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Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1041 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:25 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
nate33 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:I don't think it matters. I think Miami would just trade for him anyway using a bunch of NG contracts and picks and such.

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I don't see how the scrape together $27M in salary to trade to Milwaukee and convince Milwaukee to take it on. I guess your talking about something like opting in on the team options for Dragic and Leonard and trading them along with incentive (Herro and a pick) to Milwaukee for Giannis. Would Milwaukee pay $25M for Herro and a pick? Note that Miami doesn't have an unencumbered 1st round pick until 2027. And with Giannis and Bam around, that's not going to be a very high pick.
Dragic has almost $20 mil in an NG contract for next season, iirc. That's most of the way there already. Giving up 3 firsts and 2 swaps, hell, and toss in some rookie contracts to fill the salary gap and the Bucks would be fine with it if Giannis makes it clear he's leaving either way.

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They can't give up 3 firsts and 2 swaps. They don't have any unencumbered picks until 2027.

A trade deadline deal might be possible where it's the expiring contracts of Dragic, plus Herro, Achiuwa and the 2027 1st (because Milwaukee wouldn't be taking on an extra $25M in 2022 salary). But Giannis would have to make it known then that he isn't resigning.

I just don't see how Miami makes the deal next summer with Milwaukee agreeing to taking on a massive filler salary in 2022 just to get Herro and a late 2027 pick.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1042 » by I_Like_Dirt » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:34 pm

nate33 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
nate33 wrote:I don't see how the scrape together $27M in salary to trade to Milwaukee and convince Milwaukee to take it on. I guess your talking about something like opting in on the team options for Dragic and Leonard and trading them along with incentive (Herro and a pick) to Milwaukee for Giannis. Would Milwaukee pay $25M for Herro and a pick? Note that Miami doesn't have an unencumbered 1st round pick until 2027. And with Giannis and Bam around, that's not going to be a very high pick.
Dragic has almost $20 mil in an NG contract for next season, iirc. That's most of the way there already. Giving up 3 firsts and 2 swaps, hell, and toss in some rookie contracts to fill the salary gap and the Bucks would be fine with it if Giannis makes it clear he's leaving either way.

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They can't give up 3 firsts and 2 swaps. They don't have any unencumbered picks until 2027.

A trade deadline deal might be possible where it's the expiring contracts of Dragic, plus Herro, Achiuwa and the 2027 1st (because Milwaukee wouldn't be taking on an extra $25M in 2022 salary). But Giannis would have to make it known then that he isn't resigning.

I just don't see how Miami makes the deal next summer with Milwaukee agreeing to taking on a massive filler salary in 2022 just to get Herro and a late 2027 pick.
Dragic could be traded in the offseason. He has an NG second year as I understand it. Trade Dragic, Herro and whatever small contract they need to fit the bill and presto, a trade the Bucks literally can't refuse unless they'd rather have nothing.

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1043 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:59 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:Dragic could be traded in the offseason. He has an NG second year as I understand it. Trade Dragic, Herro and whatever small contract they need to fit the bill and presto, a trade the Bucks literally can't refuse unless they'd rather have nothing.


I see nothing that indicates that Dragic's contract has any unusual non-guaranteed clauses for next year that would allow it to function similar to a TPE. All I see is that it's an ordinary Team Option. Which means the team must commit to paying him for the 2021-22 season before it can be traded as part of deal made in 2021.

For them to trade it and not cost Milwaukee, it would have to be some sort of non-guaranteed contract with the guarantee deadline taking place AFTER the free agency period next summer. Those contracts are really rare.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1044 » by I_Like_Dirt » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:56 pm

nate33 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:Dragic could be traded in the offseason. He has an NG second year as I understand it. Trade Dragic, Herro and whatever small contract they need to fit the bill and presto, a trade the Bucks literally can't refuse unless they'd rather have nothing.


