ImageImageImageImageImage

The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

montestewart
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 13,942
And1: 6,978
Joined: Feb 25, 2009

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#21 » by montestewart » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:07 pm

nate33 wrote:Bump!

Reposted from the Houston game thread:

montestewart wrote:How many more years does Brooks have on is contract? Nice guy and all, but there are a lot of young players on this team. They could use some guidance. This team could use a wise man.

It seems to me that Brooks is demonstrating what he does best: develop players.

Our mistake was hiring Brooks for a win-now veteran team. As a X's and O's guy and manager of veteran egos, Brooks was mediocre at best. But as a player development guy, Brooks is showing his mettle. What we are seeing now is the same guy who developed Westbrook, Harden and Durant. Given our current roster, I'm pretty happy he is our coach.

Brooks's contract is up in 2021. That seems about perfect to me. Let him build this team over the next 2 years and then look for a strategist type to coach the team in 2021-22.


What is the board opinion on Scott Brooks right now? What is he doing right? What is he doing wrong?

I have watched all or parts of all four games so far (much better than my pattern in recent years; they're interesting again), and I have been overall pretty pleased with the team and the younger players. Whether that's because of Brooks or because they just managed to assemble a good young roster, I don't know, but whatever the reason, I'm happy that watching a game now doesn't feel primarily like a duty of loyalty. If Brooks manages to oversee the positive development of Brown, Byant, Hachimura, etc. then maybe he is the right coach.
User avatar
BigA
Analyst
Posts: 3,057
And1: 962
Joined: Oct 05, 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
 

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#22 » by BigA » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:42 pm

So, we're in the final year of Brooks's contract, correct? Unless he got a secret extension (aka "the Ted Special"). I don't have very high expectations for the Wizards this year, but doubt that Brooks is going to maximize what they have.

If the team flounders, will there be a coaching change during the season? Is there anyone out there who could be plugged in as coach and expected to do better with this roster?
Frichuela
Junior
Posts: 363
And1: 254
Joined: Feb 25, 2015
 

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#23 » by Frichuela » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:51 pm

BigA wrote:So, we're in the final year of Brooks's contract, correct? Unless he got a secret extension (aka "the Ted Special"). I don't have very high expectations for the Wizards this year, but doubt that Brooks is going to maximize what they have.

If the team flounders, will there be a coaching change during the season? Is there anyone out there who could be plugged in as coach and expected to do better with this roster?


Can we poach Kenny Atkinson from the Clippers please?

IMO- he did an sterling job with the Nets
User avatar
Dark Faze
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,688
And1: 1,595
Joined: Dec 27, 2008

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#24 » by Dark Faze » Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:54 pm

I want an analytic geek who can put the right lineups on the court and pair them with players that put them in the best position to win--and that's probably some video room guy who won't get an interview.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 57,400
And1: 10,669
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#25 » by nate33 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:33 pm

BigA wrote:So, we're in the final year of Brooks's contract, correct? Unless he got a secret extension (aka "the Ted Special"). I don't have very high expectations for the Wizards this year, but doubt that Brooks is going to maximize what they have.

If the team flounders, will there be a coaching change during the season? Is there anyone out there who could be plugged in as coach and expected to do better with this roster?

I'm fairly confident that this will be Brooks' final season, but I'm not expecting a mid-season coaching change unless a top tier coach like Budenholzer somehow becomes available.
User avatar
long suffrin' boulez fan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,077
And1: 2,158
Joined: Nov 18, 2005
Location: Just above Ted's double bottom line
       

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#26 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:16 pm

nate33 wrote:
BigA wrote:So, we're in the final year of Brooks's contract, correct? Unless he got a secret extension (aka "the Ted Special"). I don't have very high expectations for the Wizards this year, but doubt that Brooks is going to maximize what they have.

If the team flounders, will there be a coaching change during the season? Is there anyone out there who could be plugged in as coach and expected to do better with this roster?

I'm fairly confident that this will be Brooks' final season, but I'm not expecting a mid-season coaching change unless a top tier coach like Budenholzer somehow becomes available.


I sure hope so.

What makes you confident about it Nate?
In Rizzo we trust
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 57,400
And1: 10,669
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#27 » by nate33 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:24 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
nate33 wrote:
BigA wrote:So, we're in the final year of Brooks's contract, correct? Unless he got a secret extension (aka "the Ted Special"). I don't have very high expectations for the Wizards this year, but doubt that Brooks is going to maximize what they have.

If the team flounders, will there be a coaching change during the season? Is there anyone out there who could be plugged in as coach and expected to do better with this roster?

I'm fairly confident that this will be Brooks' final season, but I'm not expecting a mid-season coaching change unless a top tier coach like Budenholzer somehow becomes available.


I sure hope so.

What makes you confident about it Nate?

He hasn't been that good.

Players tend to tune out coaches over time once they've learned everything they're going to learn from them. It's better to swap out a mediocre coach with another mediocre coach every 3 years, just to hear a new voice.

The only coaches that deserve to stay longer than 5 years are the handful of elite ones (Pop, Stevens, Carlisle, Budenholzer, Spoelstra). I don't think Brooks has been awful here, but he certainly hasn't stood out as elite. Swapping for any halfway competent coach is bound to help.

