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Political Roundtable Part XXIV

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1521 » by Fairview4Life » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:36 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Anyway, the SCO statement is pretty nuanced and neither Trump nor Cohen ever really denied the claims. It sounds like the impetus of the Buzzfeed report is true but they messed up some sourcing related to Mueller.

This will be resolved pretty quickly when Cohen testifies in a few weeks


Yeah, looking forward to that. Hope Trump's threats to his family don't scare him off.


Mueller can, and probably will, prevent Cohen from spilling everything.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/01/19/peter-carr-speaks/
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1522 » by closg00 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:53 pm

Mueller is trying to hold everything together and not have news stories get ahead of his report/indictments, it's a tightrope.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1523 » by Zonkerbl » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:41 pm

closg00 wrote:Mueller is trying to hold everything together and not have news stories get ahead of his report/indictments, it's a tightrope.


If the BF report is in fact inaccurate I think Mueller just did us all a huge favor acting to nip this in the bud as quickly as he did.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1524 » by Zonkerbl » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:50 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
dobrojim wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:[snip]
So, this is a state issue. And yes, the Ds in CA have been stealing for decades. You can't pin this on the GOP - at all.

And back on topic. What do the Ds in CA say to this issue. TAX THE RICH. But as cited, they already have 13% tax income tax rate.

My point on the topic - floating out 70% tax rates is pure demagoguery. ESPECIALLY in terms of the GND that they are floating out. It is going to take waaaaaay higher tax rates than they are proposing.

And while your arguments on the Bush, Obama and Trump stimulus bills and ongoing wars are correct, they are very much ancillary to defending this ridiculous position.

I'd say they over-promised which done knowingly (check) is completely irresponsible.

What was it that you believe they stole and who did they steal it from?

Most definitely known. And they stole from future students.


What's the difference between stealing and borrowing from future generations? I don't understand why you're singling out Dems when the GOP is just as guilty of this in the states they control.

It kind of feels like you're arguing poor people should pay for the $1.5 trillion finance gap the GOP just created. The super wealthy can pay us all back for their thievery, with a 70% marginal tax rate, or we can stop bombing the crap out of other countries. Unless there's some other option to get the billionaires to put the money back in the pot that they just stole that you know about.

Making the poor pay for billionaire theft just doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1525 » by dobrojim » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:40 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:George Will’s anti Trump evisceration in the Post today is clinical.

I’d post the link if I could figure out how to do so.

It’s a must read from an incredibly level headed and principled conservative.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-a-misery-it-must-be-to-be-donald-trump/2019/01/18/d0e05eea-1a82-11e9-8813-cb9dec761e73_story.html?utm_term=.cbe4da02a0a2
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1526 » by dckingsfan » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:59 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
dobrojim wrote:I'd say they over-promised which done knowingly (check) is completely irresponsible.

What was it that you believe they stole and who did they steal it from?

Most definitely known. And they stole from future students.

What's the difference between stealing and borrowing from future generations? I don't understand why you're singling out Dems when the GOP is just as guilty of this in the states they control.

It kind of feels like you're arguing poor people should pay for the $1.5 trillion finance gap the GOP just created. The super wealthy can pay us all back for their thievery, with a 70% marginal tax rate, or we can stop bombing the crap out of other countries. Unless there's some other option to get the billionaires to put the money back in the pot that they just stole that you know about.

Making the poor pay for billionaire theft just doesn't make sense to me.

There is no difference between stealing and borrowing from future generations in this context.

And you know that I am not singling out Ds. My argument (fx) was in response to the floating out of a 70% tax rate.

1) The 70% is demagoguing the rich because they are using this as a model for paying for GND. Which:
a) the 70% won't pay for the GND hence
b) they are kicking the costs down the road - like LAUSD.

Now you are moving this argument on me - are we discussing why I felt that floating out the 70% was wrongheaded (which I explained both in specifics and in long-term outcomes or are we discussing how to make a sustainable government.

It kind of feels like you are arguing that what they did previously with the LAUSD and what they are proposing on financing (not) the GND is good with you. Both of those along with this most recent tax stimulus have the same long-term affect.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1527 » by gtn130 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:22 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1528 » by Pointgod » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:10 am

gtn130 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Looks like all the Russiaphiles prematurely ejaculated their pants as usual.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1529 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:15 am

^^^will you just admit you are the same poster already. we all know you are...and if not? phew...meet up and just get a room already!

anyhow...the never trumpers are in!
Read on Twitter
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1530 » by stilldropin20 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:23 am

this is a great deal proposed by an incredible deal maker.