I see nothing that indicates that Dragic's contract has any unusual non-guaranteed clauses for next year that would allow it to function similar to a TPE. All I see is that it's an ordinary Team Option. Which means the team must commit to paying him for the 2021-22 season before it can be traded as part of deal made in 2021.

For them to trade it and not cost Milwaukee, it would have to be some sort of non-guaranteed contract with the guarantee deadline taking place AFTER the free agency period next summer. Those contracts are really rare.
I can't actually find where is says the guarantee date anywhere now. I see a bunch of stuff showing the Raptors signing non-guaranteed 2nd years after it was first reported they were team options. Nothing actually clarifies either way for the Heat.

Really, though, I've seen the Heat been called out of it with not cap space every offseason and every time someone wants to sign Riley makes it happen. There will be ways they can do it and I doubt any of them involved asking Bam to risk his livelihood by waiting for an extension when he and Giannks know each other and share an agent.

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1045 » by gambitx777 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:43 am

Yeah like I get none of those guys are gonna come over here and play. I mean sure, but they had cap room left no? Why not keep sannon they kids actually got potential. Unless NYK think they can lure lull over. Cuz lull is really good!
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gambitx777 wrote:Justin just sign and traded austin rivers and 3 30 year old draft rights guys to NYK for sannon.

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Or to put it another way, Houston traded 4 players to NY to get Sanon. None were good players - but still - 4 players for Sanon is startling.


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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1046 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:13 pm

I see the Knickerbockers just signed Michael Kidd Gilchrist.

A championship must be just around the corner.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1047 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:55 pm

The Boston converted the Charlotte Hayward signing to a trade so that the Celtics now have a $27.9M TPE that expires in a year.

Notably, Beal's salary is 28.7M, which won't fit (and you can't package the TPE with other contracts to bring back a bigger salary).

If the Wizards situation goes south and Wall is traded and Beal demands out, I figure Boston could be a good landing spot for Bertans' contract if the Wizards decide to rebuild.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1048 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:42 pm

My guy Nathan Knight signed a 2-way contract with Atlanta. I won't be surprised if he turns into a good NBA player.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1049 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:59 pm

Delon Wright traded to Detroit. They also acquired Jerami Grant & Zhaire Smith.

Plus, aside from drafting Killian Hayes @#7, the Pistons also got Isaiah Stewart & board fave Saddiq Bey via draft day trades. Plus Saben Lee, whoever he be....
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1050 » by bsilver » Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:37 pm

payitforward wrote:Delon Wright traded to Detroit. They also acquired Jerami Grant & Zhaire Smith.

Plus, aside from drafting Killian Hayes @#7, the Pistons also got Isaiah Stewart & board fave Saddiq Bey via draft day trades. Plus Saben Lee, whoever he be....

The Pistons got a lot of early criticism, but with their free agents and draft picks there's reason to be optimistic, although it will take a year or two. Killian Hayes has to become a star. Can't say the same for New York, Chicago, Cleveland, Orlando, or Charlotte, teams we should be better than this year, along with Detroit.

On paper, Atlanta looks better too.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1051 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:38 am

bsilver wrote:
payitforward wrote:Delon Wright traded to Detroit. They also acquired Jerami Grant & Zhaire Smith.

Plus, aside from drafting Killian Hayes @#7, the Pistons also got Isaiah Stewart & board fave Saddiq Bey via draft day trades. Plus Saben Lee, whoever he be....

The Pistons got a lot of early criticism, but with their free agents and draft picks there's reason to be optimistic, although it will take a year or two...

Detroit hired Troy Weaver as GM in June. He had been with Sam Presti & the Thunder previously.

A lot of people on this Board wanted Weaver for the Wizards after Ernie was fired. I no longer recall whether he was one of the executives around the league who wasn't interested in interviewing here. Or, maybe we just didn't bring him in.

They've also added David Mincberg from the Bucks as Ass't. GM. Also supposed to be a very smart young guy. & Ryan West, Jerry West's son.

