Did Parker & Portis make us better? Or have they made us worse?

[payitforward]

Time to put the kaibosh on the idea that the Wizards have gotten better in any way since Portis & Parker joined the team.

Here's the background:

1. When Wall went down our record was 13-22 -- a .371 winning %.
We'd played 15 home games vs. 20 away games.
20 of our 35 games were against teams with better than .500 records.
4 of our 13 wins were over teams with better than .500 records. The other 9 were vs. the Knicks twice, Miami, Orlando, Cleveland, Atlanta, New Orleans, the Lakers, & Phoenix.

2. Our record after Wall went down but before we traded Otto Porter for Jabari Parker & Bobby Portis was 9-10 -- a .450 winning %. (Much better than the preceding part of the season)
We played 12 home games vs. 7 away games (easier than the preceding part of the season).
12 of the 19 games were vs. teams with above .500 records (close to the same as the preceding part of the season).
5 of our 9 wins were over teams with better than .500 records (OKC, Philly, Milwaukee, Detroit, & Indiana). (Better than the preceding part if the season).

At that point we were 22-32 -- a .407 winning %. We'd played the same number of games at home as on the road. But 32 of our 54 games had been against teams with a winning record.

Then we traded Porter for Parker/Portis. What happened? Did things improve? Did we get better? No. We got worse. Our record in the 20 games since they became Wizards is 8-12 -- a .400 winning %.

But, that doesn't begin to tell the story! Consider that...

1. 12 of the 20 games have been vs. teams w/ sub-.500 records. In other words, we've had an exceedingly soft schedule.
2. 11 of the games have been at home vs. 9 away games. Even bad teams do better at home than on the road.
3. 7 of the 8 wins since they joined us have been over teams with under .500 records: Cleveland, Chicago, Minnesota, Dallas, Sacramento, Orlando & Memphis.
4. In fact, 4 of those 7 teams have even worse records than the Wizards!
5. We've had only 1 win over a team with a better than .500 record -- Brooklyn, a team that is exactly 1 game over .500.
6. Overall, the 8 teams we've beaten average 30 wins so far this season.

Portis and Parker haven't made us a better team. The fact is, they have made us an even worse team than we were.

[DCZards]

It seems to me that Ariza, Green and, maybe Sato, have not played as well over the last 20 games as they did earlier in the season. (I could be wrong about that.) And Beal seems to be running out of gas of late.

And some of those sub-.500 teams that the Zards lost to, such as Detroit, Orlando, Miami and Charlotte, have been playing well and beaten some good teams the last month or so.

So I don't think your questions can be answered based solely on the addition of and play of Parker & Portis...there are too many other variables.

[payitforward]

Since we weren't good before the two of them arrived, I would never blame our woes on them, Zards! That would be unfair to say the least.

Green's numbers haven't gotten worse, but I think he's playing a bit fewer minutes -- & he does look a little gassed. But I don't think either Ariza or Sato have declined at all. & Beal won two games last week virtually single-handed.

Not to mention that, over the whole last part of the season:

Beal has upped his game significantly overall.
Ariza has been quite a lot better than Oubre whom he replaced.
Rivers was awful & departed.
Dekker has played quite well.
Troy Brown has played very well in increased minutes.
Thomas Bryant has become a big & very positive part of our game.

But, you are still right, because I put the question badly. I.e. it's not really about Jabari Parker & Bobby Portis, or at least not exclusively about them. After all, we didn't just *add* them, we also *subtracted* Otto Porter.

IOW, it's about the move Ernie made. Without question the move made us worse not better.

But... if it contributed to Ernie being relieved of his duties, it was worth it!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It seems to me that Ariza, Green and, maybe Sato, have not played as well over the last 20 games as they did earlier in the season. (I could be wrong about that.) And Beal seems to be running out of gas of late.

And some of those sub-.500 teams that the Zards lost to, such as Detroit, Orlando, Miami and Charlotte, have been playing well and beaten some good teams the last month or so.

So I don't think your questions can be answered based solely on the addition of and play of Parker & Portis...there are too many other variables.

Is Otto Porter going to be chronically injured?

Brad Beal missed a season worth of games his first four NBA seasons. Eighty games. Kid was out hurt.

Porter is way better than Parker or Portis. When healthy. The trade was A DESPERATE MOVE BY A GM WHO FAILED to get the original deal.

