Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

[dangermouse]

Whats up with Zeller? He's no Cody but worth a shot... what do MIL know?

[payitforward]

Cleveland has signed Larry Nance Jr. to an extension -- 4 years @ $45m. I'd call that a great bargain for them in the current NBA. (In the real world, I call that a lot of money to play a kids' game!!)

[verbal8]

Unfortunate line-break in Wiretap headline:

Russell Westbrook Listed As Out For Season
Opener

[verbal8]

Cleveland has signed Larry Nance Jr. to an extension -- 4 years @ $45m. I'd call that a great bargain for them in the current NBA. (In the real world, I call that a lot of money to play a kids' game!!)

I wonder if it isn't a coincidence that both Curry and Nance signed team friendly deals after their rookie contracts.

If the goal is stability and having a team invested in your career vs. completely maximizing their earnings it makes a lot of sense.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I wonder if it isn't a coincidence that both Curry and Nance signed team friendly deals after their rookie contracts.

I don't think it's a coincidence but I doubt it's for the reason you're suggesting. Curry signed that extension before he was a superstar and coming off a season where he was seriously injured and only played 26 games. Nance isn't as good as Curry was back then, plays in an era when his skillset is arguably less valuable than it has ever been, and has never played 67 games in any season in his first 3 tries. These are players that are going to potentially value a certain amount of security. It wouldn't surprise me if the fact that their parents already had a significant amount of financial security didn't make it easier for them to take less to protect themselves rather than gambling on getting every last penny they might possibly get, but given that the sample size is 2, it's really tough to say.

[payitforward]

Meanwhile, Myles Turner just got an $80m 4 year extension.

[trast66]

Meanwhile, Myles Turner just got an $80m 4 year extension.

4/72 with $8m incentives. Indy had to do it, and smart not to let him get to restricted where he could have received a Otto/Brooklyn type offer. Even if he improves just incrementally, worth it.

[Ruzious]

With Redick 34 years old and coming off the bench and Fulz starting, does Philly's starting unit make enough 3's to win the NBA East? In game 1, their starters combined to make 3 of 15. And do you really want Embiid standing behind the 3 point arc - to clear the path for Simmons?

[Ruzious]

Meanwhile, Myles Turner just got an $80m 4 year extension.

4/72 with $8m incentives. Indy had to do it, and smart not to let him get to restricted where he could have received a Otto/Brooklyn type offer. Even if he improves just incrementally, worth it.

And compared to his former teammate Mahinmi getting 64/4, that's a bargain.

[Ruzious]

Cleveland has signed Larry Nance Jr. to an extension -- 4 years @ $45m. I'd call that a great bargain for them in the current NBA. (In the real world, I call that a lot of money to play a kids' game!!)

I wonder if it isn't a coincidence that both Curry and Nance signed team friendly deals after their rookie contracts.

If the goal is stability and having a team invested in your career vs. completely maximizing their earnings it makes a lot of sense.

I think in this case, it's guys like Nance typically get under-paid because they don't score a lot and they're deemed to be under-sized.

[Ruzious]

Whats up with Zeller? He's no Cody but worth a shot... what do MIL know?

It was a numbers game; Milwaukee had a bunch of centers; Christian Wood beat him out, and they're still intrigued by Thon Maker. If they found a taker to trade Henson to, maybe they would have kept Tyler. Ironically, Henson's presence helped lose Zeller his job, and they were teammates at UNC. Bucks will likely start Brook Lopez at C and use Giannis as small-ball center - though it might be a mis-nomer there since Giannis ain't small. They can also use Ilyasova at C. Numbers game.

[trast66]

With Redick 34 years old and coming off the bench and Fulz starting, does Philly's starting unit make enough 3's to win the NBA East? In game 1, their starters combined to make 3 of 15. And do you really want Embiid standing behind the 3 point arc - to clear the path for Simmons?

