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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Fri Aug 2, 2019 3:22 pm
by Illmatic12
Jamaaliver wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Philadelphia is probably the most intriguing and unique team in the league (imo). Very interested to see how that roster plays out,

I hope Embiid gets in tip-top shape and changes his narrative, this is the season for him to take over in the playoffs and put a stamp on his career



'm a huuuge AL Horford fan (for obvious reasons), so I'll be watching th e76ers closely this year. But I can't get past the fact that their two bets players just don't fit.

Controversial statement alert: I think Ben Simmons is a tremendous talent on par with Giannis. But he's at the wrong position. He needs to be playing PF or C surrounded by 3 & D wings and a floor spacing Center. Simmons would be tremendous as a point forward, abusing switches in the paint, taking bigger/slower defenders off the dribble and as a screen setter for his guards in DHO situations.

He should be used more akin to Draymond, Zion and Giannis.

The fit aspect is what makes it so intriguing to me.
I think the Warriors spoiled people into thinking that championship teams are supposed to be perfect.


This year reminds me of the mid-2000s NBA where you have a bunch of talented, but imperfect teams who are all vying for the championship. There isn’t any team who you can point to and say they have no flaws in team construction.

For Philly, they could possibly have the best defense in the league but offensively will have to figure it out on the fly which adds to the unpredictability. As far as Simmons agreed, I’ve said for years he is a PF.. problem is his ego and he wants the glory of being a point guard instead of getting his tall *** in the post

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Sat Aug 3, 2019 8:29 pm
by FAH1223
Read on Twitter

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Sat Aug 3, 2019 9:35 pm
by nate33
FAH1223 wrote:
Read on Twitter

Wow! Incredible deal for the Warriors. Draymond was eligible for a 30% extension which starts at around $35M. Getting him on a deal starting at $22M is pretty sweet. Also, they only resigned him for 4 years instead of 5. Draymond strikes me as a guy who will decline in a hurry once the decline starts, so it's best not to have him on a big contract after age 33.

The only concern is whether he'll stay motivated after getting that kind of financial security. He allowed himself to get substantially overweight during the middle of the season last year.

The Warriors aren't dead yet. If they can find a way to trade D'Angelo Russell midseason into a pair of forwards - one an elite 3&D type (like a Robert Covington) and the other a 6th man tier combo forward (about as good as, say, Maurice Harkless), they can be right back in the thick of it. Basically, they will have recreated the pre-Durant squad with Covington in place of Barnes (a significant upgrade, I might add) and Harkless in the Iggy role (admittedly a downgrade). Looney is better than the Andrew Bogut of that season.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:10 pm
by I_Like_Dirt
nate33 wrote:The Warriors aren't dead yet. If they can find a way to trade D'Angelo Russell midseason into a pair of forwards - one an elite 3&D type (like a Robert Covington) and the other a 6th man tier combo forward (about as good as, say, Maurice Harkless), they can be right back in the thick of it. Basically, they will have recreated the pre-Durant squad with Covington in place of Barnes (a significant upgrade, I might add) and Harkless in the Iggy role (admittedly a downgrade). Looney is better than the Andrew Bogut of that season.


That kind of trade would absolutely help them but I'm not convinced they even need it to have a shot at a title. People don't realize the extent to which Durant was occupying roles that had previously been taken by Curry and Draymond and that those two guys were also elite at them. They're a thin team, which is a problem even more pronounced in the regular season so it's going to be a climb but they've got a lot of talent there. Curry is still right there with Lebron, Kawhi and Giannis in the discussion for best player in the league and Draymond was a completely different player in the finals and looked like his old self when Durant was out. They're worse without Durant, of course, and without Klay, but losing Klay is somewhat offset by gaining Russell as I'm not convinced Klay is that much better than Russell, he just handles a different role. Klay's contract is the absolutely terrifying one of this offseason that nobody is talking about. Still, they have a lot of top end talent barring injuries I feel they'll be a playoff team out west and once the playoffs hit, depth matters a lot less and Klay might even be back.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 6:21 pm
by nate33
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
nate33 wrote:The Warriors aren't dead yet. If they can find a way to trade D'Angelo Russell midseason into a pair of forwards - one an elite 3&D type (like a Robert Covington) and the other a 6th man tier combo forward (about as good as, say, Maurice Harkless), they can be right back in the thick of it. Basically, they will have recreated the pre-Durant squad with Covington in place of Barnes (a significant upgrade, I might add) and Harkless in the Iggy role (admittedly a downgrade). Looney is better than the Andrew Bogut of that season.