It'll be interesting to watch how they change things in Detroit. They've certainly turned the roster over in a hurry!
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1052 » by Rafael122 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:16 am

I personally think Weaver has done a horrible job. There's a reason why guys who have been waiting 15 years for a GM job wait that long. Their starting 5 doesn't have anyone that can shoot the 3 on a consistent basis. The roster just seems like its a a mash of...stuff.

Regarding Boston, the only player I can see them actually using the TPE on is Oladipo. But Oladipo is no better than what they have now. I'd be shocked if Ainge actually uses it.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1053 » by gambitx777 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:14 am

That tpe is really sold d injury insurance or a good way to take a bad player for a pick.
Rafael122 wrote:I personally think Weaver has done a horrible job. There's a reason why guys who have been waiting 15 years for a GM job wait that long. Their starting 5 doesn't have anyone that can shoot the 3 on a consistent basis. The roster just seems like its a a mash of...stuff.

Regarding Boston, the only player I can see them actually using the TPE on is Oladipo. But Oladipo is no better than what they have now. I'd be shocked if Ainge actually uses it.
Weaver hasn't done anything decent they are in a bad spot they need to move rose and try to get out of blake Griffin .

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1054 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:31 pm

Wow... Weaver's had the job since June! The league was shut down during some of that time -- nor were any trades of FA signings possible.

IOW, he's had all of 2 weeks to work on his roster!

In that time, he's made 16 transactions plus he's gotten Killian Hayes, Saddiq Bey & Isaiah Stewart out of the draft. I think he still has 3 roster spots to fill.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1055 » by LyricalRico » Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:28 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Regarding Boston, the only player I can see them actually using the TPE on is Oladipo. But Oladipo is no better than what they have now. I'd be shocked if Ainge actually uses it.


Agree that there's not a clear target for the full value of the TPE, but it could allow them to facilitate someone else's deal and pickup assets in the process. In a 2021 offseason that could feature movement by guys like Giannis and AD that causes other dominos to fall, Boston will have one more card to play.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1056 » by closg00 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:50 pm

Hayes to DoumBOUYA!!!!
The Wizards finally get a draft steal in Deni Avdija
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1057 » by pcbothwel » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:00 pm

payitforward wrote:Wow... Weaver's had the job since June! The league was shut down during some of that time -- nor were any trades of FA signings possible.

IOW, he's had all of 2 weeks to work on his roster!

In that time, he's made 16 transactions plus he's gotten Killian Hayes, Saddiq Bey & Isaiah Stewart out of the draft. I think he still has 3 roster spots to fill.


Ughh... He added 50M in salary to next years books alone, gave up a future 1st, Kennard (late 1st value), and 4 consecutive 2nds (23-26).
For what? Stewart & Bey... Im just not impressed.
Looks like they just got a nice, hard working group of limited players that will keep them out of the top 6-8 picks but not in the playoffs.

But lets see what he does with more time.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1058 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:06 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:Wow... Weaver's had the job since June! The league was shut down during some of that time -- nor were any trades of FA signings possible.

IOW, he's had all of 2 weeks to work on his roster!

In that time, he's made 16 transactions plus he's gotten Killian Hayes, Saddiq Bey & Isaiah Stewart out of the draft. I think he still has 3 roster spots to fill.


Ughh... He added 50M in salary to next years books alone, gave up a future 1st, Kennard (late 1st value), and 4 consecutive 2nds (23-26).
For what? Stewart & Bey... Im just not impressed.
Looks like they just got a nice, hard working group of limited players that will keep them out of the top 6-8 picks but not in the playoffs.

But lets see what he does with more time.

