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Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1561 » by Dat2U » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:23 pm

closg00 wrote:Re Williams, If Gafford has a good year, I wonder in-advance what kind of pay-day he can expect as a pogo-stick Center.


4 yrs - $80 million if he starts, plays a few more minutes and looks like he did with us.

4 yrs - $50-60 million if he's still off the bench, plays less than half the game and looks similar to last season.

4 yrs - $40-50 million if he's still good but not quite up to last season standards.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1562 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:37 pm

closg00 wrote:Re Williams, If Gafford has a good year, I wonder in-advance what kind of pay-day he can expect as a pogo-stick Center.


That's why we should have also added Isaiah Jackson and kept him for if/when Gafford gets pricey.

That good news is Tommy acquired pieces that can be moved to accommodate a larger salary.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1563 » by Ruzious » Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:48 pm

I don't get why Boston just extended Josh Richardson for next year. It seems clear that they've given up on getting cap space for next offseason. Seems like they've committed to defense in the backcourt - with him and Smart - but where's the scoring and play-making there? I guess they feel they can do that with Tatum and Brown being the forwards - and have the offense run through their forwards. My feeling is they're a solid 42 to 45 wins team, but they're not going anywhere. And they don't have the pieces to trade for Beal unless Tommy loses his mind.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1564 » by gambitx777 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:54 pm

Ruzious wrote:I don't get why Boston just extended Josh Richardson for next year. It seems clear that they've given up on getting cap space for next offseason. Seems like they've committed to defense in the backcourt - with him and Smart - but where's the scoring and play-making there? I guess they feel they can do that with Tatum and Brown being the forwards - and have the offense run through their forwards. My feeling is they're a solid 42 to 45 wins team, but they're not going anywhere. And they don't have the pieces to trade for Beal unless Tommy loses his mind.
The Boston fans are nuts on the boards thinking smart and some junk get them Beal and then **** talking Beal like he wouldn't help them anyway lol.

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1565 » by nate33 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:04 pm

Dat2U wrote:
closg00 wrote:Re Williams, If Gafford has a good year, I wonder in-advance what kind of pay-day he can expect as a pogo-stick Center.


4 yrs - $80 million if he starts, plays a few more minutes and looks like he did with us.

4 yrs - $50-60 million if he's still off the bench, plays less than half the game and looks similar to last season.

4 yrs - $40-50 million if he's still good but not quite up to last season standards.

Yup.
That first version is basically Jarrett Allen (who got $20M/yr)
That second version is basically Robert Williams (who got $13M/yr)
That third version is a slightly better Nerlens Noel (who got $9M/yr)
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1566 » by nate33 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:12 pm

Ruzious wrote:I don't get why Boston just extended Josh Richardson for next year. It seems clear that they've given up on getting cap space for next offseason. Seems like they've committed to defense in the backcourt - with him and Smart - but where's the scoring and play-making there? I guess they feel they can do that with Tatum and Brown being the forwards - and have the offense run through their forwards. My feeling is they're a solid 42 to 45 wins team, but they're not going anywhere. And they don't have the pieces to trade for Beal unless Tommy loses his mind.

Since they have abandoned the cap room route, it looks like they want tradeable contracts to use to match salary. But, as you say, I don't see Sheppard going for it unless he loses his mind.

Prior to the Richardson signing, there was at least the plausible threat that Boston could sacrifice a 1st to dump Smart, then stretch Horford, and then have max room to sign Beal outright. That implied threat would then force Sheppard to trade Beal for a lowball offer rather than risk losing him for nothing.

But with this Richardson signing, I think that threat is gone. I don't see how Boston could possibly get under the cap now, which means Sheppard can tell Boston to go pound sand when they offer some lowball deal for Beal next summer. Even if Beal really wants to go there, he no longer has the leverage to get there. The only threat Beal can make is "trade me to Boston or I'll opt out and go sign with Detroit". I don't think Beal would make that threat, and I don't think Sheppard would believe it if he did, particularly since Beal would lose out on a 5th year in that scenario.