Two second round picks in this draft were originally negotiated/scheduled to go to the Wizards. That fell through but DESPERATE TO SAVE HIS OWN ASS EG had to...had to ...take what he got for cap relief.

Lummocks coach likes Ariza and Green.

I have not been following the Wizards at all the past month. Season be over.

Parker and Portis in theory were really great pieces to acquire for Otto in that they are younger, bigger, and might each have more than a little upside.

I say as long as Scott Brooks coaches who can tell a thing about the talent?

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Since we weren't good before the two of them arrived, I would never blame our woes on them, Zards! That would be unfair to say the least.

Green's numbers haven't gotten worse, but I think he's playing a bit fewer minutes -- & he does look a little gassed. But I don't think either Ariza or Sato have declined at all. & Beal won two games last week virtually single-handed.

Not to mention that, over the whole last part of the season:

Beal has upped his game significantly overall.
Ariza has been quite a lot better than Oubre whom he replaced.
Rivers was awful & departed.
Dekker has played quite well.
Troy Brown has played very well in increased minutes.
Thomas Bryant has become a big & very positive part of our game.

But, you are still right, because I put the question badly. I.e. it's not really about Jabari Parker & Bobby Portis, or at least not exclusively about them. After all, we didn't just *add* them, we also *subtracted* Otto Porter.

IOW, it's about the move Ernie made. Without question the move made us worse not better.

But... if it contributed to Ernie being relieved of his duties, it was worth it!

PIF, very succinctly said it well.

Ernie's constantly moving. Backwards as a team but onward. His pay continues and his tenure and longevity remain. He is consistent.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If Porter is going to stay hurt the Wizards made out fine.

I doubt it.

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

[dangermouse]

That is true, and makes sense when you think about it. Porter is a much better player than Portis or Parker, even when he is dealing with injury and/or coming off the bench.

The records during these periods bears this out, and you've laid it out brilliantly. However, I think if you looked at the teams "on paper" (whatever that means in sports lingo talk) I think the difference is bordering negligible unless Porter was 100% (which he STILL isnt).

[Ruzious]

So... Parker and Portis aren't great players? Who knew??? The best thing about them is we don't have to pay them $55,739,813 over the next 2 seasons - not to mention lux tax implications - which I won't mention. Still an awful trade, but Otto does have a problematic health situation.

[nate33]

I don't believe anybody except perhaps Induveca thought that Portis plus Parker would be better than Porter.

But that's not a fair way to look at it. Going forward, the comparison will be between Porter at $27M versus Parker at maybe $10M plus $17 million dollars in other players (such as Sato and Bryant).

[Induveca]

I don't believe anybody except perhaps Induveca thought that Portis plus Parker would be better than Porter.

But that's not a fair way to look at it. Going forward, the comparison will be between Porter at $27M versus Parker at maybe $10M plus $17 million dollars in other players (such as Sato and Bryant).

The team is fun to watch with those guys, and I don’t have to cringe at seeing a max salary Porter for the next few years giving a half-ass effort and constantly injured.

Porter disappeared too much, injured too much. As I’ve said many times if he was a 15M a year guy he’d still be here. He was moved for guaranteed financial flexibility, as his deal became a far greater risk after the Wall disaster.

[Illmatic12]

Otto is a very solid pro, but the Wizards did the right thing by moving his salary.. his value likely would have been even lower than Portis/Parker/2nd had we waited. He finished the season with 56 games played and his longterm health is clearly an issue that other teams wouldn't ignore.


I mean the guy is a hospital case, he somehow managed to injure every part of his body. This is OPJs injury report FROM THIS SEASON alone (not including the leg surgery over the summer, or his chronic hip issue which can pop up at any time) .

Porter (shoulder) will not play Wednesday against the Wizards, KC Johnson of the Chicago Tribune reports.Porter is dealing with a rotator cuff issue in his dominant, right hand, and the Chicago Bulls will hold him out Wednesday after he underwent an MRI. With a few days off before Saturday's matchup with the Jazz, the hope is that Porter will be able to get back on the floor before the end of the week.

Porter, due to a knee bruise, did not practice Wednesday, Mike McGraw of the Chicago Daily Herald reports.There's no indication that Porter's injury is serious, but it's possible he misses Friday's game against the Clippers. More information should arrive in the coming days.

