a good kid and he’s 18 years old and blah blah blah. Oh hey look, another automated rant about 2009.

Congratulations, Nat. Instead of just responding something like "oh ok, I must have gotten that wrong," you made a jerk response.

Here's where it is at, Nat -- as a courtesy, I'll give you 1/2 hour to check in here & apologize. Simple & sincere. We all sometimes go too far, & for that matter you've read apologies by me.

If you do that, we're fine. If not, then in about 45 minutes I'm going to put you on Ignore.

You said this:

“Ok, he seems like a good kid & a very good prospect -- esp. for an 18 year old. Can live with it....”

“jerk response” the irony..

I literally just asked you to put me on ignore. Good riddance

[DCZards]

We're talking about whether picking Troy Brown was a good use of the #15 pick in the 2018 draft. Period. That and nothing else.

I don't know whether picking Brown was a good use of the 15th pick. I guess that's something that time will tell. But I also don't know whether Z. Smith would have been a good use of the pick. Or if Brown or Smith will turn out to be the better NBA player.

To suggest, as you do, that it would have been alright to take Smith at 15 but it's not alright to take Brown at 15 makes no sense to me.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Butbutbutbutbut... Brown can play more positions than ZSmith. He probably can't play them well at all, but... he can play more positions!!!

...and, he's LONGER! (just as icky as it sounds; but that IS the fascination with EG and company. They like long)

They don't care about performance over time. They prefer (their) PERCEPTION OF POTENTIAL in that player...DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE IN THEIR MYOPIC MINDS NO ROOKIE CAN HELP...and, their max players are the shyt and shyznit.

Brown can be the Uber driver, too.

[payitforward]

For the record, here's how I reacted when we picked Brown:

Oh God....

and

...If we wanted Troy Brown, why didn't we trade down? I don't know what reality the Wizards FO lives in, I really don't. They seem to think their team is really great, just needs a little tweak here & there.

Nuts....

and

Robert Williams still on board.

Every single player after our pick so far looks to be a better player. In Brown's favor, he isn't even 19 yet. Still, honestly... I don't get it all the same.

[gambitx777]

I don't even hate the trade, i am just so confused how and why it happened. I mean we traded him and it didnt take a pick, I mean rivers might be a good back up if we keep him but im just confused.