Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Making a series of bad decisions and then having to face the consequences of them is not a mental health issue.

The hell it isn't. Trust me it is a sign that you might be mentally ill when decisions one makes are dubious, flat bizarre ,or bad.

On this one I'm what they call a mental health care specialist certified by the state of Hawaii Department of hell. I'm a guy that has been there and done that for a long time because of a mental health diagnosis from way back in 1995. I'm no expert but I do think I lived apart and I have the training to say things expertly.

Rui Hachimura just came off of the Olympics and something's going on with his brother and we don't know what's going on with him or his family. Not to speculate about the onset of a thing like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder can be extremely traumatic. People on the outside looking in have no freaking clue. Another Factor could be that really has all kinds of new teammates many of whom are taking his minutes. That can be a stressor. New coach and new pecking order but I don't think that's what kept him out of camp.

I'm just a guy speculating on a message board. Obviously, I can't know the true story. Maybe I'm wrong, but from the clues I see, I do think Simmons is faking it. And I say this in an effort to support providing mental health services to deserving NBA players. If Simmons is cynically exploiting the mental health provisions of the CBA for personal gain, he is undermining the system that provides mental health support for other NBA players.

I thought...

You're thinking Rui is faking it.

Simmons? Your guess is as good as mine. I think he is angry and hurt and wants out of Philly. He could be trying to force their hand but not have his contract voided. Mental health issues would and could be a tactic.





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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The hell it isn't. Trust me it is a sign that you might be mentally ill when decisions one makes are dubious, flat bizarre ,or bad.

On this one I'm what they call a mental health care specialist certified by the state of Hawaii Department of hell. I'm a guy that has been there and done that for a long time because of a mental health diagnosis from way back in 1995. I'm no expert but I do think I lived apart and I have the training to say things expertly.

Rui Hachimura just came off of the Olympics and something's going on with his brother and we don't know what's going on with him or his family. Not to speculate about the onset of a thing like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder can be extremely traumatic. People on the outside looking in have no freaking clue. Another Factor could be that really has all kinds of new teammates many of whom are taking his minutes. That can be a stressor. New coach and new pecking order but I don't think that's what kept him out of camp.

I'm just a guy speculating on a message board. Obviously, I can't know the true story. Maybe I'm wrong, but from the clues I see, I do think Simmons is faking it. And I say this in an effort to support providing mental health services to deserving NBA players. If Simmons is cynically exploiting the mental health provisions of the CBA for personal gain, he is undermining the system that provides mental health support for other NBA players.

What clues do you see. I see a kid who very clearly didn't want to play for a team and then the team decided they were going to play tough and acted shocked when the kid didn't handle it well. It absolutely could be Simmons taking advantage of the situation but I don't actually see any clues about it being so.

What I do see are clues that the team completely ignores mental health stuff and didn't stop to think that it might be an issue, or just plain didn't care if it might be. That's the part that should leave people baffled here. What did Morey think he had to gain handling this the way he did? Did he really learn nothing from any of his past conflicts?

And the fun part is the entire franchise is taking after his lead and the public scrutiny is everywhere. Embiid makes a horribly reckless play on Josh Giddey in a game already in hand and the Sixers commentator says he doesn't care if Giddey is okay or not? That's going viral. Management has made it clear they only care about the health of certain guys which rings similar to player complaints that Harden and Dwight were treated differently by the team back in the day.

The free throws and fear of taking a shot show me SOMETHING different. Simmons is sensitive.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm just a guy speculating on a message board. Obviously, I can't know the true story. Maybe I'm wrong, but from the clues I see, I do think Simmons is faking it. And I say this in an effort to support providing mental health services to deserving NBA players. If Simmons is cynically exploiting the mental health provisions of the CBA for personal gain, he is undermining the system that provides mental health support for other NBA players.

What clues do you see.

The fact that he didn't "play the mental health card" until he exhausted all other options to get paid.

He first tried to get paid despite now showing up to training camp. Morey told him to pound sand.
He then tried to get paid by showing up at practice but not participating. Morey told him to pound sand.
He then tried to get paid by making vague references to a sore back. Morey told him to pound sand.
Now, he is alleging mental health issues - something that is close to impossible to verify.

If Simmons had stated that he had mental health issues over the summer given all the stress and pressure from the Finals and from his treatment by his teammates, fans and media, that would have made sense and I would have been sympathetic. But that's not how it happened.

I'm just saying his pattern of behavior is causing my bulls**t radar to smoke.

