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Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II

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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#41 » by payitforward » Wed May 22, 2019 12:45 pm

...plus, consider my point above: there is always a value to taking the BPA. He's the best trade asset by definition. Or, maybe put it another way: if you're not going to take the BPA you have motivation to trade that pick down a few spots.

Final point -- if you want to have 7 good players, & accepting that we live in an imperfect world, you have to target having 10 good players! You're not going to be right all the time, & you can't risk an injury reducing you to 6 good players either!
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#42 » by Dat2U » Wed May 22, 2019 1:13 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Perhaps this is just a semantic misunderstanding.

During the season there are 11,808 minutes to be played at the 2 forward positions & Center. If you have 3 Forwards & 1 Center, then they must average 2952 minutes. Exactly 1 player in the NBA logged that many minutes -- Bradley Beal (a guard).

Only 9 guys played more than 2500 minutes at Center (actually 3 of them probably played a lot of their minutes at the 4).

Perhaps it is.

I'm not arguing that a team should play a 7-man rotation for an 82-game season. That would be absurd. I'm just saying that, during the playoffs, 95% of the minutes can be carried by just your 7 main guys - the guys whom you are paying big money and you utilized real assets to acquire. The other 6 guys on the active roster can be vet minimum guys, BAE guys and role players found in the 2nd round.

Those 7 main guys should be 3 guards, 3 forwards and 1 center. Like you said, a backup guard and a backup forward have two positions to cover, so they're more needed. Furthermore, teams often play without a real center for stretches, but they almost never play with 2 centers side-by-side, so that further diminishes the need for a backup center and increases the demand for depth at forward and guard.

With that in mind, and given that we (hopefully) have our center already in place, I would not prioritize another center. Obviously, there are caveats. If the best player on our board is a center, I would consider it, particularly if I believed he was much better than prospects at other positions.


You have to build with two teams in mind. One the can win in the regular season and one that can win in the playoffs.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#43 » by Illmatic12 » Wed May 22, 2019 2:12 pm

payitforward wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Chris Miller was at the combine and said Washington were canvassing teams to buy into the second round - specifically keying in on Philadelphia who owns #33 and #34

Great to hear that -- & since it had to be Tommy Sheppard spearheading the effort, it's also another reason to feel optimistic should he wind up at the head of the FO.

Honestly I would have no problem with Sheppard, on my ledger he’s done everything right since he took over. The only objection would come from the subset of the fan base who choose to be ignorant and associate him only as Grunfeld 2.0.


Now we wonder, are the names to watch early in the 2nd round?

Samanic is apparently moving up to a 1st rd grade so not sure we will have a shot. Ive heard a lot about the kid Lecque, supposed to be a freakish athlete (43” vertical) with upside at PG:



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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#44 » by 80sballboy » Wed May 22, 2019 3:27 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Chris Miller was at the combine and said Washington were canvassing teams to buy into the second round - specifically keying in on Philadelphia who owns #33 and #34

Great to hear that -- & since it had to be Tommy Sheppard spearheading the effort, it's also another reason to feel optimistic should he wind up at the head of the FO.

Honestly I would have no problem with Sheppard, on my ledger he’s done everything right since he took over. The only objection would come from the subset of the fan base who choose to be ignorant and associate him only as Grunfeld 2.0.


Now we wonder, are the names to watch early in the 2nd round?

Samanic is apparently moving up to a 1st rd grade so not sure we will have a shot. Ive heard a lot about the kid Lecque, supposed to be a freakish athlete (43” vertical) with upside at PG:



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Is it really ignorant to feel that it's important to gut the organization? At this point, there aren't many quality candidates but why use that word? I don't think he's Grunfeld 2.0, however....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/05/06/first-priority-wizards-new-gm-establishing-culture-accountability/?utm_term=.05bbfaaa00bf

If you want to say that Sheppard had nothing to do with the previous culture? Fine. Stick your head in the sand.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#45 » by JWizmentality » Wed May 22, 2019 4:04 pm

I'm sold on Hachimura.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#46 » by Illmatic12 » Wed May 22, 2019 4:14 pm

Brandon Clarke's supposed "new and improved" jumper.. yeah this is ugly man
He shoots like Shawn Marion so theoretically it could work I guess, but I'm not confident that his shot won't be blocked regularly

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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#47 » by pcbothwel » Wed May 22, 2019 4:29 pm

JWizmentality wrote:I'm sold on Hachimura.


