ImageImageImageImageImage

Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE)

Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico

User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,610
And1: 8,968
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#161 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Jan 6, 2019 8:27 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Basically in a league that is moving towards Positionless basketball, you want a whole team of Kawhi Leonards. Players who can dominate at both ends of the floor and not just match up but overwhelm whatever player they are faced against. No matter the 'position'. Zion is that player in this draft.


I think Barrett is that player in this draft. Zion isn't the player that will be able to flip to any position on either end of the floor so easily. He's going to be closer to the Amare/Griffin/Barkley part of the spectrum in the pros. Doesn't mean Zion should or shouldn't go first overall, but he isn't the positionless superpower you're suggesting.
Hmmm

Barrett is a volume shooter.

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,610
And1: 8,968
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#162 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Jan 6, 2019 8:29 pm

doclinkin wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Basically in a league that is moving towards Positionless basketball, you want a whole team of Kawhi Leonards. Players who can dominate at both ends of the floor and not just match up but overwhelm whatever player they are faced against. No matter the 'position'. Zion is that player in this draft.


I think Barrett is that player in this draft. Zion isn't the player that will be able to flip to any position on either end of the floor so easily. He's going to be closer to the Amare/Griffin/Barkley part of the spectrum in the pros. Doesn't mean Zion should or shouldn't go first overall, but he isn't the positionless superpower you're suggesting.


I agree Barrett is also a multitool player. Already skilled and ready to play. I think Zion's strength and athleticism means his upside lets him match against players significantly taller if not larger. Basically while Barrett is ahead of Zion and will reach his peak quicker, I've never seen a player with Zion's combo of compact power, density, quick twitch reactions, so that I have no idea what his upside may be.

The coachability factor. I've been surprised by his passing and feel for the game and the humility to play along side players who are also talented. We have seen players with incredible athleticism who flamed out, but Zion has already made tweaks to his game. Amare, and Barkley didn't display the handle that he does at this age. The passing. The recognition. Griffin, maybe, but Griffin has an arrogance that I don't see in Zion, where I get the feel the kid appreciates the game and despite having been a superstar since his junior year of high school he is willing to be a teammate and student of the game. To add to his game and improve. That is how potential is realized. Constant improvement.

But for real, you wouldn't take Blake Griffin with a crossover and better defense? And fewer fights started? If Blake Griffin were in this draft I'd take him.
If Blake were in this draft I bet he'd be the first player selected based on measurables.



Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,610
And1: 8,968
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#163 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Jan 6, 2019 8:36 pm

Ruzious wrote:
queridiculo wrote:Guy I really like is Gonzaga's Rui Hachimura as PF or small ball 5.

Reminds me a bit of Antetokounmpo with his ability to handle the rock and get to the hoop at that size, and while he's a bit of a project he's got great instincts and is an incredibly smooth athlete for a big.

Great feet, slides well on defense and has impeccable timing on challenging shooters.

I think the kid is going to turn some heads when he goes pro.



- check the sequence at 3:04. some incredible defense against a guard, great slide and recovery after getting turned inside out.
- same at 3:45, really understands the angles on defense, the way he opens his hips to recover after biting on the inside out is impressive.

I remember seeing him 2 years ago and seeing he's got some good natural scoring ability, but he's only so-so at most things and not particularly big or athletic. But every time I've seen him since, it looks like he's a little better at everthing, and he's defivintely worked on his body - he's so much stronger than he used to be. And yeah, there's a similarity there to Giannis - who was a fairly skinny raw player with some interesting skills as a rookie at Milwaukee - but had an unmatched work ethic. He doesn't have the crazy length/athleticism combo that Giannis has, but he's become a much better all-around prospect and more of an athlete than I thought he'd be, and he can flat out score.
Ruzious wrote:Btw, as crazy talented Duke is, I think Gonzaga is right up there in talent. Killian Tillie has been out for the season so far, but if he's taken the off-time to work on his body and getting stronger, it might be worth it, because he's a 3 point shooting good defensive PF that just needs to get stronger. Brandon Clarke is the most fun to watch Gonzaga player, but at maybe 6'8 215 PF, folks doubt he has an NBA position. Meanwhile, he just keeps on producing at a tremendous rate. Maybe he can be a Dennis Rodman type in the NBA. Zach Norvell, Jr is a prototypical shooting guard who just needs a bit of improvement on his 3 ball to be a sure 1st rounder. And of course, Rui has develeoped into a legit #1 offensive option. When they need a bucket (which isn't often), they run the offense through him.
doclinkin wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Basically while Barrett is ahead of Zion and will reach his peak quicker, I've never seen a player with Zion's combo of compact power, density, quick twitch reactions, so that I have no idea what his upside may be.