That kind of trade would absolutely help them but I'm not convinced they even need it to have a shot at a title. People don't realize the extent to which Durant was occupying roles that had previously been taken by Curry and Draymond and that those two guys were also elite at them. They're a thin team, which is a problem even more pronounced in the regular season so it's going to be a climb but they've got a lot of talent there. Curry is still right there with Lebron, Kawhi and Giannis in the discussion for best player in the league and Draymond was a completely different player in the finals and looked like his old self when Durant was out. They're worse without Durant, of course, and without Klay, but losing Klay is somewhat offset by gaining Russell as I'm not convinced Klay is that much better than Russell, he just handles a different role. Klay's contract is the absolutely terrifying one of this offseason that nobody is talking about. Still, they have a lot of top end talent barring injuries I feel they'll be a playoff team out west and once the playoffs hit, depth matters a lot less and Klay might even be back.

They have the talent to make the playoffs, but I don't think they can win as currently constructed unless they get some defensive forwards. They just can't match up defensively with guys like Kawhi, Lebron, George and Durant.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 8:45 pm
by I_Like_Dirt
Well, Durant is out east and won't be playing this year. You're really talking about Lebron, Kawhi and George. That's it. And yes, they'd be better off with guys to defend those players but there aren't actually a lot of players like that lying around. WCS along with Draymond should allow both guys to rotate a bit more. What the Warriors are really missing is a 2nd scoring option and Russell could be that. Having Klay would go a long ways, though, and if they have him for the playoffs, I'm not sure which team is going to be able to defend them, either, as they'll be hitting with a lot of potential points of attack. And while their wings will be in tough on the midrange, they still have WCS, Draymond and to a lesser extent Looney as mobile interior defenders.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Tue Aug 6, 2019 9:06 pm
by Ruzious
Interesting that GS got both of the ex Nova extra wide-bodies 3 point shooting bigs in Spellman and Paschall - as well as WCS, and they have a young G League vet big named Alen Smailagic - who seems to be a lot better than what meets the eye. I think they're a deeper team than last season - Alec Burks should help. They could even entertain the idea of trading Thompson - if Russell fits in well.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Wed Aug 7, 2019 3:46 pm
by I_Like_Dirt
I think trading Thompson instead of Russell would be the logical move, provided Russell fits in well and they decide to trade one of them. I don't think they have to trade anyone, though. I don't see them as deeper, yet. A lot of their guys have a lot to learn on the defensive side of the ball to become NBA defenders, and their offensive talents drop off extremely quickly. Still, they aren't a bad team. I don't think they're so far off Houston. The Rockets don't really have any big wing defenders, either - PJ Tucker is fine but isn't any better than Draymond. It's going to be interesting watching the forwards on the LA teams go up against the guards of the Rockets and Warriors this season.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Wed Aug 7, 2019 5:20 pm
by nate33
I_Like_Dirt wrote:I think trading Thompson instead of Russell would be the logical move, provided Russell fits in well and they decide to trade one of them. I don't think they have to trade anyone, though. I don't see them as deeper, yet. A lot of their guys have a lot to learn on the defensive side of the ball to become NBA defenders, and their offensive talents drop off extremely quickly. Still, they aren't a bad team. I don't think they're so far off Houston. The Rockets don't really have any big wing defenders, either - PJ Tucker is fine but isn't any better than Draymond. It's going to be interesting watching the forwards on the LA teams go up against the guards of the Rockets and Warriors this season.

I disagree totally. The Warriors are in win-now mode. They have maybe 3 years left before Curry and Green decline enough to take them out of contention. They're better off with a fully polished and playoff-seasoned two-way player in Klay Thompson, rather than Russell, who is still unproven on offense, lousy on D, and has had only one All-Star caliber year by virtue of making a whole lot of midrange jumpers - typically an unsustainable strategy.

