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Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II

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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1401 » by Dat2U » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:59 pm

verbal8 wrote:Does anyone else think Zion Williamson might end up being a Joe Smith-type pick?

Not a full-on bust, but a player whose dominance doesn't translate to the NBA?

Is too athletic to fail, but I see his biggest weakness shaky outside shooting, being a liability in the pros. I think he blocks fewer shots and is less dominate inside against the longer competition in the NBA.


Yes but not a bust per se, but not a clear cut 1st ballot HOF'er. I think he'll definitely make some all-star games, so not Joe Smith level but maybe a Chris Webber type of career.

I think it will be due to injuries.

I think there's a decent chance either Ja Morant or even Darius Garland becomes the best player in the draft when it's all said and done.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1402 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:26 am

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:It's like I said, Zion Williamson is the son of Derrick Williams. How can he succeed. Whereas Rui Hachimura is the Japanese translation of the English name "Kawhi Leonard."

It's so obvious!

With our new GM (Garrison Mathews, the pale-faced Rui Hachimura of shooting guards), we will make people want to forget that they took part in this draft. Executives around the league will fly in & ask if they can be enslaved to us.

This was tiresome schtick the first time you trotted it out. It hasn’t gotten any better with repetition. Maybe take a break? New material? I dunno.

Garrison Mathews, the pale-faced Rui Hachimura of shooting guards, has asked me to point out to you that the Yiddish word, שטיק‎ is usually transliterated as shtick -- that is, with no "c."

More importantly, given the origin of the word (& name) "Zion" in the Hebrew word צִיּוֹן (acceptably transliterated as Zion though for a long time it was common to transliterate it as Tzion, pronouncing the "i" as a long e, which is how it's pronounced in Hebrew, as I'm sure you know from your copy of Gesenius's Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon -- my own copy of which is from 1870, the John Wiley version of the London Samuel Bagster & Sons edition. Back then, John Wiley was located at 15 Astor Place, just up the street from Astor Place Hair Stylists at #4 where I get a cut every time I find myself in Manhattan), about whose use I'm sure you've read in Herder's Spirit of Hebrew Poetry (first published in 1782 -- in German, obviously -- the edition on my shelf was translated in two volumes by James Marsh & published in Burlington Vt in 1833) I recommend a slight increase in precision when using the word, but even more old friend I recommend that before expressing yourself on any subject related to my person and/or practices you trouble yourself to recollect that everywhere you dip your cup to take a drink of water I have already taken a piss, or, as I'm sure many others have preceded me in expressing in your direction, grow up: & above all, find yourself someone else to use as an excuse to concentrate what meager forces you command & display them to your own & no other's delight. You want to talk basketball? Sure. You want to frost my ass? Do some woodshedding first -- a couple of decades would get you close to where you'd need to be. Alas, I'll be long gone by then. G'night.
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1403 » by doclinkin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:38 am

Can we fast forward to the ‘long gone’ part? :clown:

As for zingers and gotchas on Yiddish spelling. Eyes rolling right out of my skull. I’m pretty sure you know where I’m a tell you to schtick it. ... :wavefinger: :censored: :o
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1404 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:29 pm

doclinkin wrote:Can we fast forward to the ‘long gone’ part? :clown:

As for zingers and gotchas on Yiddish spelling. Eyes rolling right out of my skull. I’m pretty sure you know where I’m a tell you to schtick it. ... :wavefinger: :censored: :o

I'm 76, not much need to fast forward....

As to the 2d para, I've just made my point in the "offseason" thread. Up to you what comes next.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1405 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:05 pm

nate33 wrote:I didn't realize that my man Kyle Guy actually got drafted! The Knicks took him with the 55th pick. In an ideal situation, he would be paired with a playmaking wing so he can guard the PG position. Maybe Barrett pans out to be that type of guy.

The player I'd compare him to is Steve Kerr, and after listening to a few of his interviews, it wouldn't surprise me if Guy becomes a good coach after his playing days.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1406 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:07 pm

Dat2U wrote:
verbal8 wrote:Does anyone else think Zion Williamson might end up being a Joe Smith-type pick?

Not a full-on bust, but a player whose dominance doesn't translate to the NBA?

Is too athletic to fail, but I see his biggest weakness shaky outside shooting, being a liability in the pros. I think he blocks fewer shots and is less dominate inside against the longer competition in the NBA.