The coachability factor. I've been surprised by his passing and feel for the game and the humility to play along side players who are also talented. We have seen players with incredible athleticism who flamed out, but Zion has already made tweaks to his game. Amare, and Barkley didn't display the handle that he does at this age. The passing. The recognition. Griffin, maybe, but Griffin has an arrogance that I don't see in Zion, where I get the feel the kid appreciates the game and despite having been a superstar since his junior year of high school he is willing to be a teammate and student of the game. To add to his game and improve. That is how potential is realized. Constant improvement.



I don't think flaming out is going to be an issue for Zion. His athleticism is too much. Griffin didn't have that same arrogance he does now at a young age. It doesn't seem uncommon for players to gain that arrogance as they get older, or perhaps to put it better, for their arrogance to start manifesting itself differently.

You're never going to get a perfect comparison for any prospect but I picked those guys for a reason. I'm also not quite sure if you're understating some of those other guys or overstating Zion. Barkley was an absolutely unreal athlete who was averaging 23/15/5 and leading the league in TS% in his 3rd season. It was a different league back then so he wasn't challenged to figure out his 3-point range the same way he would be today but he had range and hit a few 3s even in his day, shooting 34% from 3 in his best season.

The concern I have with Zion is that he's too physically dominant. He simply doesn't have to be intuitive. Occasionally you get a Lebron from those ranks but that's really, really rare and I don't quite see Lebron's level of all-around awesomeness in Zion. Zion is still going to be able to overwhelm opponents in the NBA, too. He's that good. That also has it's downside. The longer he waits to evolve his game the less likely he is to actually reach his potential. The superstars of the modern game are all players that have continued learning and changing their games to evolve as the game has evolved and adapt to any potential challenge they might face. Zion's physical abilities and current skillset are enough that I'm more confident he will be a star than any other player in the draft (health permitting). I'm less confident in his ability to be a superstar than some of the others out there because he's basically too good too soon, if that makes sense.

And there are a few signs there already, at least in my view. He's only averaging 26 mpg right now. Part of that is his team is that good but Barrett and Tre Jones are both averaging significantly more minutes for the same team. I'm not sure if it's conditioning or matchups or a combination of both but it's pretty clear coach K believes that he isn't ready to play that many minutes just yet, either.


Check the stats then:
Unreal athlete Charles Barkley as a freshman.
Blake Griffin at Oklahoma
Zion as a freshman

Zion: same minutes, same rebounding (despite superior talent next to him), more blocks, more assists, better FT%, fewer fouls, better FG%, and averaging over 2 steals a game.

I had the same question marks about Zion when he was dominating high school kids. Every few years you get a James 'Flight" White who astounds with their hops and airtime etc, but who has no effect otherwise since they have no feel for the game. BBIQ is as much a talent as the physical measurables. I'm always skeptical of the physical prodigies and look for evidence of the 'love of the game' stats that show they care more about the win/loss column than their own personal fame. If the mental aspect were not key then JaVale McGee would have been a HOF player (I've never seen a player as long and athletic as Epic Vale, you will never see anyone match his dunks from the contest where Blake Griffin and the sponsors prop robbed him of his rightful glory).

But so far I see little of that in Zion. I've been surprised at how he has adapted to playing with players almost as heavily hyped as he is. He has no problem sharing the ball. No problem deferring in the moment, and a few times a game he surprises with his heads up recognition of the game. The right pass. A key deflection. A shift to cut off an angle.

