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Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#921 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:05 am

TGW wrote:
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:We have the wrong Thunder cast off.

I’d take Billy D over Brooks any day.

This is where we can test if Ted and co are actually serious about winning. Nate M or Donovan would make us much better, immediately.


Right now, I think Leonsis is about saving dollars, and Brooks is being paid so handsomely that it's almost impossible to move on from him.

Typical mom n' pop operation.


If Brooks signed for 5 years then as of this April 2020 he’s been paid 4 years.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brooksc01c.html

He’s won less games each season and clearly only won as a coach when he had Uber talent at OKC.
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JALEN SMITH and either Xavier Tillman, Paul Reed, Udoka Azubuike, or TYLER BEY (if they get lucky and he slips in the draft).
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#922 » by payitforward » Sat Oct 3, 2020 2:20 am

Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#923 » by Ruzious » Sat Oct 3, 2020 10:28 am

payitforward wrote:Doc Rivers is the new coach of the Sixers:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30018563/sources-doc-rivers-agrees-deal-coach-philadelphia-76ers

Any thoughts...?

I have a question. Why is this going to turn out any better for Philly than things have turned out for the very talented Clippers teams year after year? And if he can't trade for Harden, is Austin Rivers option B?
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#924 » by payitforward » Sat Oct 3, 2020 1:41 pm

Few & far between are the head coaches that make a significant difference, positive or negative, in their teams' records. Some do, of course; basically, however, an NBA team is about as good as its players.

Management, OTOH -- owners & FO -- can screw things up in a hurry. Goes without saying that, as in every facet of life, it's a lot easier & quicker to screw things up than it is to make things better: can't ask for a better example than Philly.

Of course, a team that's taking advantage of screw-ups by a team like Philly can get better in a hurry -- viz. Miami...
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#925 » by nate33 » Sat Oct 3, 2020 2:58 pm

payitforward wrote:Few & far between are the head coaches that make a significant difference, positive or negative, in their teams' records. Some do, of course; basically, however, an NBA team is about as good as its players.

Management, OTOH -- owners & FO -- can screw things up in a hurry. Goes without saying that, as in every facet of life, it's a lot easier & quicker to screw things up than it is to make things better: can't ask for a better example than Philly.

Of course, a team that's taking advantage of screw-ups by a team like Philly can get better in a hurry -- viz. Miami...

Doc Rivers is an NBA-caliber coach who doesn't suck, but he's not a difference-maker. He's no Spoelstra, Nurse, Popovich, Carlisle or Stevens.

The question is, was Brett Brown a truly terrible coach so that Doc will be an upgrade? Or was Brett Brown also a mediocre, NBA-caliber coach, in which case I don't think replacing him with Doc will matter much.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#926 » by payitforward » Sat Oct 3, 2020 8:39 pm

Yes, that's what I meant to say about Doc Rivers. & no, I don't think Brown was a truly terrible coach -- or, to put it another way, just as there are few coaches who can make a team significantly better, there are also few coaches who make their teams significantly worse.

The truth is that the Sixers roster is not as good as some people think. 2 key mistakes are to imagine that Tobias Harris is a plus player at all, & that Al Horford is a plus player at this stage of his career.

But the biggest mistake is over-valuing Joel Embiid. That's easy to do, since he is such a magnificent player in so many ways.

Embiid gets over-valued to a degree, because no one notices how much he turns the ball over. No one factors in those extra TOs when assessing his offensive impact. But, in fact, those TOs are a part of his offensive impact & do need to be accounted for.

Embiid is a high-volume scorer. & his TS% is well above average (especially given his usage) -- but not great. But, if you factor in the number of his turnovers above the average, then the overall result of his offense is still high volume, but it's no longer efficient.

If you take an average big & calculate his eFG% as if his turnovers were simply missed shots rebounded by the other team, the result is 46% efficiency. Do the same for Embiid, & the result is 42.6% efficiency. Per 40 minutes last year, Embiid accounted for just over 25 shots plus turnovers. Really, the best thing about him offensively was that he got to the line a whole lot & shot FTs well.

Overall, Philly's offense this year was below average -- largely b/c their volume shooters weren't high % shooters. I can't see how Brown can be held responsible.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#927 » by FAH1223 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:28 am

payitforward wrote:Yes, that's what I meant to say about Doc Rivers. & no, I don't think Brown was a truly terrible coach -- or, to put it another way, just as there are few coaches who can make a team significantly better, there are also few coaches who make their teams significantly worse.

The truth is that the Sixers roster is not as good as some people think. 2 key mistakes are to imagine that Tobias Harris is a plus player at all, & that Al Horford is a plus player at this stage of his career.

But the biggest mistake is over-valuing Joel Embiid. That's easy to do, since he is such a magnificent player in so many ways.

Embiid gets over-valued to a degree, because no one notices how much he turns the ball over. No one factors in those extra TOs when assessing his offensive impact. But, in fact, those TOs are a part of his offensive impact & do need to be accounted for.

Embiid is a high-volume scorer. & his TS% is well above average (especially given his usage) -- but not great. But, if you factor in the number of his turnovers above the average, then the overall result of his offense is still high volume, but it's no longer efficient.

If you take an average big & calculate his eFG% as if his turnovers were simply missed shots rebounded by the other team, the result is 46% efficiency. Do the same for Embiid, & the result is 42.6% efficiency. Per 40 minutes last year, Embiid accounted for just over 25 shots plus turnovers. Really, the best thing about him offensively was that he got to the line a whole lot & shot FTs well.