Nah, they're a bottom 5 team this season for sure. Remember, Griffin is half the player he used to be. They probably added Grant just to reach the minimum salary cap, and they could trade him for another 1st rounder and a bad contract. Aside from those 2 and a couple average vets, they're relying on rookies. I thought they got a great value pick with S Bey at 19, but trading to get Stewart at 16 was a bit of a reach - though he could get 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. I think they should have gone with Poku - who went 17th, but I guess with Dombouyou being so raw - they didn't want another raw forward. I think Hayes has a good shot being ROY at 19 years old.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1059 » by pcbothwel » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:46 pm

Ruzious wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:Wow... Weaver's had the job since June! The league was shut down during some of that time -- nor were any trades of FA signings possible.

IOW, he's had all of 2 weeks to work on his roster!

In that time, he's made 16 transactions plus he's gotten Killian Hayes, Saddiq Bey & Isaiah Stewart out of the draft. I think he still has 3 roster spots to fill.


Ughh... He added 50M in salary to next years books alone, gave up a future 1st, Kennard (late 1st value), and 4 consecutive 2nds (23-26).
For what? Stewart & Bey... Im just not impressed.
Looks like they just got a nice, hard working group of limited players that will keep them out of the top 6-8 picks but not in the playoffs.

But lets see what he does with more time.

Nah, they're a bottom 5 team this season for sure. Remember, Griffin is half the player he used to be. They probably added Grant just to reach the minimum salary cap, and they could trade him for another 1st rounder and a bad contract. Aside from those 2 and a couple average vets, they're relying on rookies. I thought they got a great value pick with S Bey at 19, but trading to get Stewart at 16 was a bit of a reach - though he could get 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. I think they should have gone with Poku - who went 17th, but I guess with Dombouyou being so raw - they didn't want another raw forward. I think Hayes has a good shot being ROY at 19 years old.


NOT buying Grant. The guy plays above average defense and shoots a solid C&S 3... and thats it. He doesnt rebound, he doesnt pass, and he doesnt create for himself.
100% of his 3's over the last two years were assisted, while 77% of his 2's were assisted.

I understand his efficiency is great, but guys that do very little on the court while requiring teammates to score are always fools gold and it shows up in the +/- numbers... See Allen Crabbe.
Standard On/Off, RPM, RAPTOR, etc... all show Grant to be somewhere between 6th man at best, 10th man at worst.

I repeat, they'll NEVER get a 1st round pick for Grant. EVER. He's a poor mans Marvin Williams.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1060 » by Frichuela » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:54 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Ughh... He added 50M in salary to next years books alone, gave up a future 1st, Kennard (late 1st value), and 4 consecutive 2nds (23-26).
For what? Stewart & Bey... Im just not impressed.
Looks like they just got a nice, hard working group of limited players that will keep them out of the top 6-8 picks but not in the playoffs.

But lets see what he does with more time.

Nah, they're a bottom 5 team this season for sure. Remember, Griffin is half the player he used to be. They probably added Grant just to reach the minimum salary cap, and they could trade him for another 1st rounder and a bad contract. Aside from those 2 and a couple average vets, they're relying on rookies. I thought they got a great value pick with S Bey at 19, but trading to get Stewart at 16 was a bit of a reach - though he could get 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. I think they should have gone with Poku - who went 17th, but I guess with Dombouyou being so raw - they didn't want another raw forward. I think Hayes has a good shot being ROY at 19 years old.


NOT buying Grant. The guy plays above average defense and shoots a solid C&S 3... and thats it. He doesnt rebound, he doesnt pass, and he doesnt create for himself.
100% of his 3's over the last two years were assisted, while 77% of his 2's were assisted.

I understand his efficiency is great, but guys that do very little on the court while requiring teammates to score are always fools gold and it shows up in the +/- numbers... See Allen Crabbe.
Standard On/Off, RPM, RAPTOR, etc... all show Grant to be somewhere between 6th man at best, 10th man at worst.

I repeat, they'll NEVER get a 1st round pick for Grant. EVER. He's a poor mans Marvin Williams.


This, Grant's new contract is a big overpay IMO. As noted here, he is at best a 5th/6th option in a contender who is getting $20 mn/year.

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