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Political Roundtable Part XXVI

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1421 » by gtn130 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:05 pm

Pandering to the stupid vote is literally what the GOP has been doing for decades and look where they’re at now. They have power but their political agenda is dog****. Why would anyone want that?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1422 » by Ruzious » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:00 pm

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-repeatedly-pressed-ukraine-president-to-investigate-bidens-son/ar-AAHAEU4?li=BBnb7Kz

We cannot make this stuff up. How can anyone support this pos for anything? We're wrong in saying the Republican Party is for stupid people. What it's primarily going for is pure evil; much more than stupid.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1423 » by dobrojim » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:27 pm

Norm Ornstein has described the current GOP as a personality cult which I believe is dead on correct.
That in and of itself would be a 'bad thing'. It's irredeamable that the personality that they are cultishly
following is DJT. These elected politicians who continue to cover for him should receive the harshest
possible treatment by historians. They are the opposite of patriots.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1424 » by Pointgod » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:36 pm

Ruzious wrote:http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-repeatedly-pressed-ukraine-president-to-investigate-bidens-son/ar-AAHAEU4?li=BBnb7Kz

We cannot make this stuff up. How can anyone support this pos for anything? We're wrong in saying the Republican Party is for stupid people. What it's primarily going for is pure evil; much more than stupid.


I still need to laugh at daoneandonly’s claim that Trump was the most ethical candidate running in lol. Let’s reminisce about the days when Nate, TGW,STD and others constantly reminded us about Hillary Clinton’s corruption. Oh man I think I need to bring up the old threads just for a laugh.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1425 » by doclinkin » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:06 am

gtn130 wrote:Pandering to the stupid vote is literally what the GOP has been doing for decades and look where they’re at now. They have power but their political agenda is dog****. Why would anyone want that?


Refer to the first half of your second sentence.

I’m not even saying pander to stupid people. Cory Booker is a reasonable candidate. I do think it is smart gamesmanship simply to have an umbrella that is inclusive even of stupid people. They are Americans too. Might as well find the shorthand that helps them vote in their own best interest. Which in most cases frankly is a progressive platform. So OK, maybe the candidate looks presidential and has some hook that gets them to notice. If that includes a celebrity girlfriend and a tall guy who has bona fides both in Congress and as an executive, so much the better. Stacey Abrams is bright and a badass, and I don't think our country is ready for her. Joe Biden is a tall folksy white guy who pretends to be tough. That's all it takes for him to be leading in the polls.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1426 » by Wizardspride » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:26 am

Read on Twitter
?s=19
McCabe explains that Trump believed Putin over US intel about NK missiles: "Intel officials [told Trump his position] was not consistent with any of the intel our govt possesses. To which POTUS replied, 'I don't care. I believe Putin.'"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1427 » by Wizardspride » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:04 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19
McCabe explains that Trump believed Putin over US intel about NK missiles: "Intel officials [told Trump his position] was not consistent with any of the intel our govt possesses. To which POTUS replied, 'I don't care. I believe Putin.'"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1428 » by dobrojim » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:18 pm

I suspect it will inevitably be stonewalled. The GOP is hoping the courts will cover for them or
delay any action to the point it becomes meaningless.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1429 » by Wizardspride » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:27 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19
McCabe explains that Trump believed Putin over US intel about NK missiles: "Intel officials [told Trump his position] was not consistent with any of the intel our govt possesses. To which POTUS replied, 'I don't care. I believe Putin.'"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1430 » by Ruzious » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:14 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19

The irony is Biden was working against corruption in Ukraine - not to mention he was effective at it.

This is **** ridiculous, and it's getting more absurd by the day. We need to **** get **** Trump out of the WH NOW! Every **** God damned thing he does is tainted with corruption.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1431 » by dckingsfan » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:58 pm

And in the meantime, the Iowa Democratic Presidential Caucus (DM Register/CNN) Poll:

Warren 22
Biden 20
Sanders 11
Buttigieg 9
Harris 6
Klobuchar 3
Gabbard 2
Booker 3
Yang 2
Steyer 2
O'Rourke 2
Bullock 1
Castro 1
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1432 » by GREY 1769 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:04 pm

