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Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj

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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#741 » by gambitx777 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:09 pm

Well cj miles is basically a trade chip to make a move work down the line and a way to get Howard off the team. what did cap space really do for us right now? We are under the tax and yes we could have kept Sato and not brought in ish but we don't know for sure what happened there. He might have wanted to go to Chicago . And we did him a solid, I do agree I would have rather bought out Howard and ate the dead money. Which isn't much. I also still hold the ish deal isn't bad I agree we should have just not done that deal. CJ miles plus Ian = 23 mill you could seemingly use that to take back a buyer's remorse contract/or a locker room explosion and get an asset in return. Or make a bigger deal work in some other way, get into a 3 or 4 team trade for cap relief. Also at the time Howard might not have been interested in Abit out cuz he had little other options till biggie went down.

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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#742 » by payitforward » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:53 am

1. Miles wasn't a way to get Howard off the team.
2. We could have waived Howard & paid him his salary. He had no voice in the matter.
3. I can't see how Miles is a trade chip. Maybe a couple of years ago.
4. "Not terrible" isn't exactly a high bar.
5. We are rebuilding. We don't want any "buyer's remorse" contracts.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#743 » by doclinkin » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:12 am

payitforward wrote:1. Miles wasn't a way to get Howard off the team.
2. We could have waived Howard & paid him his salary. He had no voice in the matter.
3. I can't see how Miles is a trade chip. Maybe a couple of years ago.
4. "Not terrible" isn't exactly a high bar.
5. We are rebuilding. We don't want any "buyer's remorse" contracts.


So either:
1. They made a dumb mistake. Or
2. They wanted CJ Miles for some reason. (Possibly see 1 above).

We’ve been around and around about it but I do think there was a plan this offseason for how to build a team. They may have blind spots or tunnel vision or preferences that may prove to be a flaw. But there were a few things that were bothersome in their summer moves. And given that they are so loudly talking about analytics, and given that some of the moves they made were loudwrong from a numbers perspective to layman stat analysts I wonder if they are intentional and indicate a plan.

Otherwise they are either fatal flaws, or the sign of a new GM getting his feet wet.

We like the savvy use of trade exceptions, trading the ghost of past bad moves to land talent and potential. The Rui pick earns some tactical demerits but he has proven a happy surprise for most on this board. But the moves we dislike:

A. No Sato. Ish instead.
B. No rebounding /defense.
C. Howard for Miles.

A. On the Sato/Ish conundrum. Evidence suggests Brooks likes penetrating guards. Some GMs have the philosophy of building a team around what the coach needs. Ish, Robinson, IT are drive and dish players. Even throw-in prospect Bonga is a straight ahead attacker who can handle and pass. John Wall is a drive and dish player.

Sato for all his size and ability lacks the first step and wiggle to pierce defenses with his dribble and force teams to collapse.

B. Zero moves were made to add defense and rebounding. (Ok one: Jemarrio Jones. If he makes the team). But given that we were at the bottom of the list in any stat sorting for defense or rebounding you have to figure this is intentional.

My theory: fans will watch a team that can score and lose. Teams will value and trade for players who put up numbers in the scoring column. Our best hope for future significance is not incremental improvement in what we do have. But a top end talent. It is fairly easy to build a good team by emphasizing defense and rebounding. But ‘good’ only gets you worse draft picks. We want to score big to keep fans engaged and excited about a young team, but still stay in the lotto hunt. Score big and suck lucky.

C. Yes we wanted rid of Howard. And maybe we are showing a hairtrigger when it comes to dumping bad character or poor chemistry. But right. We could have cut Howard and made other moves. The board instantly scratched their head at this puzzler. Given they were smart with trade exceptions why were they not with this trade?

The team must actually have wanted CJ Miles. They see value in adding a good character veteran to teach young players how to play the game. But teach who what? What skill set does CJ impart. Yes he’s late in his career. Does he still offer anything?

This was CJ in March of this year:



Like the press quotes regarding the Moritz Wagner trade, the team said about CJ that they’ve wanted him for a long time.

