Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[itlnsunsfan]

No. Teams don't normally trade young All-NBA players because it's almost impossible to get a fair return. Which is why a Beal trade is unlikely.

The nearest analogy I can think of is when Utah trade Deron Williams - an All-NBA player, but not quite in that A list of MVP caliber types. That's basically what Beal is. The only difference is that Beal is 25 now while Deron Williams was 28 when the trade was made. So Beal arguably has even more value.

The Williams trade was made in 2012. Utah got the prior season's #3 over pick (Derrick Favors), the 2012 #3 pick, and a future 1st which turned out to be the 2014 #21 pick. They also got a competent veteran player in Devin Harris (11 points, 5 assists, PER of 16 at the time).

So I want two high lotto picks plus another pick. An analogous offer would be Ayton (about as well-regarded now as Favors was after his rookie year), your pick this year (assuming not Zion) and your 2021 pick. Since you don't want to give up Ayton, I want two future firsts to replace his value, which is how I got to my original proposal of the 2019, 2020, 2022 and 2024 picks.

You're also asking for Bridges and Warren. What about them?

And Deron Williams at the time was considered a top 2 pg in the league, along with Chris Paul, and a top 5 guard. As good as Brad is, I don't know if I would put Beal at that level.

I don't care about Bridges and Warren. You can keep them. But some filler is necessary and I don't want any negative value contracts.

And Beal is currently at Williams' level, if not better. Williams' stats were always a bit overrated because of Utah's system. They came back down to earth once he was traded. Beal is averaging 29, 7 and 6 since Wall went down, with a TS% of .600. He is the 2nd best SG in the league behind only Harden.

You can say Williams is overrated now, but no one knew that at the time. He was considered one of the very best players in the NBA and had been producing at that level for 5 years whereas, like you said, Brad has been putting up his best numbers for a relatively short period of time. Deron was a bust for the Nets. Phoenix would be opening themselves up to similar risk, if not more, since you're asking for more draft picks over a greater span of time, and Beal is only under contract for two more years. And I do love Beal, but him being the 2nd best SG in the league is arguable. Besides, PG, SG, the NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions, which is why I want to pair Beal with Booker. I can name 5 guards off the top of my head that I would prefer, no disrespect intended.

[DCZards]

You can say Williams is overrated now, but no one knew that at the time. He had been producing at that level for 5 years whereas, like you said, Brad has been putting up his best numbers for a relatively short period of time. Deron was a bust for the Nets. Phoenix would be opening themselves up to similar risk, if not more, since you're asking for more draft picks over a greater span of time, and Beal is only under contract for two more years. And I do love Beal, but him being the 2nd best SG in the league is arguable. Besides, PG, SG, the NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions, which is why I want to pair Beal with Booker. I can name 5 guards off the top of my head that I would prefer, no disrespect intended.

I don't know why the Suns would want to trade for Beal. Both he and Booker are SGs. Trading for Beal and expecting him to excel as a full-time PG would be a mistake. Plus, forcing Beal to play PG would likely piss him off.

[itlnsunsfan]

You can say Williams is overrated now, but no one knew that at the time. He had been producing at that level for 5 years whereas, like you said, Brad has been putting up his best numbers for a relatively short period of time. Deron was a bust for the Nets. Phoenix would be opening themselves up to similar risk, if not more, since you're asking for more draft picks over a greater span of time, and Beal is only under contract for two more years. And I do love Beal, but him being the 2nd best SG in the league is arguable. Besides, PG, SG, the NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions, which is why I want to pair Beal with Booker. I can name 5 guards off the top of my head that I would prefer, no disrespect intended.

I don't know why the Suns would want to trade for Beal. Both he and Booker are SGs. Trading for Beal and expecting him to excel as a full-time PG would be a mistake. Plus, forcing Beal to play PG would likely piss him off.

The NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions. Beal is a good passer and actually averages more assists than Steph Curry. Pairing him with Booker would be our version of the Klay and Steph dynamic.

[Illmatic12]

You're also asking for Bridges and Warren. What about them?

And Deron Williams at the time was considered a top 2 pg in the league, along with Chris Paul, and a top 5 guard. As good as Brad is, I don't know if I would put Beal at that level.

I don't care about Bridges and Warren. You can keep them. But some filler is necessary and I don't want any negative value contracts.

And Beal is currently at Williams' level, if not better. Williams' stats were always a bit overrated because of Utah's system. They came back down to earth once he was traded. Beal is averaging 29, 7 and 6 since Wall went down, with a TS% of .600. He is the 2nd best SG in the league behind only Harden.