Porter will not play Sunday against the Hawks for load management purposes, Chicago Bulls play by play man Chuck Swirsky reports.Porter will be held out after playing 55 minutes in Friday's marathon game against these same Hawks. Expect Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot to move into the starting five in his place Sunday.

Porter (leg) will not play Monday against Milwaukee.A strained muscle in his lower leg will keep Porter out of action Monday, and the Chicago Bulls will also be without starting point guard Kris Dunn. Ryan Arcidiacono will start for Dunn, while Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot will get the nod in place of Porter.

Porter is doubtful to return to Wednesday's game against the Pacers with a sprained left big toe.Porter made his return to the starting lineup Wednesday since returning from a knee injury on January 2, however it looks as though he won't be able to finish the game. If Porter is unable to return, he should be considered questionable for the Washington Wizards' next game, Saturday against the Bucks. Jeff Green should see increased action with Porter out.

Porter injured his right thumb in Tuesday's 132-115 loss to the 76ers, but X-rays following the game returned negative, Chase Hughes of NBC Sports Washington reports.While the X-ray results are good news, Porter indicated following the game that his thumb still felt numb. The Washington Wizards have a rematch against the 76ers on Wednesday in the second half of a back-to-back set, so he should be tentatively viewed as questionable until the team provides an update on the situation. Porter finished Tuesday's contest with 11 points (4-10 FG, 3-4 3Pt), two steals, one rebound and one assist across 19 minutes.

Porter (knee) will remain out for Saturday's game against the Hornets, Rick Bonnell of the Charlotte Observer reports.Porter will miss a 10th straight game as he continues to work back from a strained right knee. It's unclear when the forward will make his return, but his next opportunity will come Wednesday against Atlanta.

Porter is dealing with a hamstring injury but was able to practice Wednesday, Chase Hughes of NBC Sports Washington reports.Porter should tentatively be considered questionable for Friday's game against the Raptors until further information emerges. He presumably suffered the injury Tuesday against the Clippers.

Porter is dealing with soreness in his lower leg and will be a game-time decision Sunday against the Trail Blazers.Porter apparently woke up with the soreness Sunday and will go through warmups before making a final decision on whether or not to play. Kelly Oubre would be the top candidate in line for added minutes if Porter does sit out.

Otto Porter (toe) did not practice Saturday and is considered questionable to play Sunday against the Knicks, Candace Buckner of the Washington Post reports.Porter suffered the injury Friday against the Thunder. It forced him out the game, and while he was able to return, he finished with just eight points in 16 minutes of action. As of Sunday afternoon, his chances of playing Sunday look to be in serious jeopardy, but the team will likely wait until closer to tip-off for a final evaluation.

Otto Porter left Monday's preseason game against the Knicks with mild ankle pain, Candace Buckner of The Washington Post reports.Porter exited the contest in the first half after putting up 13 points in 16 minutes. Coach Scott Brooks stated Porter wouldn't have played in the second half anyway, and that he isn't expected to miss any game action because of the injury. Porter could miss a practice or two but should be ready to take the court for Friday's matchup against Miami.

Yikes. At the end of the day, it simply wasn't feasible for Washington to commit that much salary to a role player who has been physically frail over the course of his career.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Otto is a very solid pro, but the Wizards did the right thing by moving his salary.. his value likely would have been even lower than Portis/Parker/2nd had we waited. He finished the season with 56 games played and his longterm health is clearly an issue that other teams wouldn't ignore.


I mean the guy is a hospital case, he somehow managed to injure every part of his body. This is OPJs injury report FROM THIS SEASON alone (not including the leg surgery over the summer, or his chronic hip issue which can pop up at any time) .

Porter (shoulder) will not play Wednesday against the Wizards, KC Johnson of the Chicago Tribune reports.Porter is dealing with a rotator cuff issue in his dominant, right hand, and the Chicago Bulls will hold him out Wednesday after he underwent an MRI. With a few days off before Saturday's matchup with the Jazz, the hope is that Porter will be able to get back on the floor before the end of the week.

Porter, due to a knee bruise, did not practice Wednesday, Mike McGraw of the Chicago Daily Herald reports.There's no indication that Porter's injury is serious, but it's possible he misses Friday's game against the Clippers. More information should arrive in the coming days.