The road to a championship runs through either Kawhi or Lebron, until proven otherwise. To beat them, you need a rangy defensive forward to slow them down. Golden State doesn't have anyone like that.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Wed Aug 7, 2019 6:28 pm
by pcbothwel
nate33 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:I think trading Thompson instead of Russell would be the logical move, provided Russell fits in well and they decide to trade one of them. I don't think they have to trade anyone, though. I don't see them as deeper, yet. A lot of their guys have a lot to learn on the defensive side of the ball to become NBA defenders, and their offensive talents drop off extremely quickly. Still, they aren't a bad team. I don't think they're so far off Houston. The Rockets don't really have any big wing defenders, either - PJ Tucker is fine but isn't any better than Draymond. It's going to be interesting watching the forwards on the LA teams go up against the guards of the Rockets and Warriors this season.

I disagree totally. The Warriors are in win-now mode. They have maybe 3 years left before Curry and Green decline enough to take them out of contention. They're better off with a fully polished and playoff-seasoned two-way player in Klay Thompson, rather than Russell, who is still unproven on offense, lousy on D, and has had only one All-Star caliber year by virtue of making a whole lot of midrange jumpers - typically an unsustainable strategy.

The road to a championship runs through either Kawhi or Lebron, until proven otherwise. To beat them, you need a rangy defensive forward to slow them down. Golden State doesn't have anyone like that.


I think you can damn near book it that Russell will be traded to the TWolves for Covington and Teague.
Curry / Teague
Klay / Burks
Covington / GRIII
Draymond / Spellman
Looney / WCS

Not a bad reboot

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Wed Aug 7, 2019 6:55 pm
by nate33
pcbothwel wrote:
nate33 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:I think trading Thompson instead of Russell would be the logical move, provided Russell fits in well and they decide to trade one of them. I don't think they have to trade anyone, though. I don't see them as deeper, yet. A lot of their guys have a lot to learn on the defensive side of the ball to become NBA defenders, and their offensive talents drop off extremely quickly. Still, they aren't a bad team. I don't think they're so far off Houston. The Rockets don't really have any big wing defenders, either - PJ Tucker is fine but isn't any better than Draymond. It's going to be interesting watching the forwards on the LA teams go up against the guards of the Rockets and Warriors this season.

I disagree totally. The Warriors are in win-now mode. They have maybe 3 years left before Curry and Green decline enough to take them out of contention. They're better off with a fully polished and playoff-seasoned two-way player in Klay Thompson, rather than Russell, who is still unproven on offense, lousy on D, and has had only one All-Star caliber year by virtue of making a whole lot of midrange jumpers - typically an unsustainable strategy.

The road to a championship runs through either Kawhi or Lebron, until proven otherwise. To beat them, you need a rangy defensive forward to slow them down. Golden State doesn't have anyone like that.


I think you can damn near book it that Russell will be traded to the TWolves for Covington and Teague.
Curry / Teague
Klay / Burks
Covington / GRIII
Draymond / Spellman
Looney / WCS

Not a bad reboot

Agreed. I think that is the foundation of the trade. I think Minnesota needs to give up a bit more - maybe a pick. Then the Warriors can take that pick and Teague's expiring contract and use it to find one more good player.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 8, 2019 2:30 pm
by Ruzious
nate33 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:I think trading Thompson instead of Russell would be the logical move, provided Russell fits in well and they decide to trade one of them. I don't think they have to trade anyone, though. I don't see them as deeper, yet. A lot of their guys have a lot to learn on the defensive side of the ball to become NBA defenders, and their offensive talents drop off extremely quickly. Still, they aren't a bad team. I don't think they're so far off Houston. The Rockets don't really have any big wing defenders, either - PJ Tucker is fine but isn't any better than Draymond. It's going to be interesting watching the forwards on the LA teams go up against the guards of the Rockets and Warriors this season.

I disagree totally. The Warriors are in win-now mode. They have maybe 3 years left before Curry and Green decline enough to take them out of contention. They're better off with a fully polished and playoff-seasoned two-way player in Klay Thompson, rather than Russell, who is still unproven on offense, lousy on D, and has had only one All-Star caliber year by virtue of making a whole lot of midrange jumpers - typically an unsustainable strategy.

The road to a championship runs through either Kawhi or Lebron, until proven otherwise. To beat them, you need a rangy defensive forward to slow them down. Golden State doesn't have anyone like that.