You can say Williams is overrated now, but no one knew that at the time. He was considered one of the very best players in the NBA and had been producing at that level for 5 years whereas, like you said, Brad has been putting up his best numbers for a relatively short period of time. Deron was a bust for the Nets. Phoenix would be opening themselves up to similar risk, if not more, since you're asking for more draft picks over a greater span of time, and Beal is only under contract for two more years. And I do love Beal, but him being the 2nd best SG in the league is arguable. Besides, PG, SG, the NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions, which is why I want to pair Beal with Booker. I can name 5 guards off the top of my head that I would prefer, no disrespect intended.

Oh really.. who are the 5 guards? Curry and Harden are the only two guards I would trade Beal for today.. maybe I'd *consider* Doncic , if we're calling him a guard.

Considering durability, youth and playoff performance I don't see any other guard who has an argument.

I think some don't seem to grasp how good Beal is at his age. He didn't just start doing this recently. We're talking about a kid who posted a 23ppg on 60 TS% season at age 23. His first playoffs at age 20, he averaged 20/5/5 over two series vs Jimmy Butler and Paul George. This isn't anything new. He's got peak Ray Allen-level talent and you may want to adjust your mindset if you think Washington won't value him that way.

[DCZards]

You can say Williams is overrated now, but no one knew that at the time. He had been producing at that level for 5 years whereas, like you said, Brad has been putting up his best numbers for a relatively short period of time. Deron was a bust for the Nets. Phoenix would be opening themselves up to similar risk, if not more, since you're asking for more draft picks over a greater span of time, and Beal is only under contract for two more years. And I do love Beal, but him being the 2nd best SG in the league is arguable. Besides, PG, SG, the NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions, which is why I want to pair Beal with Booker. I can name 5 guards off the top of my head that I would prefer, no disrespect intended.

I don't know why the Suns would want to trade for Beal. Both he and Booker are SGs. Trading for Beal and expecting him to excel as a full-time PG would be a mistake. Plus, forcing Beal to play PG would likely piss him off.

The NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions. Beal is a good passer and actually averages more assists than Steph Curry. Pairing him with Booker would be our version of the Klay and Steph dynamic.

Beal doesn't have anywhere near the handle that Steph has. Again, Beal is not a PG. Trust me on that, I've watched BB play more than 400 games, including close to 200 in person.

[itlnsunsfan]

I don't care about Bridges and Warren. You can keep them. But some filler is necessary and I don't want any negative value contracts.

And Beal is currently at Williams' level, if not better. Williams' stats were always a bit overrated because of Utah's system. They came back down to earth once he was traded. Beal is averaging 29, 7 and 6 since Wall went down, with a TS% of .600. He is the 2nd best SG in the league behind only Harden.

You can say Williams is overrated now, but no one knew that at the time. He was considered one of the very best players in the NBA and had been producing at that level for 5 years whereas, like you said, Brad has been putting up his best numbers for a relatively short period of time. Deron was a bust for the Nets. Phoenix would be opening themselves up to similar risk, if not more, since you're asking for more draft picks over a greater span of time, and Beal is only under contract for two more years. And I do love Beal, but him being the 2nd best SG in the league is arguable. Besides, PG, SG, the NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions, which is why I want to pair Beal with Booker. I can name 5 guards off the top of my head that I would prefer, no disrespect intended.

Oh really.. who are the 5 guards? Curry and Harden are the only two guards I would trade Beal for today.. maybe I'd *consider* Doncic , if we're calling him a guard.

Considering durability, youth and playoff performance I don't see any other guard who has an argument.

I think some don't seem to grasp how good Beal is at his age. He didn't just start doing this recently. We're talking about a kid who posted a 23ppg on 60 TS% season at age 23. His first playoffs at age 20, he averaged 20/5/5 over two series vs Jimmy Butler and Paul George. This isn't anything new. He's got peak Ray Allen-level talent and you may want to adjust your mindset if you think Washington won't value him that way.

Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving. A few others have an argument. Again, no disrespect meant and Beal is amazing. I just think the asking price of the previous poster was too much for anyone short of an Anthony Davis type player.

[itlnsunsfan]

I don't know why the Suns would want to trade for Beal. Both he and Booker are SGs. Trading for Beal and expecting him to excel as a full-time PG would be a mistake. Plus, forcing Beal to play PG would likely piss him off.

The NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions. Beal is a good passer and actually averages more assists than Steph Curry. Pairing him with Booker would be our version of the Klay and Steph dynamic.

Beal doesn't have anywhere near the handle that Steph has. Again, Beal is not a PG. Trust me on that, I've watched BB play more than 400 games, including close to 200 in person.