Porter will not play Sunday against the Hawks for load management purposes, Chicago Bulls play by play man Chuck Swirsky reports.Porter will be held out after playing 55 minutes in Friday's marathon game against these same Hawks. Expect Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot to move into the starting five in his place Sunday.

Porter (leg) will not play Monday against Milwaukee.A strained muscle in his lower leg will keep Porter out of action Monday, and the Chicago Bulls will also be without starting point guard Kris Dunn. Ryan Arcidiacono will start for Dunn, while Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot will get the nod in place of Porter.

Porter is doubtful to return to Wednesday's game against the Pacers with a sprained left big toe.Porter made his return to the starting lineup Wednesday since returning from a knee injury on January 2, however it looks as though he won't be able to finish the game. If Porter is unable to return, he should be considered questionable for the Washington Wizards' next game, Saturday against the Bucks. Jeff Green should see increased action with Porter out.

Porter injured his right thumb in Tuesday's 132-115 loss to the 76ers, but X-rays following the game returned negative, Chase Hughes of NBC Sports Washington reports.While the X-ray results are good news, Porter indicated following the game that his thumb still felt numb. The Washington Wizards have a rematch against the 76ers on Wednesday in the second half of a back-to-back set, so he should be tentatively viewed as questionable until the team provides an update on the situation. Porter finished Tuesday's contest with 11 points (4-10 FG, 3-4 3Pt), two steals, one rebound and one assist across 19 minutes.

Porter (knee) will remain out for Saturday's game against the Hornets, Rick Bonnell of the Charlotte Observer reports.Porter will miss a 10th straight game as he continues to work back from a strained right knee. It's unclear when the forward will make his return, but his next opportunity will come Wednesday against Atlanta.

Porter is dealing with a hamstring injury but was able to practice Wednesday, Chase Hughes of NBC Sports Washington reports.Porter should tentatively be considered questionable for Friday's game against the Raptors until further information emerges. He presumably suffered the injury Tuesday against the Clippers.

Porter is dealing with soreness in his lower leg and will be a game-time decision Sunday against the Trail Blazers.Porter apparently woke up with the soreness Sunday and will go through warmups before making a final decision on whether or not to play. Kelly Oubre would be the top candidate in line for added minutes if Porter does sit out.

Otto Porter (toe) did not practice Saturday and is considered questionable to play Sunday against the Knicks, Candace Buckner of the Washington Post reports.Porter suffered the injury Friday against the Thunder. It forced him out the game, and while he was able to return, he finished with just eight points in 16 minutes of action. As of Sunday afternoon, his chances of playing Sunday look to be in serious jeopardy, but the team will likely wait until closer to tip-off for a final evaluation.

Otto Porter left Monday's preseason game against the Knicks with mild ankle pain, Candace Buckner of The Washington Post reports.Porter exited the contest in the first half after putting up 13 points in 16 minutes. Coach Scott Brooks stated Porter wouldn't have played in the second half anyway, and that he isn't expected to miss any game action because of the injury. Porter could miss a practice or two but should be ready to take the court for Friday's matchup against Miami.

Yikes. At the end of the day, it simply wasn't feasible for Washington to commit that much salary to a role player who has been physically frail over the course of his career.

Sorry

[payitforward]

I don't believe anybody except perhaps Induveca thought that Portis plus Parker would be better than Porter.

But that's not a fair way to look at it. Going forward, the comparison will be between Porter at $27M versus Parker at maybe $10M plus $17 million dollars in other players (such as Sato and Bryant).

The team is fun to watch with those guys, and I don’t have to cringe at seeing a max salary Porter for the next few years giving a half-ass effort and constantly injured.

Porter disappeared too much, injured too much. As I’ve said many times if he was a 15M a year guy he’d still be here. He was moved for guaranteed financial flexibility, as his deal became a far greater risk after the Wall disaster.

Again... my point was that it's only Ernie who is to be judged here.

If you pick a guy #3, & he plays extremely well for you by the time he's 24 & 25, which Porter certainly did, & you trade him -- but what you get are two players who play 30 games for you & whom you then let go, I'd say there is little doubt that you've just p1ssed in your own bowl of soup.

Not about whether Parker is good, or Portis is good, or even how good Otto is. & it's not about $$$ either. It's just an example, a textbook example, of how to manage your franchise into the dirt.

As to whether Parker is worth $10m... well, lets see if we keep him & for what amount -- who knows, maybe it'll be for less? Then we can revisit the subject when we see how he does.

