RealGM

Bertans, Gafford, Bryant, Todd for Turner and filler?

I think that's good value for Indy in a Turner deal. Two versatile centers who should end up on value contracts to makeup for Bertans bad deal who may end up recovering some value over the next season or two, and then Todd just to try to increase the overall likelihood of the deal getting done. I try to get the deal done without offering Todd to begin with, and then see if it gets us over the top.

If it's a videogame I keep all 3 of Gaff, Bryant, Trez. In reality, I can't see Bryant being content with being a "break glass in case of emergency" center, considering how much potential he has to earn a big contract with high minutes and staying healthy. And I just don't see him playing the 4 as being something that works for us.

I think Turner's next deal would be about the same as he's making now annually. He's justified his current deal, but I don't think he's playing at a level that would see him making a significant jump. And Trez at this point is looking at the 14-16 million range imo. This is probably one of the only deals we could do to move Bertans without including a pick.

Way too much value to give up. I wouldn’t include Todd in any deal right now, unless it brings back another young player who could grow to become something.

Dark Faze wrote:Bertans, Gafford, Bryant, Todd for Turner and filler?

I think that's good value for Indy in a Turner deal. Two versatile centers who should end up on value contracts to makeup for Bertans bad deal who may end up recovering some value over the next season or two, and then Todd just to try to increase the overall likelihood of the deal getting done. I try to get the deal done without offering Todd to begin with, and then see if it gets us over the top.

If it's a videogame I keep all 3 of Gaff, Bryant, Trez. In reality, I can't see Bryant being content with being a "break glass in case of emergency" center, considering how much potential he has to earn a big contract with high minutes and staying healthy. And I just don't see him playing the 4 as being something that works for us.

I think Turner's next deal would be about the same as he's making now annually. He's justified his current deal, but I don't think he's playing at a level that would see him making a significant jump. And Trez at this point is looking at the 14-16 million range imo. This is probably one of the only deals we could do to move Bertans without including a pick.

I don't see the rationale for Indy. What in the world are they going to do with more centers?

I'd probably do it from our perspective as a consolidation trade. The chemistry is working now, but it's going to get dicey when Rui, Bertans and Bryant come back. A 3 for 1 deal makes sense. It doesn't hurt that Turner could share the floor with Harrell for a few minutes a game, justifying the cost of paying both guys 8 figures.

bsilver wrote:We may have jumped the gun in signing Gafford to a long term deal. There didn't seem to be a good reason to be in a hurry. Gafford is in a bit of a slump, which he hopefully get outs of, but we may find our two best centers are Bryant and Harrell. There's no way we have the money to have all three next year, unless Beal gets traded.

If we continue to play well, we should keep all three through the end of the season. We need the depth of a 3rd center. If we trade one, then we need a replacement. Someone like an Alex Len who doesn't need much playing time.

It would be a disappointment to have Harrell for only this year. He's probably our MVP.

I don't think we jumped the gun, but... for the first time, I'm not sure it's an either Trez or Bryant is out next season situation. I now wouldn't write off the possibility that Gafford is the odd man out for next season (via trade). Gafford still has significant value, but I don't see the same explosiveness as last season. As was said, he misses Westbrook's set-up passes, but it's more than that, imo. Otoh, it could very well be that he's playing through some soreness, and he'll soon look like last season.

As was said, if there's a coach that can minimize Bryant's defensive issues, it's probably WU2. And that could mean we don't have to rely on Gafford.

Ruzious wrote:As was said, if there's a coach that can minimize Bryant's defensive issues, it's probably WU2. And that could mean we don't have to rely on Gafford.

Two issues come to mind, one being we probably won't know what Bryant is as a player until far after the trade deadline, and two being that Gafford makes under 2 mil a season the next two years, which makes it difficult to bring back equivalent value in a deal due to the salary match.

We'll also likely be paying Brad an additional 15+ mil as of next year. It all adds up to a very high likelihood of Bryant walking for nothing, which to me is disastrous.

Dark Faze wrote:

Ruzious wrote:As was said, if there's a coach that can minimize Bryant's defensive issues, it's probably WU2. And that could mean we don't have to rely on Gafford.

Two issues come to mind, one being we probably won't know what Bryant is as a player until far after the trade deadline, and two being that Gafford makes under 2 mil a season the next two years, which makes it difficult to bring back equivalent value in a deal due to the salary match.

We'll also likely be paying Brad an additional 15+ mil as of next year. It all adds up to a very high likelihood of Bryant walking for nothing, which to me is disastrous.