I do agree with you that Morey and the Sixers played a part in this. They definitely have done a poor job of managing relations with Simmons and they deserve to suffer the consequences of being forced to trade him at pennies on the dollar.

You could be Radar O'Reilly right, nate33.



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[nate33]

I thought...

You're thinking Rui is faking it.

Simmons? Your guess is as good as mine. I think he is angry and hurt and wants out of Philly. He could be trying to force their hand but not have his contract voided. Mental health issues would and could be a tactic.

I think Rui's issues are legit. And I think he approached it in the right manner, communicating with the team through proper channels. I hope he is getting the help he needs.

[Illuminaire]

It's hard to tell with mental health issues. They effect how you think and feel about the world, which means that they shape you over time. They change your perspective on life, alter your personality, and effect how you deal with stressful events.

You can also develop issues after experiencing trauma brought on by poor life choices. It's not just inherent brain chemistry or external abuse.

With Simmons, I see a messy swirl of many things. He appears to possess a distinct lack of grit. I don't say that because he refused to take a dunk. I observe this from a long track record of shying away from doing the hard things that would make him feel temporarily uncomfortable. He's skipped off-season workouts with team trainers, ignored coaches' advice and requests, and basically not improved at all despite having tremendous physical gifts and instincts for the game.

Lack of ability to deal with discomfort can just be a sign of weak-mindedness, or having a skewed value system. I think there are some signs of that. But those same things can feed from (and into) chronic mental illness. Mental issues can be like having a weak muscle or a torn rotator cuff - you look fine, you look strong, but you can't move your damned arm.

Now, there are ways to positively impact mental illness and get healthier. But just like a torn rotator cuff, they aren't something most people can do on their own. You need a trainer with experience to guide you, and most people need positive supporters to cheer them on through rehab as they do hard, daily work to strengthen and heal parts of themselves that barely function, or hurt like hell when they do.

There is also a stigma about mental health "excuses" in any profession where hard work and rigorous effort are the norm. It's hard to talk about issues with teammates when most of them will just go "dude, spend more time in the gym."

This is all to say, I wouldn't be surprised if Simmons has longstanding struggles, and that he's dealt with these mental struggles the same way he's dealt with his basketball ones - by pulling inward, only trusting immediate family, and avoiding anything that made him feel uncomfortable. I don't say that in a condemning way. That's not a healthy way of dealing with such things, but it is normal, and human.

And at the end of the day, that's what Ben Simmons is. Normal and human and a little bit broken.

How much of the broken part is his responsibility, only God knows.

[Ruzious]

I tend to think that problems like the Simmons case could have been solved with better communications. I'm amazed that an organization worth as much as Philly's handled it so poorly - and certainly Simmons deserves blame. Philly screwed it up first - with both their head coach and franchise player basically blaming Simmons for their playoffs failure. They then both tried to fix it - but with the media - not by meeting with Simmons and apologizing to him. It was a sortof passive aggressive fix attempt - that was NEVER going to work with a player with a fragile ego.

[gambitx777]

If Simmons was going to fake something, it seems a physical issue would help him more. Since his big problem is Philly still demanding a ransom. He probably wouldn't even need to full fake something, just play up the effect of some nagging issue.

Short of attempts to avoid criminal responsibility, I can't think of many examples of faking mental health issues.

That's actually not true. The CBA has mental health clauses baked into it. Not only that but it's much more socially acceptable to question a physical injury that it is to question mental health issues that may or may not be there. Either way he's off Scott free and doesn't get fined any more and gets paid.

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[Kanyewest]

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[Kanyewest]

On the athletic NBA podcast, they seemed to heavily imply that Simmons isn't mentally unwell; rather that he's playing this position to keep getting his paychecks. First, they reported that Simmons didn't know he was going to be fined for not showing up. So that's why Simmons suddenly showed up; Rich Paul (his agent) didn't even know that he was going to show up that day according to the Athletic. Also, 24 hours before Simmons said he was "mentally not ready" he claimed to have a back injury that would not allow him to show up to practice shortly after being kicked out of practice by Doc Rivers. Note this is the 2nd time Rivers has ever thrown anyone out of the practice (the other time was Rondo throwing a water bottle). They are crediting Rich Paul as giving a good cover as since that statement Simmons has not been fined.