Steph uses his handle more to score than assist. We know Beal can score. And his assist numbers are better than Curry's. Plus Booker is a willing distributor. That's good enough for me to think that Booker and Beal would pair well together.

[Illmatic12]

You can say Williams is overrated now, but no one knew that at the time. He was considered one of the very best players in the NBA and had been producing at that level for 5 years whereas, like you said, Brad has been putting up his best numbers for a relatively short period of time. Deron was a bust for the Nets. Phoenix would be opening themselves up to similar risk, if not more, since you're asking for more draft picks over a greater span of time, and Beal is only under contract for two more years. And I do love Beal, but him being the 2nd best SG in the league is arguable. Besides, PG, SG, the NBA is becoming more about frontcourt and backcourt positions, which is why I want to pair Beal with Booker. I can name 5 guards off the top of my head that I would prefer, no disrespect intended.

Oh really.. who are the 5 guards? Curry and Harden are the only two guards I would trade Beal for today.. maybe I'd *consider* Doncic , if we're calling him a guard.

Considering durability, youth and playoff performance I don't see any other guard who has an argument.

I think some don't seem to grasp how good Beal is at his age. He didn't just start doing this recently. We're talking about a kid who posted a 23ppg on 60 TS% season at age 23. His first playoffs at age 20, he averaged 20/5/5 over two series vs Jimmy Butler and Paul George. This isn't anything new. He's got peak Ray Allen-level talent and you may want to adjust your mindset if you think Washington won't value him that way.

Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving. A few others have an argument. Again, no disrespect meant and Beal is amazing. I just think the asking price of the previous poster was too much for anyone short of an Anthony Davis type player.

Westbrook is 30yo+ and his impact numbers already seems to be in decline (49.8 TS% is awful)

Lillard is older than Beal , worse defender and a much worse playoff performer.

Irving is injury-prone and misses 20-30 games a season, plus a defensive liability.

Beal is not as good as Davis obviously , but in some ways he is like the Anthony Davis of guards - he is the youngest guard in this discussion, the best two-way player and there are no questions about his game meshing within any type of system bc he is so fundamentally skilled. He’s the kind of player every team would kill to have, it would take tremendous value for Washington to give him up.

[nate33]

Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving. A few others have an argument. Again, no disrespect meant and Beal is amazing. I just think the asking price of the previous poster was too much for anyone short of an Anthony Davis type player.

No. No others have an argument. And at this point, Beal is probably better than Westbrook. And I'm wondering if he is better than Kyrie. What has Kyrie done when not alongside Lebron? His pre-Lebron Cavs were awful, and he is bringing down an extremely talented Boston squad.

[itlnsunsfan]

Oh really.. who are the 5 guards? Curry and Harden are the only two guards I would trade Beal for today.. maybe I'd *consider* Doncic , if we're calling him a guard.

Considering durability, youth and playoff performance I don't see any other guard who has an argument.

I think some don't seem to grasp how good Beal is at his age. He didn't just start doing this recently. We're talking about a kid who posted a 23ppg on 60 TS% season at age 23. His first playoffs at age 20, he averaged 20/5/5 over two series vs Jimmy Butler and Paul George. This isn't anything new. He's got peak Ray Allen-level talent and you may want to adjust your mindset if you think Washington won't value him that way.

Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving. A few others have an argument. Again, no disrespect meant and Beal is amazing. I just think the asking price of the previous poster was too much for anyone short of an Anthony Davis type player.

Westbrook is 30yo+ and his impact numbers already seems to be in decline (49.8 TS% is awful)

Lillard is older than Beal , worse defender and a much worse playoff performer.

Irving is injury-prone and misses 20-30 games a season, plus a defensive liability.

Beal is not as good as Davis obviously , but in some ways he is like the Anthony Davis of guards - he is the youngest guard in this discussion, the best two-way player and there are no questions about his game meshing within any type of system bc he is so fundamentally skilled. He’s the kind of player every team would kill to have, it would take tremendous value for Washington to give him up.

I understand your argument. I'd love to have him, but perhaps the Suns should look elsewhere for a more obtainable star.

[itlnsunsfan]

Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving. A few others have an argument. Again, no disrespect meant and Beal is amazing. I just think the asking price of the previous poster was too much for anyone short of an Anthony Davis type player.

No. No others have an argument. And at this point, Beal is probably better than Westbrook. And I'm wondering if he is better than Kyrie. What has Kyrie done when not alongside Lebron? His pre-Lebron Cavs were awful, and he is bringing down an extremely talented Boston squad.