Good points - though it's just this season and next season (not the next 2 seasons). He goes up to 12.4 in the 23/24 season. And the better to package him with Bertans.

Ruzious wrote:

Dark Faze wrote:Two issues come to mind, one being we probably won't know what Bryant is as a player until far after the trade deadline, and two being that Gafford makes under 2 mil a season the next two years, which makes it difficult to bring back equivalent value in a deal due to the salary match.

We'll also likely be paying Brad an additional 15+ mil as of next year. It all adds up to a very high likelihood of Bryant walking for nothing, which to me is disastrous.

Good points - though it's just this season and next season (not the next 2 seasons). He goes up to 12.4 in the 23/24 season. And the better to package him with Bertans.

I think there will be poison pill provision problems with trading Gafford until his new contract kicks in.

nate33 wrote:

Ruzious wrote:

Dark Faze wrote:Two issues come to mind, one being we probably won't know what Bryant is as a player until far after the trade deadline, and two being that Gafford makes under 2 mil a season the next two years, which makes it difficult to bring back equivalent value in a deal due to the salary match.

We'll also likely be paying Brad an additional 15+ mil as of next year. It all adds up to a very high likelihood of Bryant walking for nothing, which to me is disastrous.

Good points - though it's just this season and next season (not the next 2 seasons). He goes up to 12.4 in the 23/24 season. And the better to package him with Bertans.

I think there will be poison pill provision problems with trading Gafford until his new contract kicks in.

I'll try looking that up - I know it applies when the new contract starts the next year, but I'm not sure it does when it doesn't kick in until 2 more seasons.

FAH1223 wrote:Who elses misses TB?

Re-upping

I'm really looking forward to his return. He brings a dimension this team sorely lacks - the ability to play 5 out. It should provide Wes Jr. with a different look to break out of the team's offensive doldrums.

nate33 wrote:I'm really looking forward to his return. He brings a dimension this team sorely lacks - the ability to play 5 out. It should provide Wes Jr. with a different look to break out of the team's offensive doldrums.

I'm with you. Wes Jr.'s offense seems to be based in large part around the center handling the ball near the top of the key. Bryant is much better suited for that role than either Gafford or Harrell because, unlike Gaff and Trez, TB is a threat to make shots from that spot...as well as from the 3 pt line.

I think Rui will help in a similar manner given that among the Zards PFs he's probably the one with with the best midrange shot...which I guess qualifies as faint praise.

Listen up, all of you!

& I mean it!

I'm pretty excited with the talk of him getting stronger and quicker with his lower body. Bryant was bad defensively his first two seasons, but I thought he was pretty decent during the first 10 games of last season before the injury. If he can build upon that, he might evolve into a respectable defensive player. And a respectable defensive player who is also an extremely good offensive player will be a real asset.

Maybe it's a longshot, but I'm hoping they find a way to play Gafford and Bryant together. It'll be up to Bryant to show more skills (including initiating offense) and Gafford defending more on the perimeter.

Ruzious wrote:Maybe it's a longshot, but I'm hoping they find a way to play Gafford and Bryant together. It'll be up to Bryant to show more skills (including initiating offense) and Gafford defending more on the perimeter.

I don't think Gafford defends well on the perimeter at all.

People keep wanting to put one of our centers at PF under the assumption that we can still get their center production (rebounds, points, blocks) with them manning the PF role. It just doesn't work that way. Our centers produce a lot of points at high efficiency not just because they are talented scorers, but because they are in a role where they are always near the basket with spacing around them. If you move them to PF where they are tasked to provide the spacing for another center while getting fewer touches themselves, their numbers won't look nearly as good. Basically, Bryant at PF on offense won't produce like Bryant the center. He will produce more like Hachimura or Kuzma. Except neither he nor Gafford can guard opposing PF's as well as Hachimura or Kuzma can.

nate33 wrote:

Ruzious wrote:Maybe it's a longshot, but I'm hoping they find a way to play Gafford and Bryant together. It'll be up to Bryant to show more skills (including initiating offense) and Gafford defending more on the perimeter.

I don't think Gafford defends well on the perimeter at all.

I would have agreed with that last season - but not this season. In switches onto the other team's point guards, he's done a very good job - particularly in the Dallas game against a pretty good player. Tbh, I've missed a lot of their recent games. And he's obviously got the physical ability to defend on the perimeter.

Andddd, Unseld just said that Bryant will be back... in January. Well, laughing beats crying.