Only one game but Fultz clogged up the offense. They may give him to trade deadline to come around, but no they can’t win the East with what they had on court last night.

[I_Like_Dirt]

With Redick 34 years old and coming off the bench and Fulz starting, does Philly's starting unit make enough 3's to win the NBA East? In game 1, their starters combined to make 3 of 15. And do you really want Embiid standing behind the 3 point arc - to clear the path for Simmons?

I'm not sure how good the Sixers will be, but their struggles from 3 were more a function of the Celtics' defense than the Sixers' lack of shooting. Basically it's just Fultz and Simmons on the team that don't have 3-point range. Everyone else in the rotation can shoot the 3 reasonably well. Fultz gummed up the offense not just because he can't shoot - a shot would certainly help a lot, but Simmons doesn't have the same issues and isn't necessarily a better shooter. Fultz's problem also that he isn't a very good offensive player in the NBA. Hopefully he learns how to fit his game into a modern offense because I feel that his ballhandling and passing are desperately needed by the Sixers who are far too reliant on Simmons for those things. Right now they're clearly better surrounding Simmons with a bunch of shooters, but if they got a good secondary ballhandler, that would help them immensely which is why I suspect they're giving Fultz time.

As for Embiid standing behind the 3 point arc, I mean, I don't actually want him handling the ball too much. He struggles in the post because the Celtics swarming defense intercepts passes and picks off dribbles if players aren't careful. You don't actually see any inside-out centers anymore, and there's a reason for that. The Celtics are probably the best in the business attempts to go inside.

[nate33]

I think playing Fultz is a long-term move by Philly. They've got to try and develop him. If they sit him another season, it's a sure bet that he'll bust.

What they really need to do is maximize the amount of time that Fultz and Simmons do not share the floor. They can both start, but Fultz should sit early and then come back in to lead the 2nd unit while Simmons sits. That way, they minimize their floor spacing woes. As a side benefit, Fultz will be tired down the stretch of each half after having played two stints, and they'll be able to justify sitting him in crunch time without embarrassing him.

[Ruzious]

With Redick 34 years old and coming off the bench and Fulz starting, does Philly's starting unit make enough 3's to win the NBA East? In game 1, their starters combined to make 3 of 15. And do you really want Embiid standing behind the 3 point arc - to clear the path for Simmons?

I'm not sure how good the Sixers will be, but their struggles from 3 were more a function of the Celtics' defense than the Sixers' lack of shooting. Basically it's just Fultz and Simmons on the team that don't have 3-point range. Everyone else in the rotation can shoot the 3 reasonably well. Fultz gummed up the offense not just because he can't shoot - a shot would certainly help a lot, but Simmons doesn't have the same issues and isn't necessarily a better shooter. Fultz's problem also that he isn't a very good offensive player in the NBA. Hopefully he learns how to fit his game into a modern offense because I feel that his ballhandling and passing are desperately needed by the Sixers who are far too reliant on Simmons for those things. Right now they're clearly better surrounding Simmons with a bunch of shooters, but if they got a good secondary ballhandler, that would help them immensely which is why I suspect they're giving Fultz time.

As for Embiid standing behind the 3 point arc, I mean, I don't actually want him handling the ball too much. He struggles in the post because the Celtics swarming defense intercepts passes and picks off dribbles if players aren't careful. You don't actually see any inside-out centers anymore, and there's a reason for that. The Celtics are probably the best in the business attempts to go inside.

I think the 3 point shooting is a bigger problem. Nobody in the starting lineup is consistently good from 3. Saric is probably the best and did shoot 39% last season, but he also shot just 31% the season before. I expect his 35% lifetime percentage will stay around there. Covington is so streaky, and you never know what you'll get with him - he's also a player I'd expect to be at 35 to 36 percent. Embiid''s probably around 33%, Simmons zero, and Fultz has shot 32.6% when healthy. This team would be Great for 2008; but for 2018, I don't see it competing even for the East championship.