The stats I look for as BBIQ evidence: defensive rebounding (relative to position, especially from non Bigs), assists (from non ball handlers) and steals (from bigs especially). This last is where I can see Zion stand out. Defensive boards are going to be easy for him, even sharing the stat with a player like Barrett who hoovers up many boards as well. Ditto assists, here he could accidentally luck into a few assists a game simply by the ridiculous and unfair talent level of the players around him. But the steals jump out to me. The games and highlights Ive seen Zion has forced steals not by gambling off his man but by quick hands and smarts and reaction time. He sees the game. And interviews suggest he is humble and eager to learn and willing to defer and not let his ego get in the way. I liked Blake Griffin for his athletic arrogance, but he absolutely displayed it on court in college. Picking up techs and initiating fights and playing dirty, playing bully ball, happy to play the villain role. Zion hasn't shown that.

So far he has answered all but one question of mine going into the season: can he hit an outside shot. This is the one area where I'm looking for evidence that he has been working. And its the key reason he is playing fewer minutes under Coach K. He needs a three point shot. If not then teams can pack it in and play off him and sets become trickier for other players. Still. His FT% suggests his shot isn't irreparably broken. His jumper from closer in looks competent, he just never has needed an outside shot before. He needs the reps, and the desire to work on it outside of games. From hearing him talk he seems like the sort who will absolutely put in the effort to improve there.

Look we'd be in a great position if we had the lotto option to decide between Barrett and Zion. Both will be successful in the league. And Barrett will probably be a plug and play star wherever he lands. I'm just saying, if we are talking raw talent equivalent to: 'Charles Barkley with quicker lateral footwork and better hands' or 'Blake Griffin, with better defense' -- then I'm taking that player every time.
Clark is like Richaun Holmes and Larry Nance, Jr.

Barrett and Zion both probably end up HOF players. Neither will miss.

Hachimura, is an interesting player. How does he compare to Jalen Smith? Bruno Fernandez? Ethan Happ? Dedrick Lawson?

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,610
And1: 8,968
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#164 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Jan 6, 2019 8:39 pm

Ruzious wrote:I probably mentioned him before, but if we get an extra late lotto or mid-first rounder, I'd be inclined to use it on Darius Garland of Vandy. He's out for the season with a meniscus tear and is lacking in size and athleticism, but his skill set is tremendous, and he's quick. I think he's a better prospect than Trae Young is/was.
So are a couple others IMO. Shamorie Ponds is underrated. Markus Howard can ball.

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app
Bye bye Beal.
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#165 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 7, 2019 3:30 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Clark is like Richaun Holmes and Larry Nance, Jr.

Barrett and Zion both probably end up HOF players. Neither will miss.

Hachimura, is an interesting player. How does he compare to Jalen Smith? Bruno Fernandez? Ethan Happ? Dedrick Lawson?

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

If Clark was 2 inches taller, he'd be a lottery pick.

Good question comparing Rui to Happ and Lawson. Smith and Fernando are more classic athletic studs than the other 3. Rui, Happ, and Lawson are all roughly 6'9, 235ish. None are great athletes, but Rui has the most athletic upside of those 3, and he's on another level as far as being a pure scorer, Really, all of them still haven't proved they are 3 point shooting threats in the NBA. Happ is one of those short-armed players that gets ignored, but he's got Draymond Green type stats, 4.7 assists and 10.2 rebounds per game. And while he lacks length and athleticism and isn't as strong as Green, he's got quick hands on defense. If he develops a 3 point shot, he will be effective in the NBA in the right situation.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#166 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 7, 2019 8:02 pm

Dat2U wrote:Outside of Zion I think the draft is pretty weak. Even R.J. is a bit overrated IMO.

Yeah, I'm wondering now how I thought RJ was close. RJ's good, but It's no contest - Zion owns this draft. RJ takes about 7 shots more per game than Zion and can't touch Zion's efficiency. And as Doc pointed out, Zion's defense is suprisingly outstanding - despited his ordinary height. He's a phenom.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 52,610
And1: 8,968
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#167 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jan 7, 2019 8:35 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Clark is like Richaun Holmes and Larry Nance, Jr.

Barrett and Zion both probably end up HOF players. Neither will miss.

Hachimura, is an interesting player. How does he compare to Jalen Smith? Bruno Fernandez? Ethan Happ? Dedrick Lawson?