I wish him the best wherever he plays. But what he does & where have no bearing on the fact that once again our GM turned an exceptionally valuable asset -- a #3 pick -- into nothing with a wave of his hand.

Btw, I agree w/ you, Iduveca, that Parker can be fun to watch sometimes. Then again, we are 8-12 vs. a very weak set of teams, right? The previous 19 games -- against a much better set of opponents & with Porter instead of Parker/Portis -- we went 9-10.

I like to watch wins don't you? I like beating OKC, Philly, Milwaukee, Indiana, Detroit... don't you? Or do you prefer watching us lose to the dregs of the league?

[payitforward]

So... Parker and Portis aren't great players? Who knew??? The best thing about them is we don't have to pay them $55,739,813 over the next 2 seasons - not to mention lux tax implications - which I won't mention. Still an awful trade, but Otto does have a problematic health situation.

IOW, you agree.

[queridiculo]

Who argued that the Wizards were better with those two, I thought the consensus was that this was a terrible deal?

[Ruzious]

So... Parker and Portis aren't great players? Who knew??? The best thing about them is we don't have to pay them $55,739,813 over the next 2 seasons - not to mention lux tax implications - which I won't mention. Still an awful trade, but Otto does have a problematic health situation.

IOW, you agree.

Yes sir. Like almost every move Grunfeld's made the last couple of years, it was made with the lux tax too much in mind - rather than building a team - and he (with some help from Ted) caused the lux tax debacle that they're "successfully" squirming out of. Everything eventually comes back to the Mahinmi signing and the Wall premature superflub extension. The most expensive wall north of the border.

[WizTom]

So... Parker and Portis aren't great players? Who knew??? The best thing about them is we don't have to pay them $55,739,813 over the next 2 seasons - not to mention lux tax implications - which I won't mention. Still an awful trade, but Otto does have a problematic health situation.

I think you over-estimate EFG's negotiating skills.


#FireEFG

[Induveca]

I don't believe anybody except perhaps Induveca thought that Portis plus Parker would be better than Porter.

But that's not a fair way to look at it. Going forward, the comparison will be between Porter at $27M versus Parker at maybe $10M plus $17 million dollars in other players (such as Sato and Bryant).

The team is fun to watch with those guys, and I don’t have to cringe at seeing a max salary Porter for the next few years giving a half-ass effort and constantly injured.

Porter disappeared too much, injured too much. As I’ve said many times if he was a 15M a year guy he’d still be here. He was moved for guaranteed financial flexibility, as his deal became a far greater risk after the Wall disaster.

Again... my point was that it's only Ernie who is to be judged here.

If you pick a guy #3, & he plays extremely well for you by the time he's 24 & 25, which Porter certainly did, & you trade him -- but what you get are two players who play 30 games for you & whom you then let go, I'd say there is little doubt that you've just p1ssed in your own bowl of soup.

Not about whether Parker is good, or Portis is good, or even how good Otto is. & it's not about $$$ either. It's just an example, a textbook example, of how to manage your franchise into the dirt.

As to whether Parker is worth $10m... well, lets see if we keep him & for what amount -- who knows, maybe it'll be for less? Then we can revisit the subject when we see how he does.

I wish him the best wherever he plays. But what he does & where have no bearing on the fact that once again our GM turned an exceptionally valuable asset -- a #3 pick -- into nothing with a wave of his hand.

Btw, I agree w/ you, Iduveca, that Parker can be fun to watch sometimes. Then again, we are 8-12 vs. a very weak set of teams, right? The previous 19 games -- against a much better set of opponents & with Porter instead of Parker/Portis -- we went 9-10.

I like to watch wins don't you? I like beating OKC, Philly, Milwaukee, Indiana, Detroit... don't you? Or do you prefer watching us lose to the dregs of the league?

Of course but pretty obvious this season was lost, Porter or Parker/Portis. Is what it is.

I’ve had the most fun watching Bryant, Satoransky, Parker and Brown. Even in losses, at least there is some benefit there in terms of development.

[payitforward]

...the Wall premature superflub extension. The most expensive wall north of the border.

LOL!

[payitforward]

...I’ve had the most fun watching Bryant, Satoransky, Parker and Brown. Even in losses, at least there is some benefit there in terms of development.

Yup -- agreed.