Overall, Philly's offense this year was below average -- largely b/c their volume shooters weren't high % shooters. I can't see how Brown can be held responsible.


Crazy how Philly let this guy go

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#928 » by payitforward » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:32 pm

Terrible owners. Bad FO. I know -- let's fire Brett Brown. Nothing Philly does is a surprise since taking away Hinkie's authority then firing him.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#929 » by Dat2U » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:35 pm

payitforward wrote:Few & far between are the head coaches that make a significant difference, positive or negative, in their teams' records. Some do, of course; basically, however, an NBA team is about as good as its players.

Management, OTOH -- owners & FO -- can screw things up in a hurry. Goes without saying that, as in every facet of life, it's a lot easier & quicker to screw things up than it is to make things better: can't ask for a better example than Philly.

Of course, a team that's taking advantage of screw-ups by a team like Philly can get better in a hurry -- viz. Miami...


Miami, Boston, Toronto... 3 of the best coaches in the league. 3 teams with similar talent. I don't think you win any playoff series against those teams with Scott Brooks as coach unless there's a significant talent gap. Philly & Milwaukee were both likely more talented but were severely outcoached in the playoffs.

A good coach might not be able take a 35 win team to 50 wins but a good coach can be the difference b/w a postseason run and a early playoff exit.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#930 » by Kanyewest » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Dat2U wrote:
payitforward wrote:Few & far between are the head coaches that make a significant difference, positive or negative, in their teams' records. Some do, of course; basically, however, an NBA team is about as good as its players.

Management, OTOH -- owners & FO -- can screw things up in a hurry. Goes without saying that, as in every facet of life, it's a lot easier & quicker to screw things up than it is to make things better: can't ask for a better example than Philly.

Of course, a team that's taking advantage of screw-ups by a team like Philly can get better in a hurry -- viz. Miami...


Miami, Boston, Toronto... 3 of the best coaches in the league. 3 teams with similar talent. I don't think you win any playoff series against those teams with Scott Brooks as coach unless there's a significant talent gap. Philly & Milwaukee were both likely more talented but were severely outcoached in the playoffs.

A good coach might not be able take a 35 win team to 50 wins but a good coach can be the difference b/w a postseason run and a early playoff exit.


Philadelphia was not more talented without Simmons though this season against the Celtics. I guess it was close in terms of talent between the Raptors/76ers last season, although to be fair the Raptors were taken to 7 games.

I think the Bucks were outcoached in games 1-4 - although I think Bud did enough in games 5-6 to put his team in a position to win against the Heat but his players didn't execute.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#931 » by doclinkin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:01 pm

Oof. Dave Joerger with Doc Rivers would be like Doc and Thibodeax in Boston. Player motivator and defensive accountability/innovator. A motivated and defensively focused Simmons/Embiid would be tough.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#932 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:55 pm

Memo to Ted.

Throw every dollar you have at Morley. Invent a role for him. President of All Things Bouncy or something like that.

Just get him in the building
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#933 » by nate33 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:47 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:Memo to Ted.

Throw every dollar you have at Morley. Invent a role for him. President of All Things Bouncy or something like that.

Just get him in the building

I'm not so sure. I assume you are talking about Daryl Morey. I think he was an innovative GM who was one of the first to vigorously apply analytics to overcome institutional bias. But I think the rest of the league has caught up with him at this point. Look at what he has done recently in Houston and it's far less impressive.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#934 » by payitforward » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:49 pm

Interesting question: can a GM do it twice?

I can see where it would be difficult. Even sustaining it long-term seems to be. Has to be possible of course.

Well... Pat Riley.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#935 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:24 am

payitforward wrote:Interesting question: can a GM do it twice?

I can see where it would be difficult. Even sustaining it long-term seems to be. Has to be possible of course.

Well... Pat Riley.


Morey’s gotta be hungry, having put together so many teams in the West that easily would have made the finals from the East.

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#936 » by payitforward » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:24 pm

Morey changed his industry. He runs a big annual conference at Harvard. He's a major big deal who should be viewed as floating above the day to day NBA.

He has said that he would like to run another NBA franchise "some day," but I'd say there is no chance he'd be interested in that kind of job right now. Why would he be?

Not to mention that hiring the guy who has already proven everything he has to prove rarely works out well. For sure, hire the guy who is "hungry," but that's not Daryl Morey.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#937 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:49 pm

This is kind of nice:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30140062/former-gm-daryl-morey-thanks-houston-rockets-praises-james-harden-ad

Reminds me of the similar tribute Ernie Grunfeld gave our franchise upon leaving....
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#938 » by FAH1223 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:39 am

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#939 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Today 3:13 am

payitforward wrote:Morey changed his industry. He runs a big annual conference at Harvard. He's a major big deal who should be viewed as floating above the day to day NBA.

He has said that he would like to run another NBA franchise "some day," but I'd say there is no chance he'd be interested in that kind of job right now. Why would he be?

Not to mention that hiring the guy who has already proven everything he has to prove rarely works out well. For sure, hire the guy who is "hungry," but that's not Daryl Morey.


I guess he was interested.

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#940 » by payitforward » Today 4:21 pm

I guess he was! :lol:

You were right, & I was wrong. Hell, the deal was probably in place when he resigned from Houston! 8-)

Have you seen any news about Elton Brand -- is he being retained in some capacity?

Morey's hiring is bad for us in multiple ways. Elton Brand liked to trade R2 picks; I don't think Morey will be as amenable. :(
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