I'd agree with you on the win-now thing, but... Thompson will be trying to come back from a serious knee injury. Even if he's 100% healthy for the playoffs, he's almost certainly not going to be his old self in the playoffs. It takes time to get comfortable with the knee even after it's healed.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:01 pm
by nate33
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:I think trading Thompson instead of Russell would be the logical move, provided Russell fits in well and they decide to trade one of them. I don't think they have to trade anyone, though. I don't see them as deeper, yet. A lot of their guys have a lot to learn on the defensive side of the ball to become NBA defenders, and their offensive talents drop off extremely quickly. Still, they aren't a bad team. I don't think they're so far off Houston. The Rockets don't really have any big wing defenders, either - PJ Tucker is fine but isn't any better than Draymond. It's going to be interesting watching the forwards on the LA teams go up against the guards of the Rockets and Warriors this season.

I disagree totally. The Warriors are in win-now mode. They have maybe 3 years left before Curry and Green decline enough to take them out of contention. They're better off with a fully polished and playoff-seasoned two-way player in Klay Thompson, rather than Russell, who is still unproven on offense, lousy on D, and has had only one All-Star caliber year by virtue of making a whole lot of midrange jumpers - typically an unsustainable strategy.

The road to a championship runs through either Kawhi or Lebron, until proven otherwise. To beat them, you need a rangy defensive forward to slow them down. Golden State doesn't have anyone like that.

I'd agree with you on the win-now thing, but... Thompson will be trying to come back from a serious knee injury. Even if he's 100% healthy for the playoffs, he's almost certainly not going to be his old self in the playoffs. It takes time to get comfortable with the knee even after it's healed.

Medical technology really is phenomenal these days. I had ACL replacement surgery 8 years ago. I dumped my crutches 2 days after the surgery and was able to walk without a limp 7 days after the surgery. I was running in 3 months and playing basketball again in 5 months. I felt back at full strength around the 7th month. I was 39 years old at the time.

Klay is younger and will ultimately have more time to heal. He'll have about 8 months of healing when he gets back on the court, and almost 11 months by the time the playoffs start. Klay also seems to be a bit of a freak with his ability to avoid and/or recover from injuries.

I think it's possible Klay may be pretty close to 100% by the time the playoffs roll around. I think Golden State's bigger concern is that Curry and Draymond may be run down after having to bear so much of the load during the regular season. If they do trade Russell, it probably makes sense to wait for the Trade Deadline. That way, they can ride Russell's offense for much of the regular season and try to keep Curry's minutes down. They can trade Russell just as Klay gets back.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:17 pm
by Ruzious
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:I disagree totally. The Warriors are in win-now mode. They have maybe 3 years left before Curry and Green decline enough to take them out of contention. They're better off with a fully polished and playoff-seasoned two-way player in Klay Thompson, rather than Russell, who is still unproven on offense, lousy on D, and has had only one All-Star caliber year by virtue of making a whole lot of midrange jumpers - typically an unsustainable strategy.

The road to a championship runs through either Kawhi or Lebron, until proven otherwise. To beat them, you need a rangy defensive forward to slow them down. Golden State doesn't have anyone like that.

I'd agree with you on the win-now thing, but... Thompson will be trying to come back from a serious knee injury. Even if he's 100% healthy for the playoffs, he's almost certainly not going to be his old self in the playoffs. It takes time to get comfortable with the knee even after it's healed.

Medical technology really is phenomenal these days. I had ACL replacement surgery 8 years ago. I dumped my crutches 2 days after the surgery and was able to walk without a limp 7 days after the surgery. I was running in 3 months and playing basketball again in 5 months. I felt back at full strength around the 7th month. I was 39 years old at the time.

Klay is younger and will ultimately have more time to heal. He'll have about 8 months of healing when he gets back on the court, and almost 11 months by the time the playoffs start. Klay also seems to be a bit of a freak with his ability to avoid and/or recover from injuries.

I think it's possible Klay may be pretty close to 100% by the time the playoffs roll around. I think Golden State's bigger concern is that Curry and Draymond may be run down after having to bear so much of the load during the regular season. If they do trade Russell, it probably makes sense to wait for the Trade Deadline. That way, they can ride Russell's offense for much of the regular season and try to keep Curry's minutes down. They can trade Russell just as Klay gets back.

