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Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#661 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:40 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
closg00 wrote:Its Tacko Time

How did they NOT make this announcement on a Tuesday?!?

What am I missing here?
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#662 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:42 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
payitforward wrote:OTOH, I completely agree that Schlenk's draft moves were incomprehensible.

Hunter might have been there at #8, for starters. & if someone actually picked him, say at #6, that would have been the time to say "hey, we'll give you our #10 & #35 & a R2 pick next year for him." -- something like that. 8 & 17 was a major overpay let alone adding #35. Nuts.

Hell, 10 & 17 would have been an overpay.

You are preaching to the choir, brother.

We've overall been pleased with his tenure, so our fanbase is giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But, it was a hell of an overpay. Undeniably.

David Griffin is one helluva basketball executive!
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#663 » by doclinkin » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:30 am

payitforward wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
closg00 wrote:Its Tacko Time

How did they NOT make this announcement on a Tuesday?!?

What am I missing here?


You’re old. Many bars have taco Tuesday.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#664 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:34 am

payitforward wrote:Somebody please explain to me what makes Kevin Huerter particularly valuable. Is it his 14 points per 40 minutes? Or is it the below average TS% at which he scores that below average number of points?



:dontknow:

This article does a better job speaking to Huerter's strength's and potential than I ever could:

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#665 » by badinage » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:00 pm

Man, is that a horrific piece of writing.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#666 » by closg00 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:49 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
payitforward wrote:Somebody please explain to me what makes Kevin Huerter particularly valuable. Is it his 14 points per 40 minutes? Or is it the below average TS% at which he scores that below average number of points?



:dontknow:

This article does a better job speaking to Huerter's strength's and potential than I ever could:

Read on Twitter



Kevin is just 20, I believe he projects to be a deadly shooter in the next few years, not so sure about his defense or being able to get his shot-off in clutch situations, he seems more of a catch and shoot guy.
Tank 19/20, trade Brad, Top-5 pick in 2020.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#667 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:44 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
payitforward wrote:Somebody please explain to me what makes Kevin Huerter particularly valuable...?

This article does a better job speaking to Huerter's strength's and potential than I ever could:...snip

This article, essentially a set of commented highlights, is plain silly. Let me illustrate -- the article doesn't address his rebounding. I'll help with that, using the article's point of view:

"Tho only a rookie last year, Kevin Huerter already grabbed slightly more offensive boards per 40 minutes than an average wing. That's because he's such a terrific player & of course this will only get better over the years. While, admittedly, Huerter got a below-average number of defensive boards per 40 minutes, that is because he was a rookie; this will only get better over the years."

I like Kevin Huerter; he has a chance to be a good NBA player. But, last year, he was a below average scorer. His usage was below average, & his TS% was below average. That's not the combination one wants. As to the rest of what he did, he was slightly below average -- which is not bad for a rookie but not something to vaunt.

My original query above was prompted by the value you wanted to give him in a potential trade for Brad Beal. Nothing in the article helps me agree to that value.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#668 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:51 pm

closg00 wrote:Kevin is just 20, I believe he projects to be a deadly shooter in the next few years, not so sure about his defense or being able to get his shot-off in clutch situations, he seems more of a catch and shoot guy.

He'll be 21 in 4 weeks -- so advanced an age that most people here would say that he'd be too old to draft! :)

Huerter is already a very good 3-point shooter: 38.5% on an above average number of shots. That's what he is good at. So far it's all he's good at, but of course he may develop -- no need to think of him as a limited guy.

But... right now, he doesn't have a whole lot of demonstrated value that would make him an important part of a trade for Bradley Beal right now.

That's all. That's the only context for this discussion of Kevin Huerter.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#669 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:19 pm

^Yikes.

Sounds like PIF has relegated Huerter to the same poo poo platter John Collins was deemed to be on last year.


:dontknow:


Time will tell.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#670 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:19 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:...Sounds like PIF has relegated Huerter to ....

Nah. Haven't relegated him to anything whatever. He's a promising kid. He has one NBA skill already -- that's a good thing in a player not yet 21.

He just doesn't have current trade value equivalent to the rosiest possible picture of his potential future. Not saying anything more than that.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#671 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:27 pm

I don't hate Kevin Huerter but he isn't the Hawks' second best prospect. I like him as a rotation wing with a particular role, though, and like him way more than Reddish. I like how he fits with Young, Hunter and Collins, though, even if Huerter is 4th on that list were a person interested in ranking them. I also think that his game lines up well with Evan Turner's, too. The team has done well tailoring a role for him and it's on him to grow into it. If he could add some finish around the basket, it would help a lot.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#672 » by closg00 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:38 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:I don't hate Kevin Huerter but he isn't the Hawks' second best prospect. I like him as a rotation wing with a particular role, though, and like him way more than Reddish. I like how he fits with Young, Hunter and Collins, though, even if Huerter is 4th on that list were a person interested in ranking them. I also think that his game lines up well with Evan Turner's, too. The team has done well tailoring a role for him and it's on him to grow into it. If he could add some finish around the basket, it would help a lot.


Kevin was drafted @19
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#673 » by I_Like_Dirt » Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:49 pm

closg00 wrote: Kevin was drafted @19



Agreed!

I'm not sure what you're point is. I suggested he wasn't the second best prospect because Jamaaliver linked an article which suggested that he was.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#674 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:39 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:I suggested he wasn't the second best prospect because Jamaaliver linked an article which suggested that he was.