Yes but not a bust per se, but not a clear cut 1st ballot HOF'er. I think he'll definitely make some all-star games, so not Joe Smith level but maybe a Chris Webber type of career.

I think it will be due to injuries.

I think there's a decent chance either Ja Morant or even Darius Garland becomes the best player in the draft when it's all said and done.

If he stays healthy Zion almost can't miss being a superstar, imo. Can Not Miss Superstar.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1407 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:33 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm tempted to start a thread on Justin Robinson, but I should probably wait to see if he actually graduates from the Go-Go and manages to get minutes with the Wizards.

Looking at his college numbers, he seems like a really good under-the-radar find:

Image

The kid averaged 18 points, 7 boards, 4 assists and 2 steals while shooting 47%, 42% and 81%. He showed steady progression every year in nearly all categories. He gets to the line a good amount.

His numbers in conference play are even better:
Image

Sports-reference lists him as 6-2, 195 lbs. I can't find any official measurements.

Here is the obligatory highlight reel:


Great numbers, doesn’t pass the eye test at all for me. I could barely get through the highlight reel. Weird athlete

So many of the wizards board wanted us to draft him and a few others.



I want to feel like the Wizards have vision now with Grunfeld gone; I like the picks of Hachimura and Schofield, but I'm not feeling too good about the Justin Robinson signing.

Justin Robinson isn't much of a defender and I'm not sure he has the temperament that falls in line with the change of culture, that some of the other character guys on the team assists in ushering in.

He's good for pushing the pace, but I'm not sure he's really great at anything after that...not the best the Wizards' could've brought in, IMO.

Lastly, not feeling the overwhelming focus being placed on improving the offense.

Wait and see, I guess.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1408 » by Illuminaire » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:27 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
verbal8 wrote:Does anyone else think Zion Williamson might end up being a Joe Smith-type pick?

Not a full-on bust, but a player whose dominance doesn't translate to the NBA?

Is too athletic to fail, but I see his biggest weakness shaky outside shooting, being a liability in the pros. I think he blocks fewer shots and is less dominate inside against the longer competition in the NBA.


Yes but not a bust per se, but not a clear cut 1st ballot HOF'er. I think he'll definitely make some all-star games, so not Joe Smith level but maybe a Chris Webber type of career.

I think it will be due to injuries.

I think there's a decent chance either Ja Morant or even Darius Garland becomes the best player in the draft when it's all said and done.

If he stays healthy Zion almost can't miss being a superstar, imo. Can Not Miss Superstar.


I'm with Ruz here. And not just because I put a ring on it by declaring I'd become a fan of whatever team drafted Zion. But yes OK that factors in, happy?

Ahem. Anyways... Zion does everything in the game very well except for shooting, at which he is merely kind of OK. He's not even a bad shooter. Just a slightly below average one. He's also stupid young and displayed both true humility and an intense work ethic.

His free throw shooting is weak enough to give me pause. His turnover rate is high enough to raise an eyebrow. But at the end of the day, he's still a great rebounder, very good playmaker, otherworldly finisher, great helpside defender, and fantastic man defender switchable 2-4. What's his non-injury floor? A Super Carmelo/Blake hybrid that never hits better than 33% from range but actually plays defense? That's still an incredible player who can anchor a perennial contender.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1409 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:41 pm

Illuminaire wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Yes but not a bust per se, but not a clear cut 1st ballot HOF'er. I think he'll definitely make some all-star games, so not Joe Smith level but maybe a Chris Webber type of career.

I think it will be due to injuries.

I think there's a decent chance either Ja Morant or even Darius Garland becomes the best player in the draft when it's all said and done.

If he stays healthy Zion almost can't miss being a superstar, imo. Can Not Miss Superstar.


I'm with Ruz here. And not just because I put a ring on it by declaring I'd become a fan of whatever team drafted Zion. But yes OK that factors in, happy?

Ahem. Anyways... Zion does everything in the game very well except for shooting, at which he is merely kind of OK. He's not even a bad shooter. Just a slightly below average one. He's also stupid young and displayed both true humility and an intense work ethic.

His free throw shooting is weak enough to give me pause. His turnover rate is high enough to raise an eyebrow. But at the end of the day, he's still a great rebounder, very good playmaker, otherworldly finisher, great helpside defender, and fantastic man defender switchable 2-4. What's his non-injury floor? A Super Carmelo/Blake hybrid that never hits better than 33% from range but actually plays defense? That's still an incredible player who can anchor a perennial contender.