We missed an opportunity last summer when Frank Vogel was available. That guy can coach. It'll be interesting to see who is available this year.
Eli Babak
Senior
Posts: 563
And1: 374
Joined: Jun 21, 2018
 

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#28 » by Eli Babak » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:27 pm

Yea, he signed a 5y/35M-deal in 2016 (so many people getting overpaid that year :banghead:). I think they didn't even interview anyone else, it was one of those embarassing ways to lure KD here (IIRC they also signed his high school coach or something, lol). He was definitely an upgrade from Wittman but that doesn't mean he's a good coach. If they make the playoffs there's no way he's not getting an extension.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 57,400
And1: 10,669
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#29 » by nate33 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:52 pm

Eli Babak wrote:Yea, he signed a 5y/35M-deal in 2016 (so many people getting overpaid that year :banghead:). I think they didn't even interview anyone else, it was one of those embarassing ways to lure KD here (IIRC they also signed his high school coach or something, lol). He was definitely an upgrade from Wittman but that doesn't mean he's a good coach. If they make the playoffs there's no way he's not getting an extension.

Why would he get an extension just for squeaking into the playoffs (particularly as an 8th, 9th or 10th seed)? We're supposed to make the playoffs. We have two All-Stars on the roster.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 15,147
And1: 4,816
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#30 » by payitforward » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:01 pm

A lot of people here had high expectations of Scott Brooks when he was hired. For reasons I never understood.

In fairness, no one could have succeeded with the Frankensquad Ernie put together. & losing Wall for 2 years was no help either.

But the basic fact remains: good players make the coach look good. & even though a handful of significant coaches get the best out of their players, no coach can make his players better than they are.
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
Eli Babak
Senior
Posts: 563
And1: 374
Joined: Jun 21, 2018
 

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#31 » by Eli Babak » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:57 pm

nate33 wrote:
Eli Babak wrote:Yea, he signed a 5y/35M-deal in 2016 (so many people getting overpaid that year :banghead:). I think they didn't even interview anyone else, it was one of those embarassing ways to lure KD here (IIRC they also signed his high school coach or something, lol). He was definitely an upgrade from Wittman but that doesn't mean he's a good coach. If they make the playoffs there's no way he's not getting an extension.

Why would he get an extension just for squeaking into the playoffs (particularly as an 8th, 9th or 10th seed)? We're supposed to make the playoffs. We have two All-Stars on the roster.


That makes Ted happy. That's what matters unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong and Ted's goal is to make at least the 2nd round or have a very competitive 1st round.
montestewart
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 13,942
And1: 6,978
Joined: Feb 25, 2009

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#32 » by montestewart » Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:44 pm

Eli Babak wrote:Yea, he signed a 5y/35M-deal in 2016 (so many people getting overpaid that year :banghead:). I think they didn't even interview anyone else, it was one of those embarassing ways to lure KD here (IIRC they also signed his high school coach or something, lol). He was definitely an upgrade from Wittman but that doesn't mean he's a good coach. If they make the playoffs there's no way he's not getting an extension.

Four years later, the plan finally lured one of Brooks' former MVP players, so it worked, right? I'm not assuming he's getting an extension just for making the playoffs, but if you're a Wizards fan, having reasonable expectations can set you up for disappointment, so I can see where you're coming from.

The Wizards failures are far from just a Brooks problem, but it would be for the best to move on now.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 46,830
And1: 5,833
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Location: Mililani, Hawaii (Oahu)
Contact:
       

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#33 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:13 am

That Sixty Minutes stopwatch comes to mind.

The clock is ticking.

I sense a shift from support to doubt happening on Brooks.
NatP4
General Manager
Posts: 9,448
And1: 2,837
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#34 » by NatP4 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:17 am

payitforward wrote:A lot of people here had high expectations of Scott Brooks when he was hired. For reasons I never understood.

In fairness, no one could have succeeded with the Frankensquad Ernie put together. & losing Wall for 2 years was no help either.

But the basic fact remains: good players make the coach look good. & even though a handful of significant coaches get the best out of their players, no coach can make his players better than they are.


A mediocre coach would play Garrison Mathews, Neto over Ish, Wagner over Lopez. Wouldnt play Westbrook with Ish, 3 PG lineups. Brown at PF.

This team is 3-0 with a mediocre coach, Brooks is the worst in the league by a mile.
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 10,085
And1: 3,682
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#35 » by TGW » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:45 am

I'm not buying the idea that this team is some sort of unstoppable force, and that Brooks is holding them back. I still think they are missing talent at key spots and the roster is loaded with stupid, low IQ players that don't know how to win.

Outside of a top coach like Popovich, most coaches are losing with this roster.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
NatP4
General Manager
Posts: 9,448
And1: 2,837
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#36 » by NatP4 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:36 pm

Who would be at the top of the list of candidates to replace Brooks? This has to stop. Getting outscored by 60 something points in the 4th quarter combined so far, is a joke. The lineups are a joke, the offensive sets are a joke, the player usage is a joke. He is getting nothing right. The fanbase has turned on him, the media has turned on him, Beal is starting to turn on the guy.