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

If Clark was 2 inches taller, he'd be a lottery pick.

Good question comparing Rui to Happ and Lawson. Smith and Fernando are more classic athletic studs than the other 3. Rui, Happ, and Lawson are all roughly 6'9, 235ish. None are great athletes, but Rui has the most athletic upside of those 3, and he's on another level as far as being a pure scorer, Really, all of them still haven't proved they are 3 point shooting threats in the NBA. Happ is one of those short-armed players that gets ignored, but he's got Draymond Green type stats, 4.7 assists and 10.2 rebounds per game. And while he lacks length and athleticism and isn't as strong as Green, he's got quick hands on defense. If he develops a 3 point shot, he will be effective in the NBA in the right situation.


Happ shows up so well statistically that I have a hard time imagining that he will not succeed. Guys like Mike Muscala stick in the league. A more athletic John Collins had stats that belied his short length on measurable data that made his draft stock slip. Ethan Happ, sorry for the obvious stereotype comparison, has to be at least as good as Fabricio Oberto was. I would LOVE to see him picked up in late round one or round two.

Rui Hachimura is pretty near can't-miss serviceable, at the very least.
Bye bye Beal.
User avatar
zero2hero
Senior
Posts: 633
And1: 487
Joined: Jan 06, 2011
         

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#168 » by zero2hero » Mon Jan 7, 2019 9:13 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Outside of Zion I think the draft is pretty weak. Even R.J. is a bit overrated IMO.

Yeah, I'm wondering now how I thought RJ was close. RJ's good, but It's no contest - Zion owns this draft. RJ takes about 7 shots more per game than Zion and can't touch Zion's efficiency. And as Doc pointed out, Zion's defend is suprisingly outstanding - despited his ordinary height. He's a phenom.


Yeah - people like to nitpick that he's 1 or 2 inches below his ideal size for his position. It's not like he can offset that by being arguably the most athletic basketball player on planet Earth or anything.

I also notice that a lot of narratives surrounding Zion seem to try to pigeonhole him into the "super athlete, not good at anything else" mold although when you take a look at his career so far, nothing seems to suggest that at all. He used to be a non-existent shooter in HS, but now is a serviceable one. There's no reason to think he won't improve certain facets of his game needed to succeed.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 23,492
And1: 7,062
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#169 » by Dat2U » Wed Jan 9, 2019 3:31 pm

So question for everyone.

How good would the 2019-20 Wizards be if they got lucky and landed Zion, kept Wall, Beal & Porter and re-signed Sato & Bryant?

How far away would we be from competing for a spot in the Finals?
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#170 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 9, 2019 3:46 pm

Dat2U wrote:So question for everyone.

How good would the 2019-20 Wizards be if they got lucky and landed Zion, kept Wall, Beal & Porter and re-signed Sato & Bryant?

How far away would we be from competing for a spot in the Finals?

Championship contender within 2 years. Zion might be having the best college season of all time, and he shows zero signs of slowing down. Is it time to put him in the same class that Anthony Davis was as a prospect? I don't think he's Lebron James level, but... he's getting closer.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
80sballboy
RealGM
Posts: 23,745
And1: 5,650
Joined: Jul 15, 2006
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#171 » by 80sballboy » Wed Jan 9, 2019 3:50 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:So question for everyone.

How good would the 2019-20 Wizards be if they got lucky and landed Zion, kept Wall, Beal & Porter and re-signed Sato & Bryant?

How far away would we be from competing for a spot in the Finals?

Championship contender within 2 years. Zion might be having the best college season of all time, and he shows zero signs of slowing down. Is it time to put him in the same class that Anthony Davis was as a prospect? I don't think he's Lebron James level, but... he's getting closer.


He's a man playing amongst boys right now. Whether he can do that at the next level playing against more length and size without a consistent 3-point shot? If he improves his shot at the line and 3-point line, he'll be unguardable.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 66,783
And1: 19,069
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#172 » by nate33 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:17 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:So question for everyone.

How good would the 2019-20 Wizards be if they got lucky and landed Zion, kept Wall, Beal & Porter and re-signed Sato & Bryant?