I think people overlook the stuff beyond the physical with him - his BBIQ is as high as anyone I've ever seen at that age. Remember he played with a ball-dominant forward in RJ. If he gets full reign in the NBA like RJ did at Duke, we'll see a point forward version of Zion that might be as good as Lebron - that doesn't need the ego massaging that Lebron has. And Lebron's jumper was worse than Zion's at the same age. I thought I'd never see a prospect better than Anthony Davis, but I'd rate Zion slightly ahead.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1410 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:46 pm

dble post
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1411 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:46 pm

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Great numbers, doesn’t pass the eye test at all for me. I could barely get through the highlight reel. Weird athlete

So many of the wizards board wanted us to draft him and a few others.



I want to feel like the Wizards have vision now with Grunfeld gone; I like the picks of Hachimura and Schofield, but I'm not feeling too good about the Justin Robinson signing.

Justin Robinson isn't much of a defender and I'm not sure he has the temperament that falls in line with the change of culture, that some of the other character guys on the team assists in ushering in.

He's good for pushing the pace, but I'm not sure he's really great at anything after that...not the best the Wizards' could've brought in, IMO.

Lastly, not feeling the overwhelming focus being placed on improving the offense.

Wait and see, I guess.

Well Robinson wasn't even drafted - not sure there's much expectation for him other than to challenge for the backup point guard spot. Granted he's got some guaranteed money on his contract, but I assume it's at about the rookie minimum. One thing he does have going for him - he makes some spectacular passes. He's certainly got good college experience starting all 4 years for VaTech, he made over 41% of his 3's last season with high volume, he's got a fairly strong build for a PG and doesn't seem to be afraid of contact.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1412 » by Illuminaire » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:10 pm

Ruzious wrote:I think people overlook the stuff beyond the physical with him - his BBIQ is as high as anyone I've ever seen at that age. Remember he played with a ball-dominant forward in RJ. If he gets full reign in the NBA like RJ did at Duke, we'll see a point forward version of Zion that might be as good as Lebron - that doesn't need the ego massaging that Lebron has. And Lebron's jumper was worse than Zion's at the same age. I thought I'd never see a prospect better than Anthony Davis, but I'd rate Zion slightly ahead.


Amen to that. I hesitate to say he has a passing gift at the level of Lebron, but he absolutely has rare ability as a playmaker. I can't wait to see what he does with better spacing and teammates.

I watched a lot of Duke games this year and the way RJ insisted on taking over killed me. When Zion took the reigns, I swear he either made a bucket or got someone a wide open shot 80% of the time. He was staggeringly effective. RJ? So, so many bricks and bad shots.

Zion's BBIQ extends to the defensive side too. He's not a savant like Draymond, but he's rangy and has great instincts.

I just want him to lose 20lbs and keep his knees intact. That's all I ask. :pray:
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1413 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:19 pm

Ruzious wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:So many of the wizards board wanted us to draft him and a few others.



I want to feel like the Wizards have vision now with Grunfeld gone; I like the picks of Hachimura and Schofield, but I'm not feeling too good about the Justin Robinson signing.

Justin Robinson isn't much of a defender and I'm not sure he has the temperament that falls in line with the change of culture, that some of the other character guys on the team assists in ushering in.

He's good for pushing the pace, but I'm not sure he's really great at anything after that...not the best the Wizards' could've brought in, IMO.

Lastly, not feeling the overwhelming focus being placed on improving the offense.

Wait and see, I guess.

Well Robinson wasn't even drafted - not sure there's much expectation for him other than to challenge for the backup point guard spot. Granted he's got some guaranteed money on his contract, but I assume it's at about the rookie minimum. One thing he does have going for him - he makes some spectacular passes. He's certainly got good college experience starting all 4 years for VaTech, he made over 41% of his 3's last season with high volume, he's got a fairly strong build for a PG and doesn't seem to be afraid of contact.


Signing him to a three-year deal, feels like something of a commitment to him; I don't feel like he's just another camp body.

I think defense should have been one of the qualities of any backup PG they brought in, if they were to turn their back on any of the other qualities needed at the position.

I would've preferred to have gone defense, plus scoring ability, in the form of Shamorie Ponds (assuming his steals' numbers aren't misleading).

I'm more intrigued by Armoni Brooks than Justin Robinson: he can shoot the three as well, moves a lot without the ball to get his shot, looks like a pretty good and willing defender, strikes me as having solid character, and has a knack for rebounding, standing at only 6'3".
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1414 » by nate33 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:33 pm

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:Signing him to a three-year deal, feels like something of a commitment to him; I don't feel like he's just another camp body.

