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Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

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Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1 » by nate33 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:55 pm

Continued from here
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#2 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:49 pm

Carrying this forward...

Note: this is just a regular season win SWAG! Nothing more :D
Note: I have more playoff teams than there are slots - I am too much a wimp to cut one of them.
Note: I have us 5th - but we could easily be 4th to 9th. I wouldn't disagree with you on any of those spots.

Playoff teams - Probably win more games than we do
Boston, Philly, Toronto, Indy

========

Wizards

========

Playoff teams - homer in me says we will win more games
Charlotte, Detroit, Milwaukee, Miami

========

Cleveland, Atlanta, Orlando, Chicago, Brooklyn, NY
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#3 » by nate33 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:37 pm

I hate trying to predict how the Wizards will fare. They have the talent to be a 50+ win team, but they have the lack of discipline and a potential for dysfunction that could result in them winning 37 games.

For now, I'd say the safe bet is to assume the same ol' same ol'. They'll put together some impressive wins against good teams to show their upside potential. But they'll also lose a bunch of games to crappy teams because they have no discipline. I'm going with 46 wins and a 6th place finish. Boston, Philly, Toronto and Indy will be better. And at least one of Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte or Detroit will be better.

It's really tough to be a fan of this team. :nonono:
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#4 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:01 pm

nate33 wrote:I hate trying to predict how the Wizards will fare. They have the talent to be a 50+ win team, but they have the lack of discipline and a potential for dysfunction that could result in them winning 37 games.

For now, I'd say the safe bet is to assume the same ol' same ol'. They'll put together some impressive wins against good teams to show their upside potential. But they'll also lose a bunch of games to crappy teams because they have no discipline. I'm going with 46 wins and a 6th place finish. Boston, Philly, Toronto and Indy will be better. And at least one of Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte or Detroit will be better.

It's really tough to be a fan of this team. :nonono:

I hear you... if they played to their talent level (and deployed the right line-ups), I think they would be on the top end of the playoff bracket in the east. But history has a way of repeating itself. The prediction thread is going to be fascinating.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#5 » by MVPofDC » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:38 pm

nate33 wrote:I hate trying to predict how the Wizards will fare. They have the talent to be a 50+ win team, but they have the lack of discipline and a potential for dysfunction that could result in them winning 37 games.

For now, I'd say the safe bet is to assume the same ol' same ol'. They'll put together some impressive wins against good teams to show their upside potential. But they'll also lose a bunch of games to crappy teams because they have no discipline. I'm going with 46 wins and a 6th place finish. Boston, Philly, Toronto and Indy will be better. And at least one of Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte or Detroit will be better.

It's really tough to be a fan of this team. :nonono:


Thats exactly how I see the season going tbh. I also predicted we'd finish 6th in a different thread.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#6 » by NatP4 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:09 pm

Absurd depth

Lowry Wright
Green FVV Richardson
Kawhi OG Powell
Ibaka Siakam Miles
JV
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#7 » by Eli Babak » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:17 pm

Wow... Kawhi and Danny Green for DeRozan, Jakob Pöltl and top-20-protected 2019 1st. Toronto got MVP-caliber player and solid role player for a loser, ok center prospect and late 1st. Nice for them. Spurs really just wanted to dump him to east and keep fighting for a playoff spot.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#8 » by Dark Faze » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:19 pm

Gotta love Masai. He doesn't overvalue what he has and tries to push the envelope. We'll see if Kawhi can turn down the significant extra money that the Raptors can offer in order to play with a 35 year old LeBron.

The most significant threat will probably be the Clips. Jerry West messing around with near max cap space. He'll probably move Gallo and a first for an all-star at the deadline too.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#9 » by Illmatic12 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:21 pm

Eli Babak wrote:Wow... Kawhi and Danny Green for DeRozan, Jakob Pöltl and top-20-protected 2019 1st. Toronto got MVP-caliber player for a loser, ok center prospect and late 1st. Nice.

Raps have been trying to ditch Derozan for a while now. One of the worst playoff performers in the modern era.
Kawhi is 100% gone but this is basically a way of selling the fans on competing for 1 year then getting out of Derozan's salary.

I like this by Ujiri, cold-blooded move but needed to be done.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#10 » by Dark Faze » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:22 pm

Eli Babak wrote:Wow... Kawhi and Danny Green for DeRozan, Jakob Pöltl and top-20-protected 2019 1st. Toronto got MVP-caliber player and solid role player for a loser, ok center prospect and late 1st. Nice for them. Spurs really just wanted to dump him to east and keep fighting for a playoff spot.