How far away would we be from competing for a spot in the Finals?

Championship contender within 2 years.

Not if Wall never recovers to be the player he was in 2016. If Wall continues to look like the player of this year and last year, then the team is merely a 2nd round finalist until Wall can be replaced.

Wall would need to devote himself to being a pure set-up man who is content to have the 4th highest shot total on the team while devoting his energy to pushing the pace, rebounding, and defense. Wall would have to try and emulate Jason Kidd, not Russell Westbrook. The Wall we know will end up taking too many low efficiency shots that should have gone to Porter or Zion.
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,579
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#173 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:34 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:So question for everyone.

How good would the 2019-20 Wizards be if they got lucky and landed Zion, kept Wall, Beal & Porter and re-signed Sato & Bryant?

How far away would we be from competing for a spot in the Finals?

Championship contender within 2 years.

Not if Wall never recovers to be the player he was in 2016. If Wall continues to look like the player of this year and last year, then the team is merely a 2nd round finalist until Wall can be replaced.

Wall would need to devote himself to being a pure set-up man who is content to have the 4th highest shot total on the team while devoting his energy to pushing the pace, rebounding, and defense. Wall would have to try and emulate Jason Kidd, not Russell Westbrook. The Wall we know will end up taking too many low efficiency shots that should have gone to Porter or Zion.

Interesting thought about emulating Kidd. Kidd was content to become a role player toward the end of his career - and won a championship with Dirk, Chandler, Jason Terry and old friend DeShawn Stevenson. It'd require Wall to play consistent physical defense - rather than his current risk-taking style. If we got Zion, Wall would have to defer to him as the on-court leader at some point.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Kanyewest
General Manager
Posts: 9,643
And1: 2,330
Joined: Jul 05, 2004

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#174 » by Kanyewest » Wed Jan 9, 2019 7:29 pm

Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Championship contender within 2 years.

Not if Wall never recovers to be the player he was in 2016. If Wall continues to look like the player of this year and last year, then the team is merely a 2nd round finalist until Wall can be replaced.

Wall would need to devote himself to being a pure set-up man who is content to have the 4th highest shot total on the team while devoting his energy to pushing the pace, rebounding, and defense. Wall would have to try and emulate Jason Kidd, not Russell Westbrook. The Wall we know will end up taking too many low efficiency shots that should have gone to Porter or Zion.

Interesting thought about emulating Kidd. Kidd was content to become a role player toward the end of his career - and won a championship with Dirk, Chandler, Jason Terry and old friend DeShawn Stevenson. It'd require Wall to play consistent physical defense - rather than his current risk-taking style. If we got Zion, Wall would have to defer to him as the on-court leader at some point.


I have my doubts that Wall is not going to be ready to take that role soon. Jason Kidd was in his late 30s at that stage in his career. When Jason Kidd was in his late 20s like Wall, his teams were going deep in the playoffs including the NBA Finals and losing in 7 games to the Detroit Pistons that went on to win the title. Kidd had already made 3 all NBA 1st teams and an all NBA 2nd team, and 3 all defensive first teams when he was Wall's age. I think moreso Wall has to be even better than Jason Kidd offensively because he isn't as capable on the defensive end, plus the emphasis on 3 point shooting.

Ideally, Wall needs to take a smaller role on this team going forward- playing somewhere in the neighborhood of 26-30 minutes per game because he doesn't seem to have enough energy to play on both ends including moving without the ball and guarding his man more consistent rather than gambline for steals. And it might be wise to rest him occasionally like the Spurs. That being said, Wall might not accept it nor do expect Washington to foster that kind of environment.
User avatar
doclinkin
RealGM
Posts: 13,125
And1: 5,271
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: .wizuds.

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#175 » by doclinkin » Wed Jan 9, 2019 10:16 pm

Dat2U wrote:So question for everyone.

How good would the 2019-20 Wizards be if they got lucky and landed Zion, kept Wall, Beal & Porter and re-signed Sato & Bryant?

How far away would we be from competing for a spot in the Finals?


Stop it, stop it, stop. My heart can't handle the happy dreams. Sigh.
NatP4
RealGM
Posts: 13,681
And1: 5,223
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#176 » by NatP4 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 10:40 pm

Dat2U wrote:So question for everyone.