Let's say there's corruption in the DOJ. What checks and balances are there in the US system to root it out? I'm curious because it looks as if more departments are being headed by people willing to look past the rules of their departments, so...
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1433 » by dobrojim » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:09 pm

Congress' only remedy is to sue the executive branch (whatever dept you wanna look at)
and hope the courts side with you (which in most cases, they clearly should).
The scary thing is what would happen if the executive branch, after losing,
refuses to recognize the authority of the courts. We're not there yet but
there are worrying signs. I think it would take a mass scale protest, the likes of
which we have yet to see...protests making say the Woman's march of Jan 2017
look small by comparison, to make them stand down in that situation.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1434 » by Pointgod » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:18 pm

GREY 1769 wrote:Let's say there's corruption in the DOJ. What checks and balances are there in the US system to root it out? I'm curious because it looks as if more departments are being headed by people willing to look past the rules of their departments, so...


I’d assume it would be up to Congress to investigate, expose it and root it out. They have a few tools that they haven’t used for I don’t know what reason. They can hold witnesses that don’t show up in contempt, they have the power to arrest non compliant witnesses and they can go after their money which would be the best way to make sure people testify. They’ve also forgotten that they’re in control of the budget.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1435 » by GREY 1769 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:07 pm

dobrojim wrote:Congress' only remedy is to sue the executive branch (whatever dept you wanna look at)
and hope the courts side with you (which in most cases, they clearly should).
The scary thing is what would happen if the executive branch, after losing,
refuses to recognize the authority of the courts. We're not there yet but
there are worrying signs. I think it would take a mass scale protest, the likes of
which we have yet to see...protests making say the Woman's march of Jan 2017
look small by comparison, to make them stand down in that situation.

Pointgod wrote:
Spoiler:
GREY 1769 wrote:Let's say there's corruption in the DOJ. What checks and balances are there in the US system to root it out? I'm curious because it looks as if more departments are being headed by people willing to look past the rules of their departments, so...


I’d assume it would be up to Congress to investigate, expose it and root it out. They have a few tools that they haven’t used for I don’t know what reason. They can hold witnesses that don’t show up in contempt, they have the power to arrest non compliant witnesses and they can go after their money which would be the best way to make sure people testify. They’ve also forgotten that they’re in control of the budget.

Thanks to you both. It's tricky about Congress now though, right, since one chamber can keep stymieing the other? Then there's potential pardons for those who don't comply. Are there any checks and balances for pardons being given that have a pattern of compliance to silence which potentially help the pardoner?

And going through the court system can take time, may not be recognized, all the while being filled with judges that one party favours far more (I know judges are supposed to be impartial).
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1436 » by popper » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:48 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:Congress' only remedy is to sue the executive branch (whatever dept you wanna look at)
and hope the courts side with you (which in most cases, they clearly should).
The scary thing is what would happen if the executive branch, after losing,
refuses to recognize the authority of the courts. We're not there yet but
there are worrying signs. I think it would take a mass scale protest, the likes of
which we have yet to see...protests making say the Woman's march of Jan 2017
look small by comparison, to make them stand down in that situation.

Pointgod wrote:
Spoiler:
GREY 1769 wrote:Let's say there's corruption in the DOJ. What checks and balances are there in the US system to root it out? I'm curious because it looks as if more departments are being headed by people willing to look past the rules of their departments, so...


I’d assume it would be up to Congress to investigate, expose it and root it out. They have a few tools that they haven’t used for I don’t know what reason. They can hold witnesses that don’t show up in contempt, they have the power to arrest non compliant witnesses and they can go after their money which would be the best way to make sure people testify. They’ve also forgotten that they’re in control of the budget.

Thanks to you both. It's tricky about Congress now though, right, since one chamber can keep stymieing the other? Then there's potential pardons for those who don't comply. Are there any checks and balances for pardons being given that have a pattern of compliance to silence which potentially help the pardoner?

And going through the court system can take time, may not be recognized, all the while being filled with judges that one party favours far more (I know judges are supposed to be impartial).


Yes. How astute you are. There is that problematic opposition. If only we could silence it. Look to China and Russia to learn how.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1437 » by GREY 1769 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:56 am

popper wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:Congress' only remedy is to sue the executive branch (whatever dept you wanna look at)
and hope the courts side with you (which in most cases, they clearly should).
The scary thing is what would happen if the executive branch, after losing,
refuses to recognize the authority of the courts. We're not there yet but
there are worrying signs. I think it would take a mass scale protest, the likes of
which we have yet to see...protests making say the Woman's march of Jan 2017
look small by comparison, to make them stand down in that situation.