That's ALL?! Man. Ernie Grunfeld goofed. Goofed hard.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#11 » by Illmatic12 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:22 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Gotta love Masai. He doesn't overvalue what he has and tries to push the envelope. We'll see if Kawhi can turn down the significant extra money that the Raptors can offer in order to play with a 35 year old LeBron.

The most significant threat will probably be the Clips. Jerry West messing around with near max cap space. He'll probably move Gallo and a first for an all-star at the deadline too.

If Kawhi cared about the money he would have taken supermax from SA.
He's 99.999% going to LA (Lakers or Clippers) , I would hope Toronto isn't under any delusion that this is more than a 1yr rental. They're going into this with their eyes wide open
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#12 » by MVPofDC » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:26 pm

Great deal for the Raptors. Must be nice to have a GM like Masai.

Why can't Ernie pull off deals like this :(
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#13 » by queridiculo » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:34 pm

MVPofDC wrote:Great deal for the Raptors. Must be nice to have a GM like Masai.

Why can't Ernie pull off deals like this :(


I'm shocked if this is true, DeRozan + Poeltl and a protected first?

Perhaps I'm overvaluing Porter a bit here, but this feels like a package Washington wouldn't have been able to top.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#14 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:42 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
Eli Babak wrote:Wow... Kawhi and Danny Green for DeRozan, Jakob Pöltl and top-20-protected 2019 1st. Toronto got MVP-caliber player for a loser, ok center prospect and late 1st. Nice.

Raps have been trying to ditch Derozan for a while now. One of the worst playoff performers in the modern era.
Kawhi is 100% gone but this is basically a way of selling the fans on competing for 1 year then getting out of Derozan's salary.

I like this by Ujiri, cold-blooded move but needed to be done.

It really is a great move by Toronto. The core they had was maxed out. They weren't going to win a title and Lowry wasn't getting any younger or any better. Ujiri pushed all of his chips on the table and has decided to go for it in 2018-19.

If it doesn't work out, all he did was accelerate the rebuild process by dumping the only big contract they had that lasts beyond the 2019-20 season. Basically, if Kawhi bolts, they'll just trade Lowry for a pick and an expiring in summer 2019. They can tank the 2019-20 season while rebuilding around their young players (Van Fleet, Powell, Anunoby and presumably a resigned Wright and Siakam) and set themselves up for a quick rebuild in 2020 with about $100M in cap room, the Lowry pick, and their own pick.

Ujiri gets it both ways. He gets a shot at a championship and he breaks up the currently doomed roster.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#15 » by JWizmentality » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:47 pm

Am I the only one that doesn't really see this moving the needle for Toronto? Even more so when you don't know what his health status is and reports are he's mad as hell. I don't see them getting past Boston.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#16 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:51 pm

MVPofDC wrote:Great deal for the Raptors. Must be nice to have a GM like Masai.

Why can't Ernie pull off deals like this :(

To be fair, I don't think Washington was in the same position as Toronto.

First of all, Toronto really should contend for a title with this move. If Kawhi is 100% healthy, they're in the 2nd tier of teams alongside Boston and Houston, with nobody else even close. They now also have two superb wing defenders that will help them match up with Golden State. Secondly, Toronto is well positioned for a quick tank and rebuild even if Kawhi departs. Indeed, that Derozan contract lasting until 2021 was a real headache for them. He's good enough to keep them out of the lottery, and it took up the cap room which prevented them from acquiring some good free agents. Now, he's gone and they can tank for one year after Kawhi departs and end up with insane cap room.

For the Wizards, I don't think a Porter for Kawhi swap would not put us in contention. We'd be better for sure but not good enough to beat Golden State (or even Boston, IMO). We're still the same old Wizards, with a horrible lack of discipline on defense and no players capable of scoring in crunch time in isolation plays (and a coach who continues to run isolation plays). Also, if Kawhi departed, it would really set us back. We'd have to try and find the talent to replace him while the clock ticks away at Wall's prime. A true rebuild isn't really an option.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#17 » by MVPofDC » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:56 pm

nate33 wrote:
MVPofDC wrote:Great deal for the Raptors. Must be nice to have a GM like Masai.

Why can't Ernie pull off deals like this :(

To be fair, I don't think Washington was in the same position as Toronto.