How good would the 2019-20 Wizards be if they got lucky and landed Zion, kept Wall, Beal & Porter and re-signed Sato & Bryant?

How far away would we be from competing for a spot in the Finals?


Which John Wall? They still gave Oubre away for absolutely nothing.

Wall Sato
Beal
Otto Brown Jr
Zion Robinson
Bryant Howard

I mean, Zion is so good that they probably would win the east with that roster. Wall-Beal-Sato-Porter-Zion would probably be the best 5 man lineup in the NBA.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 21,928
And1: 7,855
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#177 » by payitforward » Wed Jan 9, 2019 11:58 pm

What a great job you guys are doing analyzing & prepping for this draft! I'm impressed. I hope to hell someone in Wizards FO is paying attention: you guys might save their jobs!!
Breaking News: In a shocking development, Wizards owner Ted Leonsis has sold the NBA franchise to a consortium of participants in a discussion board devoted to the team on realgm.com. Details to follow....
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 23,492
And1: 7,062
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#178 » by Dat2U » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:20 am

Kanyewest wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:Not if Wall never recovers to be the player he was in 2016. If Wall continues to look like the player of this year and last year, then the team is merely a 2nd round finalist until Wall can be replaced.

Wall would need to devote himself to being a pure set-up man who is content to have the 4th highest shot total on the team while devoting his energy to pushing the pace, rebounding, and defense. Wall would have to try and emulate Jason Kidd, not Russell Westbrook. The Wall we know will end up taking too many low efficiency shots that should have gone to Porter or Zion.

Interesting thought about emulating Kidd. Kidd was content to become a role player toward the end of his career - and won a championship with Dirk, Chandler, Jason Terry and old friend DeShawn Stevenson. It'd require Wall to play consistent physical defense - rather than his current risk-taking style. If we got Zion, Wall would have to defer to him as the on-court leader at some point.


I have my doubts that Wall is not going to be ready to take that role soon. Jason Kidd was in his late 30s at that stage in his career. When Jason Kidd was in his late 20s like Wall, his teams were going deep in the playoffs including the NBA Finals and losing in 7 games to the Detroit Pistons that went on to win the title. Kidd had already made 3 all NBA 1st teams and an all NBA 2nd team, and 3 all defensive first teams when he was Wall's age. I think moreso Wall has to be even better than Jason Kidd offensively because he isn't as capable on the defensive end, plus the emphasis on 3 point shooting.

Ideally, Wall needs to take a smaller role on this team going forward- playing somewhere in the neighborhood of 26-30 minutes per game because he doesn't seem to have enough energy to play on both ends including moving without the ball and guarding his man more consistent rather than gambline for steals. And it might be wise to rest him occasionally like the Spurs. That being said, Wall might not accept it nor do expect Washington to foster that kind of environment.


The first thing that Wall has to do is get himself in shape BEFORE training camp.

Wall has gotten away with being a fat ass in the summer playing himself into shape every year. He literally has a gut he picks up every summer.

But the last two years he hasn't been able to do it because as he gets older his body can no longer handle the weight combined with the workload.

Who in the hell supposedly puts on all this muscle when they know they've got a bad wheel and have been dealing with it for years? That's an Andray Blatche type move. Eat all summer, get fat and then claim it's all muscle.

Unless he starts paying attention to the obvious signs and begins treating the offseason seriously I will assume every season will be similar to the last two.

That said, if Wall does come into shape next training camp then hope springs eternal. Who knows, maybe landing Zion motivates him. I believe Zion's talent is so transcendent that Wall will have no choice but to relinquish shots and a starring role in time even if Wall is at his best.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 23,492
And1: 7,062
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#179 » by Dat2U » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:24 am

A couple of non-Zion guys that I like so far, in no particular order.

Ja Morant
Jarrett Culver
Shamorie Ponds
Tyrese Haliburton
Kevin Porter
NatP4
RealGM
Posts: 13,681
And1: 5,223
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE) 

Post#180 » by NatP4 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:54 am

Jaxson Hayes

Return to Washington Wizards