I would be all for an outside the box hire like Wes Unseld Jr
Frichuela
Junior
Posts: 363
And1: 254
Joined: Feb 25, 2015
 

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#37 » by Frichuela » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:16 pm

NatP4 wrote:Who would be at the top of the list of candidates to replace Brooks? This has to stop. Getting outscored by 60 something points in the 4th quarter combined so far, is a joke. The lineups are a joke, the offensive sets are a joke, the player usage is a joke. He is getting nothing right. The fanbase has turned on him, the media has turned on him, Beal is starting to turn on the guy.

I would be all for an outside the box hire like Wes Unseld Jr


I would also be happy with Unseld Jr. Kenny Atkinson is also an obvious choice. I like what he did with the pre-Kyre/Durant Nets.

The key is to hire a new coach pronto. Not to reach the playoffs but to begin to install the right habits and defensive fundamentals on our group of young players. Brooks’ culture of lack of accountability has to end.

This may also mean that we have to trade Beal asap, by this trade deadline ideally to be able to recoup good value. Nate and others have floated the idea of Miami for Herro, Achiuwa, a 1st rounder (or 2 in the distant future) and fodder. If we believe Herro can reach Beal’s level in 5-6 years, this may not be a bad return. Certainly if we compare Beal and Herro’s first NBA season, their stats are quite similar...

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=herroty01&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2=bealbr01&p2yrfrom=2013
NatP4
General Manager
Posts: 9,448
And1: 2,837
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#38 » by NatP4 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Frichuela wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Who would be at the top of the list of candidates to replace Brooks? This has to stop. Getting outscored by 60 something points in the 4th quarter combined so far, is a joke. The lineups are a joke, the offensive sets are a joke, the player usage is a joke. He is getting nothing right. The fanbase has turned on him, the media has turned on him, Beal is starting to turn on the guy.

I would be all for an outside the box hire like Wes Unseld Jr


I would also be happy with Unseld Jr. Kenny Atkinson is also an obvious choice. I like what he did with the pre-Kyre/Durant Nets.

The key is to hire a new coach pronto. Not to reach the playoffs but to begin to install the right habits and defensive fundamentals on our group of young players. Brooks’ culture of lack of accountability has to end.

This may also mean that we have to trade Beal asap, by this trade deadline ideally to be able to recoup good value. Nate and others have floated the idea of Miami for Herro, Achiuwa, a 1st rounder (or 2 in the distant future) and fodder. If we believe Herro can reach Beal’s level in 5-6 years, this may not be a bad return. Certainly if we compare Beal and Herro’s first NBA season, their stats are quite similar...

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=herroty01&p1yrfrom=2020&player_id2=bealbr01&p2yrfrom=2013


I’m not sure if I would jump ship that quickly. If we are gonna tear it down completely, then we might as well wait till the deadline, be a mediocre pile of trash with Brooks, let Westbrook put up a bunch of empty stats, then trade both Beal and Westbrook at the deadline and fire Brooks at season end.

I am in favor of firing Brooks right this second and hiring a new coach and giving this roster a shot at competing in the east. All it takes is a little common sense and this team is 3-0 and we’re talking about conference finals and a top 3 seed
User avatar
queridiculo
RealGM
Posts: 14,834
And1: 6,184
Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Location: Maximum Pain Zone
   

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#39 » by queridiculo » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:21 pm

You know what pisses me off about Brooks contract situation?

Leonsis sitting on his ass and refusing to make a decision because he's got $7 million riding on it.

If you plan with Brooks going forward, extend the man, if you don't, why waste a season with a lame duck coach?

We have about seen what we get from Brooks at this point, and if you're expecting some grand revelation in his final contract year you're woefully unequipped to be a decision maker in this league.
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 46,830
And1: 5,833
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Location: Mililani, Hawaii (Oahu)
Contact:
       

Re: The Wizards tenure of Scott Brooks 

Post#40 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:14 pm

nate33 wrote:
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm fairly confident that this will be Brooks' final season, but I'm not expecting a mid-season coaching change unless a top tier coach like Budenholzer somehow becomes available.


I sure hope so.

What makes you confident about it Nate?

He hasn't been that good.

Players tend to tune out coaches over time once they've learned everything they're going to learn from them. It's better to swap out a mediocre coach with another mediocre coach every 3 years, just to hear a new voice.

The only coaches that deserve to stay longer than 5 years are the handful of elite ones (Pop, Stevens, Carlisle, Budenholzer, Spoelstra). I don't think Brooks has been awful here, but he certainly hasn't stood out as elite. Swapping for any halfway competent coach is bound to help.

We missed an opportunity last summer when Frank Vogel was available. That guy can coach. It'll be interesting to see who is available this year.


Brooks needed to not have veterans like Wall and Westbrook. He’s much better coaching young guys who aren’t max contract “stars”.

His great shortcoming is his love of tiny guards like Ish Smith. His liking Robinson off the bench but not Bonga is just mind boggling.

Return to Washington Wizards