I wonder if Brad Stevens has heard through Tatum that Beal has no intention of demanding a trade to Boston.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1567 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:21 pm

If the Wiz get in a best of 7 playoffs series against a team that doesn't have Embiid, it'll be interesting to see how Gafford does. That could determine - moreso than the regular season - what kind of contract he gets. I don't think teams want to pay centers that can't get it done in the playoffs.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1568 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:16 pm

Ruzious wrote:I don't get why Boston just extended Josh Richardson for next year. It seems clear that they've given up on getting cap space for next offseason. Seems like they've committed to defense in the backcourt - with him and Smart - but where's the scoring and play-making there? I guess they feel they can do that with Tatum and Brown being the forwards - and have the offense run through their forwards. My feeling is they're a solid 42 to 45 wins team, but they're not going anywhere. And they don't have the pieces to trade for Beal unless Tommy loses his mind.


No need for scoring in when Brown/Tatum will get you 60 a game.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1569 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:19 pm

Ruzious wrote:If the Wiz get in a best of 7 playoffs series against a team that doesn't have Embiid, it'll be interesting to see how Gafford does. That could determine - moreso than the regular season - what kind of contract he gets. I don't think teams want to pay centers that can't get it done in the playoffs.


See the large and the red?

What a good coach MIGHT have done is put a player like Bertans at C. Play a Princeton style in which Jo Jo Embiid is FORCED to play the perimeter on defense. Run his big ass into the ground. Trade three's for twos. Might still lose but not the same way Scotty B lost. Pandering to egos and making sure Brad and Russ got their usage norms.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1570 » by dckingsfan » Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:34 pm

Thoughts?

The biggest winner, IMO is Portland. Bulls at least get some assets.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263950/Cavaliers-Blazers-Bulls-Agree-To-Lauri-Markkanen-Larry-Nance-Jr-Deal
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1571 » by Ruzious » Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:38 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Thoughts?

The biggest winner, IMO is Portland. Bulls at least get some assets.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263950/Cavaliers-Blazers-Bulls-Agree-To-Lauri-Markkanen-Larry-Nance-Jr-Deal

Agreed. I'm not sure what Cleveland's thinking. It might be a good time to try to fleece them - get one of their guards.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1572 » by dckingsfan » Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:00 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Thoughts?

The biggest winner, IMO is Portland. Bulls at least get some assets.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263950/Cavaliers-Blazers-Bulls-Agree-To-Lauri-Markkanen-Larry-Nance-Jr-Deal

Agreed. I'm not sure what Cleveland's thinking. It might be a good time to try to fleece them - get one of their guards.

PG Garland/Rubio
SG Sexton/Windler/Dotson
SF Okoro/Osman/Prince
PF Mobley/Markkanen/Wade/Stevens
C Allen/Love/Hartenstein/Kabengele

Kabengele, Stevens and Dotson aren't guaranteed, still:

PG Garland/Rubio
SG Sexton/Windler
SF Okoro/Osman/Prince
PF Mobley/Markkanen/Wade
C Allen/Love/Hartenstein

That doesn't look like they would give up a guard? Guessing they will keep Dotson.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1573 » by Ruzious » Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:22 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Thoughts?

The biggest winner, IMO is Portland. Bulls at least get some assets.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263950/Cavaliers-Blazers-Bulls-Agree-To-Lauri-Markkanen-Larry-Nance-Jr-Deal

Agreed. I'm not sure what Cleveland's thinking. It might be a good time to try to fleece them - get one of their guards.

PG Garland/Rubio
SG Sexton/Windler/Dotson
SF Okoro/Osman/Prince
PF Mobley/Markkanen/Wade/Stevens
C Allen/Love/Hartenstein/Kabengele

Kabengele, Stevens and Dotson aren't guaranteed, still:

PG Garland/Rubio
SG Sexton/Windler
SF Okoro/Osman/Prince
PF Mobley/Markkanen/Wade
C Allen/Love/Hartenstein

That doesn't look like they would give up a guard? Guessing they will keep Dotson.

Their guards are small - except for Windler - who's really a forward. But yeah, we're not a perfect trade partner for them - at this point - maybe later - for Sexton or Garland.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1574 » by payitforward » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:05 pm

Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Thoughts?