There are bigs like Townes and Anthony Davis that can score in basically any way, and Embiid can be that type of player. Horford's not a prolific scorerr, but he gets it done inside and out. He also got 5 blocks last night. It makes it easier to blcok shots when the other team doesn't spread the floor effectively. But yeah, let's see how Philly looks against middlin teams rather than the best team in the East. Maybe we'll see dramatic improvement from Fultz.

[Rafael122]

It's only the first game but a couple of takeaways from that Cs/Sixers game:

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say with this post, but it seems like Hayward and Irving are playing one form of basketball while everyone else is playing like they did last year without those two. So the entire offseason was like "Boston was 5 minutes away from the Finals without Kyrie and Hayward, imagine what they will be like WITH them?" It wouldn't shock me if one of Hayward/Irving were no longer on the team next season. First game, I get it, but it doesn't look like they fit with that team.

Philly's ascension to title contender is entirely dependent on Fultz. Ben and Joel are here, they've arrived but Ben can't shoot and Embiid isn't a stretch big like Horford. They needed that outside threat and maybe Fultz can still be that dude but it really makes me wonder if they should have traded for Kawhi.

[queridiculo]

On the Sixers, Fultz strikes me as a square peg, primarily because Simmons strength is handling the ball and because he's essentially useless playing off it.

Fultz isn't a spot up shooter and I don't really see him developing into one this season, or beyond. Throw how Embiid's plays the game into the mix and there aren't all that many touches to go around for him to play to his strength.

Ironically Tatum probably would have been the ideal guy to throw into this situation, and when you factor how poor the Kings are going to be this season, it's safe to say that Bryan Colangelo's stint probably couldn't have been any worse for Philly.

It doesn't help that they haven't managed to adequately replace the production they got from Belinnelli and Ilyasova. Both of those guys were a big part of their late season run and spacing may turn out to be a major issue for them all year long when you factor Covington's on and off outside shooting.

[LyricalRico]

It doesn't help that they haven't managed to adequately replace the production they got from Belinnelli and Ilyasova. Both of those guys were a big part of their late season run and spacing may turn out to be a major issue for them all year long when you factor Covington's on and off outside shooting.

Bingo. All offseason I've thought everyone was overrating Philly. Yes - they have two of the best young players in the game (Embiid, Simmons). But after that, does anyone else on their team scare anybody? Redick and Covington are nice role players, but they don't seem particularly deep to me and that's an issue since their two young stars have injury histories. Even assuming health, I don't consider them a contender for the Finals no matter how many regular season games they may win in the East.

[pcbothwel]

It doesn't help that they haven't managed to adequately replace the production they got from Belinnelli and Ilyasova. Both of those guys were a big part of their late season run and spacing may turn out to be a major issue for them all year long when you factor Covington's on and off outside shooting.

Bingo. All offseason I've thought everyone was overrating Philly. Yes - they have two of the best young players in the game (Embiid, Simmons). But after that, does anyone else on their team scare anybody? Redick and Covington are nice role players, but they don't seem particularly deep to me and that's an issue since their two young stars have injury histories. Even assuming health, I don't consider them a contender for the Finals no matter how many regular season games they may win in the East.

Couldnt agree more. I didnt buy Philly's ascension like everyone else. In time, sure, but they arent there yet. Simmons is gonna be great, but people will study the Playoff tape from last year and limit is impact/ceiling until he can shoot. If Covington comes back down to earth, they are in real trouble

Boston looks great, but im still not sure what Hayward is moving forward. Having 80M+ committed to Kyrie, Hayward, and Smart next year is not all that Rosie. Tatum is a star though...

[Ruzious]

Tatum is a star, and Brown is a freakish talent. That's a super-talented super-deep team. The only thing I'd criticise Ainge on is re-signing Smart. I just don't think he's worth it, and with Irving back and Rozier proving he's worthy of starters minutes, I didn't see the point of giving Smart a big contract. Not... smart.