He seems like Derrick Williams 2.0. Derek was actually slightly bigger, younger, and more athletic. Like Williams, I see a guy who likes, but doesnt love the game or have "Natural" Feel for the game.
I also see a guy who "Seems" like a good athlete, but really isnt in the context of basketball.
I.E. Poor lateral quickness, 2 foot jumper, non-coordinated/clunky.

I dont like the rebounding, vision, feel, clunky athleticism, or overall IQ (especially defensively)
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#48 » by pcbothwel » Wed May 22, 2019 4:41 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:Brandon Clarke's supposed "new and improved" jumper.. yeah this is ugly man
He shoots like Shawn Marion so theoretically it could work I guess, but I'm not confident that his shot won't be blocked regularly


Yeah... Assuming Garland is gone, I wouldn't hesitate to trade down. Im looking at the players available in the 15-25 range and I see some real goldmines. Goga, Windler, Bol, Šamanić, PJ Washington, Herro, Little... I'd move 9 to Boston for 14 & 20, and then possibly trade 14 to either Brooklyn or SA for their 2 picks.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#49 » by nate33 » Wed May 22, 2019 6:48 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Brandon Clarke's supposed "new and improved" jumper.. yeah this is ugly man
He shoots like Shawn Marion so theoretically it could work I guess, but I'm not confident that his shot won't be blocked regularly


Yeah... Assuming Garland is gone, I wouldn't hesitate to trade down. Im looking at the players available in the 15-25 range and I see some real goldmines. Goga, Windler, Bol, Šamanić, PJ Washington, Herro, Little... I'd move 9 to Boston for 14 & 20, and then possibly trade 14 to either Brooklyn or SA for their 2 picks.

I'd take Clarke in the teens, but I no longer want him at #9.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#50 » by 80sballboy » Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:I'm sold on Hachimura.


He seems like Derrick Williams 2.0. Derek was actually slightly bigger, younger, and more athletic. Like Williams, I see a guy who likes, but doesnt love the game or have "Natural" Feel for the game.
I also see a guy who "Seems" like a good athlete, but really isnt in the context of basketball.
I.E. Poor lateral quickness, 2 foot jumper, non-coordinated/clunky.

I dont like the rebounding, vision, feel, clunky athleticism, or overall IQ (especially defensively)


A bit of a tweener who lacks rebounding and defensive ability. Just what we need.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2019-nba-draft-prospect-profile-rui-hachimura
"Some have compared him to Jabari Parker". Yay! :noway:
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#51 » by pcbothwel » Wed May 22, 2019 7:37 pm

80sballboy wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:I'm sold on Hachimura.


He seems like Derrick Williams 2.0. Derek was actually slightly bigger, younger, and more athletic. Like Williams, I see a guy who likes, but doesnt love the game or have "Natural" Feel for the game.
I also see a guy who "Seems" like a good athlete, but really isnt in the context of basketball.
I.E. Poor lateral quickness, 2 foot jumper, non-coordinated/clunky.

I dont like the rebounding, vision, feel, clunky athleticism, or overall IQ (especially defensively)


A bit of a tweener who lacks rebounding and defensive ability. Just what we need.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2019-nba-draft-prospect-profile-rui-hachimura
"Some have compared him to Jabari Parker". Yay! :noway:


Hachimura isnt near the prospect Parker was. Both are similar size and poor laterally, but Parker is smoother and more explosive as an athlete. Rui appears to have a better work ethic and a jump shot, but im just not that impressed.

That said, he has a high floor and could be a Jamison type player...so I would take him in the early 20's, but NO WAY in the top 10
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#52 » by doclinkin » Wed May 22, 2019 7:50 pm

payitforward wrote:Seems to me there are two ways to look at the draft and building an NBA roster.