The biggest winner, IMO is Portland. Bulls at least get some assets.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263950/Cavaliers-Blazers-Bulls-Agree-To-Lauri-Markkanen-Larry-Nance-Jr-Deal

Agreed. I'm not sure what Cleveland's thinking. It might be a good time to try to fleece them - get one of their guards.

Wow... Who is running the Cavs FO these days? That's a terrible trade for them.

Great for Portland, however: Larry Nance is a good player!
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1575 » by gambitx777 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:47 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Thoughts?

The biggest winner, IMO is Portland. Bulls at least get some assets.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263950/Cavaliers-Blazers-Bulls-Agree-To-Lauri-Markkanen-Larry-Nance-Jr-Deal

Agreed. I'm not sure what Cleveland's thinking. It might be a good time to try to fleece them - get one of their guards.

Wow... Who is running the Cavs FO these days? That's a terrible trade for them.

Great for Portland, however: Larry Nance is a good player!
Yeah makes no sense with what they have.... Like ? Are they gonna try to make LM a 3?

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1576 » by Ruzious » Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:20 am

gambitx777 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Agreed. I'm not sure what Cleveland's thinking. It might be a good time to try to fleece them - get one of their guards.

Wow... Who is running the Cavs FO these days? That's a terrible trade for them.

Great for Portland, however: Larry Nance is a good player!
Yeah makes no sense with what they have.... Like ? Are they gonna try to make LM a 3?

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Sounds like they might be buying out Love, so they probably wanted more of an offensive-minded option up front to come off the bench and backup Allen and Mobley. Not saying that's what I would have done - just trying to come up with some explanation they might have been using.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1577 » by dckingsfan » Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:28 am

payitforward wrote:Great for Portland, however: Larry Nance is a good player!

Balances their lineup a bit as well... not sure if Covington or Nance starts. But the front court isn't terrible. SF may end up being a problem. But maybe they go more with a 3 guard lineup. Nassar Little had a nice little jump last season if he does it again he might win himself the starting job. Happy they are in the west.

Lillard/Simons
McCollum/Snell/McLemore
Powell/Little/Elleby
Covington/Nance/Brown
Nurkic/Zeller
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1578 » by Dat2U » Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:14 am

Ruzious wrote:I don't get why Boston just extended Josh Richardson for next year. It seems clear that they've given up on getting cap space for next offseason. Seems like they've committed to defense in the backcourt - with him and Smart - but where's the scoring and play-making there? I guess they feel they can do that with Tatum and Brown being the forwards - and have the offense run through their forwards. My feeling is they're a solid 42 to 45 wins team, but they're not going anywhere. And they don't have the pieces to trade for Beal unless Tommy loses his mind.


I do worry Tommy is so relationship focused that if Beal specifically demanded to go to Boston if things went left this season then Tommy would satisfy his wishes and take the best offer he could get from them. I don't think that will happen though. If Beal did ask out I could Boston being on a list of teams but not the sole option... even him asking out at this point seems unlikely... as long as the bottom doesn't fall out. I think we're too deep not be at least fighting for a play-in spot.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1579 » by gambitx777 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:53 am

Ruzious wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Wow... Who is running the Cavs FO these days? That's a terrible trade for them.

Great for Portland, however: Larry Nance is a good player!
Yeah makes no sense with what they have.... Like ? Are they gonna try to make LM a 3?

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Sounds like they might be buying out Love, so they probably wanted more of an offensive-minded option up front to come off the bench and backup Allen and Mobley. Not saying that's what I would have done - just trying to come up with some explanation they might have been using.
And love goes too la?


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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#1580 » by verbal8 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:14 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Yeah makes no sense with what they have.... Like ? Are they gonna try to make LM a 3?

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Sounds like they might be buying out Love, so they probably wanted more of an offensive-minded option up front to come off the bench and backup Allen and Mobley. Not saying that's what I would have done - just trying to come up with some explanation they might have been using.
And love goes too la?


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Apparently Love is saying he isn't interested in a buyout, but that might just be negotiating tactic. LA would seem a likely destination for Love if he does get bought out.

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