We don't yet know the nature of the commitment. The only article I read was that he was signed to a contract "with guarantees".

That might just be something like a vet minimum deal with team options on year 2 and year 3, but $250,000 of year 1 is guaranteed even if he gets cut.

That gives Robinson a rationale to sign this early rather than try out for multiple other teams. Meanwhile, if he pans out, the Wizards lock in the cheapest salary possible for the longest period possible.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1415 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:40 pm

nate33 wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:Signing him to a three-year deal, feels like something of a commitment to him; I don't feel like he's just another camp body.

We don't yet know the nature of the commitment. The only article I read was that he was signed to a contract "with guarantees".

That might just be something like a vet minimum deal with team options on year 2 and year 3, but $250,000 of year 1 is guaranteed even if he gets cut.

That gives Robinson a rationale to sign this early rather than try out for multiple other teams. Meanwhile, if he pans out, the Wizards lock in the cheapest salary possible for the longest period possible.



That would be the easiest 250K one could make, if what you laid out is accurate, and he didn't stick.

I hear you, and it makes sense from a 'locking down services' standpoint, but from a 'shoring up an area of weakness from last season' standpoint, I don't see it as the most impactful signing that the Wizards' could have made; Robinson doesn't look overly-committed to playing great defense, and I thought getting better at defending the perimeter (especially from the bench), was a very, big necessity heading into next season.

At the moment, I'm a little concerned about the philosophy the team will be heading into the season playing under, not having addressed the defense, with proven defenders---veteran or otherwise.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1416 » by Kanyewest » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:44 pm

David Aldridge says Sekou would have been picked if Rui wasn't there at #9.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1417 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:48 pm

With Robinson, who knows? We'll get to see him in SL.

I just wish they'd signed Dedric Lawson. But even in his case, you can point out a zillion reasons why he'll likely fail. I don't think he will, & I think it even less b/c GS went out & inked him about 10 minutes after the draft ended (meaning, I guess, that they had an "if you don't get drafted" deal in place).

Behind Lawson in this kind of player, I had Daquan Jeffries. The Magic signed him.

Obviously, not a lot of these guys work out -- but some do; some work out great for that matter. I only want to sign those, btw. 8-)
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1418 » by payitforward » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:51 pm

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
nate33 wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:Signing him to a three-year deal, feels like something of a commitment to him; I don't feel like he's just another camp body.

We don't yet know the nature of the commitment. The only article I read was that he was signed to a contract "with guarantees".

That might just be something like a vet minimum deal with team options on year 2 and year 3, but $250,000 of year 1 is guaranteed even if he gets cut.

That gives Robinson a rationale to sign this early rather than try out for multiple other teams. Meanwhile, if he pans out, the Wizards lock in the cheapest salary possible for the longest period possible.

...from a 'shoring up an area of weakness from last season' standpoint, I don't see it as the most impactful signing that the Wizards' could have made; Robinson doesn't look overly-committed to playing great defense, and I thought getting better at defending the perimeter (especially from the bench), was a very, big necessity heading into next season....

First comes the draft, then you try to find someone undrafted -- but it doesn't end there!

Did you have your eye on someone undrafted that you think we missed on?
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1419 » by Dat2U » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:07 pm

Kanyewest wrote:David Aldridge says Sekou would have been picked if Rui wasn't there at #9.


This confirms Shep has alot of Ernie in him. Note he focused on two players with best physical traits and perceived upside at a position of need. He wasn't focused on getting the best basketball "player".

It's the motto of drafting raw talent with the idea that you can coach em up.

Problem is spacial awareness, feel is more innate than a learned trait so you tend to waste assets and resources on these types.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1420 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:12 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:David Aldridge says Sekou would have been picked if Rui wasn't there at #9.


This confirms Shep has alot of Ernie in him. Note he focused on two players with best physical traits and perceived upside at a position of need. He wasn't focused on getting the best basketball "player".

It's the motto of drafting raw talent with the idea that you can coach em up.

Problem is spacial awareness, feel is more innate than a learned trait so you tend to waste assets and resources on these types.

It's hard to come to that conclusion when you look at the 10th pick. Reddish was regarded as physically superior to Rui, and the Wiz have a big need for a 3. And Rui's not a great athlete - certainly less so than Sekou. You're looking for something that's just not there.
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