Pointgod wrote:
Spoiler:


I’d assume it would be up to Congress to investigate, expose it and root it out. They have a few tools that they haven’t used for I don’t know what reason. They can hold witnesses that don’t show up in contempt, they have the power to arrest non compliant witnesses and they can go after their money which would be the best way to make sure people testify. They’ve also forgotten that they’re in control of the budget.

Thanks to you both. It's tricky about Congress now though, right, since one chamber can keep stymieing the other? Then there's potential pardons for those who don't comply. Are there any checks and balances for pardons being given that have a pattern of compliance to silence which potentially help the pardoner?

And going through the court system can take time, may not be recognized, all the while being filled with judges that one party favours far more (I know judges are supposed to be impartial).


Yes. How astute you are. There is that problematic opposition. If only we could silence it. Look to China and Russia to learn how.

I see this is the useless sarcasm portion of the discussion. Thanks for popping by.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1438 » by popper » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:39 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
popper wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
Thanks to you both. It's tricky about Congress now though, right, since one chamber can keep stymieing the other? Then there's potential pardons for those who don't comply. Are there any checks and balances for pardons being given that have a pattern of compliance to silence which potentially help the pardoner?

And going through the court system can take time, may not be recognized, all the while being filled with judges that one party favours far more (I know judges are supposed to be impartial).


Yes. How astute you are. There is that problematic opposition. If only we could silence it. Look to China and Russia to learn how.

I see this is the useless sarcasm portion of the discussion. Thanks for popping by.


Useless? The answer to your original question is that the minority party can request an IG investigation on any matter they deem appropriate. Our constitutional republic is effective (somewhat) in empowering the minority to hold the majority party accountable. Since most current IG’s were appointed by Obama you should rest assured that justice will be served.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1439 » by GREY 1769 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:48 am

popper wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:
popper wrote:
Yes. How astute you are. There is that problematic opposition. If only we could silence it. Look to China and Russia to learn how.

I see this is the useless sarcasm portion of the discussion. Thanks for popping by.


Useless? The answer to your original question is that the minority party can request an IG investigation on any matter they deem appropriate. Our constitutional republic is effective (somewhat) in empowering the minority to hold the majority party accountable. Since most current IG’s were appointed by Obama you should rest assured that justice will be served.

I was genuinely looking for checks and balances answers and have no interest in partisan interjections.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#1440 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:44 am

GREY 1769 wrote:
popper wrote:Our constitutional republic is effective (somewhat) in empowering the minority to hold the majority party accountable. Since most current IG’s were appointed by Obama you should rest assured that justice will be served.



I was genuinely looking for checks and balances answers and have no interest in partisan interjections.




Bingo. Many OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS WERE STEADFASTLY AGAINST POLITICAL PARTIES. Congress wasn't meant to be a check on a majority party, but instead a check on the powers of the executive branch and judiciary.

Spoiler:
The Founding Fathers Feared Political Factions Would Tear the Nation Apart

The Constitution's framers viewed political parties as a necessary evil.

The framers of the new Constitution desperately wanted to avoid the divisions that had ripped England apart in the bloody civil wars of the 17th century. Many of them saw parties—or “factions,” as they called them—as corrupt relics of the monarchical British system that they wanted to discard in favor of a truly democratic government.

“It was not that they didn’t think of parties,” says Willard Sterne Randall, professor emeritus of history at Champlain College and biographer of six of the Founding Fathers. “Just the idea of a party brought back bitter memories to some of them.”

Alexander Hamilton once called political parties “the most fatal disease” of popular governments.

When Washington stepped aside as president in 1796, he memorably warned in his farewell address of the divisive influence of factions on the workings of democracy: “The common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.”

“He had stayed on for a second term only to keep these two parties from warring with each other,” Randall says of Washington. “He was afraid of what he called ‘disunion.’ That if the parties flourished, and they kept fighting each other, that the Union would break up.
History.com



Bringing partisan politics to a debate on the efficacy of the constitution is truly...deplorable. :wink:

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