You don't think Oladipo, Walker, Simmons, and Thompson have an argument as well?

[nate33]

Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving. A few others have an argument. Again, no disrespect meant and Beal is amazing. I just think the asking price of the previous poster was too much for anyone short of an Anthony Davis type player.

No. No others have an argument. And at this point, Beal is probably better than Westbrook. And I'm wondering if he is better than Kyrie. What has Kyrie done when not alongside Lebron? His pre-Lebron Cavs were awful, and he is bringing down an extremely talented Boston squad.

You don't think Oladipo, Walker, Simmons, and Thompson have an argument as well?

No. Beal is posting 29 points, 7 assists and 6 rebounds a game at a TS% of .600 for the last 36 games since Wall went down. Those are the same numbers as James Harden when Harden was 25. That's better than Oladipo last year and better than Walker this year. Simmons is a totally different type of player and difficult to compare. Klay is a 3rd option and nobody knows what he would do as a primary option. But Golden State has been mildly disappointing this season and it would be kind of absurd for their 3rd best player to make an All-NBA team.

[payitforward]

Given that all fans over-value their players -- it's really hard not to -- this is a difficult trade to discuss. I'm not even sure why you would want to trade for Beal. Or, more importantly, why a team as talent-poor as yours would be willing to give away so many picks.

TBH, you need to start over around Ayton, Bridges & as many picks as you can accumulate. Right now, you feature the single most over-rated & (about to be) over-paid player in the league (Devin Booker); you've played Josh Jackson -- who is absolutely awful, the worst player on your very bad team -- 1750 minutes so far.

Beal wouldn't help you where you are. What you should be doing is trying to get the best combination of picks you can for Devin Booker. There'll be someone to go for it, someone who thinks points per game equals good (equals butts in seats). Then somehow dump Jackson.

[Illmatic12]

Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving. A few others have an argument. Again, no disrespect meant and Beal is amazing. I just think the asking price of the previous poster was too much for anyone short of an Anthony Davis type player.

Westbrook is 30yo+ and his impact numbers already seems to be in decline (49.8 TS% is awful)

Lillard is older than Beal , worse defender and a much worse playoff performer.

Irving is injury-prone and misses 20-30 games a season, plus a defensive liability.

Beal is not as good as Davis obviously , but in some ways he is like the Anthony Davis of guards - he is the youngest guard in this discussion, the best two-way player and there are no questions about his game meshing within any type of system bc he is so fundamentally skilled. He’s the kind of player every team would kill to have, it would take tremendous value for Washington to give him up.

I understand your argument. I'd love to have him, but perhaps the Suns should look elsewhere for a more obtainable star.

Jrue Holiday will probably be much more attainable. If you guys land the #2 or #3 pick, that’s when you try to use Ja Morant to get Jrue

[itlnsunsfan]

Westbrook is 30yo+ and his impact numbers already seems to be in decline (49.8 TS% is awful)

Lillard is older than Beal , worse defender and a much worse playoff performer.

Irving is injury-prone and misses 20-30 games a season, plus a defensive liability.

Beal is not as good as Davis obviously , but in some ways he is like the Anthony Davis of guards - he is the youngest guard in this discussion, the best two-way player and there are no questions about his game meshing within any type of system bc he is so fundamentally skilled. He’s the kind of player every team would kill to have, it would take tremendous value for Washington to give him up.

I understand your argument. I'd love to have him, but perhaps the Suns should look elsewhere for a more obtainable star.

Jrue Holiday will probably be much more attainable. If you guys land the #2 or #3 pick, that’s when you try to use Ja Morant to get Jrue

i agree. I was thinking of Jrue as well.

[payitforward]

Jrue Holiday will probably be much more attainable. If you guys land the #2 or #3 pick, that’s when you try to use Ja Morant to get Jrue

i agree. I was thinking of Jrue as well.

I disagree. How much better are you going to be based on one (unquestionably outstanding) player? Respectfully, the Suns are a long way -- a long, long way -- away from being a good team, & Holiday turns 30 in June.

If you have a chance at Morant, grab him.

[itlnsunsfan]

Jrue Holiday will probably be much more attainable. If you guys land the #2 or #3 pick, that’s when you try to use Ja Morant to get Jrue

i agree. I was thinking of Jrue as well.

I disagree. How much better are you going to be based on one (unquestionably outstanding) player? Respectfully, the Suns are a long way -- a long, long way -- away from being a good team, & Holiday turns 30 in June.

If you have a chance at Morant, grab him.

Well ya now after seeing him put up a triple double in the tournament lol. He looked fantastic. I dont think the Suns are as far off as you think. Ja could make a nice, young big 3 with Booker and Ayton.