First of all, Toronto really should contend for a title with this move. If Kawhi is 100% healthy, they're in the 2nd tier of teams alongside Boston and Houston, with nobody else even close. They now also have two superb wing defenders that will help them match up with Golden State. Secondly, Toronto is well positioned for a quick tank and rebuild even if Kawhi departs. Indeed, that Derozan contract lasting until 2021 was a real headache for them. He's good enough to keep them out of the lottery, and it took up the cap room which prevented them from acquiring some good free agents. Now, he's gone and they can tank for one year after Kawhi departs and end up with insane cap room.

For the Wizards, I don't think a Porter for Kawhi swap would not put us in contention. We'd be better for sure but not good enough to be Golden State (or even Boston, IMO). We're still the same old Wizards, with a horrible lack of discipline on defense and no players capable of scoring in crunch time in isolation plays (and a coach who continues to run isolation plays). Also, if Kawhi departed, it would really set us back. We'd have to try and find the talent to replace him while the clock ticks away at Wall's prime. A true rebuild isn't really an option.


Well said for the reasons you stated. While the move would've made the Wizards better, we dont have the depth that Toronto has.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#18 » by Illmatic12 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:57 pm

nate33 wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
Eli Babak wrote:Wow... Kawhi and Danny Green for DeRozan, Jakob Pöltl and top-20-protected 2019 1st. Toronto got MVP-caliber player for a loser, ok center prospect and late 1st. Nice.

Raps have been trying to ditch Derozan for a while now. One of the worst playoff performers in the modern era.
Kawhi is 100% gone but this is basically a way of selling the fans on competing for 1 year then getting out of Derozan's salary.

I like this by Ujiri, cold-blooded move but needed to be done.

It really is a great move by Toronto. The core they had was maxed out. They weren't going to win a title and Lowry wasn't getting any younger or any better. Ujiri pushed all of his chips on the table and has decided to go for it in 2018-19.

If it doesn't work out, all he did was accelerate the rebuild process by dumping the only big contract they had that lasts beyond the 2019-20 season. Basically, if Kawhi bolts, they'll just trade Lowry for a pick and an expiring in summer 2019. They can tank the 2019-20 season while rebuilding around their young players (Van Fleet, Powell, Anunoby and presumably a resigned Wright and Siakam) and set themselves up for a quick rebuild in 2020 with about $100M in cap room, the Lowry pick, and their own pick.

Ujiri gets it both ways. He gets a shot at a championship and he breaks up the currently doomed roster.

Yep. They probably would have had to tank anyways after this season. There’s really no good way to initiate a tank and please everyone in your fanbase, but potentially making a big run this year could buy Ujiri some good will while they’re going through their down years.

I really like the pragmatism of Masai Ujiri, I wish he was the Wizards GM.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#19 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:00 pm

JWizmentality wrote:Am I the only one that doesn't really see this moving the needle for Toronto? Even more so when you don't know what his health status is and reports are he's mad as hell. I don't see them getting past Boston.

Certainly his attitude is a big question mark.

But if he does buy in, I think it moves the needle big time. Toronto's Achilles heel has always been it's inability to defend on the wings. Not only did they add the best wing defender in a generation, but they added another quality starter who is still one of the better wing defenders in the league. On paper, the roster is perfect for today's game. They have an elite two-way player in Kawhi who can create his shot or play within the system. Another very good two-way player in Lowry who can create a shot or play within the system. They have mobile, defensive-minded 3&D players up and down the roster in Green, Wright, Anunoby and Ibaka plus another good mobile defender in Siakam. They have a floor-stretching 3-point assassin in Miles. And they have an instant-offense irrational-confidence clutch scorer off the bench in Van Fleet. They also have a traditional low post big in JV who can match up with the few traditional bigs or beat up on a team lacking one.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#20 » by dckingsfan » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:06 pm

Agreed, for one year at least - if Leonard plays - they get better and have a shot in the east. It will be interesting to see what they do for the last couple of spots on the roster.

Code: Select all

Player          Age   2018-19
Kyle Lowry      32   $31,000,000
Serge Ibaka     28   $21,666,667
Kawhi Leonard   27   $20,099,189
J Valanciunas   26   $16,539,326
Danny Green     31   $10,000,000
Norman Powell   25   $9,367,200
Fred VanVleet   24   $9,055,005
C.J. Miles      31   $8,333,333
Delon Wright    26   $2,536,898
OG Anunoby      21   $1,952,760
M Richardson    22   $1,569,360
Pascal Siakam   24   $1,544,951
                    $133,664,689

Code: Select all

Lowry     VanVleet   Wright
Green     Miles      Richardson
Leonard   Anunoby   
Ibaka     Siakam   
Valanciunas      

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