The young talent we added like Wagner, Bonga, and Hachimura need an outside shot to reach their best potential. Here is a vet who can move well without the ball and hit the catch and shoot. If he has anything left in his game it showed up in that game in March. Davis Bertans too is notable for his catch and shoot outside game. The FIBA game. Outside shooting Bigs. Movement off the ball.

Regardless of if it were intentional or the best moves the team could make, just picking up the guys who were available and muddling along, we will have to play that game since we have no other players. Shoot the long ball. Drive and dish.

Remains to be seen how it plays out. But. I can’t help but believe even these flawed moves are deliberate and intentional and part of an overall philosophy of how they want to play.

Otherwise our new GM lowkey sucks. And just thinks he’s smart. And can’t analyze his way out of a paper bag. And that would be terrible to contemplate. :)
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#744 » by pcbothwel » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:35 pm

Our 3 best young players (Brown, Bryant, Rui) all have question marks regarding there ability to hit 3's at a strong volume. Bertans and CJ at the very least provide some elite perimeter shooting to allow those guys to do what they do best.
I wasnt a fan of the trade, but wont kill it.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#745 » by BigA » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:02 pm

doclinkin wrote:Otherwise our new GM lowkey sucks. And just thinks he’s smart. And can’t analyze his way out of a paper bag. And that would be terrible to contemplate. :)

Meet the new boss.
Spoiler:
Same as the old boss.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#746 » by payitforward » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:40 am

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:1. Miles wasn't a way to get Howard off the team.
2. We could have waived Howard & paid him his salary. He had no voice in the matter.
3. I can't see how Miles is a trade chip. Maybe a couple of years ago.
4. "Not terrible" isn't exactly a high bar.
5. We are rebuilding. We don't want any "buyer's remorse" contracts.


So either:
1. They made a dumb mistake. Or
2. They wanted CJ Miles for some reason. (Possibly see 1 above).

We’ve been around and around about it but I do think there was a plan this offseason for how to build a team. They may have blind spots or tunnel vision or preferences that may prove to be a flaw. But there were a few things that were bothersome in their summer moves. And given that they are so loudly talking about analytics, and given that some of the moves they made were loudwrong from a numbers perspective to layman stat analysts I wonder if they are intentional and indicate a plan.

Otherwise they are either fatal flaws, or the sign of a new GM getting his feet wet.

We like the savvy use of trade exceptions, trading the ghost of past bad moves to land talent and potential. The Rui pick earns some tactical demerits but he has proven a happy surprise for most on this board. But the moves we dislike:

A. No Sato. Ish instead.
B. No rebounding /defense.
C. Howard for Miles.

A. On the Sato/Ish conundrum. Evidence suggests Brooks likes penetrating guards. Some GMs have the philosophy of building a team around what the coach needs. Ish, Robinson, IT are drive and dish players. Even throw-in prospect Bonga is a straight ahead attacker who can handle and pass. John Wall is a drive and dish player.

Sato for all his size and ability lacks the first step and wiggle to pierce defenses with his dribble and force teams to collapse.

B. Zero moves were made to add defense and rebounding. (Ok one: Jemarrio Jones. If he makes the team). But given that we were at the bottom of the list in any stat sorting for defense or rebounding you have to figure this is intentional.

My theory: fans will watch a team that can score and lose. Teams will value and trade for players who put up numbers in the scoring column. Our best hope for future significance is not incremental improvement in what we do have. But a top end talent. It is fairly easy to build a good team by emphasizing defense and rebounding. But ‘good’ only gets you worse draft picks. We want to score big to keep fans engaged and excited about a young team, but still stay in the lotto hunt. Score big and suck lucky.

C. Yes we wanted rid of Howard. And maybe we are showing a hairtrigger when it comes to dumping bad character or poor chemistry. But right. We could have cut Howard and made other moves. The board instantly scratched their head at this puzzler. Given they were smart with trade exceptions why were they not with this trade?

The team must actually have wanted CJ Miles. They see value in adding a good character veteran to teach young players how to play the game. But teach who what? What skill set does CJ impart. Yes he’s late in his career. Does he still offer anything?

This was CJ in March of this year:



Like the press quotes regarding the Moritz Wagner trade, the team said about CJ that they’ve wanted him for a long time.