The first is that a team is like a salad -- you need some of this & some of that. If you need lettuce, draft lettuce. From this point of view, if you need radishes or bell pepper, draft a radish or a bell pepper. It's easy to understand why one would look at it this way, since yeah you do need guys at all 5 positions.

The second way is to view a team as a bank account -- grow it as fast as you can & as large as you can. In this case, just draft the very best players you can find, the most valuable assets. The more $$ you have in your account, the easier it is to buy whatever you need for your salad.

Because NBA trades usually move a guy at one position for a guy at a different position, I am 100% behind the second way of viewing a roster. Of course there will be occasions when you have good reason to do something different, but overall I think this is by far the best way to proceed -- & all the more so when you are as depleted of talent as we are right now.



Agreed in principle though with one caveat. If you load up on talent at a single position you can decrease the trade value of either or both prospects. Overall teams value raw scoring as the stat that determines the price of a player, both in dollars and in perceived value in trade. So two players sharing one spot may depress the box score stats of one player and provide a perception that you 'have' to trade one or the other. Therefore teams offer less in trade. Quarterback controversies at PG or C seem to be the positions where this happens especially since there has traditionally been a perception that you can't play two of them at the same time.

(The Larry Hughes/Gilbert attack coinciding with the no-hand-check rules issued in a new era where combo guards commonly share the floor with each other. Provided one or both can shoot. BUt Twin Towers line-ups are rare and not terribly successful. If you discount San Antonio who has always had highly skilled bigs going way back).

So the value of that asset may depreciate slightly if you select a BPA in a position where there is already competition for minutes.

Still, as you suggest, we suck enough and have so many needs and have suffered significantly from lack of depth such that here it really can't be a significant factor. We need talent. We need warm bodies. We need hope. Anything is good. We'll take it.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#53 » by Rafael122 » Wed May 22, 2019 8:10 pm

80sballboy wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:I'm sold on Hachimura.


He seems like Derrick Williams 2.0. Derek was actually slightly bigger, younger, and more athletic. Like Williams, I see a guy who likes, but doesnt love the game or have "Natural" Feel for the game.
I also see a guy who "Seems" like a good athlete, but really isnt in the context of basketball.
I.E. Poor lateral quickness, 2 foot jumper, non-coordinated/clunky.

I dont like the rebounding, vision, feel, clunky athleticism, or overall IQ (especially defensively)


A bit of a tweener who lacks rebounding and defensive ability. Just what we need.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2019-nba-draft-prospect-profile-rui-hachimura
"Some have compared him to Jabari Parker". Yay! :noway:


This article is a joke. It sounds like their editor asked the writer to look up some mock drafts, find the 5-10 prospects that might be a target at the Wizards pick, cut and paste pros/cons of said player from other sites and write an article.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#54 » by Ruzious » Wed May 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:Brandon Clarke's supposed "new and improved" jumper.. yeah this is ugly man
He shoots like Shawn Marion so theoretically it could work I guess, but I'm not confident that his shot won't be blocked regularly

Read on Twitter

Notice in the first video, his form got better as the video went on. His first few shots (misses) were so awful - he shot them off a very low very slow release. As he spead things up and released higher, his shots went in. So, watch till the end - the beginning was horrible, but by the end, it looked like there was hope. The second video - terrible throughout. He didn't even keep his pivot foot down. His catch and shoot is more like catch and shi...vers.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#55 » by Illmatic12 » Wed May 22, 2019 8:25 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:Brandon Clarke's supposed "new and improved" jumper.. yeah this is ugly man
He shoots like Shawn Marion so theoretically it could work I guess, but I'm not confident that his shot won't be blocked regularly

Read on Twitter

Notice his form got better as the video went on. His first few shots (misses) were so awful - he shot them off a very low very slow release. As he spead things up and released higher, his shots went in. So, watch till the end - the beginning was horrible, but by the end, it looked like there was hope.