[payitforward]

i agree. I was thinking of Jrue as well.

I disagree. How much better are you going to be based on one (unquestionably outstanding) player? Respectfully, the Suns are a long way -- a long, long way -- away from being a good team, & Holiday turns 30 in June.

If you have a chance at Morant, grab him.

Well ya now after seeing him put up a triple double in the tournament lol. He looked fantastic. I dont think the Suns are as far off as you think. Ja could make a nice, young big 3 with Booker and Ayton.

He did look amazing. Enough so that if you have the #2 pick this year, & you are willing to give up your #31 pick as well (& I can get Dylan Windler w/ it), & you're willing to include Bridges & the 2021 Miami R1 pick you own... I'd give you Beal for that set of assets. Have you already said no to that package? Or...?

As to how far off the Suns are... every fan thinks his team is better than its record. Every one no matter what team it is. But, every team can't be better than its record. In fact, every team is exactly as good as its record. Period. Your record is 17-55; that's how good you are.

Unfortunately, right now, you don't have much by way of assets that will translate into a big near-term improvement. Ayton & Bridges are both excellent young players. But those two guys plus your rights to Oubre (assuming he pans out) are the entirety of your meaningful assets (unless you feel like giving a lot of value to the contracts of Melton & Okobo).

Above all, you have $65.5m tied up next year in 4 players who aren't close to good enough to warrant the investment: Booker, Warren, Jackson & Johnson (who is sure to pick up his huge option).

I know you think Booker is really good -- he scores a lot of points & gets a lot of assists. But his TS% is only a little above average, he's a below average rebounder, below average in steals & blocks, fouls too much, & above all he turns the ball over an amazing amount.

If I were interviewing for the GM job in Phoenix, I wouldn't take it unless ownership told me I could trade Booker. & b/c people love guys who score a lot of points, I'm sure you could get a fair number of assets for him.

But, as things stand... yeah, the Suns are way far away from being any good at all. Way far away from winning 30 games, for example. Sorry -- we're not very good either! Feel free to pick on us in retaliation!

[Dat2U]

I disagree. How much better are you going to be based on one (unquestionably outstanding) player? Respectfully, the Suns are a long way -- a long, long way -- away from being a good team, & Holiday turns 30 in June.

If you have a chance at Morant, grab him.

Well ya now after seeing him put up a triple double in the tournament lol. He looked fantastic. I dont think the Suns are as far off as you think. Ja could make a nice, young big 3 with Booker and Ayton.

He did look amazing. Enough so that if you have the #2 pick this year, & you are willing to give up your #31 pick as well (& I can get Dylan Windler w/ it), & you're willing to include Bridges & the 2021 Miami R1 pick you own... I'd give you Beal for that set of assets. Have you already said no to that package? Or...?

As to how far off the Suns are... every fan thinks his team is better than its record. Every one no matter what team it is. But, every team can't be better than its record. In fact, every team is exactly as good as its record. Period. Your record is 17-55; that's how good you are.

Unfortunately, right now, you don't have much by way of assets that will translate into a big near-term improvement. Ayton & Bridges are both excellent young players. But those two guys plus your rights to Oubre (assuming he pans out) are the entirety of your meaningful assets (unless you feel like giving a lot of value to the contracts of Melton & Okobo).

Above all, you have $65.5m tied up next year in 4 players who aren't close to good enough to warrant the investment: Booker, Warren, Jackson & Johnson (who is sure to pick up his huge option).

I know you think Booker is really good -- he scores a lot of points & gets a lot of assists. But his TS% is only a little above average, he's a below average rebounder, below average in steals & blocks, fouls too much, & above all he turns the ball over an amazing amount.

If I were interviewing for the GM job in Phoenix, I wouldn't take it unless ownership told me I could trade Booker. & b/c people love guys who score a lot of points, I'm sure you could get a fair number of assets for him.

But, as things stand... yeah, the Suns are way far away from being any good at all. Way far away from winning 30 games, for example. Sorry -- we're not very good either! Feel free to pick on us in retaliation!

Great minds think alike!

I'd go for that as well and of course Morant & Windler would be my guys too!

I assume you'd want Clarke with our own pick. They Kabengele kid is really tempting. So is Bitadze but I can be talked into Clarke.

G Ja Morant
G Tomas Satoransky / Troy Brown Jr.
F Mikail Bridges / Dylan Windler
F Brandon Clarke / Sam Dekker
C Thomas Bryant

All the sudden we got a nice young core to build around.

[Ruzious]

Guys, lol - we're not getting that package for Beal.