We're simply not going to agree on this one. Playing basketball at your level takes a lot less effort than playing at the top level in the world - and Thompson's a guy who's always working hard to get open - which requires constant planting and cutting. Being a former (very much former unfortunately) long-distance runner myself who couldn't physically handle playing basketball more than once a week, I know running is nowhere near as stressful on the joints as playing basketball. For me, it was chronic achilles tendonitis - I literally could not plant my foot in basketball, but I still ran marathons. It'd be unbeleivable to expect that he'll be making as sharp cuts next season. And that puts more presure on Curry - which was already a problem in the 2019 finals. We'll see.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:22 pm
by I_Like_Dirt
More than that, Thompson has been gradually declining, on average, for a few seasons now. Russell was arguably quite a bit more impactful than him last season. Danny Green proved last season that a player can suddenly turn back the clock at some point but I'm not at all certain that this season is a great bet for Klay to do that. And if we're talking about 2 or 3 seasons, and one is out the window for Klay already, then the balance tips decidedly towards Russell.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:54 pm
by LyricalRico
Not a "move" but figured I'd put it here - Cousins out with a torn ACL. To think, he was literally a couple months away from a potential $200M payday. At this point I can't imagine he recoups any significant percentage of that. (Same with our own IT - lost probably $100M because of terrible timing on the hip injury.)

Edit to add: I guess the "move" part is to come. What to the Lakers do now? DMC was a potentially a big contributor on the cheap. Who are they going to find that will give them anything close to that at a price they can afford?

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:44 pm
by Ruzious
LyricalRico wrote:Not a "move" but figured I'd put it here - Cousins out with a torn ACL. To think, he was literally a couple months away from a potential $200M payday. At this point I can't imagine he recoups any significant percentage of that. (Same with our own IT - lost probably $100M because of terrible timing on the hip injury.)

Edit to add: I guess the "move" part is to come. What to the Lakers do now? DMC was a potentially a big contributor on the cheap. Who are they going to find that will give them anything close to that at a price they can afford?

It may sound harsh, but I don't think that hurts the Lakers even a little bit. Hell, even when he was in his prime, he was a bad fit with Anthony Davis. NO stunk with he and Davis putting up ridiculous numbers. Honestly, LAL is better off with JaVale McGee playing when they use their big lineup. And there are lots of bigs still without a team. Maybe they give a chance to someone like Deyonta Davis. Maybe Ryan Anderson makes a comeback? Faried? Christian Wood? Joakim Noah? Amir Johnson? Too bad Nerlens Noel signed with OKC - Noel followed Anthony Davis at Kentucky - who followed Cousins.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:44 pm
by nate33
LyricalRico wrote:Not a "move" but figured I'd put it here - Cousins out with a torn ACL. To think, he was literally a couple months away from a potential $200M payday. At this point I can't imagine he recoups any significant percentage of that. (Same with our own IT - lost probably $100M because of terrible timing on the hip injury.)

Edit to add: I guess the "move" part is to come. What to the Lakers do now? DMC was a potentially a big contributor on the cheap. Who are they going to find that will give them anything close to that at a price they can afford?

Man, that really sucks.

I never liked Cousins much as a basketball player, but I feel total sympathy for him after this string of injuries. Basically, he's had the 3 worst injuries you can get as a basketball player, all in the past 2 years: Achilles tear, quadriceps tear, and ACL tear.

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:35 pm
by gtn130
Jamaaliver wrote:Controversial statement alert: I think Ben Simmons is a tremendous talent on par with Giannis. But he's at the wrong position. He needs to be playing PF or C surrounded by 3 & D wings and a floor spacing Center. Simmons would be tremendous as a point forward, abusing switches in the paint, taking bigger/slower defenders off the dribble and as a screen setter for his guards in DHO situations.

He should be used more akin to Draymond, Zion and Giannis.


I thought this was conventional wisdom lol. Of course he should be used in the Giannis role

Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:22 pm
by I_Like_Dirt
nate33 wrote:Man, that really sucks.

I never liked Cousins much as a basketball player, but I feel total sympathy for him after this string of injuries. Basically, he's had the 3 worst injuries you can get as a basketball player, all in the past 2 years: Achilles tear, quadriceps tear, and ACL tear.


Yeah, I don't think his loss hurts the Lakers much this season at all. The human side of things is really sad, though. All the injuries are just awful for Cousins.