Then that's a dead giveaway that he's not an in-game shooter.. in live action when he's fatigued, with a defender closing out on him, his body would revert to the poor shooting form we saw at the beginning. Not only that, his shot has a low release and once he gets blocked the first time it will stick in his mind and cause him to second-guess himself. In fact that's probably why he didn't shoot threes in college.

Clarke also shot below 70% from the FT line which isn't encouraging either. He's outside the top 12 on my board.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#56 » by Ruzious » Wed May 22, 2019 8:41 pm

Rui might also have an awful time making 3's. His jump shot looks too flat - I think he needs to develop some arc on it. The only player I recall that shot 3's well without much of an arc was Rashard Lewis. I think both Clarke and Rui will need to play with centers that can hit 3's.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#57 » by 80sballboy » Wed May 22, 2019 8:51 pm

Ruzious wrote:Rui might also have an awful time making 3's. His jump shot looks too flat - I think he needs to develop some arc on it. The only player I recall that shot 3's well without much of an arc was Rashard Lewis. I think both Clarke and Rui will need to play with centers that can hit 3's.


If you trade down to get Clarke, you are drafting him for defense and rebounding. Not for his anti-Ray Allen-like release. Every player we pick at nine or if we trade down has some major deficiency whether it's size, durability, lack of shot, lack of defense, lack of length, etc. I'm already sick of it and we have nearly a month to go before the draft. The Euros like Doumbouya and Luka Samanic are starting to intrigue me more at No. 9. Jaxson Hayes as well.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#58 » by Ruzious » Wed May 22, 2019 9:08 pm

80sballboy wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Rui might also have an awful time making 3's. His jump shot looks too flat - I think he needs to develop some arc on it. The only player I recall that shot 3's well without much of an arc was Rashard Lewis. I think both Clarke and Rui will need to play with centers that can hit 3's.


If you trade down to get Clarke, you are drafting him for defense and rebounding. Not for his anti-Ray Allen-like release. Every player we pick at nine or if we trade down has some major deficiency whether it's size, durability, lack of shot, lack of defense, lack of length, etc. I'm already sick of it and we have nearly a month to go before the draft. The Euros like Doumbouya and Luka Samanic are starting to intrigue me more at No. 9. Jaxson Hayes as well.

I'm thinking the ability to D up is the most important thing - and length is key to D. Look at the 2 teams left in the East. Toronto is ridiculously long - particularly at the forwards, and Leonard is really a modern-day Pippen defensively - with a better offensive game. With length being key, if you can find an ultra long moblie 3 point shooter, you have a competitive advantage - which is why Bol is so compelling to me.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#59 » by 80sballboy » Wed May 22, 2019 9:24 pm

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Re: Wizards 2019 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#60 » by 80sballboy » Wed May 22, 2019 9:29 pm

Ruzious wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Rui might also have an awful time making 3's. His jump shot looks too flat - I think he needs to develop some arc on it. The only player I recall that shot 3's well without much of an arc was Rashard Lewis. I think both Clarke and Rui will need to play with centers that can hit 3's.


If you trade down to get Clarke, you are drafting him for defense and rebounding. Not for his anti-Ray Allen-like release. Every player we pick at nine or if we trade down has some major deficiency whether it's size, durability, lack of shot, lack of defense, lack of length, etc. I'm already sick of it and we have nearly a month to go before the draft. The Euros like Doumbouya and Luka Samanic are starting to intrigue me more at No. 9. Jaxson Hayes as well.

I'm thinking the ability to D up is the most important thing - and length is key to D. Look at the 2 teams left in the East. Toronto is ridiculously long - particularly at the forwards, and Leonard is really a modern-day Pippen defensively - with a better offensive game. With length being key, if you can find an ultra long moblie 3 point shooter, you have a competitive advantage - which is why Bol is so compelling to me.


I wouldn't take Clarke at 9, but how about Klay Thompson's length? He's an incredible defender because of good technique and he has a 6-9 reach and is 6-7. I'm not saying length is not important. It is but it's not the end-all-be-all. Some guys are just really good defensively and we need to find them. At 9, I am looking for length but Bol scares me due to his injuries and other factors I'm hearing about him.

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