Read on Twitter
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1531 » by CobraCommander » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:10 am

stilldropin20 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:do i look like an NRA shill? I may be a 2A shill but i have no problem with smart tech on guns.

Look, a man or woman needs to be able to defend themselves and with deadly force if necessary.

Bottom line, you kill someone...you must be able to account for why in a court of law or at least during an investigation.

Believe it or not, privacy is actually an enemy of the people.

Privacy is trick played on the poor who literally have nothing to hide. it allows the wealthy to operate in stealth. :nod:


I only agree with like 30% of this.

But you get the +1 for openly acknowledging the hypocrisy and ineptitude of the NRA.


i lobbed that softball out there and put it just right in the liberal sweet spot....what is the 70% you disagree?

2A isn’t about protection against criminals...it’s about protection against the government...aka as the police and the military....all the 2a people forget that...
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1532 » by CobraCommander » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:14 am

stilldropin20 wrote:this is a great deal proposed by an incredible deal maker.

Read on Twitter



All of these points have already been rejected....it’s not great deal making to keep offering the same offer that someone already said no to...

And look—like I said...the whole wall thing is bs on both sides...I just see you giving credit for trump saying something illogical...again.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1533 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:16 am

CobraCommander wrote:2A isn’t about protection against criminals...it’s about protection against the government...aka as the police and the military....all the 2a people forget that...



That is indeed how it was intended (and how it was interpreted for the first 18 years of this country's history), but the waters have been greatly muddied over the last few decades.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1534 » by Pointgod » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:24 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:this is a great deal proposed by an incredible deal maker.

Read on Twitter



All of these points have already been rejected....it’s not great deal making to keep offering the same offer that someone already said no to...

And look—like I said...the whole wall thing is bs on both sides...I just see you giving credit for trump saying something illogical...again.


The offer is complete garbage. Only Trump could negotiate down a 25 billion dollar deal for the idiotic wall to less than 5 billion for the wall. Blame Mitch McConnell, he could open up the government tomorrow if he wanted to.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1535 » by Doug_Blew » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:33 pm

stilldropin20 wrote: You guys believe in the Santa Claus too? The easter bunny?

Not sure about the others, but the only thing i believe in is Big Foot
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1536 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:53 pm

Pointgod wrote:The offer is complete garbage. Only Trump could negotiate down a 25 billion dollar deal for the idiotic wall to less than 5 billion for the wall. Blame Mitch McConnell, he could open up the government tomorrow if he wanted to.

How many Rs would they need in the Senate to override a veto? I would guess 18 or so? I wonder if he feels he doesn't have it?

I wonder if the house has the votes to overcome a veto?

I don't know the answer to this... if it is just McConnell blocking the vote or he doesn't have the votes?

Either way, it would get interesting quickly.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1537 » by closg00 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:54 pm

I was surprised by how laughably bad Trumps proposal was, giving the DACA kids a 3-year extension?!!?!
My proposal is to have The Turtle open government for 2-weeks and start a clock for getting a bi-partisan deal done, force these clowns to hammer-out something. Nancy will have to give a little too.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1538 » by JWizmentality » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:56 pm

Doug_Blew wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote: You guys believe in the Santa Claus too? The easter bunny?

Not sure about the others, but the only thing i believe in is Big Foot


That better not be sarcasm. Big Foot IS real mofo. :evil:
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1539 » by closg00 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:42 pm

To listen to the talking head shows today (especially Fox), conservatives are spiking the football re: the SCO statement on the Buzz Feed article w/o discussing how that office carefully worded the statement. Buzz Feed stands by their reporting so it will be interesting to see Mueller's hand down the road.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIV 

Post#1540 » by Pointgod » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:48 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Pointgod wrote:The offer is complete garbage. Only Trump could negotiate down a 25 billion dollar deal for the idiotic wall to less than 5 billion for the wall. Blame Mitch McConnell, he could open up the government tomorrow if he wanted to.

How many Rs would they need in the Senate to override a veto? I would guess 18 or so? I wonder if he feels he doesn't have it?

I wonder if the house has the votes to overcome a veto?

I don't know the answer to this... if it is just McConnell blocking the vote or he doesn't have the votes?

Either way, it would get interesting quickly.


Here’s the thing he had the votes because the Senate already passed a budget with a billion for border security 100 to none. He’s just a cowardly chicken **** because he’s up for re-election and he doesn’t want to get primaried from the right.

He’s literally doing this in his own self interest, nothing else. If Democrats were smart they’d start publicly calling out McConnell and putting pressure on Republicans up for re-election in blue states in 2020. Republicans had their chance to pass legislation for the wall when they controlled all three branches of government, couldn’t get it done. It’s not going to happen over the course of a shutdown.

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