Can I assume you have Collins and Trae ranked as top-2 in one order or another?

Is De'Andre Hunter #3 even without any games played?

I'm interested in non-Hawks fans opinions on this. AND ANYONE WHO WATCHED A FAIR AMOUNT OF hunter IN COLLEGE.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#675 » by doclinkin » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:01 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:I suggested he wasn't the second best prospect because Jamaaliver linked an article which suggested that he was.




Can I assume you have Collins and Trae ranked as top-2 in one order or another?

Is De'Andre Hunter #3 even without any games played?

I'm interested in non-Hawks fans opinions on this. AND ANYONE WHO WATCHED A FAIR AMOUNT OF hunter IN COLLEGE.


I think Hunter will be critically important for you over his career. HIs lateral defense and size and ability to defend 1-5 are game changers on a team that will be trying to hide Trae Young at that end. On offense he is a pass dependent player and doesn't yet work hard to get open. But he is steady and coachable and sets a hell of a solid screen. Trae will find all the smart ways to use him.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#676 » by I_Like_Dirt » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:25 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Can I assume you have Collins and Trae ranked as top-2 in one order or another?

Is De'Andre Hunter #3 even without any games played?

I'm interested in non-Hawks fans opinions on this. AND ANYONE WHO WATCHED A FAIR AMOUNT OF hunter IN COLLEGE.


Trae is #1 by a mile in my view. He's really, really good and I see him as a modern day Steve Nash in the making. Collins and Hunter, I'm not completely sure how I have them ranked but I have them both ahead of Huerter and am leaning Hunter over Collins, to be honest.

It's tough to say without seeing how Hunter transitions to the NBA but the kind of two-way play he offers is still ridiculously underrated by a lot of fans. I think he might be a little better than Mikal Bridges from last season and that's saying a lot because I like Bridges a lot. I don't see superstar in Hunter but I don't see superstar in most players and that isn't the insult it's often made out to be. He still has allstar potential, though as with any prospect the question is whether or not he reaches that potential.

I like Collins quite a bit, too, but I still have quite a few concerns about him on the defensive side of the ball. He's still going to be a good player but he has certain limits to how he will be able to impact the game. I think his upside is about as high as Hunter's just with more of an offensive lean than defensive one, but I feel he's less likely to fully achieve his full potential because it's so polarized on one side of the ball.

It's weird and I know there are differences but I see a lot of the D'Antoni/Nash Suns in what the Hawks are doing. I mentioned Trae and Nash, but Collins isn't totally out of line in the Amare role, nor is Hunter out of line in the Marion role. There are problems with my comparisons in terms of games, to be sure, but in terms of roles and how the Hawks played last season, there are some parallels I feel can be made. Since I'm now committed to following that analogy, Huerter gets to be Qrich, I suppose. And Reddish... Zarko Cabarkapa? Magic Lampe? They had a few guys who were supposed to be ultra skilled and able to shoot with the one exception of whenever they were on the floor in a competitive game.

The game has evolved a fair bit since then and has quietly taken a swing towards rewarding creative systemic defense a bit more again, as teams like the Raptors, Sixers and Bucks all showed this last season. I'm curious to see how it works out for the Hawks, though.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#677 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Aug 1, 2019 4:56 pm

doclinkin wrote:I think Hunter will be critically important for you over his career.



I_Like_Dirt wrote:Trae is #1 by a mile in my view. He's really, really good and I see him as a modern day Steve Nash in the making. It's weird and I know there are differences but I see a lot of the D'Antoni/Nash Suns in what the Hawks are doing.




Much obliged for the input. And that Suns comparison is one that's been made a few times around the Association. Trae even stated Nash is actually who he modeled his game around.



Are there any other teams you guys particularly fond of this offseason?

I'm pulling for Utah after their acquisition of Conley. And kinda hope Oladipo and the Pacers can make a surprise run to the ECF. And Portland. I've long thought they needed to move McCollum in trade in favor of a big, do-it-all wing player. But you have to respect a team/fanbase/front office that committed to winning big with their own guys.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#678 » by Illmatic12 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 11:28 pm

Philadelphia is probably the most intriguing and unique team in the league (imo). Very interested to see how that roster plays out,

I hope Embiid gets in tip-top shape and changes his narrative, this is the season for him to take over in the playoffs and put a stamp on his career
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#679 » by payitforward » Fri Aug 2, 2019 12:50 am

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:How did they NOT make this announcement on a Tuesday?!?

What am I missing here?

You’re old. Many bars have taco Tuesday.

Huh! Live & learn! :)
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7 

Post#680 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Aug 2, 2019 1:44 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:Philadelphia is probably the most intriguing and unique team in the league (imo). Very interested to see how that roster plays out,

I hope Embiid gets in tip-top shape and changes his narrative, this is the season for him to take over in the playoffs and put a stamp on his career



I'm a huuuge AL Horford fan (for obvious reasons), so I'll be watching the 76ers closely this year. But I can't get past the fact that their two best players just don't fit. <--Corrected for grammar.

Controversial statement alert: I think Ben Simmons is a tremendous talent on par with Giannis. But he's at the wrong position. He needs to be playing PF or C surrounded by 3 & D wings and a floor spacing Center. Simmons would be tremendous as a point forward, abusing switches in the paint, taking bigger/slower defenders off the dribble and as a screen setter for his guards in DHO situations.

He should be used more akin to Draymond, Zion and Giannis.

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