[Illuminaire]

On the athletic NBA podcast, they seemed to heavily imply that Simmons isn't mentally unwell; rather that he's playing this position to keep getting his paychecks. First, they reported that Simmons didn't know he was going to be fined for not showing up. So that's why Simmons suddenly showed up; Rich Paul (his agent) didn't even know that he was going to show up that day according to the Athletic. Also, 24 hours before Simmons said he was "mentally not ready" he claimed to have a back injury that would not allow him to show up to practice shortly after being kicked out of practice by Doc Rivers. Note this is the 2nd time Rivers has ever thrown anyone out of the practice (the other time was Rondo throwing a water bottle). They are crediting Rich Paul as giving a good cover as since that statement Simmons has not been fined.

The timing and order of events doesn't look good for Simmons.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and if he has real issues I deeply sympathize and wish him well. But man, he makes it hard to trust.

[closg00]

Continuing the Jalen Smith discussion, do you think multiple teams will be trying to grab him like the Lakers grabbed Doumbouya?

[gambitx777]

Does anyone else think that NO should move Zion. I think he's in danger of being the next Greg Oden and I personally feel they should move him now rather than wait for people to figure that out or be forced to pay him and have a Ben Simmons situation .

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[GoneShammGone]

Per Wiretap: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264604/Marcus-Smart-Says-Bostons-Late-Game-Struggles-Start-With-Jayson-Tatum-Jaylen-Brown

I'm sensing a Celtic meltdown on the way. Wonder if they will reach the point that they will consider moving on from the Brown/Tatum pairing?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Continuing the Jalen Smith discussion, do you think multiple teams will be trying to grab him like the Lakers grabbed Doumbouya?

DNP-CD with Ayton out. Kaminsky and Javale McGee each played significant minutes and each produced big numbers in a Suns win.

I'm guessing Jalen Smith is going to be released soon.

[closg00]

Continuing the Jalen Smith discussion, do you think multiple teams will be trying to grab him like the Lakers grabbed Doumbouya?

DNP-CD with Ayton out. Kaminsky and Javale McGee each played significant minutes and each produced big numbers in a Suns win.

I'm guessing Jalen Smith is going to be released soon.

I didn't catch all of the discussion, what happened with Jalen over there?

[queridiculo]

Continuing the Jalen Smith discussion, do you think multiple teams will be trying to grab him like the Lakers grabbed Doumbouya?

DNP-CD with Ayton out. Kaminsky and Javale McGee each played significant minutes and each produced big numbers in a Suns win.

I'm guessing Jalen Smith is going to be released soon.

I didn't catch all of the discussion, what happened with Jalen over there?

It's either about the money, or the kid flat out cannot hack it.

The latter is hard to believe. He was raw coming out but he had the tools, and he doesn't have a reputation as a knucklehead.

I'd love to see the Wizards take a flyer next year.

[nate33]

Per Wiretap: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264604/Marcus-Smart-Says-Bostons-Late-Game-Struggles-Start-With-Jayson-Tatum-Jaylen-Brown

I'm sensing a Celtic meltdown on the way. Wonder if they will reach the point that they will consider moving on from the Brown/Tatum pairing?

I'd trade Beal for Jaylen Brown right now. We'd get younger and move even further away from the "star and role players" model.

[Ruzious]

Per Wiretap: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264604/Marcus-Smart-Says-Bostons-Late-Game-Struggles-Start-With-Jayson-Tatum-Jaylen-Brown

I'm sensing a Celtic meltdown on the way. Wonder if they will reach the point that they will consider moving on from the Brown/Tatum pairing?

I'd trade Beal for Jaylen Brown right now. We'd get younger and move even further away from the "star and role players" model.

That'd seem like somewhat of a panic move by Boston - but certainly possible - especially if they think that'll make Tatum happy and more productive - and they do have a rookie GM.

[Frichuela]

Per Wiretap: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264604/Marcus-Smart-Says-Bostons-Late-Game-Struggles-Start-With-Jayson-Tatum-Jaylen-Brown

I'm sensing a Celtic meltdown on the way. Wonder if they will reach the point that they will consider moving on from the Brown/Tatum pairing?

I'd trade Beal for Jaylen Brown right now. We'd get younger and move even further away from the "star and role players" model.

Yep. I would be severely tempted with that trade. A Dinwiddie/KCP/Brown/Kuzma (or Rui)/Gafford line up could be quite powerful. And Brown's ability to play the 2 would allow us to play a Dinwiddie/Brown/Deni/Kuzma (or Rui)/Gafford line up too with tons of size.

[Frichuela]

Problem with a Brown/Beal trade is I don't see Ted giving the all clear...especially given our strong start this season...One of those instances when the right play is very unlikely endorsed by the powers that be...