The young talent we added like Wagner, Bonga, and Hachimura need an outside shot to reach their best potential. Here is a vet who can move well without the ball and hit the catch and shoot. If he has anything left in his game it showed up in that game in March. Davis Bertans too is notable for his catch and shoot outside game. The FIBA game. Outside shooting Bigs. Movement off the ball.

Regardless of if it were intentional or the best moves the team could make, just picking up the guys who were available and muddling along, we will have to play that game since we have no other players. Shoot the long ball. Drive and dish.

Remains to be seen how it plays out. But. I can’t help but believe even these flawed moves are deliberate and intentional and part of an overall philosophy of how they want to play.

Otherwise our new GM lowkey sucks. And just thinks he’s smart. And can’t analyze his way out of a paper bag. And that would be terrible to contemplate. :)

I'm glad Miles scored 33 points in a game this year. He was awful in every way (except FT%) on the year. The previous year as well. Plus, come on, once you set up the rhetorical framework that it's either absolutely horrible or it's somehow 'strategic,' it's hard to go anywhere thinking about it. Miles is an expiring vet going into his 15th year in the league! How sensible is it to think that he was brought in to be a part of building a team -- i.e. part of the future.

If it's just to put a vet on a team that just added what 8-9 guys who total next to no experience, that's a better reason than most. In either case, nbd.

In a sense, the same for Mo. Maybe they really really wanted him, but maybe more likely it was an opportunistic deal overall that netted us 3 prospects & a R2 pick for nothing. Good enough reason, & we get to see how many of them work out.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#747 » by doclinkin » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:19 am

payitforward wrote:Plus, come on, once you set up the rhetorical framework that it's either absolutely horrible or it's somehow 'strategic,'.



In all of this you always mistake me in thinking that _I_ think it's smart how they are building the team. I am saying I think I see what they think they are trying to do. It can be both sub-par and part of a strategy. Do I think CJ Miles is a good player? I do not. Did I ever think he was a good player? Not really. I only ever thought of him as 'eh, okay' and never noticed him in stats or in any game effect. To me he was the definitiion of just a guy, before he was a washed up version of himself.

Tommy however spoke highly of him saying they wanted him for a while. Tommy traded for him instead of cutting Howard flat out as most on the board wanted to do, after he put up a whole year of DNP--Giant Pain In The Ass. Myself I wanted to play him a bit then trade him when teams showed they needed rebounding and size and defense. He put up solid numbers when he was able to play.

But Tommy spoke well of CJ and detailed how they had watched him for a while.The same way Tommy spoke highly of Mo Wagner.

“C.J. is respected around the league for his defense, three-point shooting and leadership,” said Wizards Senior Vice President of Basketball Operations Tommy Sheppard. “All of those qualities appealed to us in making this deal and we look forward to him making a positive impact on our team.”


On Moritz Wagner, Wizards Senior Vice President of Basketball Operations Tommy Sheppard: “We were very intrigued with Mo during last year’s draft process and are looking forward to having Jemerrio and Isaac continue their development with our staff.”


These are the brief quotes. On radio he was more expansive about both. On radio he didn't even mention Bonga or Jones. Just raved about Wagner as having a great workout for the Wizards in the run up to that draft. On CJ Miles he had long respected him etc.

Here we scratch our head and puzzle why they did sub-optimal moves. I am saying it looks to me like either: they think they have a system. Or Tommy is similarly 'eh okay', but at least he nets us draft picks and ensures tank time and development for young players.

Or both.
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Re: Howard signs a 2 year deal for the tax MLE with a player option per Woj 

Post#748 » by payitforward » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:30 am

okay, fair enough. In any case, I'm pretty sure we've batted this back and forth enough that there's little left to say. Moreover, if I understand you, then I don't think we differ: you are suggesting that there's an "intention" in these moves, & of course I can't disagree with that. They didn't happen accidentally.

In a way, it may just be that I don't want to see too much intention (or too significant intention) in trading Howard for Miles, precisely because it seems so pointless, & I'd rather not find reasons to criticize Tommy Sheppard, I want to give him time in my mind. & since I can't stop myself from disliking the way he managed the draft, I don't want to add any other "dislikes."
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